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Neil 04 May 2016, 02:46

Thanks Maxim,

I am 40, so definitely presbyopia is kicking in.

The removal of 3 base out prism in each eye seems strange. When trying the multifocal contact lens (I believe that's called mono vision), I couldn't give it a fair try because the lack of prism meant that I got a headache.

I think maybe a second opinion is worth it. I get that the optician is trying to free me from the need for glasses, but I think I'd rather have the comfort of easy vision, without headaches!

Maxim 03 May 2016, 14:36

to Neil:

For distance vision, you say, you're wearing them permanently. I should say, you might (might ...!) not need them, if you wrére less than 30 yrs. old - but surely (I see this from the reading ADD) you are mid-thirty. So it*s fine, that you use them permanently.

For near vision (especially for fine print) I feel, that there is no way, reading or doing near work without glasses. Your nearest focus point is now further away than your arms' length!

Also my best wishes to you!

Maxim 03 May 2016, 14:28

to Sally:

I think, you have crossed now the border, where you don't want to go without now (for every out door activity as shopping, driving etc.). Only at home in your four walls, where you know everything, you will not need them, but already looking at the tele you will see the difference!

My best wishes!

Soundmanpt 03 May 2016, 08:17


I think what they were looking for was sharpness and not really brightness. In other words which lens option made your eyesight crisp and sharp. Brightness is a part of it but not not as important. Considering it has been at least 3 years since you last had your eyes checked your eyes really didn't change all that much even though your glasses are now twice as strong as your first ones. As you stated your first glasses were probably more helpful to you with driving at night but could have been wore for other things that you needed or wanted clear vision for such as sporting events and concerts where you were sitting a good distance away. Now i'm sure you wouldn't pass the DMV's vision test for driving without your glasses. So that is the major difference for you is that now you really do need to start wearing your glasses for driving day or night. Otherwise it is up to you when you might want to wear your glasses. If you like how you look wearing your glasses and always want to see things clearly then you might want to wear your glasses full time. The best way to decide is to try wearing your glasses full time for a week to see how you feel about continuing to wear them full time. It's not in any way going to do any harm to your eyes to wear your glasses full time. It will not in anyway cause your eyes to worsen. You didn't say if you already have your new glasses or not? How do you feel about wearing glasses has a lot to do with it.

neil 03 May 2016, 06:01

Just had a test. I came out with a prescription weaker than before and no prism (it had been 6 dioptres).

I tried a concentric contact lens in one eye, which was very strange indeed... not sure I could get on with it, but 30 mins isn't long to make a decision.

My old prescription was:

R: +.75, -.25, 21, +1 ADD

L: +1.25, -.50, 165, + 1 ADD

RPrism: 3.00 Out

LPrism: 3.00 Out.

Today's prescription was:

R: +.50, -.25, 45, +1.50 ADD

L: +.75, -.50, 165, + 1.50 ADD

RPrism: n/a

LPrism: n/a

I wear my glasses full time and not wearing them for 30 mins while trying the contact lens gave me a headache.

Do you think I should push on the prism? I did tell the optician, but she felt I could do without.

Sally 03 May 2016, 02:47

I had a pair of weak distance glasses that I usually only used for night driving. They were only -.50 and I lost them. So before replacing them (after 3 years) I decided to get an exam to find out if there was any change. It was interesting during the exam to see all the changes in lenses and telling which was better. I had no idea what effect my answers had. When she was done, she let me look through both eyes and asked which was better, 1 or 2. I told her I could see the letters better on the one with the brighter background, although I could see all the letters either way. She responded "I thought so". She wrote a new prescription for -1.00. What does the brightness of the background have to to with determining a prescription? Will I have to or want to wear these all the time?

Cactus Jack 01 May 2016, 08:45


I was wondering how your children are getting along with their glasses.

I am particularly interested in how Trenton is doing. I suspect his vision without correction is so poor that it may affect his development. However, you caught the problem early enough that he can probably catch up pretty quickly. Is he trying to walk and talk yet?


Michael 29 Apr 2016, 09:51

Soundmanpt- I think you are right. As they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Chris beats to her own drum for sure. She has been told by an eye care professional what she should do but still isn't doing it. But I don't ride with her very often thank goodness.I am independent and have my own car. And if we go out together most of the time we take my car and I drive. I don't have an optical restriction on my license either but I wouldn't think of driving without wearing glasses whether or not I could pass a DMV vision screening if CT had one.

But she has nerve criticizing my driving always saying I drive too slow. But one thing I will not do is drive on the highway.If it is a place where you need to go on the highway I won't drive there.Most of my driving is local. The only time I will generally ride with her is if we go a place I don't want to drive to. And that doesn't happen very often. And I know I told you about when she brought me to the hospital two years ago when I was having surgery. The hospital was no more than 10 minutes from where we live and she had gone there many times yet found a way to get lost because she can't see. It was very early in the morning and was still dark out. I really wasn't paying attention and then when I saw where she was I said to Chris where you are going so then I had to tell her how to get to the hospital from where we were. And she drove my car. It might have been easier for me to drive my car to the hospital and then she could drive home when it was light out and actually might be able to see more than when it was dark.

And Chris told me she loves driving on the highway which makes no sense considering her vision. So I guess she is just the opposite of me.Chris is either stubborn or stupid and probably both. I don't like calling my best friend stupid but she really is about this. I want to help her but she clearly doesn't want my help or advice or anybody else's either.

Soundmanpt 29 Apr 2016, 09:03


Sorry to have to tell you but your fighting a battle your not going to win. You can't help those that don't want to be helped and she is clearly one that doesn't want to be helped. You have given way too much time worrying about her and there comes a time when you simply say "Screw it" you are well past that point with her. Time to stop worrying about her and just go about with your own life. I would only suggest that if you don't want to die you might not want to to a passenger when she is driving. You know you have the option to simply tell her that if she doesn't start wearing her glasses, her prescription glasses, you don't care to ride with her anymore. If she is really your friend she should at least honor your request and and wear her glasses if she wants you in the car beside her.

Michael 28 Apr 2016, 23:04

An update on Chris. She did not go get her glasses adjusted yesterday like she was supposed to. Now I wonder if there is even a problem with her glasses being tight behind her ear. It may be an excuse to not wear her glasses. And yesterday afternoon it was cloudy here in CT and Chris was wearing her sunglasses to drive home. I know because when she got home the sunglasses were on top of her head. Maybe somebody here can educate me but why would anybody wear sunglasses on a cloudy day? And it was completely cloudy so there was no glare. Honestly I don't get it. Wouldn't the sunglasses make her poor vision even worse when wearing them to drive on a cloudy day?

And if she isn't planning to wear her glasses much why invest 250.00 in new glasses that cost over 800.00? And she had to borrow money from her 401 K to pay for her glasses. If I was her I might not have even gone for an eye exam and just stuck with the over the counter readers she had been using or if I got glasses I would have just gotten what her insurance paid for.The one thing Chris has been good about is she is keeping her glasses in the case which is a first for her. But they would do her much more good if she kept them on her face instead.

Michael 26 Apr 2016, 17:19

Soundmanpt-I have been doing a lot of research on contact lenses and read something else I didn't know. Contact lenses and smoking do not mix. And Chris is a smoker. Since Chris is a smoker that is another strike against her. She has probably six strikes against her as far as getting contacts. Dry eyes, sensitive eyes, needing multi focal lenses, being a smoker and also the cost. I am sure it would cost her more money out of pocket to get contact lenses than it did for glasses. And she doesn't make a lot of money. That is one of the reasons we share an apartment as neither of us could afford one alone. I am on a fixed income being on SSDI. And even though Chris works full time she doesn't make much more than minimum salary. I don't think she could afford contacts. As it was she had to borrow money from her 401 K to pay for her glasses.And I also believe she would have difficulty putting contacts in and taking them out. I read everyplace it is easy but the words easy and Chris can never be in the same sentence. Trust me I know. I have known this woman for nine years and lived with her for over five. I can't tell you how often she asks me to fix something particularly stuff with electronic devices. She would constantly mute her MP3 player and ask me to fix it. And no matter how many times I showed her what to do it didn't register in her brain. And if she ever got contacts I couldn't help her like I can with other things because of my hands. So she would completely be on her own. I am thinking the next time she messes up the TV or the TV remote I should maybe leave it up to her to fix it.

Do you think it is an exaggeration when I read that almost anybody can be fitted for contacts no matter what the person's eye problem or eye problems are? Now with contacts being made of so many different materials people with either dry or sensitive eyes are supposed to be able to wear them. But I am not so sure about that. What do you think will happen if she tells her doctor next year she wants contacts? Might he try to discourage her? Or will he try to find contacts that will work for her?If Chris can figure out how to put them in and take them out and that is a huge assumption I don't think she could tolerate wearing them for very long. And there is no doubt in my mind she would try the on and off thing with her contacts like she does with her glasses. And when she is not wearing her contacts she will then try to go bare eyed. She thinks she will be able to ditch her glasses for good. If Chris can't tolerate a dilated eye exam which she can't how will she tolerate contact lenses? She complains that her vision is blurry after they put the drops in but her vision may already be pretty blurry without the drops so that is her problem. I know when I go for my eye exam when it is a sunny day I make sure I ask for the shades to put on my glasses so I can drive. And last year on my way home I stopped at Burger King since it is on the way and walked in wearing the shades and since the workers know me because I go there all the time I let them know why I was wearing shades.But I have to admit it felt kind of spooky walking in there wearing shades. Like it was night with the lights dimmed. And without fail it is always a bright sunny day when I go to the eye doctor.So I can give you the weather forecast right now for CT on August 19.

And Chris did not make it to the eye doctor today. She wasn't feeling well so didn't go to work. And they are closed tomorrow so she will go Thursday after work. She seems to be having problems going to get the glasses adjusted. That is why she should have gone yesterday like she had planned because it was her day off. I can understand her not wanting to wear her glasses much if they hurt behind her ear. But will she wear them once they get adjusted? I hope the doctor says something to her again about driving home wearing her glasses. Last time she told me she couldn't even figure out how to get out of the parking lot. If she was wearing her glasses that might have helped don't you think? I see no reason why she can't safely drive home wearing her glasses especially if it is a cloudy day.And even if the sun is out she should still be able to manage. I never drive wearing sunglasses. So that is why whenever I go the eye doctor especially if it is a sunny day I will ask for the shades to put over my glasses.

Chris seems to be sending a lot of mixed signals. She is telling people she can't see and needs to wear glasses full time yet hasn't done so yet. I hope she isn't saying the glasses are too tight as a smoke screen to avoid wearing them. But if they are really tight I can see why it would be hard for her to wear them for any length of time. Wearing the glasses driving home would be a good start and then when she gets home just keep them on. No need to take them off. And she told me when she got the glasses and the doctor had her read a paragraph and also some letters in the distance how clear everything was. So I am sure they got her prescription right. I want to give Chris the benefit of the doubt and say she will wear the glasses after they get adjusted but I don't know. And she has already told people she got new glasses which she is supposed to wear full time So shouldn't that avoid a lot of questions? Most people who write here don't want to say anything at all to their family or friends about getting glasses. But Chris has already told a bunch of people. Why would anybody want to live in blur when glasses can help them see clearly? I hope her problem now is the glasses are not comfortable but I can't ever figure Chris out.

But Chris wearing contacts would be a disaster. I would bet every dollar I have it wouldn't work out.Besides all the other issues I brought up I don't think she would take proper care of them. Chris doesn't like to do things that take either time or effort. And to save money I bet she would try to use disposable contacts if those were the ones prescribed a few days in a row instead of disposing of them. I might have a better chance of playing baseball for the Yankees than Chris being able to wear contacts. And trust me. I don't think I will be playing baseball for the Yankees anytime soon.At least not in this lifetime.

One more question about Chris' vision. My guess is her distance vision will probably not change much if at all unless she develops other eye problems like cataracts or glaucoma. Do you agree? But she may at some point need a slightly more powerful add. Right now she is at +2.00 so I can see her getting to +2.50.I am at +2.50 but I am 62 soon to be 63. Chris is 54 and I think her add is in line with her age. And Cactus Jack has written many times most people can get by with a 2.50 add once all the elasticity in their eyes is gone and never more than +3.00 and that is because they hold their reading material closer than the average person does.Do you agree with my assessment?

Michael 25 Apr 2016, 23:28

Likelenses-You know what would be funny. If Chris and I went out to dinner and she took out both her contacts and dentures and after we were done eating went to the car and then she realized she left both of them in the restaurant and then went back in to get them and found they were gone. Thrown in the garbage when they cleared the table.I might not be able to stop laughing even though Chris wouldn't think it was very funny. You know who Chris reminds me of. A Lucille Ball type character. Back on her old TV shows she got herself into some situations you wouldn't think could ever happen in real life. But my Chris is capable of doing some of the things Lucy did on TV. If I ever have time to write the book I will make sure I will arrange for you to get a copy.I couldn't make up this stuff even if I wanted to.

I don't know how much of what Chris does is vision related. I have jokingly referred to her to some of my family as Mrs. Magoo. And you should see how she makes coffee. I have no clue what she does because I am usually sleeping when she gets up in the morning. She has a Mr. Coffee and I get up after she leaves for work and every morning the kitchen counter is a complete mess. There is sugar and coffee both on the kitchen counter. And sometime it gets under the microwave oven. And often I clean it up because leaving it like that might attract some unwelcome guests. Sugar in particular is hard to clean up being so sticky. And one day last week I had to take the microwave oven off the counter so I could clean the mess under the microwave. A combo of sugar and coffee. I wonder what her problem is.Can't she see what she is doing? Nobody can be that careless. Whoever taught her how to make coffee didn't do a very good job. And all she has is maybe one or two cups of coffee in the morning. Even with my bad hands and not wearing my glasses I know I could make coffee better than she does. It would be almost impossible for anybody else to create such a mess making one or two cups of coffee. There may be more coffee and sugar on the counter than she actually drinks.

Chris is also a messy eater. I can be messy too because of the CP but what is her excuse?It may be a combination of not being able to see along with not paying attention to what she is doing. Everything seems so difficult for Chris to do even things that would be simple for most people. It does frustrate me with some of the things she does. I do wonder if she would find things easier to do if she just put on her glasses. Her eye care professional has advised her she needs to wear her glasses full time if she wants to be able to see.She has had her new glasses since last Thursday but has not worn them much because she said they are too tight behind the ear. She is supposed to go get them adjusted after work today and hopefully she will do that. And actually begin wearing them. She will never get used to the progressive lenses unless she actually wears the glasses.

And I can't believe her glasses without insurance would have cost over 800.00. She had to pay about 250.00 out of pocket. I almost flipped out when she told me that. My last glasses which are also progressives cost 285.00 back in 2014. She should have been able to get a very functional pair of glasses for much less than 800.00 even if she didn't order them online which is always an option. Her glasses cost way more than twice as much as mine did. Unbelievable. And mine are fine and meet my needs. I wasn't there with her when she went for the eye exam but do wonder what made her buy such an expensive pair of glasses. And not sure she will even wear them much. I don't think I will ever figure out how Chris' mind works. She does a lot of things that honestly don't make any sense at all to me. And she borrowed money from her 401 K so that is why she had the 250.00 to pay for her glasses.

Likelenses 25 Apr 2016, 21:11


In one of your recent posts you mentioned that Chris may think that being a part time denture wearer,may make her think that she can also be a part time contact lense wearer.

I instantly had the visual picture of your story of Chris putting her dentures on the dinner table,and I pictured her also removing her contacts,and placing them on the table next to the dentures.

Again,I almost fell out of my chair laughing!

MIchael 25 Apr 2016, 18:16

Cactus Jack-Thank you so much for your quick reply. I am going to try not to worry about this too much. I will see what happens when I visit my ophthalmologist in August. Hopefully I will never need any treatment and if I do it will be far into the future and by then there will even be more treatment options available than there are now. At what point do they usually recommend treatment? If my ophthalmologist ever suggests drops I will let her know about my situation and tell her I don't think I can physically do it.And then see what she says. I did check out Google so that does give some hope that there may be an alternative to the drops. And yes the drops have to be administered correctly for them to work.

My hands are pretty bad but I have found a way to compensate and can do a lot of things but things involving fine dexterity especially are next to impossible. I know I drove my mother crazy as a young kid because it was difficult for her to teach me how to do things like zip a zipper, button a coat and tie my shoes. Even to this day I can't tie my shoes the way most people do. And I can't do things like use a lighter, a manual can opener or thread a needle. And I like my desktop computer. I bought a brand new All In One about a year ago. Occasionally I will use my roommate Chris' laptop mostly when she has a computer issue she wants me to look at but much prefer an external keyboard.I can use the built in keyboard on a laptop but it is more difficult.I also have a Kindle Fire but mostly use apps on it because the touch screen keyboard is more difficult for me to use even though I can do it if I take my time. But generally when I search the Internet I will use my desktop. I can text on my cell phone if I have to but am very slow and only do so to send very short messages. I much prefer e-mail. That is easier for me to do.

But as for eye drops I think it would be very difficult if not impossible for me to do it. When I pick up a glass I have to hold it tightly because my hand shakes. And if I am tense or nervous it is even worse. In school I did have difficulty doing a few things because of the CP. I remember when I took biology in 10th grade and when we had to dissect a frog my partner had to do all the work. I felt bad I couldn't do it. And when I was in junior high I had to take industrial arts and could almost do nothing.Art class was also difficult. And in physical education class I could do some things but not others. But I never was in a special class at school.Some people who have CP are also retarded and I never was retarded even though when I went to school kids used to often tease me and call me a retard. Junior high was the worst as far as the teasing went.But by the time I got to high school it just about stopped and the kids pretty much left me alone.

And I hated typing class in junior high. I couldn't type the right way on a keyboard because of my hands. And even now I am pretty much a one finger typist but I can still type relatively quickly considering. And I am not good with knives trying to cut things. Even cutting a piece of meat is difficult though I can do it.

 25 Apr 2016, 17:42


Cactus Jack 25 Apr 2016, 16:50


I suggest you check out Glaucoma Treatment on Google. Drugs, administered as drops, are not the only treatments for Glaucoma to improve drainage and relieve internal pressures. Drugs are typically the first treatment, but they must be used as prescribed for maximum effectiveness. There is considerable research into treatments for Glaucoma, because so many people have it and you are not the only person to have trouble administering drops. There are some tips on administering drops with shaky hands on the Glaucoma Research Foundation website. If you are unable to administer the drops, there may be an alternative available by the time you actually need it. Maybe there will even be an oral medication by then.


Michael 25 Apr 2016, 15:24

I have been writing a lot about Chris but now I am writing about myself. There is something that is starting to worry me about my vision. My sister lives out of state but I do talk to her about once a month to let her know how things are going. And I let her know about my eyes how I went for my annual exam in February but have to go back in August because my glaucoma readings have been on the higher side.My doctor did the test twice. First time it was OD 22 OS 20. 2nd time OD was 21 and OS was 22. On my report it says glaucoma suspect. Borderline IOP.And my sister told me she has to do drops which makes me very very nervous. My fear is one day they will tell me I have to do drops too and I don't think I can deal with that.I was born with CP and have very poor dexterity in my hands especially things involving fine dexterity. Physically I don't think I can do it. And I don't think Chris can help me with this either. She works all day and is klutzy too plus is very impatient so she would make me very nervous.And I don't have anybody else who could help me. Would there be another possible treatment other than drops? And what would the pressure readings have to be before they would want to do drops? My readings this time were higher than they were in August. Back then it was 16 in each eye. This is starting to worry me a lot especially after what my sister told me. I knew she was being monitored for glaucoma but didn't know she was doing drops.

Michael 25 Apr 2016, 14:40

I have a dumb question. If somebody purchased contact lenses and they didn't work as expected and the person wasn't happy with them what would happen? Would you be out the money you paid for them or might they give you a credit you can use on something else like prescription glasses or prescription sunglasses?

Michael 25 Apr 2016, 14:10

Soundmanpt- Agree with you 100% about the trolls.If you neglect them they will eventually go away. But the cutest comment was the one that no women look good in glasses and Chris should get Lasik. Great but who will pay for it? Maybe that person should offer to pay.

So I was right that the PD for an adult doesn't change and to include both the cylinder and axis numbers if I order prescription sunglasses for Chris. That is what I thought but wanted to confirm it. For me if I ever decided to order glasses online it might be the easiest just to get my PD from the place I bought my glasses instead of trying to measure it myself.

Getting to Chris again I guess I could measure either her regular glasses or non prescription sunglasses. Her sunglasses are really cheap. She either bought them at Wal Mart or a drug store. I doubt they cost even as much as 10 dollars.

Chris said she doesn't want to go out today. It is her day off so she will go after work tomorrow to get her glasses adjusted. I asked her if she needed to make an appointment and she said no. Just have to hope she goes. She did put her glasses on for a short time this morning and she wasn't reading. Which I find interesting. But she took them off after about 10 minutes or so. And she did the same thing yesterday. What do you make of that? She has to realize she sees much better with her glasses than without. Which gives me hope that once her glasses get adjusted she will start wearing them a lot more. Maybe not 100% full time but much more than she has in the past. And the more she wears her glasses the harder it will be for her to get by without wearing them.Which eventually will make driving without them next to impossible. That is what I want to happen and it is much better if she figures it out on her own. If I push her too much to wear her glasses it may have the direct opposite effect and she may almost never wear them. I think she is fighting herself right now. She already has told a bunch of people her eyes are very bad and she is supposed to wear her glasses all day so if she shows up someplace wearing glasses she can avoid answering a lot of questions if the people already know. And before she was in complete denial about her vision and would tell people she only needs glasses to read small print. But her eyes have been bad for a long time at least since we began living together over 5 years ago. I did ask her when she got her first pair of readers and she said when she was about 40. Back then her distance vision was probably fine or at least a lot better than it is now. When I first met Chris at Wal Mart she was 45 and using over the counter readers. Now Chris is 54 years old.

I always have wondered what makes people decide to wear their glasses full time when they were formerly part time wearers. My guess is they realize they see much better with their glasses than without and the more you wear them the harder it becomes to go without them.

Chris did tell me they asked her if she was planning to drive home wearing her glasses after she picked them up last week and she told them no. But she also admitted to me she got messed up getting out of the parking lot. I don't know what she did but she may have tried to exit in the lane you should enter. She isn't that familiar with the place being the first time she went there.

Chris may have never been involved in a serious auto accident but I think she is playing with fire. Not good to be driving when you see as poorly as she does. I wish I knew what her uncorrected vision is in both eyes. She said something about 20/70 but I don't know if that is her good or bad eye. But whatever her vision is not good enough to drive safely without corrective lenses. If her good eye is 20/70 that is very bad. But it does appear her good eye which is her right is slightly weaker now than it was two years ago if you look at her scripts. I don't have her script right in front of me now but her sphere went from +1.00 to +1.50 I believe with her cylinder number being pretty much the same. And I have no idea if she sees better or worse than I do. And I wear my glasses full time. And Cactus Jack told me two years ago it is impossible to compare scripts between two people to try to figure out who sees better. Because a lot of things factor into visual accuity.

There have been several incidents involving Chris and driving over the last several years. I told you about my interesting trip when she drove me to the hospital because I was having surgery. And last year she wanted to treat me to lunch because I did her taxes so she suggested a place close to where she works. She went there before but I didn't. I looked it up to see exactly where it was on the Berlin Turnpike in CT. I asked her if she wanted to drive or if she wanted me to. She said you drive so I said OK. I know where the Berlin Turnpike is because that is where the store she works at is. But I was not that familiar with the part of the Berlin Turnpike where the restaurant was. I knew what side it was on because she told me plus I knew by the address. I then told Chris you look for the restaurant while I drive. But somehow she missed it and I went past it and even told Chris I think I went by it but she told me keep driving. Then I knew we went by it for sure because there was a sign we were in the next town.The Berlin Turnpike is long and goes into three towns. Then I had to figure out how to turn my car around to start heading back where we came from. She then called her boyfriend to ask him exactly where the restaurant was. And by some miracle we found it. But when we got to the restaurant I was a wreck. Chris should have either drove and I would have looked for the restaurant or since I was driving gone to a place I was familiar with. And there was a time many years ago when I went with her to look at an apartment. I did a MapQuest and she drove and got on the right street and I was looking at house numbers and when I found the building I said Chris here it is and pointed but she kept on driving by it. This had to happen about a half dozen times before she figured out where the entrance was. If she was by herself she still might be looking for it because she can't read house numbers without glasses. Chris can make it to work because she knows the route well because she has worked there for 4 years and she goes there 5 days a week. But if she drives either at night or to a place she is unfamiliar with she is going to have problems more often than not. And she doesn't like the way I drive always telling me I drive too slow. Does it make sense that she doesn't like the way I drive yet wanted me to drive to a restaurant I never went to before and she did? I can't figure that one out.

Agree totally about Chris and contacts. She insists her insurance will pay for them but I don't know about that. She doesn't know how her insurance works. Two years ago when she went for her last eye exam before now they told her she owed 20.00 for the exam and 20.00 for glasses. She went with a cheaper frame and standard bifocals so everything was covered for 40.00. But Chris insisted it was 20.00 for both so she refused to pay the other 20.00. She said one of her coworkers told her that. Then Chris told me she was going to fight it because they were wrong. I then said to her OK but check with your human resources department first. But she didn't do that and called the doctor's office and verbally attacked the office person she spoke with. Then later found out that indeed she would owe 40.00 for both the exam and glasses but never paid them the 20.00 she owed. And later on that year we moved and they didn't have her new address so if they sent her a bill it may have gone back to them as undeliverable.For some reason none of her mail ever got forwarded even though she did a change of address form.

And as for Chris and contact lenses everything would be against her. I did some research and from what I read they say almost everybody can be fitted for and successfully wear contact lenses. But I don't think so. Another thing I didn't mention is Chris has dry eyes and often uses Visine.If she can't tolerate a dilated eye exam which she can't how is she going to tolerate contact lenses? Plus I also believe she would have difficulty putting them in and taking them out. Also Chris has zero patience if she can't do something right away. And this would be something I couldn't help her with because I know I couldn't do it myself because of my hands. I know they have different kinds of contact lenses because everybody's eyes are different as to what kinds of lenses their eyes can tolerate. But I think Chris would have problems with all kinds. Wouldn't contacts be easier to adjust to if you only have one eye issue? I don't know if you follow sports but Kevin Durant who is a basketball player must wear contacts because when I see pictures of

him off the court he always is wearing glasses that appear to have a fairly significant minus script. I think most athletes nowadays do Lasik but if they don't they might decide to wear contacts just to play their sport and wear glasses the rest of the time. I know years back I remember watching basketball games on TV and occasionally a player would lose a contact lens and in my mind I can still picture the players on both teams and the refs trying to find it.But that doesn't seem to happen nowadays. Probably because less players wear contact lenses and those that do because of technological advances the lenses are less likely to pop out than they did years ago.

But Chris is so naive.If she wears contacts she will have to likely do so full time but doesn't almost everybody who wears contacts have to give their eyes a rest occasionally and then will need glasses too because once your eyes gets used to correction you will need it all the time? Chris thinks this a way to completely ditch glasses. It is all a very bad plan. She needs to get her glasses adjusted and start wearing them and get adjusted to them. And I still can't believe that her glasses without insurance would have cost over 800.00. I could never imagine paying that kind of money for a pair of glasses. And if Chris' insurance does cover contacts my guess is it would only be a small portion of the cost and she would have to pay more out of pocket than she even did for her glasses.But since Chris is a part time dentures wearer she probably thinks she can be a part time contact lenses wearer too and be able to go bare eyed when she isn't wearing them. Chris is quite an interesting woman isn't she?

Cactus Jack 25 Apr 2016, 13:41


Two things happen at night. The first has to do with optics and the pupils of your eyes. There is an optical phenomenon called "Depth of Field" or "Range of Useful Focus" by photographers. There is an "iris" adjustment on a High End Camera lens called the "f" stop that controls the amount of light that strikes the film. Your pupils are similar. When the light is bright, a photographer will close down the Iris and your pupils will contract, increasing your Depth of Field. In dim light, the Iris and your Pupils open up, which reduces your depth of field. The overall effect is that your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses have to work harder to focus close when your pupils are wide open. You can demonstrate this phenomenon in bright light by looking through a pin hole or a button hole.

The second thing has to do with fatigue. It is likely that at the end of the day your Ciliary Muscles are tired, which also affects their ability to squeeze your Crystalline Lenses to focus close.


Maxim 25 Apr 2016, 12:22

All this depends of the necessities of near vision.

As a van driver reading 6 delivery notes (30 seconds each) with reasonable big letters during an 8-hour-shift I might easily cope the daily tasks without a near vision add.

When I'm repairing watches, smartphones or model trains at 28 centimeters working distance (equals an accommodation of +3,5 needed) for eight hours a day, this will be a different issue for my near vision.

Soundmanpt 25 Apr 2016, 12:05


Everyone is simply providing you with advice. And even if your ECP (eye care professional) were to recommend bifocals / progressives it would still your decision to get them or not get them. But to be honest you clearly already must be wearing your glasses full time based on your prescription so i really don't see why getting an add in the form of progressives would be such a big problem for you? Unless you told someone no one would ever know that your glasses were progressive anyway. I think what is bothering you is just that horrible word "bifocal" that really puts most people off. But just as Cactus Jack said now it is not at all unusual at all for a teen to be wearing progressives.

Kieran  25 Apr 2016, 11:48

Thanks for your response Cactus Jack

Why is it only really a problem late at night?

I'm not really sure I like the idea of needed reading glasses before I'm even 35, Specs4Ever commented that if I got them now that I would become dependent on them, if that is the problem and I don't get bifocals/progressives is it something that will still get worse? I think, with it only being an issue at night I can probably cope with it if it means not needing the reading add.

Cactus Jack 25 Apr 2016, 10:54


Specs4ever is correct. There are really only two possibilities. One is that Presbyopia is creeping up on you and / or Two, Some of your myopia is actually Pseudo Myopia and you are using some of your gradually decreasing accommodation range to create some Pseudo Myopia. Neither one is anything to get very excited about. As Specs4ever said, visual comfort is the most important thing.

The idea that you don't need close focusing help util you are 40 is a myth. Everyone is different and everyone's visual environment is different. These days, the tiny text on Smartphones and Tablets has altered many people's visual environment and caused them to have focusing trouble, even in their teens. Before you decide on a low power bifocal or progressive add, I suggest trying some low power Over-the-Counter (OTC) reading glasses, over your regular glasses. +1.00 if you can find them. Alternatively, you could order some +1.00 Clip On Magnifiers from Rx Safety Glasses in New Jersey for about US$15.00 plus shipping.

If you want to order some glasses on line, let us know and we can help.

If you have more questions, please feel free to ask.


Kieran  25 Apr 2016, 09:06

Hi Specs4ever

Thank you for responding

My distance vision now is great, probably the best that I've ever had really.

The optician did check my close up vision when I had the test with my new prescription and I did struggle to read the handheld chart, but was told that was down to my prescription increasing more than normal and it would settle down. When I went back to see them, they tested it again and this time I could read the chart although the smallest line wasn't overly comfortable. However that was first thing in the morning and it is only really at night that it seems to be a problem, but obviously I can't get a 10PM appointment.

I would have thought if it was due to me needing progressives/bifocals it would be a problem at all times of the day rather than just at night

Specs4ever 25 Apr 2016, 08:15

I guess it all depends on how your distance vision seems while wearing your new prescription Kieran. If your distance vision is nice and sharp I think Cactus Jack will likely advise you that the time for a reading add has arrived. Generally most myopes can make it to a more advanced age than you are before the word progressives enters their vocabulary, but this is not always the case.

The one downside to having bifocals or progressives at the age you are is that your eyes will likely become dependent on the add, and while it will likely only start off at around a +1.00D it will gradually increase over the next few years. But your comfort is the most important thing here.

I am surprised that your eye doctor did not explain this to you. He is correct in saying that as your eyes become accustomed to the new prescription you might find small print easier to read, but it sounded to me as if you have given it long enough for this to happen.

Soundmanpt 25 Apr 2016, 08:13


I simply don't bother responding to stupid comments like that one about me being you or all the other ones. To me I have better things to do then bother with trolls that are bored with life.

Sorry I did miss answering several things you asked about. Once your an adult your PD doesn't change anymore. So once you get that information you will always know it. If you do order her prescription sunglasses I really think she would be fine with single vision and yes you do need to include her cylinder numbers as well as the axis's. You just don't include the add. Actually when you start to fill out her information it will ask you if the glasses are single vision or bifocals. Once you check the single vision box when you go to enter her prescription there won't won't even be a place to include her add. If her current glasses seem to be on the large size then yes she may not want her sunglasses to be any larger. Actually you might be better at deciding on a size by using her non prescription sunglasses for size. Somehow I really don't think Chris would do very well with contacts. She can't seem to get adjusted to wearing her glasses and contacts would be much more difficult for her I think. Actually it would be great if she could because if she were able to wear contacts she would for sure be wearing them full time and it wouldn't take long before she wouldn't be able to function without either her glasses or contacts. But in her case they would likely just be a big waste of money and most insurances don't cover contact lenses so it would totally out of her pocket as well. I hope she takes the time to get her glasses adjusted so they don't hurt behind her ear. Wearing them like she is now is only going to stretch them out and make them fit even worse.

Kieran  25 Apr 2016, 08:04

Cactus Jack,

My old prescription was Left -5.25, -1.50, 170 Right -5.50, -0.75, 180

My new prescription is Left - 6.00, -150, 160 Right -5.75, -0.75, 180

I'm 34

Cactus Jack 25 Apr 2016, 07:51


Could you provide your age and your complete new and previous prescription?


Kieran  25 Apr 2016, 07:34

Hi not sure if this is the right place but Im looking for some help.

I had an eye test about a month ago where I got an increase in my prescription. I picked up my new glasses a week later and my vision in them is great apart from when I try to use my phone or read with them late at night when I seem to have issues being able to focus on the text properly. Focus probably isn't the right word but it's the closest I can think of. It's especially bad if I use my iPhone where the text seems really small, it's not really a problem during the day.

I have spoken to my eye doc about it, but was told it was just down to the increase in my prescription and my eyes need to get used to them but I've never had it take a three weeks for this to happen before, does this seem normal?

Michael 24 Apr 2016, 12:57

Soundmanpt-Why would anybody think you and I are the same person? I have no idea if we have the same writing style or not.And who cares if we do or not The problem might be the person just isn't intelligent enough to comprehend what we are talking about. But I really appreciate it that you are responding to me.And why is there a person or people who feels the need to make digs at all of us who are trying to discuss eye issues intelligently?Chris has some serious issues and am trying to figure out the best way to deal with them. Plus I didn't appreciate the digs that were made at Jamie and her husband. She claims it doesn't bother her but I have to admit this stuff does bother me.This has happened on other message boards as well. If people don't like what we are talking about they don't have to make derogatory comments. I wish there was a way for the moderator to block the IP addresses of the people writing the tasteless remarks or at the very least delete the posts.If people don't have anything to contribute just don't write. If there are people who think we are both phonies there is nothing we can do. I am far from being an expert about eyes and am trying to learn more and I respect your opinions very much so if I do post some misinformation I know either you or one of the other very knowledgeable people who contribute here will correct me. Which I greatly appreciate.

Michael 24 Apr 2016, 12:18

Soundmanpt-Thank you so much for your help. Not sure what we will do, But this is definitely a viable option.

I did get a chance to talk to Chris' boyfriend last night when she was in another room. I told him Chris really would benefit from wearing her glasses. He told me she has been wearing them but by wearing them I don't mean just putting them on when she wants to read something. I then told him Chris needs to be wear her glasses much more than she has been especially for driving. And she should never drive without corrective lenses. Hopefully she will get her glasses adjusted tomorrow and begin wearing them more frequently. And begin by keeping them on in the house.She will never get adjusted to the progressive lenses if she doesn't put them on and keep them on. I can understand her not wanting to wear them much right now if they are too tight behind the ear but once they are adjusted and are comfortable I see no reason for her not to wear them. I am not going to not love her because she wears glasses. She is still going to be my best friend. And I told her boyfriend what you told me. If Chris was ever involved in a serious auto accident and other people were injured or died she could get into trouble if it was ever found out that Chris was advised by her optometrist to wear glasses for driving and she didn't.Chris definitely is putting both herself and other people at risk by continuing to drive without corrective lenses.

I can't force Chris to wear her glasses full time but maybe nudge her a little bit by explaining to her the advantages of doing so. My hope is once she gets them adjusted tomorrow she will begin at least wearing them more than she has been. If she begins wearing them more but still doesn't want to wear them for driving then I can bring up about ordering inexpensive prescription sunglasses online. I would have to do all the work but that is OK since Chris isn't that good on the computer and her boyfriend doesn't know computers at all.I already set up an online account in my name. Paul got a cellphone a month or so before Christmas so Chris wanted one too so I bought her one for Christmas but I am not sure either one knows how to fully use their phones. As it is whenever they buy phone cards they ask me to put them on their phones. I set up Net 10 accounts for both of them so I can add the minutes to their phones through the app.

I don't have Chris' script in front of me at the moment but I believe her PD is 62. You said to get a frame slightly larger than her current frame but her current frame already looks large so I am not sure about that. I am guessing I would have to measure it. The next thing I would have to get would be a millimeter ruler because I don't have one. Could pick one up at Wal Mart but maybe Dollar Tree has them.And I agree completely about only getting sunglasses with her distance prescription. There would be very few occasions she would need the reading ad. Maybe if she does a MapQuest and if she wants to read the directions while driving she would have to take off her sunglasses and put on her regular glasses. But at least 95% of the time she would not need the reading add to drive. And I am assuming her cylinder numbers are part of the distance prescription and I would need to include those numbers if I order sunglasses for her. Am I correct?

As for me I am asking about PD just in case I might someday want to order an extra pair of glasses for myself.The place I buy my glasses from is a local optical shop. Not part of a chain. I don't think they would give me a problem if I ever asked for my PD. The place is very good. You can walk in without an appointment to get your glasses adjusted and you can go for an adjustment even if you didn't buy your glasses there. But it is awful that some places now are refusing to give it to you. I know they have it because they need it to make the glasses. And I know when they put the little ruler on my nose they are measuring my PD. And does the PD ever change? I don't think you gave me an answer to that before.

I am still wearing my glasses from 2014.The change in my script from 2 years was not much different from what it is now so my doctor told me I didn't have to fill the new script unless I wanted new glasses. But it is an option to order a cheap pair online with the new script just to see if they make any difference. I really didn't want to pay 300.00 again for glasses like I did in 2014. For your info I can post my script for both 2014 and now if you would like me to. But Chris two years ago tried to start an argument with me comparing her eyes to mine. She said my eyes are worse because i wear my glasses full time and she doesn't. But that has nothing to do with it. Not sure what my uncorrected vision is but I think it is better than 20/70. And I wouldn't even think about driving without glasses even if I could pass the eye test without them. Aren't progressives meant to be worn full time unless the distance script is very weak and Chris' is not? I got my first progressives at about age 45 and went full time right away.But by the point I was already close to full time wear with my other glasses. As time went on I started wearing my glasses more and more so when I got the progressives it wasn't that hard for me to get used to them.

And thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it. Just have to figure out what we will do. Chris did put on her glasses for a short time today but she had them on funny and one of the temples was not behind her ear because it hurts.I am hoping after she gets them adjusted she will wear them.Because wearing them the way she is now they would be way out of alignment.

But she is still saying she wants contacts next year which I don't think is a great idea for a variety of reasons. I know Chris and for one I think she will have problems putting the contacts in.And the second reason is she may have trouble getting used to them because she will likely have to get multi focal lenses.Monovision may or may not be an option. Plus I know she has sensitive eyes so that may also be an issue. Her eyes may not tolerate contacts. I think she is trying to figure out a way to completely avoid wearing glasses. Which tells me she knows she needs corrective lenses of some kind to be able to see well. Chris doesn't realize that even if she gets contacts she will have to wear glasses sometimes. And going bare eyed when she isn't wearing her contacts I don't think is a viable option. And Lasik wouldn't be an option because she can't afford it. And if she got contacts I wouldn't be able to help her put them in because I have issues with my hands because of the CP.My hands shake and I have trouble doing some things with them especially things that involve fine dexterity.

Even when I pick up a glass my hand shakes. My left hand is worse than my right. I grew up writing left handed but as the years went on I learned how to write right handed.Now I write equally well with either hand. If I write something right handed and then something left handed other people can't tell the difference because they are almost identical.And people have always told me my handwriting and printing both are very neat. As long as I take my time. My hands do get tired very quickly so it is good I can use either one to write. I think I do very well despite my disability. I can do most things using either hand but there are things I either can't do or at best do with much difficulty. Examples are threading a needle, using a manual can opener or using a lighter. Thank god I never smoked because I wouldn't be able to light a cigarette.

But I was never in a special class in school even though there were instances when I couldn't do certain things. One thing I couldn't do was dissect a frog in biology class. Thank goodness my partner covered for me and did all the work.But I do think I have a lot of good qualities. I think I am smart and can do things people always said I would never be able to do. I never thought years ago I could ever learn to use a computer and not only do I use one I think I am very good at resolving technical issues.I can both read and write which puts me ahead of some other people.Plus I held a full time job for 20 years.But was able fortunately to get on SSDI after I couldn't another job.I don't do well on interviews and don't come across to some other people as being intelligent even though I know I am. People were always reluctant to give me a chance.Even though I did get the Wal Mart job but had to give that up after a few years because my feet could not tolerate standing for that many hours.Now I do online surveys which helps me earn some extra money.

 24 Apr 2016, 09:27

why does the writing style of Michael match so closely with Soundmanpt match? same words, tl;dr messages, writing back and forth together all day long?

 24 Apr 2016, 07:12

Lasik is cheaper, in the long run. Also glasses are ugly on woman.

Soundmanpt 24 Apr 2016, 06:32


Let me see if I can provide you with some help if you decide to order glasses / sunglasses from Zenni. Of course you need your full prescription or in Chris's case her full prescription. And you need the PD measurement. You said that where Chris went they did provide that to her on her written prescription which is helpful. So it seems you have all the necessary information that you need in order to place an order for rx sun glasses from her. The only other thing is for you and her to pick out a frame that she will hopefully be happy enough to actually wear. Remember for sunglasses she should want them to be slightly bigger than regular glasses so they block out more light. Remember you don't need to go into the section where it shows ready made sunglasses because those are mostly just for people that want non prescription sunglasses. Just go in as if your looking for regular glasses and then you put in where it asks if you want a tint? It will give you all sorts of options for a tint in nearly every color possible but for true sunglasses that work the best they even tell you that 80% gray tint is the best and they are right. Just be sure to take your time when entering her prescription numbers that you use the correct sign in front of each number such as (-) or (+). Now since they are sunglasses and really meant for distance I don't think there is any reason to pay extra for progressives. Getting her single vision for distance should do the trick for her. But if she insist on wanting the reading add that is going to make the cost of her glasses around $55.00. If she stays with single vision they should be less than $20.00. They only charge $5.00 to make them up as sunglasses so if she finds a pair of glasses that she likes and they are $12.95 which I know that they have well over 800 pairs to choose from for that price, then the extra $5.00 will make her total price for her rx sunglasses $18.95. They do charge a one time shipping price of $5.00. Now if you were to decide to order glasses for yourself at the same time that one time shipping cost would of course cover the shipping of your glasses. Now as for your needing your PD measurement the easiest way would be to go to where you have been getting your glasses from and ask them for it. They have it on your chart because they needed that information to make your glasses. Now I have to warn you that some places have started refusing to provide that information to patients even if you got your eye exam and glasses from them. By law they are allowed to do that because the PD is a part of the getting glasses process and not a part of your eye exam. I can tell you that Lenscrafter's, Pearle Vision, Sears Optical, JC Penny optical and Target optical are stores that have been told by Luxottica which owes all those stores not to release the PD to patients. I would say this to you, if you go where you have been getting your glasses from and they refuse to provide you that information if it were me I would tell them on the spot that they have seen the last of me in their store. Trust me most stores will provide that to you even if you didn't your glasses their and only had your eye exam done their. Now you can do it yourself which isn't really difficult but let me know if you want me to describe how to do it. For you if your looking at maybe getting a spare pair of regular glasses I would suggest that you first find a ruler that has millimeters on one side and measure your current glasses across the face from the outside left to the outside right. That number should come up somewhere between 132mm and 140mm depending on how wide your head is. That way when you find glasses you like compare the size to your current glasses and if it is close they should fit you great.

Michael 23 Apr 2016, 17:20

Likelenses-I love the way you put it. Chris sure is a very interesting lady. We met 9 years ago when we both worked at our local Wal Mart.And somehow we connected and became very good friends. We have been living together for over 5 years. It is a very long story how we became roommates.You will have to read my book when I get around to writing it. Chris works at Savers now which is a thrift store. She works in back of the store getting merchandise ready to be put on the shelves mostly clothes. I am retired and on SSDI. I worked in the insurance industry for 20 years but was laid off when the accounting functions got transferred out of state. I tried to supplement my income by working part time as a people greeter in Wal Mart and did so for a few years but had to give it up because my feet could not handle standing for a long period of time. My feet got so bad I had to undergo several surgeries and it took a long time for my feet to feel somewhat normal. But no way I could do that job now because I would completely kill my feet. They hurt sometimes when I am on them for too long but nothing like when I worked at Wal Mart. It got so bad that when I worked a long shift and it was over I would literally have to crawl to my car. It was bad. Very bad.

Likelenses 23 Apr 2016, 16:21


Chris is a very interesting lady. How on earth did you meet her?

Where does she work,and what does she do?

She sounds very head strong.

Michael 23 Apr 2016, 15:24

Jamie-Did you tell David that reading glasses are not necessarily just for older people?

Michael 23 Apr 2016, 14:42

Update on Chris- She is having problems with her glasses. She said they are too tight behind one of her ears so will go for an adjustment on Monday.So I don't think she wore them much today and hasn't put them on since she got home from work. I just hope she isn't making excuses not to wear them. She spent a lot of money for these glasses and really needs to wear them if she wants to see well.I wish once she gets them adjusted she just puts them on and leaves them on and as long as they are adjusted properly she will get used to them. I don't think it will be easy for Chris to wear her glasses full time but it is something she really needs to do.

Personally if I was her I would have opted for a metal frame instead of the plastic frame she chose because the glasses would have been lighter. I haven't picked up her glasses but they appear to be on the heavy side. But she is 100% against metal frames because she believes they are poorly made because when she last got a metal frame the lenses kept popping out. I have never had a problem with a metal frame. I don't like plastic frames because whenever I got one I dealt with glasses constantly sliding down my nose.And no matter how many times I tried to get them adjusted they never were right.So for now on it is metal for me.

Many years ago my aunt thought it would be a good idea for me to get a spare pair of glasses. So I went with her to this optical place which was not the place I had my other glasses made. I chose a plastic frame for my spare pair and the glasses were made and after I got them the guy adjusted them. Fine but they kept on sliding down my nose after I wore them a little bit. So I kept on going back about every week or so and the guy tried to adjust them. And it was the same thing over and over and I eventually gave up. The owner was not one bit sympathetic to my situation. I was not compensated in any way.I should have been given a chance for the glasses to be remade with a different frame at no cost. So I took the loss on those glasses. I barely wore them and much preferred my other ones which had a metal frame. And as you can probably figure out I never went back there again. I made a mistake of not pursuing the matter further. Looking at it now I should have filed a complaint with the BBB. But this all happened a long time ago. Maybe 25 years or so.I don't know how much I paid for the glasses but whatever it was it was like throwing money in the garbage because I barely wore them. They were the worst glasses I ever had in my entire life.

Michael 23 Apr 2016, 12:03

To use one of Chris' favorite words my cousin Maryann looks dorky doing what she does. And I never even thought about the possibility of her scratching the lenses by putting the sunglasses over her regular glasses.But unlike Chris Maryann realizes that just wearing non prescription sunglasses won't do her any good. I believe her regular glasses are progressives just like Chris' are.

And I did sign up for a Zenni account. Have to figure out how to order glasses. I guess I would have to measure her current frame. And her PD number is on her script so we wouldn't have to measure that. Not sure Chris would go for this but I would be willing to pay for the sunglasses being the good friend and nice guy I am. I don't have a lot of money but I think I can afford this.

One question for you? I don't have my PD number. It is not on my script. Would I be able to get it from the place I got my last glasses from if I ever needed it? And does that number change over time?

And one other thing I would like to clear up. It isn't Chris saying her eyes are sensitive to light. It is an observation I have made. I think I told you when we lived at the other place I had to shut off all the lights when she went to bed because she couldn't tolerate the glare and even used to complain about the glare coming from my computer monitor. Plus the shades and blinds had to be drawn. She told me she can't sleep with any kind of light which may be in her head like not being able to eat with her dentures or able to drive without wearing the non prescription sunglasses.

I will continue to update you as to when Chris is wearing her glasses. Yesterday at least she made an effort to wear them more than she ever wore her old ones but she does need to realize that she should never drive without wearing corrective lenses. And you are right. The more Chris wears her glasses the harder it will be for her to go without them. What I don't know is how much she is wearing them in work. Before she wouldn't put them on unless she needed to read something up close. I am not there so I don't know for sure but my guess is Chris did not wear her glasses much at her job because she spends most of her time sorting clothes and the job doesn't involve much reading.

But can you believe until she had her most recent eye exam she kept telling people she only needed glasses to read small print? But now she is finally admitting she can't see distance and can't see close. But I knew that a long time ago. But until now she was never advised as to when to wear her glasses. And you are right about 20/40. That is the cutoff in most states to pass the DMV eye exam.You need at least one eye that sees 20/40 or better. Also admitted to me she could read almost no letters on the chart. What I don't know is if the 20/70 vision was in her left eye or right eye.But whatever she shouldn't be driving without corrective lenses. Plus she always squinted a lot. I ran this by Cactus Jack two years ago and he agreed with me that Chris'right eye was likely her main source of vision when she wasn't wearing her glasses. But now it has gotten slightly weaker from what it was two years ago so it may be making driving even more difficult. It is bad when your good eye isn't so good anymore. Which may be the case with Chris. I remember what Cactus Jack wrote in 2014.I can't force Chris to wear her glasses but he did say most people with her script would wear it full time.

This is what I would like to see happen. I would like Chris to give driving a shot wearing her regular glasses.Especially on a cloudy day or at night. I can't understand how any kind of sunglasses would help her then.And if she feels she still needs sunglasses we can try to order some on Zenni. I would have to be the one who orders them and make sure I get her numbers right. I care for her so much and don't want something bad to happen that can be prevented.This is an issue that can be fixed pretty easily.But Chris is very hard headed and doesn't like people telling her what to do which kind of puts me in a quandary. I also told Chris if she has any issues with her glasses to come to me and I will try to figure something out. Almost every problem can be resolved.She just has to let me try to help her.

Michael 23 Apr 2016, 08:54

So maybe what Chris does isn't all that unusual.But I do think it is in her head that she can't eat with her dentures. Just like it is in her head that her non prescription sunglasses somehow give her improved vision.

Soundmanpt 23 Apr 2016, 08:29


Actually what your cousin does with wearing her sunglasses over the top of her prescription glasses is not that unusual. In fact my own mother often did the very same thing she had cataract and got ICL lenses and was even told that she didn't need to wear glasses anymore. But she was so used to wearing glasses that she insisted on her doctor to write her a prescription. He wrote did write her some type of very weak prescription really just to make her happy. Of course my mother never knew my interest in glasses so I never asked her anything about her glasses. But I do know she was able to see the TV perfectly fine without them and even could read small print without them so they had to be extremely weak. Anyway after the surgery her eyes were much more light sensitive and even though she had transition lenses in her glasses they didn't seem to get dark enough to please her. She went out and found some over size sunglasses which i am almost sure were called Sonic glasses or Solar I am not sure which. But they were made to go over the top of glasses or could be worn by themself as well. They were honestly quite ugly because they were so big and they even covered the side areas of your glasses so no light could get in anywhere. But also I worked with a very attractive young lady one day when we were at lunch she commented to me that she thought she should get her eyes checked because she was noticing things at a distance didn't look as clear as they should. Anyway the next day she told me that she had made an appointment to get her eyes checked. I was shocked when she told me where she had made her appointment for because a very expensive boutique type of place. Their prices made Lenscrafter's look like Wal-Mart. Anyway remember this was some 30 years ago or so and she told me the reason she went their was because they offered her a free eye exam. But not surprising she needed glasses and they sold her everything that was possible as options for her glasses. One of the things they sold her was transition lenses. Her total price for glasses was in the $800.00 range just like Chris paid only she didn't have any insurance to help her out. I knew this girl well enough that she even on cloudy days she always wore her sunglasses because her eyes were very light sensitive. Anyway when she picked up her glasses she was very disappointed that her lenses didn't nearly as dark as she needed them to be. The next time we went to lunch she was of course wearing her glasses I was a little surprised to see her take out her sunglasses and put them on over the top of her glasses. I then told her that since her glasses weren't working like she wanted that she should go back and complain about them not working good enough for her. She then told me that she didn't think her glasses were right anyway because she still wasn't seeing very well and she was sure her eyes were adjusted to them. She went back and they gave her a full refund and she went to another place which was much more reasonable and she started over and got her eyes re examined and a different prescription. She got regular glasses as well as rx sunglasses and still didn't spend as much as she did at the other place. This time she said her glasses were perfect and she could see great with them. We went out a few more times and then she moved to Florida to be with her sister and mom that had moved their a few years earlier. Anyway what your cousin is doing is okay but I know it look funny as hell and she runs the risk of scratching her lenses on her glasses putting them on. You should maybe suggest to her about ordering rx sunglasses from Zenni.

As for as Chris goes the only thing you can hope for is that by starting to wear her glasses more often it is going to get harder and harder for her to see without them and she might finally start putting them on whens she gets up and leaves them on while driving, but if she is really as light sensitive as she claims to be I fear that she might still try driving without her glasses which is such a bad idea. Have you suggested to her about checking out the Zenni site? maybe you can bring it up on your computer and have her start looking at what thye have to offer. You can even post her picture and she can do a virtual try on if she wishes. Like I said for less than $20.00, which is hardly nothing compared to what her glasses cost, she can have a nice pair of rx sunglasses if she really needs the darkness so much to drive. At least they would have her prescription in them.

Julian 23 Apr 2016, 04:23

Yes, I've known people take their dentures out to eat. My brother (half-brother really) who was 16 when I was born and lived into his 80s never really adjusted to dentures, and I'm not sure that he wore them when he wasn't eating, whereas I have s partial denture ever since I fell teeth first off a wall at the age of 12 - and `i don't always take it out at night as I'm supposed to.

Michael 22 Apr 2016, 23:53

You know what is funny. The lenses never popped out of her sunglasses from what I can remember.And they always seem to pop out of metal frames so that is why she sticks with plastic now. Also I don't think the lenses ever popped out of her drugstore readers. What would cause that to happen? Personally I like metal frames better because in the past when I got plastic they would constantly slide down my nose no matter how many times I tried to get them adjusted. She told me they recommended metal frames but Chris wanted plastic. With the dexterity in my hands I wouldn't even know how to loosen the lenses in her sunglasses. But believe me I would love to do something so she couldn't wear her sunglasses driving to work one day. But the more she wears her glasses both at home and in work the harder it will be for her to continue driving without corrective lenses. But she may not realize that. Her vision with her glasses is greatly improved whether she admits it or not. I kind of want to snoop on her to pick up her pattern of wearing her glasses but I can't make myself conspicuous. She knows I spend most of my time at night in my bedroom and would wonder what I was up to if I kept on going into the living room to see what she is doing. I wonder if she kept them on tonight until she went to bed. I have no clue because I keep the door to my room shut because I don't want our cats coming in and bothering me. But she put them on when she turned on the TV shortly after getting home from work and then I went to McDonald's for dinner and when I got back her glasses were still on and shortly after I get back she went into the kitchen to do a few things and still kept her glasses on which is a first for Chris. Then later on she came into the kitchen again but the door to my room was shut and didn't feel like opening it. But I heard the refrigerator door so obviously she was getting something to either eat or drink.

I want Chris to wear her glasses but the reason I want her to do it is I know she needs to wear them in order to see.

Glad you enjoyed reading about Chris' dentures. But wouldn't it be funny if she left them in the restaurant and they got thrown out? That could happen because Chris can be absent minded.But when my aunt asked if we wanted to go out I left it completely up to Chris. But part of me wished she said no because I knew that Chris takes out her teeth when eating and I really didn't want my aunt to see that. I don't let it bother me but this something I don't really want my family to see especially my elderly aunt. But my aunt on the phone the next day asked me a lot of question about Chris and her teeth a lot of them which I couldn't even answer.I remember saying to my aunt if you want to know why Chris takes out her teeth to eat you will have to ask her. I don't have dentures but from what I know about them is everybody who gets them eventually gets used to them. Just like with glasses It takes some people longer than others.I love Chris even though our relationship is platonic but I think you can see why I prefer not bringing her to any of my family's gatherings. Also Chris is a fussy eater and I know some of the places my family likes to go to Chris wouldn't like. But both Chris and I like Applebees and my aunt knows that so when she said Applebees Chris couldn't turn it down.

Soundmanpt did you ever hear of anybody before who took out their dentures to eat? A part time dentures wearer is a new one to me. And how about my cousin wearing the two pairs of glasses at once.Did you ever know anybody who did that? My cousin is a nice person but is weird in a lot of ways. I could tell you more things about her you might not believe either but I am not going there. Chris with the things she does and my family I don't think would hit it off very well.

And why is Chris so klutzy? And I was the one born with CP not her. Everything she does seems to be very difficult. I do think at least some of her problems are vision related. I can't remember what it was but maybe a year or so ago she was having a hard time doing something and I asked her if she wanted me to try and she said no way I could do it but guess what I did it and from what I remember not only did I do it but did it easily despite the poor dexterity in my hands.I am still trying to figure out how she keeps breaking every drain clog I buy. They all can't be defective and now three of them have broken in 18 months.

How is she breaking them? I have always said if you want to break something or lose it just give it to Chris. But isn't it strange that her sunglasses never break?And the other place she used to go to for her eye exams and glasses have to be thrilled she didn't go back this year. They have had their fill of Chris. She put all the blame on them for the broken glasses.And one time they wanted to fix them in the office but she insisted they send them back to the lab and remake them and apparently they did that but the glasses still broke again within a short period of time.I even went online to see if there were any consumer complaints about the place but couldn't find any. This was all Chris I believe. She was costing them money because they repaired her glasses numerous times and never charged her for doing so. She complained about the place to her family and friends including me looking for sympathy. Not sure if she got any but all I said to her was something was wrong and said no more. Because I really think the problem was Chris and not them.But I wasn't going to tell her that because she would have shot me down. Even though I believe her glasses broke because of how she handled them.She kept them on top of her head which did nothing but stretch them out. Also kept them hanging on her shirt and they would often fall on the floor. And never kept them in the case when she wasn't wearing them which was most of the time.

And can you believe Chris is already talking about getting contacts next year? I have read that people who have them say they are easy to put in but I know Chris and nothing is easy for her. And because of my CP I don't think this is something I could help her with.Plus she would have to get multi focal lenses. And it could be hard for her to adjust to them. And what she doesn't realize is when she is not wearing her contacts she will probably have to wear glasses because going bare eyed would not likely be an option for her anymore at least a very good one. Instead of worrying about contacts she should try to figure out how our vacuum cleaner works because she hasn't been able to do that yet and we have had this vacuum cleaner for about 3 years.

Living with Chris is certainly exciting don't you think?

Likelenses 22 Apr 2016, 20:55


Living with Chris is certainly entertaining for you.

I almost fell out of my chair laughing about the dentures.

Since Chris has a history of lenses popping out of her frames,perhaps you could press one almost out of her sunglasses,to the point that when she puts them on,it will pop out. Just make sure to not leave any finger prints on the lense.

Michael 22 Apr 2016, 18:26

Soundmanpt- I agree with you 100%.Those non prescription sunglasses are a crutch. She has it in her head she needs them to drive even though they don't help her vision one little bit.On more than one occasion she couldn't find them and went into a state of panic. But I could never throw them out. I wouldn't have the heart because I wouldn't want her to throw out something of mine. Hiding them might be an idea but if she found out it was me she would kill me. I think I could find them after she goes to bed and then hide them in my room and when she got up the next morning and looked for them before leaving the house she wouldn't find them. Then what would she do? I stay up late at night and 90% of the time when she leaves the house around 7 I am still sleeping. It might be a way to force her to wear her new glasses when driving but she would be in a quandary for sure.

And you are so right. The more she wears her glasses the more blurry her vision will appear to be when she isn't wearing them. That is what puts many people into full time wear. Even though their eyes didn't get worse they will think they are because the brain is getting adjusted to seeing clearly. If she starts easing into full time wear which it appears she might be trying to do I think she will reach the point sooner rather than later when she will realize she can't drive at all without corrective lenses.

I would love it if she began to use a little common sense and just start wearing her glasses for driving. But she didn't do it today. Since she didn't do it this afternoon I am sure she didn't wear them when driving to work this morning either. But as I said I am seldom up yet when she leaves for work so I don't know for sure what she did.

And I had no idea they can check your medical records if you are involved in a serious accident.Yes I love Chris to death. If something ever happened I sure would feel guilty. And I do have a heart. Just not sure I can be the one to tell her. I thought about talking to her boyfriend and maybe she will listen to him more than she would listen to me. If I talked to her optometrist could he notify DMV if I tell him she is not wearing her glasses for driving? I have researched this and can't find much definitive info online. I don't want to be the bad guy and am hoping she comes to her senses in the next couple of days.But it would be very difficult for Chris to wear her glasses most of the time but not wear them for driving. I recall Cactus Jack saying many times it is up to the person to decide when to wear his or her glasses with driving being the lone exception. Yes she can get a cheap pair of prescription sunglasses so that should not be an issue. I would even pay for them. I never wore sunglasses when driving but if she feels she needs to she has to buy a pair of prescription ones.

I told you what happened two years ago when she brought me to the hospital because I was having surgery.I knew her eyes weren't great but I think they are worse than I originally thought. She went to two previous eye doctors and neither one ever told her to wear her glasses for driving. My guess is they probably assumed she had been doing that given her vision.

You must have seen Chris' scripts that I posted both for now and 2014. Two years ago I wrote to Cactus Jack because I was trying to figure out just what Chris can see. But he couldn't give me a very definitive answer because other things other than refraction errors can cause poor vision. But Chris doesn't have either glaucoma or cataracts so that is good. I also asked her if she had a dilated exam and she said this doctor didn't give her one. Chris has had issues in the past with dilated exams because she cannot tolerate them. Then it is good she didn't go to my doctor because she always gives dilated exams.

But night driving can be tough. I will only drive at night when it is to a place I am very familiar with. And I loved what she told me last week about road signs when I asked her. She said she can see the signs but just can't see what is written on them. Can you believe she told me that?

And Chris doesn't drive much at night thank goodness.When she goes out with her boyfriend he drives most of the time. But he has told me he doesn't like driving at night because he can't see well either so maybe he lets her drive. This may be the blind leading the blind.

And one more thing that is slightly off topic but lets you know just what I am dealing with.Did you ever hear of a part time dentures wearer? I have one living with me. She takes her dentures out whenever she eats claiming she can't eat with them. This goes right along with not wanting to drive wearing her glasses. It is all in her head. People get used to dentures just like they get used to glasses. She got the dentures for cosmetic reasons obviously. Chris has always been very conscious of her physical appearance. One fear other than forgetting about them and leaving them on the table and possibly accidentally getting thrown out is how it looks to other people. Last year my aunt took us out to lunch for Chris' birthday and believe me I got an earful from her about Chris' teeth.

You may think I am a story teller and making this all up but I would swear on a stack of Bibles I am not. Some of this stuff I don't think could be made up. But it is all 100% true if you can believe it.

I have another beauty for you if you can believe this. My cousin who has a lot of money but is cheap wears non prescription sunglasses over her regular glasses. She does that every time I ride with her on a long drive. Do you know anybody who does that? Maybe Chris should try that. But wearing two pair of glasses at one time sounds uncomfortable to me. I am dealing with some weird people don't you think?

Cactus Jack 22 Apr 2016, 17:49


I don't want to answer for Jaimie, but I suspect that David thinks his PLUS glasses look like his grandpa's PLUS glasses, perhaps for reading.

All but Trent have had their glasses for 3 days and I think they are doing very well with them. Hopefully, Jamie will keep us updated with progress reports. I am particularly interested in how Trenton's vision has affected his development and the difference being able to see, at least moderately well, affects his development from here forward.


You have not mentioned where you live so I don't have any idea what kinds of costs are involved in keeping your children in glasses with the most beneficial prescription. Also, there are going to be some broken and lost glasses that insurance won;t cover. It may be beneficial at some point to order low cost high quality glasses from an online retailer, such as Zenni Optical. If you would like to learn how to order from an online retailer, please lets us know. Fundamentally, all you need is their prescription and Pupillary Distance (PD). Most of your children's glasses would be around US$6.95 plus shipping unless you needed super strong frames. I think, if you order several pairs of glasses from Zenni, the shipping charges only apply to the first pair.

Soundmanpt is the real expert in ordering glasses from Zenni, I have ordered some glasses for adult friends, but have not ordered glasses for children or for me. I wear Trifocals, but Zenni does not make them.

I wish you and your family well.


Jamie 22 Apr 2016, 17:18


David is referring to the fact that he needs them to read. His frames were his choice, and as a matter of fact, the same as Chris's ( he copies his older brother). David says he feels like a grandpa with his glasses because in his mind only older people need reading glasses.

Soundmanpt 22 Apr 2016, 16:51


She needs to lose those stupid non prescription sunglasses. They are useless to her. Too bad you don't have the nerve to find them when she isn't looking and throw them out or at least hide them away.

Soundmanpt 22 Apr 2016, 16:49


This may sound crazy but I hope your wrong about her still refusing to wear her glasses for driving. I can't imagine how much worse her vision is going to seem to her if she wears her glasses all day and then goes out to drive and takes them off. It's bad enough that she hasn't been wearing her glasses much at all all this time but at least her vision is somewhat used to seeing without glasses which of course is bad but now if her eyes are actually starting to adjust to her glasses and then she takes them off to drive everything is going to look even more blurry to her. I only hope it is so bad that she has no choice but to keep her glasses on if goes off driving. Let's just hope she is finally realizing just how much she needs to be wearing her glasses and keeps them on like she should.

Michael 22 Apr 2016, 16:34

Latest update on my roommate. As I said before she came home wearing her non prescription sunglasses but after she changed her clothes she turned on the TV and put her glasses on. I was going to McDonald's for dinner and asked her if she wanted anything.She said no but when I got back home a half hour or so later her glasses were still on.And she went into the kitchen to clean her coffee pot so it will be ready for the morning and kept her glasses on.That is a first for Chris I believe. I wonder if she wore them all day in work. I wouldn't even dare ask her. But she is supposed to wear them all day long but still will not wear them to drive. What do you guys make out of this? I think she realizes she sees much better with her glasses than without but for whatever reason won't wear them for driving. But the more she wears her glasses the harder it will be for her to go without them. She isn't straining her eyes anymore and her eyes have to be much more relaxed and she sees so much better. As many here have said when the brain gets used to a clear image it is hard to go back to a fuzzy image.

Soundmanpt 22 Apr 2016, 16:25


Your room mate Chris is not taking her vision impairment nearly as serious as she really should be. Like you say she is not only putting herself in danger but other innocent people as well by not wearing corrective lenses when she drives. If her overall vision acuity is only 20/70 she is far past what is considered as being safe to drive. In most if not all states the the number is 20/40. It is the stupidest thing I have every heard of for her to get glasses valued at over $800.00 and even paying several hundred out of her own pocket as well for glasses she has no real intention of wearing. Then at the same time she is too cheap too buy herself a pair of prescription sunglasses if that is what she feels like she needs for driving. But if her eyes are so sensitive that she needs sunglasses to even see to drive at night she probably shouldn't even be driving at night at all. I think she actually feels like her non prescription sunglasses are somehow providing her with improved vision. If she can't start wearing her $800.00 glasses to drive both day and night she has no business driving at all. Since you are totally aware of this I don't wish to be mean but I have to ask you how you will feel if she has an accident and someone is badly injured or wore yet killed because she is just to stubborn to wear her glasses? Don't tell me that it wouldn't bother you because you clearly have a heart and that would haunt you until the day you die. You simply have to sit her down and tell her that she has to start wearing her glasses or your going to turn her into the police and have her forced to pas a vision test to drive. By the way something she may not know is that if she was told that she needs to be wearing her glasses full time even though it doesn't show up on her driver's license the fact that she was advised by a medical person that she must wear glasses all the time that means more then what her license shows. So yes she is fine if she just gets pulled over and isn't wearing her glasses but if she is ever involved in a serious accident and they started checking her health records and found that she was told to wear glasses full time she would be in serious trouble in court. Her optometrists prescription means more than what her license says. If she wants prescription sunglasses she can get a very nice pair for less than $20.00 from Zenni ( I have ordered rx sunglasses for friends that have very sensitive eyes and by getting an 80% gray tint they really work very well for sensitive eyes.

Michael 22 Apr 2016, 16:17

astigmaphile-My advice to you would be don't feed the trolls. But that sure was a tasteless remark that person made. I hope Jamie doesn't feel insulted or takes it personal.I think responding to people like that is the worst thing you can do. It would be great if these posts could be deleted or that person's IP address can be blocked so he or she can't post here anymore but in the meantime if someone continues to troll I would just neglect the person and don't respond.

astigmaphile 22 Apr 2016, 15:23

Anonymous poster 1428 hrs,

Get yourself neutered. You have no right to tell a woman to have her tubes tied. I would hate to see you reproduce. The world already has enough vermin.

Michael 22 Apr 2016, 14:59

Jamie- What are grandpa glasses? I don't think I ever heard that term before. Do they look like his grandfather's glasses?

Michael 22 Apr 2016, 14:48

Yes David is getting by at least some of the time without glasses because at 9 years old he ha a lot of accommodation left that helps him overcome his farsightedness. His nearsighted brothers are not nearly as lucky. Except for Philip they are at the point where they need to wear their glasses if they want to see well.

And my roomie just got home from work. And of course she drove wearing her non prescription sunglasses. She doesn't get it does she? Chris beats to her own drum and does what she wants to do when she wants to do it. If she won't listen to an eye care professional she sure wouldn't listen to me.

 22 Apr 2016, 14:30

PS.: I forgot David, with his +2.25/+2.00 (slightly magnifying lenses):

With this hyperopia, a child can cope, there is not too much blurr, only a stronger effort of the muscles in the eye than with normal vision. So he likes it for homework, but there is still good vision for him when going out witout glasses-

His brother with the Minuslenses are unable to compensate, for them the choice is glasses or blurr, for him the choice is glasses with less effort or without glasses and an effort comparable to our effort when reading (but no blurr).

Michael 22 Apr 2016, 14:28

None of this is surprising to me except for your younger boys not wanting to follow the lead of their big brother. I thought they might. Even though all of them have different eye problems of varying degrees. But they all seem to be reacting pretty much like I thought they would. I can see why Chris wants to wear his glasses and why Philip doesn't think he needs glasses at all.And Scott seems to be seeing the benefit of wearing glasses which I thought he would. And David may come around but it may take some time. How did he wind up with like you said uncool glasses? Didn't he at least help pick them out? And considering David's age he may deal with peer pressure more than your other boys. But at some point he may come around and see the benefit of wearing his glasses in school.

But Jamie overall I don't think it was nearly as bad as you thought it would be. With all your boys getting glasses at the same time.I think we all have the tendency to fear the worst. I have to admit I often do as well. As Cactus Jack said don't push them especially David. Eventually they will see the benefit of wearing glasses and being able to see will become more important than any vanity issues they may have. Philip at least for now may be the toughest to come around because his vision without glasses is still quite good. Definitely can see why he doesn't think he needs glasses.

I am kind of dealing with the same thing with my roommate Chris as you may have read in some of my posts. She knows what the deal is and really needs to wear her glasses if she wants to be able to see but is going to fight it for as long as she can. So I can't pressure her because it will likely have the exact opposite effect. She has to do it on her own and on her own terms. And the doctor already told her she needs to wear them full time if she wants to be able to see. My concern more than anything else is I think she is going to continue to drive without corrective lenses which is a huge issue but I am not sure I can do anything about it. Even though other people's safety may be at risk along with hers. Unfortunately but maybe fortunately for Christine the state we live in doesn't ever require an eye exam when renewing a driver's license.I doubt seriously she would be able to pass a DMV eye test even though you can pass with something less than perfect vision. In my opinion if Chris had to pass an eye test she would either wind up with a restricted license or be denied a license completely if she refused to put on her glasses. She told me something about 20/70 vision but I have no idea if that is her left eye which is her bad eye or her right eye. But I don't think 20/70 gets it done in any state that requires an eye exam to get a license.

 22 Apr 2016, 14:28

Tie your tubes, Jaime.

Maxim 22 Apr 2016, 14:23

This is all very logical.

For Baby Trenton, it's essential, and gratulations, that this hyperopia is discovered, so he himself knows about the advantage.

Chris and Scott like the glasses, as there is an essential increase in their vision possibilities, they don't bother too much, how they're looking (they won't look ugly anyway), the advantage of seeing so much better is important, and so accepted with an open mind and heart.

For Philip it's difficult. The step is by far not as big as for his brothers. His Myopia might (I say might ...) increase, with or without glasses. Should his myopia reach 1.5, 2.0 or 2.5 (as his brothers' myopia) in one. two or more years time, he will try on his brothers' glasses from time to time, and then he will ask for adequate glasses.

My recommendation: eye test for him every other 6 months, don't force him to wear them now, he would hate it. If his myopia should grwo, he will ask ...

My best wishes for all of the family ...

Jamie 22 Apr 2016, 13:19

As for the other boys, David does not want to wear them regularly, or at school, but has started wearing them while doing homework. He says they help. He does not want to wear them to school because in his mind his glasses are uncool and his brothers' have the cool ones. He thinks he has grandpa glasses. Chris loved his glasses from the moment he put them on, and keeps them on all the time, he has taken this the best (well, maybe after Trenton). Scott thought his glasses made everything look weird at the begining, but now is wearing them sometimes around the house, and even took them with him to school today, don't know if he will actually wear them. Poor Philip seems to be having the hardest time. He hates the idea of wearing/needing glasses. He has been crying about them, saying he does not want to wear them. He keeps saying he does not need them, and he can see fine without them. Trenton is the opposite, if someone takes them off he starts crying. I took them off earlier to fix the strap, and ibce befire his nap, and I felt like a bad guy.

That is the rundown as of now.

Cactus Jack 22 Apr 2016, 09:51


That is truly wonderful news. I apologize for being slow to respond. Between computer problems and some demanding work I an doing, I have not been able to keep up with computer things.

I thought something like that would happen, but you just can't know how a person, particularly a 1 year old, will react to wearing glasses. When a person needs to wear strong PLUS glasses, everything is seriously out of focus at all distance. Close is the worst of all. I am sure that Trent's toys were just colored blobs to him. Don't be surprised if he does not want you to take his glasses off when he needs to sleep. He is experiencing a world he never knew existed and he does not want that wonderful experience to stop.

Vision is the most critical sense for learning and development. Glasses are simply tools to help fix vision problems. The really wonderful thing is that you took Trent along with the other boys for an exam and discovered that he really didn't see well. That means that corrective action can start immediately rather than waiting a few years. The REALLY important thing is that Amblyopia has been caught in its very early stages. Hopefully, it will be corrected by patching the good eye to make the poorer eye work harder and develop normally. There is a window of opportunity with Amblyopia that typically closes around 6 or 7 when the brain becomes so used to ignoring the poor image from one eye and simply turns off that eye. Even if the image from that eye can be corrected, once the brain has turned it off, we don't know how to get the brain to start using that eye again. There have been a few instances where the brain suddenly started using the bad eye again, but they are rare.

I am looking forward to hearing more about Trent and your other boys and their reaction to being able to see well. I sincerely hope that the contributions made by Soundmanpt, Michael, myself and others have been useful in helping you understand more about vision and optics.


Michael 22 Apr 2016, 08:00

Fantastic news.I am so happy for both you and Trenton. And yes how are your other boys doing with their glasses?I am anxiously waiting for an update.

Soundmanpt 22 Apr 2016, 07:50


That is so good to hear. Of course at the very first Trenton had no idea what was being put on him and he reacted. But as soon as he had a chance to look around with the glasses on he suddenly was excited at seeing everything so clearly. I'm sure he though all this has really bothered you seeing that he could see you and other things had to make you feel so much better about his wearing glasses. How are the other boys doing with their glasses? Have they accepted the idea of wearing glasses or are they complaining about wearing them?

Jamie 22 Apr 2016, 07:33

We picked up Trenton's glasses earlier, and I am speechless. The whole experience was magical. At first when the doctor put them on Trent he started crying, and trying to take them off, but when the doctor fixed them again Trenton was probably the happiest I have ever seen him. He kept looking all around the room, at all of our faces, and was smiling so much! Forget anything I felt before about glasses, I am so thankful for the doctors that got us to this point. My baby can see! I don't know what I would have done if Trenton did not take to his glasses. I am so glad he loves them.

Michael 21 Apr 2016, 17:58

Chris' boyfriend got here and Chris finally put on her glasses.Admitted she sees very well with them but said she doesn't like them and only kept them on for about 10 minutes or so. And off they went and unbelievably she actually put them back in the case which may be a first for her. But she even had an issue getting the glasses to fit into the case but finally figured it out. I was going to ask her if she needed me to help her. I went back into my room now to do some things on the computer but my guess is Chris' glasses will remain in the case for the rest of the night. And she said she won't wear them for driving because she needs her non prescription sunglasses.She didn't get prescription sunglasses because she couldn't afford them after spending about 250.00 on her glasses. She is so addicted to her non prescription sunglasses she will wear them on cloudy days and probably when she drives at night. Not sure about that because I haven't ridden with Chris much at night. But her eyes are very sensitive to light. Before we moved 18 months ago we lived in a 1 room studio apartment which was less than ideal because neither of us had any space. Somehow though we got two beds into the one big room. It was one big room plus a small kitchen and bathroom. The apartment was like an obstacle course. I also had my table with my computer and printer on it with the modem and router on the floor.It was near the bathroom and with the wires she often tripped on them when going to the bathroom and knocked out my Internet. So we had little choice but to move and get a bigger place. Now we each have our own bedroom. We lived together about 4 1/2 years at the old place. And when she went to bed I was up and had to shut off all the lights because she said she can't sleep with any lights on. I don't need lights on to use the computer but she even complained about the glare from my computer monitor.

I don't know a solution to help Chris with driving. She can't afford prescription sunglasses. I wonder if tinting her regular glasses would help. But she really needs glasses to drive.Especially when driving at night.She is lucky we live in a state that doesn't ever require an eye exam when renewing your license or I don't think she would pass. I do recall a specific episode which tells me Chris can't see anything at night. Two years ago I went for surgery and she drove me to the hospital about 5:30 or 6 in the morning when it was still dark. I wasn't paying attention to where she was going thinking she knew how to get to the hospital because she has gone there many times. And then I see we are near Burger King past the town line and that is not close to the hospital. Then I directed her how to get to the hospital. She took my car instead of hers because I have the handicapped pass which makes it easier for parking. If I would have known it was going to be that difficult for her to drive me to the hospital I would have drove myself and then she could have driven the car back home.

Her frame is a heavy black frame.She looks fine in her glasses. Very dignified.I told her that. But her boyfriend told her she looks like a school teacher and I am not sure he should have said that. Personally I would have gone with a metal frame. But Chris thinks if she gets a metal frame the lenses will pop out or the frame will break. I have worn glasses for over 50 years and never one time had lenses pop out. But she has had it happen at least a half dozen times in six years. Maybe even more. I am guessing this kept on happening because of the way she handled her glasses. But she always blamed the place saying her glasses were poorly made. She never accepted any responsibility for the broken glasses.

One thing I did notice is her lenses appear pretty thick.Couldn't get a good enough look at them though.She wouldn't let me try on her glasses but she did let her boyfriend. He told me he couldn't see well with her glasses and I told him he wouldn't because the glasses are not for his eyes.Paul is 47 years old and has recently began to use readers but I told him he needs to go for an eye exam because he complained about having a hard time driving at night and he is having problems reading even normal size print.

One more update. Paul and Chris ordered pizza and told me to get some which I did. And while in the living room Chris did put on her glasses again because she needed to make a couple of phone calls.She was still on the phone when I went back into my room but my guess is when she got off the phone the glasses also came off. I will see how this all plays out in the coming days and weeks. I think it comes down to what is more important to Chris. Is she going to want to be able see or is vanity going to

win out? My guess is usually being able to see wins out but it may take time.

And the last thing Chris should be thinking about now is contacts. Chris getting contacts may be like mixing kerosene with oil. And this is something I could not help her with. If she got contacts she would completely be on her own. I deal with a disability yet I help her with so many things. For Christmas I bought Chris a prepaid smartphone and I had to set the phone up because she wouldn't have a clue.And she always is messing up the TV. A couple of months ago she somehow messed up the remote control so I had to fix it. And a couple of days ago a couple of the stations had no volume. I first had to confirm the problem was not with the stations and once I confirmed that I had to find the source of the problem. And I did. One of the settings I think the SAP got changed so I had to go into the menu of the cable box to fix it. If it wasn't for me she wouldn't have any idea what to do. I am good with trouble shooting electronic devices which is good because Chris sure isn't.But because of my disability there are things she does better than I do like washing clothes.Also she does most of the cleaning. I washed dishes today but that is mostly her job. The garbage I take out most of the time. So I guess we are a good pair because we can help each other out.But neither of us is good with the vacuum cleaner.I think Chris messes up the TV because she tries to do things without wearing her glasses.

Michael 21 Apr 2016, 15:08

Well Chris got home maybe an hour or so ago. And guess what. She was not wearing her glasses. I then asked her if she got her glasses and she said yes.I then said to her I would like to see how she looks in her glasses and her response was not now. Maybe she wants to show her boyfriend her glasses first and not me. I love her but our relationship is platonic. I wonder if the doctor told her not to drive home wearing them. She will never get used to them unless she wears them. She paid a lot of money for the glasses even though insurance covered a lot of it.I can't ever imagine buying a pair of glasses that cost 800.00. Especially that my insurance does not cover eye wear. And she is already talking about getting contacts next year.

Chris may think she can wear contacts part time and go bare eyed the rest of the time. It doesn't work like that. Most people who have contacts wear glasses whenever they aren't wearing their contacts. And I am not sure getting adjusted to multi focal contacts would be easy. I guess she could do monovision but that doesn't work for everybody either. I also think she may have difficulty putting contacts in because she is klutzy. I was born with a mild case of cerebral palsy and I think I am less klutzy then she is. And I don't think I could ever do it because of the poor dexterity in my hands.If something can be broken Chris will break it. I usually don't do dishes. That is her job because most of the dishes are hers.But I saw the sink was full of dishes today so I was a nice guy and washed them. But I saw the thing for the drain was missing. I asked her where it was and she told me it broke. That is the third one that broke since we moved here 18 months ago. The original one plus the two I bought to replace the ones that broke. I am not buying another one even though they only cost about 5.00 each at the hardware store down the street. If she wants another one let her buy it.In my life I never remember a drain stopper ever breaking until Chris and I began living together. Those things I think are made of steel or some other very heavy metal. They should not be breaking. We do have wooden floors so my guess is she must keep on dropping them on the floor and it is with enough force that causes them to break. I even told them at the hardware store the last time I went there that I don't understand why the drain stoppers keep breaking.I never heard of one ever breaking before I met Chris. But somehow whenever I buy one it gets broken in a couple of months. I don't get it. That is why I won't buy any more drain stoppers.

Chris' boyfriend I think will be coming here tonight so then she may get the courage to put on her glasses. After she got home she turned on the TV and no glasses. It appears she talked a good game but actually wearing them is going to be an issue. She is probably very self conscious and doesn't think she looks good in her glasses. Although I am sure she looks fine.Am I surprised with today's developments? Absolutely not because I know Chris and what she does. She has to get the courage to put her glasses on and leave them on. If she won't wear them in front of me and her boyfriend she will never wear them in work. She may even go to work tomorrow with the drugstore readers in her purse that don't help her very much. And leave her new glasses home.She knows she needs to wear them to see well and the doctor said she needs to wear them full time if she wants to see But will Chris wear them? And she will never get used to the progressive lenses if she won't wear the glasses.If she won't wear them it is a complete waste that she even bought them. And just stuck with the drugstore readers.

I will keep you guys updated about Chris and her glasses. The whole thing may turn into a soap opera.And how long will it take her to either lose or break them? With an expensive frame and expensive lenses her glasses should not break if she takes even reasonable care of them.

 21 Apr 2016, 11:48

no it was a long time ago that LikeLenses was outed as LauraC. over and over again. but he pulls up that identity out of his pocket over and over again anyway. he made up this fantasy about seeing her in a restaurant and giving her a pair of glasses, and how she talked with him constantly... it was pure baboonery. people started asking questions, he couldn't answer, wouldn't answer... it became utterly obvious why.

Next we had Cheryl, then June, etc. It's all the same dude with nothing better to do than talk "to himself."

Michael 20 Apr 2016, 18:17

I remember Laura C. Wasn't she a girl who was very nearsighted and avoided wearing glasses unless it was absolutely necessary? Haven't seen anything from her in a few years now. I always wondered if she was a fake.

Michael 20 Apr 2016, 18:09

Likelenses-That girl you used to date sure reminds me of my Chris. I always have wondered two things. One is why they gave her eyeglass cases because Chris never used them. And second why would anybody play the game of constantly putting her glasses on and taking them off? Are they trying to prevent themselves from becoming dependent on them? I know your eyes are going to be what they are whether or not you wear your glasses or not.And Chris always kept her glasses either on top of her head or hanging on her shirt so they would be easily available to her if she needed them. It would have been a pain to keep them in the case and then put them on if she needed them.And constantly putting glasses on and taking them off draws attention. You are much better off just leaving them on if you need to do that I do most of the grocery shopping because shopping with her drove me crazy. While in the store her glasses went on and off maybe 20 times during a shopping trip. That made me nervous.

If Chris only needed glasses for reading I would say just stick with the readers. It would be much cheaper and if she lost them or they broke it wouldn't be a big deal. But her near vision is so poor even the highest powered over the counter readers don't help her that much. She still needs a magnifying glass as well to see small print. And her distance vision isn't good either and finally she is admitting it. She needs to wear her new glasses full time. When Chris asked the doctor if she needs to wear them full time his answer was if you want to see. And she would leave the readers almost anyplace in the apartment and often couldn't find them. That is why she bought a couple of pair because if she couldn't find one pair then she would have an extra pair.

I never asked Chris why she did what she did. But it sure made me nervous. At least now she is admitting she can't see either close or distance. Did you ever ask that girl why she just didn't leave her glasses on instead of doing the on and off thing? I bet it made you as nervous as Chris has made me.

Is there still a psychology of glasses thread? This post probably would belong there. You reach a point when you have little choice but to bite the bullet and Chris has been there for a while now I think. A script doesn't often tell the whole story but watching Chris it is easy to tell she doesn't see very well. And her eyes have to work very hard I would guess to see when she isn't wearing her glasses.Her previous prescription glasses were standard bifocals but she never really used them for distance before she lost or broke them. One of the few times I have ever seen her wear glasses to watch TV is when the Triple Crown is on. She likes horse racing so will always put them on to watch a race to see details.She never has worn glasses to drive. But that may be changing beginning tomorrow. But up to now she avoided wearing glasses unless she absolutely needed them to see something.

 20 Apr 2016, 17:28


Likelenses 20 Apr 2016, 15:29


Your girlfriend Chris reminds me of a girl that I dated some time ago,regarding the use,and care,or lack thereof taken with her glasses.

Laura,was significantly nearsighted,and had a boat load of astigmatism in both eyes.When I would pick her up for a date the glasses were either on the top of her head,laying on the coffee table,or stuffed in her purse without their case. When we walked out of her apartment she was always bare eyed,but after getting in my car,on they went. When arriving at our destination,off they came,and that routine continued throughout the evening.After our date, we usually spent some time watching TV.The glasses were on for viewing,but came off if she got up,to get snacks,or use the bathroom,then back on again for more TV viewing.

From all of this handling those glasses were in the worst condition that I have ever seen.The hinges were so loose that they just flopped opened,or closed,and the ear pieces were misshapen.The lenses were all scratched up,so much,that I wondered how she saw through them.

She worked in a hospital,and had a very responsible position,and only had the one pair of glasses.I often wondered what her coworkers,and patients thought of the condition of those glasses,and the peculiar wearing habits.

I do not remember her squinting without them,but with their strength she most likely did.

Michael 20 Apr 2016, 10:01

Here is Chris' script for your info which I posted about 10 days ago in the New Glasses thread.

OD Sphere +1.50 Cylinder -.50 Axis 80 Add +2.00

OS Sphere +2.75 Cylinder -.75 Axis 95 Add +2.00

And for comparison here is her script from March 2014.

OD Sphere +1.00 Cylinder -.50 Axis 75 Add +2.00

OS Sphere +3.00 Cylinder -1.25 Axis 100 Add +2.00

Doesn't appear to me her vision has changed that much from two years ago.But in my opinion most people with her script would have been wearing glasses full time all along.

Michael 20 Apr 2016, 09:36

Just an update on my roommate Christine. Her new glasses are in and she will collect them tomorrow. She can't go today because the place is closed on Wednesday so she will go tomorrow after work. She could have gone yesterday but she had to wash clothes which she should have done on Monday when she was off from work but that is another matter. Chris doesn't always do what she should when she should do it.

But getting back to Chris and her glasses I am anxious to see how it all will play out. I think she knows the deal. The doctor told her she needs to wear them full time if she wants to be able to see. She has already told some people she needs to wear glasses all day so it seems like she has accepted it. Now lets see what happens when she gets her glasses tomorrow. I offered to go with her but she will go directly from work. I told her not to be afraid to ask them questions and when she gets home if she has any questions to ask me and I will try to answer them as best as I can. What I don't know is if she has told anybody in work she is getting new glasses that she is supposed to wear all day long. If she did it may make things a little easier for her.She always has been in denial about her vision. She used to tell people even without being prompted that she only needed glasses to read small print. Which might have been the case 10 years ago but certainly not now. Now she is telling people her eyes are bad. How much she can see who knows? But when she had her last eye exam two years ago and saw her script I felt she should wear them full time but could never tell her that especially when the doctor never said anything to her. This time she decided to go to a different place. This doctor couldn't figure out how Chris could drive without glasses. But CT is one of the few states where you never have to pass an eye exam to renew your license.

When she told me how much her glasses cost I almost flipped. About 800 dollars. But I think all of it is covered by insurance but about 250.00 which she has to pay. She told me the lenses were over 500.00 and the frame over 200.00. She obviously got the premium progressive lenses and they do cost that much. Plus an expensive frame. Are the more expensive lenses easier to adjust to? They must provide clearer vision at all distances than the standard ones do. Where I went for my glasses they never asked me what kind of progressive lenses I wanted. So mine I think are the standard ones. I last got new glasses in 2014 and my lenses I think were like 200.00 and my frame was about 85.00. Total bill was 285.00.

She also went for a plastic frame. When she got a metal frame in the past the lenses kept popping out. But I think that had more to do with how she handled her glasses than anything else. I have worn glasses for over 50 years and never once in my life did lenses ever pop out and she has had it happen numerous times in the last 6 years or so since she got her first prescription glasses. For the past number of years I have opted for metal frames because for whatever reason the plastic frames constantly slipped down my nose and no matter how many times I would try to get them adjusted it still kept on happening. But she said her frame has spring hinges so hopefully she won't have a problem with her glasses slipping.

And if she wears them full time like she is supposed to she won't lose her glasses and the chances that they will break will also lessen significantly I would think. But Chris may be the worst person I have ever seen with glasses. She is as good as anybody as far as losing or breaking them. I would bet on a 8 year old who never wore glasses before to have less problems than Chris always seems to run into.

She seems worried that she will look dorky with glasses and dorky was the word she used. But I am sure she will look great. I asked her if somebody there helped her pick out the frame and she said they did. But Chris' poor vision was very obvious to me and probably to other people as well. She does squint a lot and seems sensitive to light.And when she is home to read something she often uses her readers and a magnifying glass to be able to see.Chris' vision is at a point where even if she gets the most powerful over the counter readers they aren't going to help her that much.She always has been great about putting on glasses to read something and then taking them right off.Cactus Jack and others here have often said that constantly putting glasses and taking them off makes you more conspicuous than just leaving them on. I totally agree with that. Plus I don't think she needs to read much in her job so over the course of a 8 hour workday she never wore her glasses much at work. She would keep them on either the top of her head or hanging from her shirt and that is asking for trouble. Either the glasses will get stretched out or will fall and maybe break. Chris wearing her glasses full time should alleviate that problem. And now she is admitting to people her distance vision is bad too. And her close vision has been bad for a number of years. Christine is 54 years old.She told me when they checked her distance vision she could read almost none of the letters especially with her left eye which is her weak eye. She told me everything was completely blurry with that eye and a little less blurry with her right. She knows now her vision is bad and needs to wear her glasses.But shouldn't she have been able to figure that out without a doctor saying something? My experience is most of them don't advise you when to wear glasses unless you specifically ask.But this doctor laid it right out to Chris which I think is good.

I will keep you guys updated as to what happens when she gets her glasses. But I think she is going to notice a huge improvement in her vision at all distances when she gets her new glasses and begins wearing them and will want to wear them. At least I hope so. Not that I necessarily want her to wear glasses full time but I know she needs to wear them in order to see. And glasses for women as others have often pointed out can be a fashion accessory.

Michael 19 Apr 2016, 17:52

Jamie- I will be very interested in hearing how everything works out with your children and their glasses. As Cactus Jack said you will have your hands full over the next few days.

Cactus Jack 19 Apr 2016, 09:51


Expert is greatly overstating the case. As I have said many times, I am not an Eye Care Professional, but an Amateur in the original French sense.

Here is what I think will happen and my suggestions.

David has mild Hyperopia and his glasses have a + prescription. Hyperopia is the ONLY condition that can be internally corrected, often without even being aware that they are doing it. I suspect his first reaction will be that they make his distance vision worse or have no effect. They may make it easier to read and do close work. He really should wear his glasses full time, but it may be best to not force him. I suspect he will decide on his own when he wants to wear them.

When David uses his Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses (his auto-focus system) to correct his Hyperopia, he is using up some of his Accommodation to see distant things clearly and even more Accommodation to read or focus close. At 9, he should have plenty of Accommodation to deal with that. However, as he gets older, Presbyopia will start causing him problems. The idea that Presbyopia does not happen until 40 is a myth. Presbyopia actually starts in childhood, but does not become a problem until you are much older.

It is possible that David’s + prescription may decrease as he grows. That will probably not happen with the children that need - glasses.

Chris and Scott should wear their glasses full time. I think they will notice immediate improvement in their vision and will probably be pleasantly surprised at what they have been missing. It may take a week or two to really get used to the improved vision. Vision actually occurs in the brain and the brain has amazing image processing abilities. It can actually correct some poor images if it knows what something is supposed to look like. Astigmatism, corrected by Cylinder and Axis, causes distorted images to be delivered to the brain. It is used to correcting the images as best it can. With the glasses, particularly with Scott, the images are corrected by the glasses, but the brain will continue trying to correct the images until it learns that it is no longer necessary. For a while some things will look funny to them while their brains reprograms itself. When I got my first glasses the ceiling corners of rooms looked funny. I knew that the corners were actually “square”, but they walls and ceiling looked like they were meeting at an angle. The fastest way for them to get used to having good vision is to wear their glasses full time.

It is possible that Chris may initially have some close focusing problems with his glasses. His prescription means that his myopia is pretty close to the effect of having “built-in” reading glasses. He is not used to using his focusing muscles to focus close. It is likely that his Ciliary Muscles are weak. Normally, the Ciliary (focusing) Muscles are the strongest muscles in the body for their size. Chris and maybe Scott, may have focusing trouble until their Ciliary Muscles get stronger. it takes a few weeks.

Philip may be able to get by without his glasses, but I suspect he will want to do what his big brothers are doing.

Nick may want to join the crowd and get some glasses too. He may want to try on Philips glasses, but may be reluctant to give them back.

You are going to have your hands full for a few days until the “new” wears off. They will be trying each others glasses and discovering a lot about optics without understanding how it works.

Please let me know what happens. But the way, if you want to contact me privately, my email is


Jamie 19 Apr 2016, 07:24

The older kids' glasses just got in, going to take them to get their glasses after school today. Hope it all goes well.

Cavtus Jack

You seem to be the expert around here, so I woul appreciate your thoughts on how,often/when tgey should,wear their glasses.

Can't belive this is happening. 4/6 of ny kids are glasses today, and little Trent is going to be getting his soon enough.

 17 Apr 2016, 00:01

Michael: you were asking yesterday what happens if you post without a nickname. The answer is: THIS!

love and kisses, Jules.


Spexy guys are sexy guys

Michael 16 Apr 2016, 18:49

astigmaphile-Agree completely.I wish they could block the IP addresses of the trolls so that they can't post here. But if they made you sign up before posting it would make things better. I know what the trolls do. They use the names of regular posters or don't use a name at all. They do that to try to disguise themselves. And they also keep on changing their name. One advantage of having to sign up is you would have the same screen name all the time.

astigmaphile 16 Apr 2016, 15:23


The trolls bother me, too. Not only are they rude, they have posted under my user name and other people's. It is obvious by the content that the postings are not from me or other regular users.

Michael 16 Apr 2016, 10:35

Soundmanpt- I forgot that about Jennifer getting a prescription for glasses two years ago with a script of .50 for each eye. Now that you mention it I do remember. But with a script that small I can understand why she didn't fill it. She could get by very easily without glasses.Probably just about the only thing they would have helped her with would have been driving especially at night or in inclement weather conditions.

Michael 16 Apr 2016, 10:27

Jamie- I am glad it isn't a big deal to you that people troll. It is only a handful of people but I still find it upsetting. You would think they would have better things to do with their time.But I don't know how it is possible that all of your children have eye problems of varying degrees. It is easy to blame it on bad genes but from what you told us it doesn't appear that there is a history of eye problems in either your family or your husband's that would be out of the ordinary.

MIchael 16 Apr 2016, 10:18

Melyssa-Eyescene is just about the only site I am aware of where you don't have to register in order to post messages.

Melyssa 16 Apr 2016, 08:23

Astigmaphile and Michael, I agree with you 200% that registration would be better than having these no-name Pittsburgh Penqueens fans trolling here. They do that on, but they still have to register to comment.

Jamie, I hope everything turns out okay for Trenton. As for genes, my parents and grandparents (my mother's parents at least, because my father's parents were long gone before I came along) all wore glasses, which probably is why I got my referee-like poor vision starting about age 8.

Soundmanpt 16 Apr 2016, 07:53

It's really quite easy to understand how Jennifer got so dependent on her glasses so quickly. Jennifer did comment in an earlier post that she had her eyes examined about 2 years ago and at that time she was prescribed -.50 for glasses but she didn't bother getting glasses at the time because she didn't feel like she really needed them and she clearly doesn't like wearing glasses. Of course only being -.50 she was able to get by rather easily without glasses. But as we all know her eyes weren't going to remain at -.50 and over the past 2 years her eyesight has deteriorated at about the rate one might expect from year to year. Only this time when she got her eyes examined she realized that she needed to get glasses even if she didn't want to. I have a feeling that she may at the time thought that she would be able to get by with only wearing them at certain times, but once she put them on and she saw what she had missing it made it very hard for her to want to take her glasses off anymore. So of course the more she wore them the quicker her eyes were getting fully adjusted to them and now when she would take her glasses off everything was far more blurry than it seemed to be before she got her glasses. The reason she needed an increase so quickly was mostly because refracting her eyes was difficult because at the time the lenses the doctor out in front of her face did seem to give her 20/20 vision and like you say doctors never want to over correct the eyes. But once her eyes started adjusting to her glasses she soon realized that they needed to be slightly stronger. So her re exam was much more accurate than the first one even though it was only a week or so apart. Sadly she has opted for contacts which is a bad word in here but she is still a teen and worried about her social life and what impact her wearing glasses would have. She didn't wear her glasses long enough to accept that she is every bit as attractive wearing glasses as she is without glasses. But if a boyfriend were to tell her how good she looks wearing glasses she might go back to wearing her glasses and forget she has contacts.

Jamie 16 Apr 2016, 07:45

Thanks for standing up for me guys, but it is not a big deal. The no name user is right, Trenton's biggest problem is his genes, but my husband is not just some sperm doner, he is their father. You may not like the name Trenton, but it has a very special meaning for my husband and me, and a beautiful meaning in general.

Michael 16 Apr 2016, 07:10

Puffin-You may be right that some people don't want to take the time to sign up. Even though it usually takes no more than a minute or two to do so. I belong to many survey and online forum sites and don't find it a big deal or time consuming to sign up. But neglecting these people sounds like a good plan because they are looking for a reaction and when they don't get it it defeats the purpose of trolling in the first place and they will go away. At least I hope they will.

Michael 16 Apr 2016, 06:58

Julian- I have a question for you that you may have the answer to because you have been here a long time. If you post without using a ES nickname doesn't it show up as Guest instead of no name at all? I have seen posts before with the name Guest but that may be people using that as their nickname.

But getting to your original point I can't see why they can't get rid of the trolls. It may involve just blocking an IP address.Would that be difficult to do?

A number of years ago I was permanently expelled from a sports message board site because the moderator thought I was too negative. I might have been negative at times but I thought in online forums you could express opinions as long as you didn't attack anybody personally.Which I never did. And there were times people attacked me personally and they were allowed to post and I wasn't. Which wasn't fair. And I never took a personal attack on any poster or player. It had to be my IP address which was blocked.

Because after I was expelled I tried to sign up again using my roommate's e-mail address and wasn't able to do so.

What bothers me more than anything else is Jamie with all she is going through right now doesn't need to see things like this. I wonder why people troll in the first place. My guess is they are looking for a reaction. They always say don't feed the trolls which means neglect them.And then eventually they will go away.

Julian 16 Apr 2016, 03:59

Actually, there was a period between 1999 and 2001 when you did have to register to be a member of EyeScene. It was possible to post as a 'Guest' and (for the first 20 or so posts) as a 'Junior Member' - I wonder whether a troll could be excluded.

Puffin 16 Apr 2016, 02:43

The problem with registration is that when someone comes here just to ask a few questions and nothing else, registration could put them off.

It's best to ignore the idiots. There's always plenty of them.

Michael 15 Apr 2016, 20:08

astigmaphile- I agree with you 100%.I can't believe there are people who don't have better things to do with their time.It is a few people who try to ruin it for the rest of us.

astigmaphile 15 Apr 2016, 15:52

It is time that Eyescene users had to register if they want to post. Vision and Specs requires this and there are less problems there.

Michael 15 Apr 2016, 14:49

DS- I totally agree with you about doctors in general. Many people are looking for advice and guidance and doctors don't always offer it. In this case with Trenton I have read nothing that suggests one treatment method works better than another.It may be one of those deals where one method works for one person and another works for somebody else. But doctors will explore every other treatment option before considering surgery. Jamie can't be afraid to ask the doctors questions.As you said they know the whole situation which none of us do. You have to trust the doctors. We still can try to help out Jamie but the doctors may be her best source for info because they have all the facts. But in the past I have found some doctors to be intimidating which made me afraid to ask questions. Unfortunately I think there are doctors out there who don't want to be challenged and may consider it an insult if a patient asks questions. I know because I experienced this in the past and on more than one occasion. There were at least a couple of times when I asked a doctor a question and he gave me either an insulting or sarcastic reply. Which I didn't appreciate. Some doctors have terrible bedside manners.There is more to being a doctor than just knowing your stuff.

I agree with you about patching that it wouldn't be for the whole day.But getting Trenton to wear the patch for even a couple of hours a day might be a challenge.

Michael 15 Apr 2016, 14:27

I guess you can post without a ES nickname. Couldn't somebody just block the IP address of that person so he or she can't post here?

Michael 15 Apr 2016, 14:22

Why is somebody trolling here?Jamie is dealing with some serious issues and we don't need somebody making fun of the situation.Some of us here are trying to help out Jamie but we have a person making insulting comments. Completely uncalled for. Is there a way to delete the messages or to prevent that person from posting again? Maybe not but I wish there was. I love Eyescene and have learned so much from the experts here. But unfortunately we still run into people who are trying to ruin things for everybody who posts here. Earlier this week I saw somebody taking attacks on Cactus Jack which was so wrong. He has done nothing but help out a lot of people who have posted here. He has never misrepresented himself in any way. And with his background he has a lot of knowledge which he is willing to share. I have learned so much from him.

 15 Apr 2016, 12:36

Why Trenton for a name? Camden was taken?

 15 Apr 2016, 12:05

The biggest problems with Trent's vision is the crappy genes you and the sperm donor passed on.

DS 15 Apr 2016, 10:58


I suspect that the biggest problem with Trenton's vision is that excess focusing to overcome the natural farsightedness causes the eyes to converge, or cross, as if reading up close. This would cause double vision since the eyes wouldn't be aligned on the target. The difference in prescription between the two eyes is also a factor in presenting two distinct images to the brain. The brain has a way to handle this-- it rejects one of the two images and forces vision to be processed out of one eye only.

The good news is that Trenton's vision has been screened early and can be managed/corrected. Farsightedness and the associated eye turn is quite common. No shame anywhere, and quite positive that this is discovered early before possible/likely permanent vision loss. I hope you aren't feeling too much anxiety. Your children are getting great care!

Don't be afraid to ask for more information from the doctors. If you need more info from the ophthalmologist, call and ask. (And don't feel intimidated. You have permission ask for his professional recommendation on which course of treatment would provide the best outcome. Doctors should never just put choices out there without as much supporting information as possible, given that the doc has all the experience.) It sounds like you may need more info on the patching. I don't think this would be "all day" patching... probably a couple of hours a day, manageable within the home setting, and not as bad as you may envision.

Also, if you want to feed info from the ophthalmologist visit back to the optometrist and get an updated opinion based on the additional findings, call and talk. Just because the exam is over you don't have to feel like you are finished.

Finally, remember that noone here or elsewhere on the Internet has complete facts. Trust and rely on your doctors!

Michael 15 Apr 2016, 10:23

One more thing I forgot to say. Your husband could have asked the doctor just how bad Trenton's eyes are.I don't think he is almost blind. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but a person isn't considered to be legally blind unless their corrected vision is 20/200 or worse in their better eye. And by corrected vision I mean vision wearing either glasses or contacts.

Now I will wait for other people to chime in. Will be curious what they have to say. Jamie you sure are dealing with a full plate right now aren't you? I say try the patch first unless Cactus Jack has other ideas. He has been busy lately and am sure he will write when he gets a chance to.But in the meantime some of us here are trying to help you.

Michael 15 Apr 2016, 10:04


You are so right.Glasses and an eye patch both are going to draw attention.And thank you for sharing the info about Trenton. My guess is after what you have told us there is at least going to be a decent chance that Trenton is not going to tolerate the eye patch. And don't blame yourself for not noticing Trenton's eye turning in. You would have had no reason to notice his eye but now you are conscious of it because you realize he has a problem.

And as for what Trenton's uncorrected vision is I don't think there is a way to find out. Children have very good accommodation so they can overcome a decent amount of farsightedness. But Trenton's script is certainly high. I wish I could give you a more definitive answer.

I did some research a couple of years ago when I was trying to analyze my roommate Christine's vision. I wanted to take her script which is a combination of farsightedness, astigmatism and presbyopia and convert it into a 20/20 format. But it can't be done. I then wrote to Cactus Jack and he said the same thing. It may have something to do with accommodation. The older you get the less accommodation you have and that is why almost everybody needs at least reading glasses by their mid 40's. All Cactus Jack told me about Chris' vision was most people with her script would wear it full time but I pretty much knew that already once I saw it.

That may be an issue with David and his glasses. 9 year olds have very good accommodation so he may be able to overcome his farsightedness at its present level and doesn't show any obvious vision problems. But as he gets older even if his farsightedness doesn't get worse it will be harder and harder to do. He will reach a point when it will be more and more difficult for him to see clearly without glasses especially close up.He could have vanity issues and not want to wear his glasses in school especially if none of his friends wear glasses. Plus he may still see pretty well without glasses. He hasn't had any issues in school that may be vision related that you are aware of has he? I got glasses at about David's age but the difference was I was nearsighted and he is farsighted. And somehow I got away with wearing them at school even though I was supposed to until high school although I did wear them sometimes at home when watching TV and when I studied especially when I did so for an extended period of time. I remember the doctor told my mother I didn't need to wear them all the time but was supposed to wear them in school except for PE class and for activities when you needed good distance vision like going to movies, attending sporting events and TV. My doctor wouldn't have probably said anything but my mother always made sure she asked him when I should wear my glasses. That made me nervous because I was afraid he might have said full time.She had no clue I didn't wear my glasses in school all those years. As it was she nagged me a lot at home when I wasn't wearing my glasses when she thought I should be. She often would say Michael put your glasses on but I often didn't if I thought I could get by without them.

I apologize for getting off the subject here but I brought all of this up because of David. It may not be easy for you to get him to wear them especially if he thinks he can get by without them. One thing you could do which my mother I don't think ever did is notify David's teacher when he gets his glasses.That way he or she would be aware that David is supposed to be wearing them in school.

Michael 15 Apr 2016, 09:09


I did some reading on the subject because to be honest I don't know much about strabismus which is crossed eyes.I tend to agree with Soundmanpt about trying the patch first after I did some research. As for the eye drops I had no clue either but did read the purpose would be to blur the vision in the good eye which kind of is stupid to me. The patch would serve the same purpose covering the stronger eye and forcing the person to use the weak eye.

But I did read that treatments range from drops, patching, visual training which I assume to be eye exercises, corrective eye wear which in this case is glasses and surgery is only an option in either very severe cases or if everything else fails. And the sooner you can begin treatment the better the chances it will be successful.

I am still thinking about why your pediatrician did the vision screening for all of your children. You should be very thankful to him for doing it no matter what the reason was.My guess is he did it for one of two reasons. He either saw a red flag when looking into your children's eyes or since it was the first time you brought your children to this doctor he just decided to do it. I know when I was a kid my doctor didn't do a vision screening when my mother brought me for a physical or shots or whatever.

And don't blame yourself for not picking up that all your children have vision problems. The teachers didn't either and they are trained professionals. And if somebody is farsighted unless it is severe enough to affect distance vision the vision screenings done in school will not pick up on that.That was probably the case with David.

I feel bad that you have so much on your plate right now. Dealing with Trenton is more than enough. But now you have to worry about your other boys getting glasses and whether they will want to wear them. And what to do if anything if they refuse to wear them. You and your husband getting fake glasses might work but if you haven't had eye exams in the last 2 or 3 years maybe you should get them now just in case either of you needs glasses which probably isn't the case.

Sorry to hear you have been feeling under the weather. I know you wanted to be there for Trenton's eye exam and you really had to be sick not to go. We now need Cactus Jack's expert opinion. I have tried to help you as best as I can but he may be able to shed some light on both the eye drops and what to do if Trenton does not tolerate the eye patch.

Likelenses idea of the mittens sounds interesting but not sure it will work. Trenton may just take off the mittens and then after he does that take off the eye patch. Distracting his attention sounds like a better idea and the key to that would be to make him forget he is wearing it. Hopefully it won't be that uncomfortable.But maybe you will luck out and he will tolerate the patch and you won't have to resort to finding a way for him to keep it on.

But some of your issues seem to be questions that might be best answered by a child psychologist and not an eye care professional. Getting a child to do something they don't want to do isn't easy.With an older child you can try bribery which I don't necessarily advocate but at times you become desperate. But offering an incentive like buying a special gift or doing a special activity with them might work. But Trenton is way to young to try to negotiate a deal with.But maybe it would work with David to try to get him to wear his glasses.My fear is if David refuses to wear his glasses your other children may as well because I am sure they all look up to their big brother and will follow his lead.

I wish I could help you more than I have but I am not a MD even though those are my initials.You may have to wait for Cactus Jack to respond because he is the expert around here.

Jamie 15 Apr 2016, 08:37

Thanks for the input guys. I have been looking around myself, and am leaning more towards the patching too. The only thing that was making me think the drops would be a good idea is that the patch would draw more attention to him, but let's face it patch or no patch the glasses will draw enough attention as it is. Hopefully he will keep his glasses on though. I have tried putting sweatbands on him in the past, and he hates anything on his face or head. Now that I know what to look for, I have noticed that when Trenton drinks out of his bottle his eye seems tibgo towards his nose. How did I not notice that earlier. What kind of mother would not notice something like that? Is Trenton almost blind? How had is his eyesight? How much can he see?


As for the other boys, their glasses come next week, not today. Their doctor had said in about two weeks.

Soundmanpt 15 Apr 2016, 07:26


One big thing Trenton has going for him is the fact that he is so young. Catching things like that tends to work for the younger kids and the younger the better. Personally patching has been used for many years and the results seem good for young kids. To be honest I don't know anything about how the drops work? Maybe Cactus Jack can shed some light on that option. Trenton might not object as much as you might think because right now his eyesight is making it very difficult for him to watch cartoons on TV and now with his glasses he should rather quickly understand that with the glasses he will be able to see the TV much better.

So am I right that today is the day the other boys get their glasses? It will be interesting to see how they will react to wearing glasses. That could be a struggle for you. If they are momma's boys then you may need to buy a pair of fake glasses to wear to encourage them to wear their glasses. If their more daddy's boys then your husband should consider finding some fake glasses for the same reason. This has been proven to work. Sorry to hear that your sick and of course you didn't need that to happen now either with everything else going on in your life.

Likelenses 14 Apr 2016, 21:25


Since the doctor said that the tendency for the eye to move in is SLIGHT,I would go with the patching.

Any drug put in to the body should only be a last resort.There are always side effects to any drug.

When you first start to use the patch,it may be a good idea to put a pair of mittens on his hands before the patch. The idea here is the mittens will be a distraction,and he most likely will try to take them off before trying to remove the patch.

If all goes well for the first week,then try putting on only the patch.If he tries to remove it,go back to the mittens.

Also right after putting on the patch ,try to distract his attention,but getting him involved in something that he likes,perhaps a snack,or a plaything that you know he enjoys.

Michael 14 Apr 2016, 15:55

Did the doctor think one would be easier than the other? Doesn't sound like a great choice to me. Putting drops in a kids eye doesn't sound easy because he may not let you do it You may wind up with more drops on the floor or on his clothes than in his eye. And he might not tolerate the patch. If he was older you might be able to make a little game out of it and make him think he was a pirate. And possibly offer him some incentive if he kept the patch on. All I can say is good luck. I hate it when doctors offer options and don't give you any advice how to do what they say. It isn't easy.

Thank god I never had kids. I was born with a slight case of cerebral palsy that mainly affects my hands especially fine dexterity. With my hands there is no way I could put drops in anybody's eyes especially a 1 year old. That is why contact lenses never would have been an option for me. With my hands I never would be able to put them in and take them out. I love it when people say something is easy but they don't deal with a disability like I have my entire life. I remember how hard it was for my mother to teach me how to zip a zipper and button a jacket and tie shoes. Eventually I figured it out but even though I was very young I remember how frustrated she got with me. To this day I don't tie shoes like a normal person does but at least I can tie them the way I do it.

I can do a lot of things very well and consider myself very intelligent but I have to accept it there are going to be things I can't do or at least do very well because of my disability.

But getting back to Trenton again I don't know what I would do. Neither option sounds great. You may need a child psychologist to help you with this and believe me that is way beyond my expertise. Did the doctor think one option might be a little easier than the other or is he just leaving it up to you? What does your husband think? I guess if one option doesn't work they will want to try the other one. Surgery like it always is would be a last resort.

I wish I could help you more with this. I will be waiting to see what others here have to say. All I will say is whatever you do I hope it works out for you, your husband and Trenton.I wish you the best of luck.

Jamie 14 Apr 2016, 15:19

Well, my husband had to take Trenton to his appointmnet because I got really sick. He siad the doctor said his left eye has a slight tendency to move in, and that we will have to either oatch or use some eye drops to help it out. He also reexamined Trenton's prescription, and his new one is higher than what the other doctor found, it is +7.75, and +9.75. His glasses should be ready the monday after the other boys'. I am completly in over my head with all this, and do not even know where to start. There is so much all at once. Now the patching or drops, I do not know what to do. The doctor said we can chose one to start with, moniter the progress, and see if we need to try the other, or the option I do not even want to think about, surgery. What do you guys think?

Michael 13 Apr 2016, 14:35


I agree with you about Trenton.I doubt seriously the script from the pediatric opthalmologist will be much different from the script he was prescribed by the other doctor.

But as to what to do if they refuse to wear their glasses that one is completely out of my league. Thank god I never had children because I would have no clue what to do.A great question for Jamie to ask the doctor. It might work out better that they all are getting glasses at the same time but if one doesn't want to wear his glasses the others might not want to either.I know Cactus Jack said not to push David who is the oldest to wear his glasses and I understand why he said that but that may make his younger siblings not to as well although their eye issues might be completely different from David's.

Cactus Jack has always said you can't make somebody wear their glasses which is true but that may only apply to adults.Although I got glasses when I was 9 and was supposed to wear them in school and never did until I was in high school and my mother had no clue I didn't till the day she died.I remember she made me bring them to school and I kept them in the case in my pants pocket but I don't think I took them out even once in about 6 years. I may have worn them when I first got them which would have been 4th grade I guess but kids teased me and then I stopped wearing them. I used to even find ways to cheat on the vision screenings in school. One of my eyes was much better than the other so it wasn't really that difficult to cheat.

Now I am dealing with my roommate Christine.I wrote about her a few days ago in the New Glasses thread.She went for an eye exam last Thursday and was prescribed progressive lenses which she is supposed to wear full time. Which was a shock to her even though she had standard bifocals before but she never used them other than for reading and then would take them right off after she was done reading whatever she was.

She seems to accept this which is a good sign but this is Chris we are talking about. She also gave me her script and I made a copy of it and I also had a copy of her last script which was from a different doctor two years ago and the scripts were pretty similar so it doesn't appear her eyes changed very much. Last time I found her script while she was in work and borrowed it to make a copy for my records.It is good I did that so I have something now to compare it to.

I wanted it two years ago so I could write here which I did. I still remember what Cactus Jack told me. He told me even though most people with Chris' script would wear it full time not to push her about it And I never did. I just let wear her glasses when she wanted to wear them which wasn't often at all. And her job I don't think involves much reading so most of the day I think her glasses are off.

Chris should be getting her new glasses in a few days I would imagine. Maybe around the beginning of next week. Then the fun will begin.

She told me that no other doctor ever told her she needs glasses full time even though she has has bifocals for about 6 years. Chris is now 54 years old. I asked Chris how old she was when she first started using over the counter readers and she said she was about 40. I met Chris for the first time about 9 years ago when we both worked together at Wal Mart. And she was using readers back then.

I am worried about Chris with the progressive lenses. She is a very impatient person so I wonder If she will get frustrated with them right away.I got my first progressives at about 45 and adjusted to them pretty easily from what I remember.But at that point I was pretty much full time anyway with my distance glasses so wearing progressives full time was not really a big deal. And now I am 62 soon to be 63 in May.

The doctor was shocked she could drive without glasses.I always wondered the same thing.But wouldn't you have thought when Chris got her first bifocals about 6 years ago they would have said something to her about when to wear them instead of just giving her the glasses and sending her on her merry way which apparently is what happened.

If a doctor never suggested she wear them full time I certainly couldn't tell her to. Chris' left eye is weaker than her right and I think she was getting by using her right eye. Always remember what Cactus Jack says. If their are differences in the vision between the two eyes the brain will choose the sharper image. But now it appears that the vision in Chris' right eye which is her good eye is slightly worse now than it was two years ago. Which would seem to me it makes it harder to compensate for her left eye.

If I ever suggested to Chris to wear glasses full time she would say to me what you are an eye doctor now. No but I do know a little something about eyeglass prescriptions thanks in part to Cactus Jack, you and some of the other experts on Eyescene. I have been a lurker here for over 10 years but have not written often.

But now that the doctor told her she needs to wear her glasses full time that is a different ballgame.The first thing she told me when she got home on Thursday is her eyes are bad. In reality they aren't that bad but bad enough for her to benefit from full time wear.She also told me she couldn't read almost any of the letters on the wall. She said with one eye which I guess is her left everything was completely blurry and with her other eye only a little blurry.She said something about 20/70 but don't know if that is her right eye or left. Also asked Cactus Jack two years ago if he could estimate Chris' uncorrected distance vision and he said it is almost impossible when somebody has a plus script with astigmatism. I wanted to compare her vision to mine and I have a plus script for distance as well and my vision appears better than hers and I wear progressives full time. I wanted to gauge what she can see but I guess that is next to impossible.And her astigmatism which isn't that much still is enough to affect both her close and distance vision.

I would think if Chris wears her glasses full time like the doctor told her to she will notice a big improvement in her distance vision and want to wear her glasses.But nothing ever goes smoothly for Chris so I don't expect this to either.I will keep you informed what happens after Chris gets her glasses. I will give her all the encouragement I can and hope she she asks the doctor questions when she picks them up. Plus I also told her if she has any questions she can ask me and I will try my best to answer any questions she may have. I may not be an expert but I do feel I know quite a bit about this subject.

Soundmanpt 13 Apr 2016, 09:16


I am glad to see that Cactus Jack, Micheal and Likelenses have been working to provide you with answers as best as they can. In answer to your question about Trenton getting a different prescription from the pediatric ophthalmologist I would have to assume that it would only be a slight adjustment from what he was already prescribed. But I think you will get answers which is what you really want at this time. It will be interesting to see how well your other sons are going to take to the idea of wearing glasses. It actually might be a help that they all are going to be wearing glasses. It could be worse if just one got them. But if only one starts complaining it could lead to all of them rejecting wearing glasses. When you take your boys to get their glasses if you get a chance you might want to ask what you do if they refuse to wear their glasses?

Jamie 12 Apr 2016, 20:26

Cactus Jack

Thank for responding. I will posy timorrow with updates, hope all goes well. What will the doctor tomorrow ideally look for? The dictor we went to last week said Trenton may get a new prescription, do you think that is a possibility?


Thank you, always for being so kind. Maybe that is why the doctor checked their eyes.


Their numbers are quite different, did notvthibj they had about the same vision. Good to know, I guess.

Likelenses 12 Apr 2016, 19:32


It is interesting that the prescriptions of Scott,and Chris are quite different.One has a fair amount of myopia,and low astigmatism,and the other has a fair amount of astigmatism,and low myopia.

But the numbers would indicate that without glasses both would see about the same,even though they are two years apart.Also both are quite strong prescriptions ,for first ones.

Michael 12 Apr 2016, 19:01

Just stay calm as Cactus Jack said and wait to see what the pediatric opthalmologist says. And good luck. And I asked about the pediatrician because from what I recall my pediatrician when I was a child never did a vision screening. I am now 62 years old so that was a long time ago. I got my first glasses when I was 9 years old and didn't pass my vision screening they gave each year at school. So my mother took me to the eye doctor and was prescribed glasses for nearsightedness. I do wonder when your pediatrician looked into your children's eyes with the light and I am sure he did he may have seen things that looked like red flags so that is why he did vision screenings for your children.Just guessing on my part.And remember we are all here for support and will to try to answer your questions as best as we can.

Cactus Jack 12 Apr 2016, 17:16


There is no way for me to know from here, but hopefully, the ECP was just erring on the side of caution. The most obvious clue that a very young child is having vision problems is a tendency for the eyes to cross or turn inward or converge.. This is caused by excessive effort to focus.

It is normal for your eyes to turn inward or converge when you focus close, if they didn't you would see double anytime you tried to read, There is even a connection in everyone's brain between the Focus Control System and the Eye Positioning System. The strength of this connection varies among individuals so not everyone who needs PLUS glasses eyes try to cross, but many people whose eyes try to cross or turn inward also need PLUS glasses.

If, for now, we assume that Trenton has some vision problems. The best chance of managing it or fixing it is now. Many times fixing it typically means either glasses, eye exercises, or eye muscle surgery. Discovering any problems at Trenton's young age means that fixing the problem is likely to be something that will last him for the rest of his life.

Your Pediatric Ophthalmologist has plenty of experience in dealing with vision problems in children. I am certain he/she will offer you guidance on what actions you need to take, if any. I wish you, Trenton and the rest of your children. Please stay in touch. We are interested in the findings and the Ophthalmologists recommendations. We are happy to try to help and offer advice within the scope of our limited knowledge.

I would suggest that you try to keep your cool. Your children are hypersensitive to you and your husbands demeanor. You have to keep your cool around all your children and keep them informed with the truth. Children are tougher and more resilient than we think. It is best to share as much information as possible with them, but it must be in terms that make sense to them. I have the best luck dealing with younger people by treating them with respect and treating them like they are a few years older than they are.

I wish you and Trenton very well tomorrow, and am anxious to hear what the Ophthalmologist says.


Jamie 12 Apr 2016, 15:11

Cactus Jack,

Thank you for the information. Trenton's appointment is with a pediatric Ophthalmologist. Is this appointment going to be different than the one we went to last week? If so, what different things will be done? Do all babies who need glasses have to go to a Pediatric Ophthalmologist, or is Trenton a special case?


This was our first time with this particullar pediatrician, so not sure if he noticed sonething or just always checks.

I am so nervous about Trenton's appointmebt tomorrow, what if the doctor finds sonething wrong with Trenton's eyes.

Cactus Jack 11 Apr 2016, 21:47


I have been very busy today from about 6 am to nearly midnight and tomorrow will not be any better.

Please understand that you and your husband did not make any mistakes. Vision problems are very hard to detect in children, unless you understand how vision works and know the clues to look for. It is very rare for children to complain about their vision because they have no way to compare what the see with with they should be able to see. You DID NOT damage their vision and all glasses will do is pretty much show them what they have been missing. For the most part it will be a very pleasant surprise for them. It is possible that David may not much care for his glasses. That is because he has Hyperopia or what is sometimes called Farsightedness or Long Sightedness. It is the ONLY eye condition that if he has normal Accommodation (close focusing ability) for his age, he can almost effortlessly correct the problem internally, without even being aware that he is doing it. His initial reaction to his glasses is that they make his vision worse. No kidding, we answer more questions about Hyperopia than almost any other topic on Eye Scene. If you don't understand optics, Hyperopia can cause some pretty mysterious symptoms. I would urge you to not push David to wear his glasses full time. They will probably make reading and close focusing more comfortable. It may take a while, but he will come around, probably on his own.

Chris and maybe Scott will probably like their improved vision, but they are old enough to have some "vanity" problems. We often think of only girls has having vanity problems about glasses, but boys can also be very concerned about what their peers think of their glasses. Particularly, if they are the only ones in their grade at school wearing glasses. That, of course, will change with time as more parents discover that their children need glasses to see well.

As one of the other respondents said, almost all babies are born very Hyperopic because their eyes must be necessarily small to fit in their eye sockets. Fortunately most babies also have very capable focus systems to correct the problem. However, it takes about a month for most babies to learn how to use their Auto-Focus System (Accommodation) to learn how to focus their eye and see clearly. Unless Trenton is having symptoms of focusing difficulty such as having difficulty seeing and recognizing close things or perhaps eye crossing problems. It is very likely that he amy not really have a need for glasses. Hopefully, your appointment is with a Pediatric Ophthalmologist. They specialize in vision problems in Children and surprisingly, certain types of vision problems in Adults.

Sorry I don't have time for more. I would like to help you learn about how vision works and what to expect with your children's vision in the future. I believe I can also suggest some simple things you can do to help you experience your children's vision for your self. It is very educational and for the most part demonstrate that it is not as bad as it seems.

May I ask where you live?


Michael 11 Apr 2016, 21:30

One more thing. As somebody else said everybody other than Philip has a higher than average first script. But young children have excellent accommodation so it might not be that surprising that nobody was aware of their vision problems. Neither you or your husband or any of their teachers. Does your pediatrician normally do a vision screening when your boys go for a physical?I wonder if he spotted something that made him do so.

Jamie 11 Apr 2016, 20:04


This was the first for all of them. The doctor did say most of them probably did need glasses for a while. I hope that my mistake in not noticing any difficulties did not cause any further damage to any of the boys' vision. I just feel so bad for not noticing that any of them were struggling. What's more, none of the older one's teachers have never said anything about their vision either.

Likelenses 11 Apr 2016, 19:52


One thing that you can do to help all of them is to monitor their reading distances.

They should never read printed material any closer than 12 inches,and not be closer to a computer screen than 20 inches.

All except Philip should wear glasses for both near,and distance,pretty much full time,and Philip for distance,but he may prefer to wear them for near as well.

Likelenses 11 Apr 2016, 19:40

Jamie I agree with the others that Trenton's script is very high,but it is also interesting that all of the others have scripts higher than the usual first script.

Philip's script is about what one usually sees in first scripts.

Is this the first exam for all of them,or have the older boys been examined every year or so?

Michael 11 Apr 2016, 16:28

I apologize for confusing you more than you were already. And certainly didn't want to worry you more than you already were. The other Mike which was not me is correct that babies are born farsighted but I have no idea for how long. But Trenton's farsightedness is very severe or at least appears to be. There doesn't seem to be anything that unusual with the scripts of your other children other than all of them needing some kind of vision correction. And it is a mixed bag. Either farsightedness, nearsightedness or a combination of nearsightedness and astigmatism. And my guess is Nick will be joining the glasses club too probably sooner rather than later. I think nearsightedness can run in families so if one parent is nearsighted there is a decent chance the children will be nearsighted as well and when both parents are nearsighted the chances are even greater.But I don't think I ever heard of any situation quite like yours.

But Cactus Jack is our resident expert here so I will defer to his expertise. I don't write here very often but have learned so much from him through the years.I am sure he will be able to shed some light on your situation.But I do find all of your children needing vision correction when neither you or your husband do to be most unusual.

Jamie 11 Apr 2016, 15:49

Sorry for all the mistakes in my last post, I was not really paying attention, and did not proof read. Here is the fixed version.

Well, I posted here for some clarity, and now I am more confused and worried than I was when I first posted. I guess I will wait for Cactus Jack to respond becauss he seems to be the expert around here, or just ask the specialisit that I am taking Trenton to. Thank you all for trying to help, though.

Jamie 11 Apr 2016, 15:45

Well, I posted here for dome clariy, and mow Imam mor confused and worried than I was when I first posted. I guess I will wait for Cactus Jack to respond becauss he seems to be the expert around here, or just ask the specialisit that I am taking Trenton to. Thank you all for trying to help though.

Mike 11 Apr 2016, 14:18

Jamie, The mixed results does seem a bit odd, the one that jumps out at me is Trenton. It is normal for babies to be farsighted when born and as their eyes grow they become less farsighted. I am not an expert and have no idea what a normal 14 month old amount of farsightedness would be. My oldest son developed amblyopia (crossed eyes) when he was only a few months old, typically if the hyperopia (farsightedness) is bad enough it will manifest itself with amblyopia. In my boys case he had a big difference in the vision of both eyes and that was the cause for the crossed eyes. I would definitely get a second option on Trenton.

Michael 11 Apr 2016, 12:47

It doesn't appear that bad vision runs in your family. So it is weird that all your kids have eye problems of varying degrees.Honestly I have no idea why.But it is too coincidental to believe it is just chance. It is like rolling a coin five times and it comes up either heads or tails each time.That usually doesn't happen. I think we need Cactus Jack's expert opinion.Maybe he has some ideas how this could have possibly happened.Could there be some bad vision in either your family or your husband's going way back that you don't know about?And I agree it is good that you will be bringing your youngest son for further testing. I don't want to alarm you but that is a very high script for somebody his age. But needing glasses at such a young age may not be as unusual as you might think.It is the script that would concern me.

Jamie 11 Apr 2016, 12:13

My husband and I did not get our eyes checked with the kids, but we get them checked fairly regularly (every 2-3 years).

We do not need glasses, but 2/4 of my brother/sister-inlaws wear glasses. My sisters (there are 2) don't need glasses, but my brother recently got reading glasses (earlier this year). We only have two nephews, and three nieces, and only one niece wears glasses. She got them when she was 12 years old.

Hope this was helpful.

Michael 11 Apr 2016, 10:26

Jamie-Not sure when the experts here will be able to chime in but I saw your post and will chime in with a few thoughts. Am I right that the number next to each name is their age? What strikes me as interesting is your children seem to have different eye problems of various degrees. David is farsighted with no other apparent eye problems.Chris is nearsighted with some astigmatism. Scott is mildly nearsighted with a significant amount of astigmatism. Philip is mildly nearsighted. Trenton would be the one I would be most concerned about.He is severely farsighted at the age of 1.Does poor eyesight run in either your husband's or your family? Do either you or your husband wear glasses and if so for how long? Poor eyesight can definitely be hereditary.And you did nothing wrong.You can be sure of that. Now I will wait to see what the experts here will say.

Soundmanpt 11 Apr 2016, 10:20


Your questions are directed at "Cactus Jack" and I will allow him to answer your questions about your sons eyes. But the only thing I wanted to comment on is that I am sure all this has come as quite a shock to you as there mother. But one thing you have to know is that you or your husband have done anything wrong to cause your sons to need glasses. There is nothing you could have done to prevent them from needing glasses. You didn't say if you and your husband also got your eyes examined only that neither one of you wear glasses. You both probably should get your eyes examined because if either or both of you were to need glasses it would probably be a big encouragement to your boys when they get their glasses because that might be your biggest problem is getting them to wear their glasses. Usually it is helpful if one or both of the parents wear glasses as well. Maybe when you go to get the boys glasses you could ask about getting glasses for yourself? But I again want you to understand that you did nothing wrong.

Jamie 11 Apr 2016, 09:55

Cactus Jack

Not quite sure what their prescriptions mean, but I have them. I will just right them row by row.





-2.00, -.75, 115

-2.00, -.50, 040


-1.00, -1.50, 070

-0.50, -2.50, 130




Nick-2 For Nick the doctor said he could benefit grom glasses because he has a little problem seeing faraway, but it dies nit cause any disturbances for him, so he said to bring him back with his brothers in six months, and then he might get glasses.




I may not know much about glasses, but thises numbers seem so big, and he is just a baby. Baby's don't need glasses, why does mine? Why do all of mine?

I know not all of them will really have glasses next Friday, but Nick might as well have them, he is having a little trouble, and now or in six months, what's the difference. How could all of them need glasses, what is wrong with their eyes? Did I do something wrong, is this my fault? This just makes me so sad, all my boys need glasses. Sorry, it's just I did not expect this, and I just, I do not know, I guess I am in a shock still. It just so sudden. What's more, the doctor suggested a specialist for me to take Trenton to, to get a better diagnosis, that appointment is in two days.

Soundmanpt 11 Apr 2016, 09:35


Glad to hear that you got your glasses. Being that these are your glasses it's very understandable that your testing your eyes by wearing them and then taking them off to compare the difference. Your glasses aren't very strong but they don't have to be to make a difference in how well you see things which you seem to already be finding out. So you at least know that wearing glasses do benefit you in your ability to see clearer. I'm a bit surprised that your ECP (eye care professional) advised you not to wear your glasses when your reading or on the computer. Of course you should do what was advised. But in answer to your question since astigmatisms effect your vision at all distances it is more common to be told to wear them. For example there are people that when tested the can see the 20/20 so they aren't nearsighted at all but the letters may still look fuzzy and distorted to them and that is caused by astigmatisms. So in a way what the glasses are doing then is fine tuning the eyes. If you ever get headaches you might want to put your glasses on no matter what your doing because chances are they will make the headache go away rather quickly. Astigmatisms often times can be the cause of headaches. You tested your glasses by wearing them to drive to work and then after work on your way to the mall. So not sure how long either drive was but even though it was a bright sunny day when your vision is at it's best you still noticed a bit of improvement with your glasses on and that is really without your eyes having too much of a chance to adjust to the prescription i your glasses. So you at least know you are able to see better even on a bright suny day with your glasses then you see without them. Now i'm sure that your able to see well enough without your glasses to be considered safe to drive. But not at all surprising that on your drive home, I assume from the mall, when the sun was setting that you found that your glasses made a considerable difference in your vision. And remember this was only your first day of driving with your glasses on. As your eyes get more adjusted to your glasses I think your going to notice it even more. Since your job involves you doing a good bit of driving at night I really suggest that you plan on wearing your glasses from now on when your driving at night. And since your abel to see better with them even on sunny days you probably should even wear them during the day as well. I would suggest that you go on line and order yourself a pair of prescription sunglasses which you can buy for under $20.00 from several sites. Look at "" or "eyebuydirect,com" they both offer many styles and the quality is very good. Also a side bonus would be that since you clearly aren't thrilled about wearing and even worse being seen by friends and family wearing glasses if you had prescription sunglasses you could maybe hide the fact that you need glasses a bit longer. But I really do think you should tell your parents that you got glasses. Honestly it isn't nearly as big of a deal as you think. Your parents would simply tell you how nice they look on you and that would be it. Of course there is no glasses police so your in luck there but even though your still legal to drive without glasses I don't think it is ever good not to be seeing as good as possible when your driving. Just being able to see something in the road a few seconds sooner could be all the difference in hitting it or stopping and your glasses could be the difference. Remember a car travels several hundred feet in just a couple seconds. You commented that you might or might not wear them to concerts and sporting events. That's totally up to you because the only person getting hurt would be you. Why would you even consider buying a ticket which could cost $15.00 to maybe $100.00 or more and then not be able to see clearly what is going on while you have your glasses in your bag? Sorry if that all sounded like a lecture. By the way if we don't comment again before next week Happy birthday!

Cactus Jack 11 Apr 2016, 01:09


It would be helpful to know the ages of your children and their complete prescriptions. Also, where you live (country(


Jamie 10 Apr 2016, 23:00

Hi, my name is Jamie, I am a mother, and my sons just got their eyes examined after two of them failed the vision part of their normal check ups with their pediatrician. Due to the reasons I expected them to get glasses, but as it turned out all them need glasses, even the baby (he is 14 months old). I was sort of in shock, and forgot to ask all my questions, so was wondering if anyone could help me? Their glasses should be ready by next friday, so I want to be prepared. My husband and I do not wear glasses, so this is all new to us.

Likelenses 10 Apr 2016, 22:47


Your right eye has enough astigmatism that without glasses it is being strained for any distance.

Your left has enough myopia that even with the small amount of astigmatism you are not seeing properly without glasses.

The axis of each eye is quite different,and that too causes strain on both eyes.

Many people would wear that prescription all the time.

Are you finding the glasses hard to get used to?

Anne 10 Apr 2016, 22:34

Yes, I’ve seen that on a lot of websites about astigmatism affecting vision at all distances, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for me. And my doctor told me I shouldn’t wear them for reading or computer. Do other people with similar prescriptions wear glasses for these purposes?

I am eager to test out my glasses some more, but it probably won't happen this week with my parents visiting. I'm also off from work, and most likely will not be doing any driving until next week.

Likelenses 08 Apr 2016, 21:33


You do have a prescription that includes a correction for astigmatism.

Astigmatism affect vision at all distances.

I would suggest that you wear the glasses all the time for a week or two to fully get used to them. That would include when reading,or on a computer.

Anne 08 Apr 2016, 21:16

So I got my glasses yesterday and they definitely make a difference. Everything looks super sharp and bright, like HD. Colors are so vivid, that’s probably the biggest thing I’ve noticed. Also being able to see little details and textures from a distance. I don’t ever remember seeing like this, and I had very good vision growing up (easily read the 20/20 line every year at school screenings).

I haven’t done much driving in the dark in the past few weeks, now that the days are longer and the weather has been uncharacteristically sunny here. I wore my glasses for part of my drive to work this morning, and then from work to the mall. It was really bright outside both times, and I still could see a difference (the scenery/trees looked amazing) but when I took the glasses off I still felt like I could see really well. But on my drive home, the sun was just starting to go down and the glasses made a huge improvement in my vision. Taking them off, things were noticeably blurry and I could feel my eyes straining to focus for a few seconds. Especially my left eye, which is my dominant eye but has slightly worse vision.

I think I will wear them for driving at least when it’s dark or rainy. And maybe at the movies or the rare occasions I go to a concert or sporting event. The vast majority of my time (at work and home) is spent on the computer, and they don’t make any difference for that (close up vision is perfectly clear with and without glasses). I’m definitely not ready to wear them in front of people I know (no one even knows I got them), which isn’t too hard since I live alone, across the country from most of my family and friends. My parents will be visiting next week for my 28th birthday, but I don’t think I will tell them about the glasses.

Likelenses 08 Apr 2016, 20:33

When I was in junior high school,and before I got glasses,a classmate got his first glasses.

What fascinated me was that he said the doctor had in addition to giving him his first glasses,prescribed eye drops to help him get used to the new glasses.

I remember that his lenses were minus,and looked somewhat stronger than other classmates that wore glasses.

As I recall he used the drops for a few weeks.

At that time I knew nothing about vision,or vision correction,but in thinking back,I suspect that his first prescription was quite strong,and he wore the glasses full time The doctor most likely prescribed drops to help him get used to his strong first glasses.

Has anyone had drops prescribed to help get used to new glasses?

NJ 08 Apr 2016, 13:02

I remember the first time I had my eyes dilated, in the first grade after I intentionally failed an eye exam at school because I wanted glasses but didn't think I needed them. Everything was really blurry! Turns out that I was rather hyperopic, to the tune of +4-5D or so. I don't really remember exactly, but I do remember the doc telling my parents I needed glasses and I was thrilled! I also remember those horrible sunglasses they gave me and how bright the light was outside.

Funny, but for all I wanted glasses then I didn't always wear them. I was self conscious and by the time I made it to middle school, I only wore them for reading. By college I needed then full time but was happy to have them.

I know that several docs I saw over the years said they never prescribe the full plus power that a cycloplegic exam produces. I know that in college I upped the plus on my glasses, after asking the doc what the numbers were with dilation, and though I could focus ok I found them uncomfortable to wear all the time.

Cactus Jack 08 Apr 2016, 11:00


Dilation can affect both distance and near, but at 60 with low Myopia it won't make much difference (BTW I'm 78). Dilation does 2 things. It causes your pupils to open wide and it paralyzes your Ciliary Muscles and you can't focus close. With your pupils open wide, you have no ability to control the amount of light reaching your Retina so everything will be VERY bright and perhaps a little fuzzy. With your Ciliary Muscles paralyzed, you won't be able to use what little accommodation you have left.

Typically, dilation is optional for people with Myopia because the improvement in accuracy is very small. With Hyperopia (corrected with + glasses, it can help in younger people with very active Accommodation. Hyperopia is the ONLY eye condition that a person can correct using their Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses. There are a couple of techniques that ECPs use to minimize the errors caused by active Accommodation, but they don't always work. Dilation does work by paralyzing the Ciliary Muscles and the ECP can get a more accurate measurement of their prescription.

Hopefully, she will be able to provide you with some dense, disposable sunglasses to help when you go outside in bright sunshine. Fortunately, the drops that they use to dilate your eyes will wear off in 6 to 8 hours.

Curiously, the drops they have to use to dilate your eyes varies with the color of your eyes. Blue or Green eyes are easy to dilate and the drops wear off more quickly than the much stronger drops they need to dilate Brown eyes.

If you have to drive yourself to the exam, as I do, I suggest trying to schedule the exam at a time so you won't have to drive home looking into the sun. I live to the west of my eye doctors office. If the exam with dilation is in the late afternoon, I have to drive home facing that. The dense sunglasses help, but it is still pretty rough,

I hope this explanation has been of help.


Bill 08 Apr 2016, 08:17

C Jack: Thanks. No special medical history. Last time she said it was just to get a better look inside. Looking at posts here many have said that dilated exam is more accurate. If I read you correctly, that might not make a difference in my case. I am 60 with I guess a weak prescription. Does dilation have an effect on the distance test, close test, both, or neither?

Cactus Jack 08 Apr 2016, 07:59


You didn't mention your age or medical history which could be the reason for dilating your eyes. The eyes are a window into the body and a dilated exam allows a better look at the Retina. Many "silent killers" such as High Blood Pressure and /Diabetes, are first detected by small changes in the tiny blood vessels that supply oxygen and nutrients to the Retina.

Typically, Dilation is done after refraction, because it will paralyze your Ciliary Muscles and prevent accommodation for near vision. However, it is sometimes done before refraction if the examiner wants your Ciliary Muscles as relaxed as possible, usually where Hyperopia is involved or Latent Hyperopia is known or suspected. It can also help reveal Pseudo Myopia.

If you are over 50, chances are your ECP just wants a good look at your Retinas.

I have know that I was prone to develop and have had Type 2 Diabetes for about 50 years. I get a dilated exam about every 6 to 12 months. The last one was on Monday. I was delighted to hear that my Retinas exhibited no damage from the Diabetes so I apparently have been doing a pretty good job of managing it. Once you learn how, is very easy to manage using the tools we have today.

Your ECP is doing you a favor by wanting to have a look. The key to effective management is early detection. Never avoid medical screenings or tests for fear that something will be discovered. You are vastly better off knowing that you have early signs of a problem than waiting until it is harder to manage and it affects your life.


Bill 08 Apr 2016, 07:33

I am scheduled for an exam this afternoon. Three years ago, at my last exam, the dr, AFTER the exam, suggested dilating my eyes so she could get a better look inside. Should I have them dilated again? If yes, before or after the refracting? Does dilating have an effect on the refracting? I old prescription is about -1.00 with a +1.75 add. Is dilating just to allow a better look into the eye or does it have an effect on the accuracy of the distance vision and/or close vision?

Soundmanpt 04 Apr 2016, 06:54


I did miss seeing that. I assume the drops were to dilate her eyes but I am surprised that Jojo never said anything about her needing to wear dark glasses when they went home after her exam.

Jojo 03 Apr 2016, 23:34

Thanks for posts.

Now she is wearing every second when she is alone and with me. Im really suprised that she is wearing like this.Even When going to the bath , she is wearing her glasses and when come out she has them in the eyes. Amazing.

I asked from her about this. She is saying even for the 2 days she is feeling like she is blind. She cried saying this to me

Likelenses 03 Apr 2016, 20:48


In JOJO'S Apr 2016, 03:25 post he does say that the doctor did put drops in her eyes,so it most likely was a wet refraction.

Anne 03 Apr 2016, 17:17

I am planning on getting glasses in the next week or so. I did definitely see a difference in clarity when the eye doctor had the lenses in front of my eyes, so I'm curious to see what kind of difference glasses will make. I'll post an update after I get them.

Soundmanpt 03 Apr 2016, 09:49


I am assuming that they didn't dilate your girlfriend's eyes when they examined her? In most cases a patient is only getting a very weak first prescription if any at all so dilating isn't as necessary. But in your girlfriend's case it would have helped because the dilation would have relaxed her eyes much more and provided a bit more of an accurate prescription for her. Even though i'm sure she is seeing much better than she was without glasses she is almost certainly under corrected. Not surprised at all that they want her to come back in 4 months. By then she is likely going to start to notice that her glasses don't seem to be giving her as good of vision as they did when she first got them. If you pay close attention to her you may even start to notice her starting to squint when she is looking at something in the distance with her glasses on after about 3 months or so. If she likes her frames she should just have new lenses made for her glasses.

Her reaction to wearing glasses is pretty normal. The comparing how well she cane see with and without her glasses is to be expected. I'm sure she has to be shocked at how well she can see with glasses now, but even so she is going to want to test her vision without glasses. Also trying to get used to keeping her glasses on all the time takes some getting used to. Shes not used to seeing the world through lenses and how her glasses sit on her nose as well as behind her ears. So she is probably taking her glasses off quite a bit as a result. But the more she wears her glasses the more comfortable they will start to feel and she will soon hardly even notice that she is wearing them. Not surprising that she is still shy about wearing in front of people which explains why she didn't wear her glasses around your parents even though she clearly was missing them.

Jojo 02 Apr 2016, 19:46


I think soundmanpt is correct mentioning that doctor didn't give full prescription. When she finaly looking through that big machine with lenses, she couldnt read the last line. Even the second was difficult for her. But doctor read that prescription for her as final. And also i forgot to mention that, doctor told us to come back after 4 months.

She selected frameless glasses as she didn't like to show it to others. I told her that thickness can be seen in those frames.But her first choice was to not to show it to others by selecting an almost unseen frames. However, she was cute in her glasses. Her distortion in her two side of the face was noticable.

For the first few hours she was amazed by wearing and removing glasses and comparing . I can see happy in her face. She missd some steps wearing those glasses in the house. She was trying to remove glasses when she was with me. But the next second she is realizing that she can't see. How ever when my parents were around she didnt wear her glases today and i can see how she is strugling without them.i was amazed that when i see her wearing glasses as soon as she woke up and open the windows, the first thing she did was wearing glases. And also after , she did daily exersice routine with them today morning. I will buy her some glasses so she can wear them when she needs.

Thank you

DS 02 Apr 2016, 19:20

Maxim is correct.

Accommodation, aka "eye strain," doesn't come into play with myopia. It's just blurry.

The doctor also probably did try to give the full prescription, taking care to not overcorrect. Younger patients who can still accommodate love their minus. That's an overcorrection for myopes and undercorrection for hyperopes.

Maxim 02 Apr 2016, 12:26


Your girlfriend has needed glasses for some time and only because she must have pretty good accommodation has she managed this long. But she has been straining her eyes and working them very hard in order to get by.


This leaves a little question mark to me, as the young lady seems to be myopic (=nearsighted). For myopia, there is no such cure as 'accomodation', there is just the blur, some squinting (but unsufficient for this prescription).

Accomodation in general language meaning (like "to cope with the problem") - yes. 'Accomodation' as for hyperopia: I don't agree.

Sincerely, M.

Soundmanpt 02 Apr 2016, 10:56


Your girlfriend has needed needed glasses for some time and only because she must have pretty good accommodation has she managed this long. But she has been straining her eyes and working them very hard in order to get by. I'm positive by seeing her prescription that she didn't even get what her full prescription should be. Doctors don't like going too strong with first glasses because it can be hard for her eyes to accept so much at one time. But for her right now her glasses are going to feel perfect for her eyes and she will be able to see just fine with them. A normal first prescription is usually somewhere around -.50 up to maybe -1.00 and as you can see she needs stronger glasses than that. In fact if when you take her prescription of R -2.0 -1.00 88 / L -1.75 -1.00 124 and you put together her distance part of her prescription with her astigmatism she is really more like R -2.50 / L -2.25. At first she is going to find that her glasses are a big help to her but she is still likey going to try and get by without them and even though when she takes her glasses off everything is going to be very blurry for her but after a few minutes without her glases her eyes will go back to how she was seeing before she got her glasses. That is perfectly normal, but the more she wears her glasses and the longer she has them on the longer it is going to take for her old eyesight to return until everything will just remain a blur without her glasses. N ow she may enjoy how well she is able to see with her glasses so much that she won't even bother trying to go without them. But if she does it won't be long until she will find that she can't really function very well without her glasses anymore. I would expect tthat in about 6 - 9 months she will be needing an increase in her glasses because they will already be feeling too weak for her eyes. Wearing glasses is going to be very new to her and she is sure to be nervous and maybe even a bit scared wearing them in public. You need to tell her how nice she looks wearing glasses to help boost her self confidence. That will be very important to her.

Jojo 02 Apr 2016, 10:07

Hi ,

Thanks for the post maxim. I havent check my eyes yet. ☺

Josh- yes. This is her first


Maxim 02 Apr 2016, 08:51

1st: sorry for double entry - it took eternities (no, but it took minutes, and then were two entries ..)

2nd: When she will w e a r them ...., NOT: When she will were them.

Maxim 02 Apr 2016, 08:23

There are two sides of the medal, as always, with your girlfriend's prescription.

Compared with many, many people, who need glasses, this is a very light prescription (between two and three diopters only - look, which necessities others have with their vision).

On the other hand, this is very substantial for her. When she will were them, she will notice, that without glasses she has only approx. an estimated quarter (!) of the quality of the vision accuracy she can reach with glasses. I feel, we're living in 2016, and a good vission counts very much.

So my advice: buy some very nice frames for her, tell her, how beautiful she looks, and encourage her to wear these glasses permanently.

By the way: did YOU have your eyes checked? Also, when you have only a minor prescription, start wearing glasses together with her, an act of solidarity, and you both will feel fine and happy!

Best wishes for both of you, sincerely, M.

Maxim 02 Apr 2016, 08:23

There are two sides of the medal, as always, with your girlfriend's prescription.

Compared with many, many people, who need glasses, this is a very light prescription (between two and three diopters only - look, which necessities others have with their vision).

On the other hand, this is very substantial for her. When she will were them, she will notice, that without glasses she has only approx. an estimated quarter (!) of the quality of the vision accuracy she can reach with glasses. I feel, we're living in 2016, and a good vission counts very much.

So my advice: buy some very nice frames for her, tell her, how beautiful she looks, and encourage her to wear these glasses permanently.

By the way: did YOU have your eyes checked? Also, when you have only a minor prescription, start wearing glasses together with her, an act of solidarity, and you both will feel fine and happy!

Best wishes for both of you, sincerely, M.

Josh 02 Apr 2016, 05:22

first glasses for her Jojo?

Jojo 02 Apr 2016, 03:25


Today i took my gf for the eye doctor.

Before they give us the doctors consultation number ,nurse checked her eyes with a some kind of chart which was on the wall to note something in the card. How ever she couldnt read the 4 th line from any of the eyes . 3 rd one she guess and told. Nurse wrote 2/6 R and 3/6 L. She asked whether she has glasess. We said n0 .

Then after 30 mnts we entered to the doctrs' room and he did lot of tests after few eye drops.

At the end he gave the prescripion as R -2.00 -1.00 88 and L -1.75 -1.00 124

He didnt say anythng to wear all the time or something.

Her glasses was considerbly thick and can see some rings.

Please advice me about her eye sight and regarding her requirment of glases.

Thank you.

 01 Apr 2016, 11:50

Get stuffed, Noname.

 01 Apr 2016, 11:25

Better get lasik, Ann. Glasses are terribly unatractive.

Soundmanpt 01 Apr 2016, 07:56


It is easy to understand your questioning if you really need glasses or not because i'm sure you feel like your eyesight is fine. The thing is when eyesight starts to change it is usually a very gradual process so from day to day you don't realize any decline in your ability to see things. But during your eye exam you probably did notice a difference when the optometrist put different lenses in front of your eyes and suddenly the letter were much clearer than it was. Your eye don't need a lot of help but they would benefit more than you think with the assistance of glasses, some things more than others. Even though you passed the drivers vision test a few months ago so you weren't required to wear glasses for driving i'm very sure if you get glasses the first thing you would find is that driving at night would be considerably better with glasses and it wouldn't hurt to wear them driving during the day since your job involves driving. Glasses will relax your eyes more and with less strain you wouldn't feel as tired at the end of the day.

Like Cactus Jack said if the thought of maybe paying several hundred dollars for a pair of glasses and then maybe not wear them concerns you then you should consider getting a pair on line. The glasses online, at least at the 2 places i am going to recommend, is every bit as good of quality and looks as the ones you would be buying at the optical store. Check out or they are both good places to get your glasses from that I have used many times for people. Both places have complete pairs for as little as $6.95 but nearly 800 fr under $15.00. Just be sure to add on the optional AR coating (anti-reflective) which costs about $5.00 more. This would be very helpful since you drive so much with driving at night. Because your 27 I wouldn't expect that your eyes will be changing very much over the coming years. Let us know what you decide to do or if you need any help with placing an on line order for glasses. I can help you figure out the proper size frame that will work for you.

Cactus Jack 01 Apr 2016, 03:59


Yes, you should get glasses, particularly for driving at night. They will make a big difference in low light conditions.

In practical terms,

OD: -0.25 -0.50 x 90

OS: -0.75 -0.25 x 55

Can be translated like this

OD (Right Eye) Sphere -0.25 very slightly nearsighted. everything beyond 4 meters or 13 feet is fuzzy. Cylinder -0.50 Astigmatism correction which messes up your ability to easily read small text at all distances. Axis 90 degrees The direction (Vertical) of the long axis of your Cylinder (Cylinder and Axis ALWAYS go together).

OS (Lest Eye) Sphere -0.75 more nearsighted. everything beyond 1.3 meters or 4 feet is fuzzy. Cylinder -0.25 Astigmatism correction is a bit less, but it still messes up small text. Axis 55 degrees The direction of the long axis of your Cylinder correction.

Axis angle specification, by tradition are measured starting with Horizontal = 0 degrees. The numbers increase in a counter clockwise direction, looking at the patent. to 90 degrees (vertical) and on around to 179 or 180 degrees. Axis angles are never specified greater than 180 degrees.

Vision actually occurs in the Brain/ If there is a difference in the clarity of the images from each eye, your Brain will select the clearest image and use that as the primary image and supplement that with visual information from the less clear eye. It does this without your even being aware that it is doing ti.

Hope this helps.

If you are concerned about the cost of glasses, we can help you order some low cost, high quality glasses on line. However, I personally prefer that you get your first pair of glasses from a local Optical store so they can adjust them for you. Depending on the frame you choose and where you live, You might be able to order some glasses for as little as US$17 with an Anti-Reflective Coating and shipping. Once you get used to wearing the first pair of glasses and think you would like to have a different frame style is the time to consider ordering on line.


Anne 31 Mar 2016, 23:19


I just had my first ever eye exam at 27 years old. I've been doing more nighttime driving recently and have had some difficulty seeing far away signs, etc. (although I passed the vision screening for my license renewal a few months ago). I just got vision insurance through my new job so I figured I might as well get checked out. It turns out I have 20/30 vision and I got the following prescription, which I was told is for distance:

OD: -0.25 -0.50 x 90

OS: -0.75 -0.25 x 55

Does it sound like it would be worth getting glasses with this prescription? Could my vision get worse? Nobody in my immediate family has needed glasses (except my parents use drugstore reading glasses) so I’m new to all of this.


Likelenses 31 Mar 2016, 21:17


Sounds pretty nearsighted,and most likely needs full time glasses.

Weirdeyes 31 Mar 2016, 20:39


I can't guess her prescription based on that information. It sounds like she has nearsightedness or astigmatism.

Jojo 31 Mar 2016, 20:31


This is regarding my girl friends eye sight.

For the last few days i am noticing lot of difficulties of her vision. I will provide some things and please guess her prescription if you can. Tommrow i did a booking for eye doctor though she refused.

1.From 3 meters she cannot recognize the TV actors in 32inch tv.

2. She cannot recognize people's faces 10m away.

3. She canot see big kfc menu (even pictrures) in 3 meter distance.

4. When writing she has a distance of 2 inches from nose to book.

5.4 inch size letters with small 2 lighs in 2 sides of the words in the hotel r00m door at night couldnt see from 1.5 m distance. She is saying there is no such thing in the door.

6. Having headaches when studied.

7. She wants to sit in first raw when goes to the lectures.

8.when im driving ,she cannot see the number of front vehicle.

9. At night she doesnt like to move without my hand for asistant.

9. I havent seen her squinting.

Her age is 24 and there is n0 glasses curently . 4 years ago she got driving licence.

Please guess the prescription. Thank you

Likelenses 31 Mar 2016, 16:52


I have a set of old medical books on ophthalmology from 1960,and they state than women as a group are more nearsighted than men.

But I agree your vast assortment of glasses must have skewed the current numbers LOL !

Melyssa 31 Mar 2016, 05:00


Thank you for the links. So if my second-favorite game show of all time (Match Game being first) were to make a comeback and have that question again, the answer would be 3/4. Naturally, I would buzz in first and get three spins for the correct answer. :)

I am a bit surprised that more women than men need vision correction. Maybe they were including my near-50 pairs of glasses. Granted, when I was in college, it did seem as though half of the young women then wore glasses either full time or part time -- and there were no items with very small print to look at in the 1980s. And the "smart" phones are probably why the number of farsighted people is double that of nearsighted people, because it certainly wasn't that way in the olden days.

Likelenses 30 Mar 2016, 18:28


Well DA! Why didn't I just do a search?

Results are slightly varied,but never the less very encouraging for we oo's

Likelenses 30 Mar 2016, 18:13


I agree with you,and if I had to guess,I would say it is now close to eighty percent.

I base that on the ageing baby boomers in either reading glasses,or bifocals/trifocals.Also the younger generation with more cases of myopia,especially higher levels,and some needing readers to deal with the new technology.

Of course that percentage would also include the contact lense wearers.

Melyssa 30 Mar 2016, 04:56

On a "Press Your Luck" episode from 1985, one of the questions was basically, "What fraction of Americans wear prescription glasses?" The vast majority of "fraction" questions on that game show would have possible answers of 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4. All three contestants guessed 1/2, and they were right. Somehow I get the feeling that 30+ years later, the answer may be different.

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 19:45

Did a crude test with my backlit kitchen clock with my lenses.


Astigmatic eye is still pretty sharp. Only slightly fuzzy if it can even be called that.

In the Nearsighted eye however, edges of the number begin to blend together into a barely separate mass of figures.

Conclusion: Pretty sure I got more nearsighted by maybe a quarter diopter. Hooray for human resourcefulness (and crappy vision genetics)

Cactus Jack 29 Mar 2016, 19:09


Hope that is helpful. We should chat some more, but have to go now,


Cactus Jack 29 Mar 2016, 19:04


An eye exam is not like an exam that you might take in school and there is really no way to study for it. However, you can prepare for it and learn about your role in the exam. The best eye exams are a team effort between you and the Examiner. Part of the preparation is to learn what to expect, particularly if this is your first eye exam.

One important thing you need to keep in mind is that the Examiner has no way to experience what you are seeing. He/she has to depend on your answers to questions.

There are two parts to an eye exam. The first part is the Objective part. This part consists of:

1. Taking a Visual History where you describe your vision and the kinds of problems you are having.

2. Checking the internal pressure in your eyes for symptoms of Glaucoma. This is one of the very few parts of an eye exam that is even mildly uncomfortable and the discomfort only lasts for a few seconds. There are two basic ways to do the pressure test.

A. Using a special instrument to lightly touch your Cornea. Not to worry here. Before doing this type of test a drop of mild anesthetic will make sure you don’t even feel it.

B. There is a new type instrument that uses a puff of air directed against your cornea. No anesthetic is required, but the puff will startle you. The puff of air is harmless and there are huge benefits of detecting Glaucoma early before it can do damage.

3. Obtaining a preliminary estimate of your refractive error using an Auto-Refractor, or manually by using a small hand held instrument called an Ophthalmoscope or Retinoscope.

The Auto-Refractor is a relatively new instrument that was developed in conjunction with NASA to check Astronauts vision in space. You look into the machine with each eye individually at a scene or a pattern and the machine will adjust its internal lenses to focus the image you see on your retina. The Auto-Refractor only takes a few seconds for each eye and it then prints out your estimated prescription.

Some Examiners prefer to use manual methods that have been used for many years. Using an Ophthalmoscope or Retinoscope and a Trial Lens set or a Phoropter (a fancy machine with a built in lens set), the Examiner will look into your eyes and select the lenses that allow him to see your retina, most clearly.

The object of this part of the exam is to get a starting place for the Subjective part of the exam where you have to describe what you see.

Typically the Subjective part of the exam starts with the Right Eye shutter open and the Left Eye shutter closed.

Step 1 is typically determining the cylinder and axis of any Astigmatism correction you need. This is actually the hardest part of the exam because you will be asked to judge relative blurriness of two images rather than the sharpness of an image.

You will be shown a line of text and a supplemental lens will be rotated into place. This lens is a cylinder lens that is mounted on a 45 degree pivot and can be flopped back an forth to bracket a trial axis or orientation of the long axis of the cylinder lens. The thing that is confusing about this test is that the straight lines (strokes) of the letters will alternate in clarity as the lens is flipped back and forth depending on their direction. I suggest concentrating on an “O” if possible. Depending on your answers, the examiner will adjust the axis knob unit the image you see is equally blurry with the supplemental lens 45 degrees each side of the selected axis.

At this point the Examiner will probably swing the supplemental lens out of the way and may change the cylinder power while asking you which lens in clearer.

You may be uncomfortable, for your first exam, asking the Examiner to let you fine tune the axis, but I have found that most will appreciate your wanting to actively participate. The way that works is that he will place your hand on the Axis control knob and you move it back and forth a few degrees of the sharpest image, this time.

The next step is determining the Sphere correction. This is an easy part of the exam because all you have to do is pick the sharpest image, but there is a tricky part. Your auto-focus mechanism will try to help, if it gets a chance. The Examiner has a couple of ways to minimize the action of your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses.

The Examiner can in effect sneak up on your Sphere prescription or he can use drops to Dilate your eyes. Lets talk about sneaking up on your prescription first. There are actually 4 lenses in your eye’s lens system. All of them are PLUS lenses and the total power is about +56 diopters. The only variable focus lens is the crystalline lens whose PLUS power is controlled by your ciliary muscles. For distance, your Crystalline lens is fully relaxed and has somewhere around +15 diopters. When you focus to read, your Ciliary Muscles squeeze the Crystalline lens to increase its PLUS power by the amount necessary to focus which depends on the distance to the object.

This will take a little thought to get your mind around, but if you are nearsighted, your lens system has too much PLUS for the distance from the lens system to your retina and you need MINUS lenses to neutralize some of that excess PLUS power. You ONLY have the ability to increase the PLUS power of your lens system. You have NO ability to reduce the PLUS power of your Crystalline lenses more that fully relaxed.

To try to keep your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses from getting in the act, the examiner will start with NOT ENOUGH MINUS or TOO MUCH PLUS (same thing) and gradually increase the MINUS one or two steps at a time, while reducing the size of the line you are asked to read. He will not tell you what power lens or what line you are looking at. Eventually, he will reach the 20/20 line and a lens power that lets you read it with no mistakes.

He will then follow the same procedure with your Left Eye.

When he has completed both eyes, he will open the shutters and you may see two images. This part of the test is to check your muscle balance using some prisms. He will probably ask you to tell him when the two images are aligned horizontally and then vertically. While the images are separated, you have an important check to make. Compare the sharpness of the two images. If they are not equally sharp, be sure and tell the Examiner which image is clearer. If there is a difference, he will likely reduce the sharpness of the clearest image until they match. The important thing at this point is that they match. That lack of sharpness will be corrected in the next phase with both eyes working together.

Next he will fuse the images so both eyes are working together and repeat the Sphere procedure by gradually increasing the MINUS or decreasing the PLUS until you see the smallest line of letters very clearly.

That pretty much completes the exam except for checking your near vision with a small chart about 14 to 16 inches from you.

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 19:00


Either is fine - No preference. Considering a it's helpful the format will not matter.

Cactus Jack 29 Mar 2016, 18:53


Had to look for "How to Study for an Eye Exam and found it. It seems like I posted it recently, but I can try it here. It is right on the border line of a maximum sized post. Or I can post it on Vision and Spex or

What would you like me to do?


Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 18:45

You hastily wrote the study tips for an eye exam, an I do not believe that was included. Care to elaborate?

Cactus Jack 29 Mar 2016, 18:43


Got up again. Try to be patient and not to twitch and only click on Submit, once.

Thanks for refreshing my memory. At 78, most of my faculties are in pretty good shape. I occasionally have senior moments, but I attribute that to having a lot of memories and sometimes it takes a while to look something up. However, I see so many prescriptions that sometimes I have trouble putting a prescription to a Nickname.

I believe you have had those glasses for about 9 months, is that right? I also seem to remember that you ordered the glasses from Pearle Optical and it took a rather long time to get them.

With all the close work you do, it would not surprise me that you might need an increase in Sphere and it is very likely that your Astigmatism has changed some. Astigmatism is funny, it actually changes very slowly, but that part of the exam is very subjective, particularly, the Axis. Did I suggest the procedure for fine tuning the Axis before your last exam?


Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 18:23

And I did it again....

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 18:22

Well of course, I'll list it below.


OD: -0.25


Blank Axis and Prism

ADD: (not sure if this is a 1 or not. There is a vertical slash through both boxes)


CYL: -0.75

AXIS: 118

Blank Prism

A rather weak prescription but it helps me see the board at school. Astigmatism basically just kills the clarity in my field of vision. Optometrist says that could possibly go away, how that's possible I can't tell. Wouldn't be surprised if I get more nearsighted though.

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 18:22

Well of course, I'll list it below.


OD: -0.25


Blank Axis and Prism

ADD: (not sure if this is a 1 or not. There is a vertical slash through both boxes)


CYL: -0.75

AXIS: 118

Blank Prism

A rather weak prescription but it helps me see the board at school. Astigmatism basically just kills the clarity in my field of vision. Optometrist says that could possibly go away, how that's possible I can't tell. Wouldn't be surprised if I get more nearsighted though.

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 18:22

Well of course, I'll list it below.


OD: -0.25


Blank Axis and Prism

ADD: (not sure if this is a 1 or not. There is a vertical slash through both boxes)


CYL: -0.75

AXIS: 118

Blank Prism

A rather weak prescription but it helps me see the board at school. Astigmatism basically just kills the clarity in my field of vision. Optometrist says that could possibly go away, how that's possible I can't tell. Wouldn't be surprised if I get more nearsighted though.

Cactus Jack 29 Mar 2016, 17:59

Hi Iristotle,

Good to hear from you. Having some problems with so I can't go back and refresh my memory about what prescription you wound up with. Could you refresh my memory for me. I will probably be able to get the Hotmail account fixed, but I am having trouble getting it to recognize my password.


Don't worry about the multiple posts, it happens to all of us when the server is slow.

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:45

Oh shit.

Sorry about those mass duplicates. I assumed it didn't go through. I guess a slow server today.

Note to self: Wait for post to go through instead of spamming button and other users with posts.

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:43

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:42

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Iristotle 29 Mar 2016, 17:42

Long time no see! (No pun intended given my past posts.)

Quick question:

How do I know when it's time for an upgrade, or when I need to get re-examined for glasses?

[Probably doesn't matter but I got glasses in June after blowing it off for 4 years because I was ignorant]

Soundmanpt 18 Mar 2016, 15:35


Great that you did get a copy of your prescription. You already looked up what the numbers mean in your prescription which was very smart of you. So i'm sure you have noticed that if hold you hand over your left eye and use only your right eye to see something it is likely a little bit blurry. And if you hold your hand over your right eyes and use just your left eye you can see everything fine. Your prescription is really pretty weak but still i'm sure you notice a difference wearing them. But maybe not as much as if you had a prescription for both eyes since now when you look at something you really are mostly only using your left eye to see with. Now it will take some getting used to being able to use both eyes. You don't really need to wear your glasses full time if you don't want to but if you ant to wear them full time that is perfectly okay to do as well.

Carrie 18 Mar 2016, 10:10

Zoe - How has was your first day with glasses? Did you wear them all day or just for distances? Everything should look clearer, although some people take a day or 2 to get used to a prescription for astigmatism. Remember it's entirely up to you how much you wear your glasses. If you don't want to wear them full time then just put them on if you need to see something clearer or if you are feeling a headache/eyeache coming on.

Zoe 17 Mar 2016, 20:22

I did get my prescription, and based on what google says to about how to read eyeglasses prescriptions my right eye is nearsighted, and I have astigmatism in it too, and my left eye does not have a prescription. The numbers for ny right eye are -0.5, -0.75, and 130.

Zoe 17 Mar 2016, 20:22

I did get my prescription, and based on what google says to about how to read eyeglasses prescriptions my right eye is nearsighted, and I have astigmatism in it too, and my left eye does not have a prescription. The numbers for ny right eye are -0.5, -0.75, and 130.

Soundmanpt 17 Mar 2016, 09:05


When you go to get your glasses be sure to ask for a copy of your prescription that way we can advise you as to when you will be needing your glasses most. You can of course ask the optician while he / she is fitting them on you about when you should wear your glasses. But really that is going to be up to you because you might be much better with tolerating some blurriness or you might prefer seeing everything crystal clear and sharp. You may like your glasses enough and feel so comfortable wearing them that you might want to just wear them all the time and that is perfectly fine and you won't be doing any harm to your eyes by wearing them. The only exception is that when you might be doing a lot of close work such as reading or studying then you should take your glasses off because your eyes don't need any additional help with seeing close up. Let us know how it feels seeing things with your new glasses once you pick them up.

Alexandra 17 Mar 2016, 08:49

Zoe what is your prescription ?

Zoe 17 Mar 2016, 04:30

The doctor said nithing about when to wear them, but he did say they would help me see everything in more detail, and helo me focus on small stuff that are further away. I am getting the glasses in a few hours. Can't believe in a few hours I will be a girl with glasses.

Weirdeyes 16 Mar 2016, 10:39

Apparently it does work on adults once in a while. At least if it's refractive amblyopia. Strabismic amblyopia is way harder to treat. I used to be considered amblyopic. I didn't get glasses until I was eleven and I didn't get a decent prescription until I was thirteen. I can now be corrected to 20/20 or 20/15 in both eyes.

Tom1 16 Mar 2016, 09:44

I read in an old post in the Post your prescription thread that a person wears a +2 unneeded corretion on one eye to make her vision very blurry, in replacement of a patch. This is to correct amblyopia. Is this common? I dind't hear before... I presume this works only for children, not adults... correct?

Tom1 16 Mar 2016, 09:44

I read in an old post in the Post your prescription thread that a person wears a +2 unneeded corretion on one eye to make her vision very blurry, in replacement of a patch. This is to correct amblyopia. Is this common? I dind't hear before... I presume this works only for children, not adults... correct?

Soundmanpt 15 Mar 2016, 08:07


So did we describe pretty much what an eye exam would be like? Was there any part of the exam that scared you? I'm sure you got a lot of the "which is better" question asked of you. But that is the only way the doctor knows which lenses works best for your eyes. If you didn't remember to ask for a copy of your prescription you should ask for a copy when you go to get your glasses. By any chance when the doctor was testing your distance vision on the eye chart do you remember how many lines from the bottom you weren't able to see clearly? Did you take your time in picking out your glasses? When you go to get your glasses when they call to say that their ready, they should do a fitting for you. An optician will put your glasses on you and check the fit behind your ears. They should only be touching the backside of your ears slightly. If they feel tight be sure to let them know that Once they have them adjusted to your face they should have you put your head down and shake your head. If your glasses come lose or slide down they are too loose. You don't want your glasses sliding down all the time because constantly pushing them back up can be annoying. They will give you a glasses case and a micro cleaning cloth to clean your glasses with. When your not wearing your glasses ALWAYS put them in the case. Trust me throwing them in your bag will very quickly cause them to get the lenses scratched. Never sit your glasses down on the lenses. Never clean your glasses with anything made from paper such as tissues, paper towels and toilet paper. I don't know what the optician will advise but you really should wear your glasses for about a week full time so your eyes can adjust to them, then you can wear them as needed. It's fine to wear your glasses as much as you like and you won't be doing any harm to your eyes. The only time you should not be wearing them is when your doing a lot of close work such as studying or reading a book. So that takes us to how your feeling about wearing glasses in front of your friends, classmates and even your family for the first time? If you have any fears only look around at how many of your friends wear glasses now. Yes of course when they see you wearing glasses for the first time they are going to comment but it will be in the form of complements on how nice you look wearing glasses. You can fully expect that your girlfriends will be wanting to try them as well. After everyone has seen you wearing glasses your wearing glasses will quickly be old news. Do you have any questions or concerns we can maybe help you with about getting glasses?

Carrie 14 Mar 2016, 23:46

Zoe - not a surprise really. I think you were expecting it. Do you know what your prescription is? Did the doctor suggest you wear glasses just for distances or all the time?

Zoe 14 Mar 2016, 23:05

I had my appointment today, and the doctor said I could benefit from glasses. I am a nearsighted. The glasses should be ready in two days.

 14 Mar 2016, 23:02

June 13 Mar 2016, 23:03

You have explained it very well to,Zoe. Well done Carrie

Carrie 13 Mar 2016, 17:41

Zoe - in that case you will probably need to get glasses for activities such as watching TV and looking at boards and screens at school. They won't improve your reading vision because you probably don't need any improvement but they won't make it worse.

Remember there is nothing to be scared of or worried about. If you get prescribed glasses the time it takes for them to be ready will depend on how the place operates. Some places can make your glasses in about an hour, other places have to send the frames and your details away to be made in to your prescription glasses which will take a few days to a couple of weeks.

If you like shopping for clothes and shoes then you will like choosing your frames as there are so many to choose from! Take someone with you that you trust will give an honest opinion on the frames you try on. You could also take a selfish when you try each frame on so you can see how others would see you, which is different to how you see yourself in a mirror. Don't worry if you can't decide on a frame on the day as you can always come back another day. If you have a copy of your prescription given to you then you can also go to another store to choose your frames if you can't find anything you like in the store where you get eyes tested. Depending where you are in the world the place you get your eyes tested at must give you a copy of your prescription (you may have to ask for it).

Likelenses 13 Mar 2016, 16:09


That would be an indication that you are nearsighted.

Zoe 13 Mar 2016, 15:43


It was not a hand held menue. I struggeled reading a menue at the shopping mall. You know where the menues are up on the wall behind the cashier.

Carrie 13 Mar 2016, 02:43

Zoe - because you are still at school and are probably getting close to starting a long period of exams and a lot of studying for those exams you are doing the right thing in getting your eyes tested. If the menu that you had trouble with was a hand held one that you get in restaurants you are likely to need glasses for reading. Glasses will make the text in books and on computer screens really clear and comfortable to read (they will make looking at your phone more comfortable too!) so your eyes won't get so tired.

I sometimes wonder if I had got glasses when I was at school I might have done a bit better in my exams. I was 17 and at college when I got my first glasses. That was about 5 1/2 years ago and my prescription is currently +2.50 in one eye and +3.00 in the other. I love getting new glasses fitted as the assistant will gently brush my hair back behind my ears with their fingers. I find that very arousing, especially if it's an attractive female assistant.(I am a lesbian in case you were wondering)

Likelenses 13 Mar 2016, 01:44

previous post was from me.

l 13 Mar 2016, 01:41


This may give you a rough idea of the outcome on Monday.

Likelenses 13 Mar 2016, 00:51


Most of us that are nearsighted,thought that we were seeing alright,or thought we had a small problem.

Then when we went to the optometrist,and at the point during the exam. that he began placing test lenses in front of our eyes ,did we realize that we were not seeing well,especially when he removed the lenses,and we noticed a lot of blur.

Then when our new glasses were ready,and the optician first put them on us it was a whole new world.It is an experience that you will never forget.

If you are nearsighted you will not want to take your glasses off,when you experience your newly corrected vision.

Zoe 13 Mar 2016, 00:38


Thank you so much for sharing. It is greatly appreciated.

Zoe 12 Mar 2016, 22:02

Cactus Jack

I am fifteen years old and still a junior in school. Thank you for referring me to your earlier post, it was helpful


Thank you for all of your insight.

Carrie 12 Mar 2016, 19:25

Zoe - nothing to be scared of. I think the only part you might not like is when they check the pressure inside your eyes. The machine puffs a quick blast of air on to your eyeball. It's not painful, just a bit odd feeling and might make your eyes water a bit but it's all part of the very important procedure of checking the health of your eyes. They will check your vision for distance and reading and advise you what you need glasses for.

I first realised I needed glasses when I tried on ready made reading glasses which made text really sharp. After I got proper prescription glasses I soon found I could see through them at all distances not just reading so I wore them all the time. At my next eye test I got a stronger prescription and was told that I should wear my glasses for distance as well as for reading. I had planned on wearing my new glasses full time anyway. It turns out that my prescription has gradually been increased each time so I can get used to it easier as I have latent hyperopia which means that my eyes were a lot worse than I realised and I managed to compensate until I noticed I needed glasses. I actually need my glasses full time now. I can see without glasses, it's just uncomfortable and slightly out of focus (well, very out of focus close up).

I'm not saying this is what will happen with you. You might have the same prescription you get on Monday for the rest of your life.

Wearing my glasses didn't make my eyes worse it showed me how bad they already were.

Soundmanpt 12 Mar 2016, 16:02


There is no reason to feel scared or nervous about getting your eyes examined or with getting glasses if which it seems you have a pretty good chance your going to be getting. You can go back in this same thread and likely find comments from others about getting their eyes examined as well as getting their first glasses. The eye exam should take about 45 minutes. There won't be anything painful done to you. You will go through a lot of the which is better type questions and if yo don't understand what is being asked don't be afraid to ask. If your not sure which is better answer that way. When the exam is finished be sure to ask for a copy of your prescription because most places don't provide you with that unless you ask for it. The simple reason is they want you to come back to them for your glasses needs. But if you ask for it they will gladly provide it to you and then if you post it in here we can better tell you what all the numbers mean in regard to your eyes. Once you finish the eye exam I assume the place you will be getting your eye exam done at also sells glasses so you will likely head over to where they have the frames mounted on the wall or shelves and start trying on frames. I personally think you should plan on leaving yourself plenty of time for this process which I would suggest nothing less than an hour. I'm sure an assistant will come to help you with picking out glasses. Their advice is usually really good because they will know best the proper size glasses that fit your face shape and size best. Once you pick out the frames you will be asked several questions about your lenses for your glasses. Yes they have all sorts of options the will be trying to sell you. Your prescription is going to be a rather weak one so you won't be needing any special thinner lenses. Most lenses now come as scratch resistant and the one thing i do highly recommend that you do get for your lenses is the AR coating (anti-reflective) They will probably offer you several versions of the AR coating (good, better and best) and each one will cost a little bit more than the other. In your case it is up to you but if it were me I would stay with the least expensive one since your insurance won't cover it anyway.But even the least expensive one should work okay for you and since I assume that you might drive and your probably going to be told that you now need to wear glasses fro driving having the AR coating is very helpful driving at bight because it really cuts down on glare and reflections. Because these are going to be your first glasses and it will take a bit of getting used to wearing them many people that get full plastic frames seem to have a problem at first with being able to see the frame so well. You may want to check out a semi-rimless frame. That is a frame that only has a frame across the top and no frame around the bottom. You also may need to be thinking about the type of nose pad pads you like. Plastic frames have molded nose pads that don't adjust and wire frame glasses usually have adjustable nose pads. You should expect that you will be told that your glasses will be ready in about 4 days to a week. Since you seem pretty sure that your going to be getting glasses, which i think your probably right about, you probably should start telling everyone you know that your probably going to be getting glasses soon. That way when you get them it will be that much easier to wear them in front of people for the first time which i'm sure you may already be thinking about. Hope this helped you somewhat.

Cactus Jack 12 Mar 2016, 15:50


May I ask your age and occupation?

I posted HOW TO STUDY FOR AN EYE EXAM on December 27, 2015 on this Vision thread. It is in 2 parts. You might find it helpful.

You can scroll down on this thread, but because of a display limitation, you may have to scroll to the bottom of the posts and click to see more posts. Please let me know if you cannot find it and I will try to repost it.


Zoe 12 Mar 2016, 12:47

I have my first eye exam since primary school on monday, and I am pretty nervous. I feel like I see okay, but could not help but notice I had trouble reading a menue last month. I suppose this means I will be needing glasses. For some reason I thought I had successfully escaped needing glasses, but now it seems likely. I am sort of scared. I was hoping people could share their experiences from when they first got glasses, and from their eye exams. Hearing other people's stories may ease the nervousness.

astigmaphile 09 Mar 2016, 14:06

Cactus Jack,

I wish that people would learn that legally blind is 20/200 with correction. A myopic person with horrible vision bare eyed is functionally blind.

Cactus Jack 08 Mar 2016, 21:32


It is probably a psychological need to be a victim of something. It may be similar to someone saying that they are legally blind, when they can be corrected to 20/20 with glasses or contacts.


Weirdeyes 08 Mar 2016, 12:43

One interesting thing I've noticed is people with similar prescriptions having totally different descriptions of their eyesight. My current prescription is R +1.00, -0.75 L +4.25, -1.50. A lot of people with similar prescriptions say their vision without glasses is bad or they're blind without their glasses. I'm talking about people without cylinder. My vision is pretty uncomfortable and my depth perception is awful without glasses, but I wouldn't say my vision is bad. Any reason why people with similar prescriptions to mine would say their vision is "bad"? Is it because of the high number in one eye?

John S 06 Mar 2016, 20:08

At 13, my first rx was +1.00, add +1.75 for both eyes.

I am 60 now and it really hasn't changed a lot. +1.00 -0.75 X 95, +1.25 -0.75 X 75 add +2.50.

KL 06 Mar 2016, 17:29

Mine started out at either -2.00/-2.25 or -2.25/-2.50 at the age of 13. I had two prescription changes after that, the second at 18 which was either -3.25/-3.75 or -3.50/-4.00.

There was another one four years after that, but all I remember is that it had gone down some (and the optometrist wondered if I'd hit my head to make that happen.)

Last one nearly a year ago was -2.50/-3.00 - not sure how that compares to the previous one, as I don't have that prescription written down and can't find the glasses to try them.

So pretty much the usual/expected increase followed by a decrease - and I'm not middle aged and don't have cataracts. I also didn't try to get overcorrected at 18 - I went for a check because street signs were becoming a little iffy.

Galileo 06 Mar 2016, 16:38

hi Puffin, my scrip was something like -0.75/-0.50 with a bit of astigmatism in one eye 40 years ago and has barely changed, in fact after my last Rx did change I shared it and Cactus Jack said it was the same script just written differently. About 10 years ago the optician started to put an add +1 on but so far I have not taken that up - I can manage what close work I need to do without and I don't get headaches (yet). And I rarely wear my glasses anyway. The Rx is not high enough to require me to wear them for driving, though I do wear them for driving out of choice. I like seeing the street signs a second or two earlier than I can without.

Melyssa 04 Mar 2016, 05:51

Or in my case, both ways -- going from -1.75/-1.50 to -9.00 over a 28-year period, and staying the same for the past 24 years.

Dan 04 Mar 2016, 05:11


I first got glasses my senior year of high school with a prescription something like:

OD -0.50 -0.50 x 90

OS Plano --0.50 x 90

nine years later, I'm 26 and my prescription is:

OD -1.5 -0.25 x 90

OS -1.5

I clearly show the no sky rocketing trend. By biggest increase came after my sophimore and junior year of college when I went from my origin prescription to -.75 after my soph yr and then to -1.25 after my junior. All in all a pretty boring progression.

Puffin 03 Mar 2016, 17:24

I know we've all heard stories, real and imagined of people who have got glasses and then their prescription rockets upward...

But what about those that get glasses, and then their RX doesn't change at all, or perhaps only a little in years?

We never seem to hear much about that. Anyone care to share?

Likelenses 25 Feb 2016, 22:02

Although this is a supposed eyesight improvement site ,the ,myopia calculator is interesting,and seems very accurate.

Cactus Jack 18 Feb 2016, 13:21


You may be just a tiny bit Hyperopic in your Left eye and what is called Emmetropic in your Right eye (no correction required). Not to worry, we just needed a starting point.

What you need to do is order some Glasses from Zenni Optical with the following prescription.

OD (Right Eye) Sphere -1.00, Cylinder 0.00, Axis 0

OS (Left Eye)Sphere -1.00, Cylinder 0.00, Axis 0

You will need to measure your PD - it is easy you just need a rule calibrated in mm and your bathroom mirror. We will tell you how or you can check the Zenni site. I suggest you get familiar with the Zenni site and learn how it works.

I suggest you order some glasses with $6.95 frames (scroll down to the Quicklinks for 6.95 glasses), Standard 1.50 lenses and maybe the $4.95 Anti-Reflective coatings. Shipping will be about $5.00. You can order some more expensive frames, but the $6.95 frames are OK and as you will notice below, you are going to need several pairs of glasses that you will not wear very long before moving to a higher prescription.

You will need a credit card and a mailing address.

Depending on your budget, you might consider ordering a second pair with Sphere -2.00 and the same frames.

The trick will be figuring out how to establish a need in the minds of your Parents, Friends and relatives AND What appears to be a legitimate Eye Exam.

You need to deal with getting the glasses first.

Ideally, what you need to do is start wearing the the -1.00 glasses as much as possible. Then switch to the -2.00. full time, If you don't change the frame, you can probably switch and no one will notice. In private you can wear the -2.00 with the -1.00 over them as much as possible. Particularly when studying. Then order -3.00 and-4.00 glasses, again with the same frame. You get the idea.

The important thing is to have a plan and then execute it.

We should move this to the Induced Myopia thread or if you wish to contact me privately use

CJB 18 Feb 2016, 12:06

Cactus Jack

I was able to do the test with an old pair of my dad's 1.50 drugstore glasses last night. I measured my distances in inches, and did it three times for each eye. The distances I got for the left are- 26 and 5/8 of an inch, 26 and 5/16 of an inch and 27 inches. For my right I got 26.25 inches, 26 and 3/8 of an inches and 26.25 inches again. Also, I felt like clarifying the fact that I do not just want to wear glasses, I want to need them. I would really like to get my eyes to be one myopic, preferably to a point where the glasses I need are thick, or at least not the kind where I would be able to get along perfectly fine without my glasses.

Cactus Jack 18 Feb 2016, 10:03


Are you still around? Curious how the glasses are working out.


Cactus Jack 17 Feb 2016, 19:15


Many people, who do not understand the symptoms of low myopia, get an eye exam and give the examiner the wrong symptoms. If his findings on the Objective part of the exam to not agree with the symptoms provided and what you say on the Subjective part of the exam, you may not get a prescription. The Objective part of the exam occurs when the examiner either uses an Auto-Refractor or an instrument called an Ophthalmoscope or Retinoscope to look into your eyes. With either method, he/she know with in a small fraction of a diopter what your prescription will be. You can't cheat and you should not try. There is a better way.

If you want to get some MINUS glasses, you need to do one of two things. Get an eye exam with consistent symptoms that result in a Low Minus prescription. Or, order some low cost glasses online with an appropriate prescription. Or a combination of both. We can help you with all of this, but you will need to follow instructions and answer all the questions we ask. There are several obstacles to overcome. We have been there, done that, and and got both the T-Shirt and the glasses.

Think of this as a practical learning adventure into the world of Optical Physics and Physiology of the Eye. It is not hard, and when you have accomplished your objective, you will know more about these subjects than 99% of your class mates.

The first thing you need to do is the simple eye test I mentioned earlier. The results of that text will guide further actions.

1. You need to get an inexpensive pari of Over-the-counter (OTC) 1.50 or 1.75 readers. The reason you DO NOT want to use borrowed prescription glasses is that it might have some Cylinder correction and you don't want that for this test.

Optical Principles behind the test

This test makes use of Sir Isaac Newton's most basic equation that relates Focus Distance and Lens Power in Diopters. The idea of the OTC readers is to make you Myopic or Nearsighted by a known amount and then measure the distance where small text just gets fuzzy. By creating the effect of being nearsighted, we move the place where text just starts to get fuzzy into a range we can easily measure with surprising accuracy and then use that number to compare with where the text should have been getting fuzzy based on the lens power. The test is done with each eye individually.

1. In normal room lighting (not too bright), put on the reading glasses. Distant things should be a bit blurry.

2. Close one eye and hold the book or newspaper close, say 6 inches and then move it gradually away until the small text just begins to get fuzzy.. Note the distance.

3. Repeat step 2 at least 3 times and average the distances.

4. Close the other eye and repeat test step 2 and 3 at least 3 times and average the results.

4. Let me know the results.

I will do some simple calculations which you can also do to get a pretty good idea of just how nearsighted the OCT readers made you using Sir Isaac's equation.

If you used +1.50 glasses and DO NOT have any refractive error, the small letter should have started getting fuzzy at:

Focal Distance = 1 meter. 100 cm, 1000 mm or 39.37 inches / 1.50 (the units of measure have to be consistent.

If you used inches, it would be 39.37 / 1.50 = 26.25 inches

If you used +1.75 glasses, it would be 39.37 / 1.75 = 22.5 inches

If you got different distances than the above, it means that you have some refractive error and we need to account for that difference in choosing the next steps.

After this test, I will suggest an online test for Astigmatism.

Some other things we can help you with. If you order online you will need a Credit Card of some kind and be able to receive a small package in the mail, possibly confidentially.


Cactus Jack 17 Feb 2016, 14:34


Thank you. I think you might be able to Induce some Myopia or just wear some MINUS glasses if you want to. I have a simple test I would like you to perform to get an idea of any existing refractive error. I am a bit tied up this afternoon, but should be able to outline the test this evening.

Have you taken nay math or science courses?

The only thing you will need for the test is a pair of non-prescription reading glasses in the +1.50 to +1.75 range, a book or newspaper, and a tape measure or yard stick. I will explain the theory and the test in my next post. You may be able to pick up some very inexpensive +1.50 or + 1.75 reading glasses at a "Dollar" store. Optically, they are not very good, but they are good enough for this purpose. You can also use borrowed +1.50 or +1.75 readers, but you probably don't want prescription glasses unless you know that they only have Sphere correction. You don't want stronger or weaker reading glasses because they make the test harder. The test only takes 15 - 20 minutes. After that, the reading glasses are not of much value.

BTW, I live in Houston. so there should not be much of a time of day issue.


CJB 17 Feb 2016, 12:18

Soundmanpt, and Cactus Jack

Thanks for responding. You guys were very helpful.

To answer your questions Cactus Jack

1.17, Male


3.I work after school and on weekends at a call place

4.I am not in college yet

5.My 4 year old niece wears minus glasses. Other than that I do not know. Both my parents were adopted, so my direct family and my sister's family are the only blood relatives I have.

Soundmanpt 17 Feb 2016, 09:50


All the questions that "Cactus Jack" has asked you are very important to know to better determine if you're a good candidate for "Inducing Myopia" (making yourself nearsighted). But even if you're not in the prime age to create a need for glasses you can still wear prescription glasses if you want without any problem. If you research the "Induced Myopia" thread you will see where several in there that wear glasses daily with -3.00 or stronger lenses and yet they still have perfect eyesight without their glasses. So since it just seems like you want to be able to wear real glasses I am sure you will at the very least be able to wear a decent prescription. In order to induce myopia once you get your glasses you will need to learn that you will need to put your glasses on as soon as you open your eyes each day and don't take them off until you close your eyes for bed that night. You're actually training your eyes to only see with corrective lenses. Everyone seems to think that inducing needs strong glasses. But if there too strong it makes it really hard for the wearer to see very well and that usually leads to them taking their glasses off too much. To avoid question from friends and co-workers or fellow students you want to do everything just as you would if you went and got your eyes examined and found out that you need glasses. I would suggest that you start by complaining to people that you're having trouble seeing things in the distance and let them know you plan on getting you eyes examined, which of course you don't need to do. Then mention to them that your going to be getting glasses soon. It's very rare for anyone to ever get even moderately strong glasses as their first glasses. So most would expect that your glasses would be on the weak side and really you need them to be on the weak side so you're able to see okay with them. Your first glasses I would suggest be around -.75 or maybe -1.00 but no more to start with. Not very strong but enough for your eyes to adjust to. You didn't say if you know how to go about getting your glasses or not? I highly recommend Zenni Optical ( for you to get your glasses from. You don't need a doctor's prescription to order your glasses. They offer well over 800 women's glasses and about the same for men for under $13.00. Since you're going to be wearing your glasses full time you really should include the optional AR coating (anti-reflective) because it relaxes your eyes because it cuts down on glare and reflections. That option is only an additional $5.00 and shipping is $5.00 more. So you can expect to pay about $23.00 for your glasses. You will have them within 2 weeks of placing your order. I can offer you tips on making sure that you get glasses that fit your face properly by size. Do you have any idea what type of glasses you want to wear? I mean do you want a full plastic frame or maybe a semi-rimless frame or something else? If your unsure you may want to stop in at an optical store and try on frame to determine what looks best on you. The sales person will ask to help you and you may even let them make suggestions for you. Just tell them that you have your own doctor that you go to for your eye exam and you still need to do that but you just want to get a head start in picking out glasses.

You were concerned if an optometrist (eye doctor) could tell that you worsened your eyes. The answer is no there is no way they would know.

Cactus Jack 16 Feb 2016, 21:58


What you want to do is called Inducing Myopia (nearsightedness). There is even a thread for that on this site. You cannot Induce Hyperopia (farsightedness), but sometimes people have it and not know it. Or Hyperopia xnu be so mild that you can correct it internally without even being aware that your are doing it.

There are several factors that govern your ability to Induce Myopia. The most important factor is your genes. The second most important factor is your age.

Lets start with these questions. They may seem unrelated, but please trust me because the answers affect my suggestions

1. What is your age and gender?

2. Where do you live?

3. What is your occupation?

4. If you are a student, what are you studying?

5. Do any of your parents, grandparents, or other blood relatives wear MINUS glasses?

Depending on your answers, I may ask you to do some simple tests to help determine how to address your wishes.

I hope 'CJ' does not confuse our other members. I won't insist, but would you consider another nickname?


CJ 16 Feb 2016, 17:31

Hey guys! For as long as I can remember I have always thought glasses are super attractive, and I hsve always wanted glasses. Unfortunatly everytine I get my eyes checked I grt told I do not need glasses. What I am wonderibg how exactly could I get my eyes to become nearsighted? I especialy love the nearsighted glasses, but if I could make myself farsighted that would be fine too. The reasib why I am asking is because I remember reading sonething online about a year ago about how some lady really wsnted ti be nearsighted so she made it happen. I cannot remember where I read it. Was it just some wish story, or could there be truth to her story. Is it possible to make your eyesight change and to get yourself to beed glasses? If so, how would I go about it? How long before I would need glasses? Would an eye doctor be able to tell I worsened my eyesight?


astigmaphile 12 Feb 2016, 15:50


The last time I ordered lined bifocals from Zenni the price with shipping was $31.90.

Soundmanpt 12 Feb 2016, 13:28


Okay I didn't know that where your at the postage is $9.99 because here in the US it is only $4.95. And really even if for some reason the glasses don't work you know you can return them and get 50% of your money back so it isn't that much of a risk really.

A lot depends on what type of frames your getting and how big the frame is. A full plastic frame shouldn't be bad at all. I have ordered glasses with very close to the same strength as your glasses and because they were only backups to their contacts they really didn't care if the lenses looked thick or not and they turned out looking great.

Jillian 12 Feb 2016, 11:54


Do you think my lens will be very thick,its ok just wondering

Jillian 12 Feb 2016, 11:51

Hi Soundmanpt

Second pair only cost $34 so i need 2 pairs incase I break a pair and postage for a second pair would have been $9.99'

I was amassed how clear reading my cell phone was with the test reading glasses I found it almost impossible to read it with the distance lens he put in. He made me keep the testing glasses on with distance lens in for 15 mins and told me to walk about every thing in the distance was so clear but cell phone was a complete blur ,but when i took them off i felt blind even when i put my old glasses back on i had a problem seeing

I went straight back to the other shop and demanded my money back. '

Soundmanpt 12 Feb 2016, 10:51


Your new prescription is considerably different from the first one you got. In fact if it were me I would be going back to where you got your previous eye exam and demanding my money back. Not only is it quite a bit off but as you can see they even wrote it wrong for you as well. Not very competent if you ask me.

But I am curious as to why your ordering 2 pairs of glasses? Even though Zenni has very good prices bifocals still run about $50.00. I would think you would want to just get one pair first to see how well they work for you and then once you feel comfortable with them then order a 2nd pair. But let's look on the positive side and hope that they work great for you.

Jillian 12 Feb 2016, 10:40

Thank you for your advise today I went to a different eye dr and had a retest

OD Sph -5.75 Cyl -2.00 Axis 180 ADD +2.00

OS Sph -3.75 Cyl -1.50 Axis 180 ADD =2.00

I have ordered 2 pairs of 1.50 D28 lined bifocals from Zenni tonight I did not want to pay the extra for 1.61 as i not worn this prescription yet.

I hope this helps me with the double vision for reading

THE dr said my new lens would be thicker but as long as i can see better that's ok

Cactus Jack 09 Feb 2016, 15:08


There are many things that can affect a person's prescription. The only thing cataract surgery affected was her Crystalline Lenses. There are actually 4 lenses in the Eye's Lens system. Only one of which is the Crystalline Lens. We typically ignore the Aqueous Humor and Vitreous Humor when considering the elements that make up 2 of the 4 lenses, but blood chemistry, particularly Blood Glucose levels can cause a prescription change in the Refractive Index of the Humors. Also, astigmatism, which is caused by uneven curvature of the front surface of the cornea can change over time.

If you want better analysis, we need her prescription after Cataract Surgery and her most recent prescription.


Elaine 09 Feb 2016, 13:15

My mother in law had cataract surgery a long time ago..10 years? They gave her monovision which seems to have served her well. Now she tells me she had an exam and needs to wear glasses for driving. I thought that after her cataracts were fixed and she got mono-vision she would be done with glasses. Why not?

Soundmanpt 09 Feb 2016, 11:16


A lot can happen in 9 months time but it is possible depending on your age that when you got your eyes examined they didn't do too much checking of your close vision. If your on the younger side they wouldn't pay as much attention as they would if you were say over 40.

Like so many others before you it is interesting how many find out that they need glasses by trying on a friend's glasses or in your case a co worker's. It is very normal that when you looked out the window things were blurry. Her glasses are for close up not distance. Based on the various comments everyone was making it sounds like her glasses are probably on the weak side if some said they didn't even make any difference and other said they were too weak. So of course you can book an appointment to get your eyes checked again and this time be sure to mention how well you were able to see with your co worker's glasses or next time your out and about I suggest that you find a store that sells over the counter readers. The power is marked on them. Find a pair that is +1.00 or +1.25 and try them on and most places even have a board with type on it to test the glasses with. If not simply go and find a magazine or book and test them that way. You should be able t find a really nice pair for under $20.00. If you work in an office where yo do a good deal of close work you should probably put them on as soon as you get into work and not take them off until the end of your work day. They may take a little getting used to but don't be surprised that your eyes may feel much more relaxed by the end of the day. You could also ask your co worker if she has any idea what the prescription of her glasses is but if she got them from her optician she probably won't know. But you could ask her if she would mind calling and asking what it is if you want the same prescription as hers.

BJ 09 Feb 2016, 10:16

I had a regular eye exam last year, and was told I don't need glasses yet. A co-worker came in to work yesterday wearing new glasses she says are for close work. She was having trouble reading her phone, so decided to have her eyes checked. As she passed her new glasses around, comments ranged from "they aren't strong enough" from long time wearers, to they really don't make much of a difference. When they finally made it to me, I found they blurred everything out the window, but made everything close bolder and darker. If I didn't need glasses 9 months or so ago, what is the liklihood that now I do need them? The tiny print was particulary clear.

Cactus Jack 07 Feb 2016, 10:07

Sorry for the double post. Slow response from the computer.


Cactus Jack 07 Feb 2016, 10:06


I strongly suggest that you get another eye exam before ordering glasses. Don't bother looking for -0.28 Cylinder correction. It does not exist in the real world. I am wondering if you may have been given a fake prescription so you CAN NOT order satisfactory glasses from another source. It is more common than you think with some Optical Chains. DO NOT go back to the same Eye Care Professional or the same Optical Chain for a second exam. If you order online, you will need your PD, which is not hard to measure, if you don't know it. Bifocals will have 2 PDs written as a fraction (64/61) or as two PDs, one for Near and one for Far.

It is faintly possible that you have some Pseudo Myopia, but it typically does not go away suddenly and IF it went away it would not yield the same prescription in each eye.

The lined bifocals you described are the shape of the Reading Segment.

Round - is just a circular area about 25 to 30 mm in diameter with more PLUS or less MINUS in the lower part of the lens. It is not very common these days.

D28 also known as FT28 is a "D" shaped segment that has a Flat Top that is 28 mm across. This is the most common type of Lined Bifocal.

D35 or FT35 is a "D" shaped segment that is 35 mm across. It gives a wider field of view in the reading segment. It is much less common than FT28.

Executive - is a reading segment that goes all the way across the lens. It is like the original bifocal lens created by Benjamin Franklin in the late 1700s. Executive Bifocals are often used as "work" glasses by Accountants or others who do a lot of close reading work. Typically, they also have a pair of FT28s or Progressives that they wear when not doing actual close work. Executive bifocals are not very attractive glasses.

My suggestion for Lined Bifocals for everyday wear is D28 or FT28 (same thing). Then, if you find that you need a wider field of view for close focusing help, explore other options. We can help you with that.

It is helpful to know your occupation when suggesting what style of bifocals you might find most useful. Also, it is helpful to know where you live. (country)


Cactus Jack 07 Feb 2016, 10:05


I strongly suggest that you get another eye exam before ordering glasses. Don't bother looking for -0.28 Cylinder correction. It does not exist in the real world. I am wondering if you may have been given a fake prescription so you CAN NOT order satisfactory glasses from another source. It is more common than you think with some Optical Chains. DO NOT go back to the same Eye Care Professional or the same Optical Chain for a second exam. If you order online, you will need your PD, which is not hard to measure, if you don't know it. Bifocals will have 2 PDs written as a fraction (64/61) or as two PDs, one for Near and one for Far.

It is faintly possible that you have some Pseudo Myopia, but it typically does not go away suddenly and IF it went away it would not yield the same prescription in each eye.

The lined bifocals you described are the shape of the Reading Segment.

Round - is just a circular area about 25 to 30 mm in diameter with more PLUS or less MINUS in the lower part of the lens. It is not very common these days.

D28 also known as FT28 is a "D" shaped segment that has a Flat Top that is 28 mm across. This is the most common type of Lined Bifocal.

D35 or FT35 is a "D" shaped segment that is 35 mm across. It gives a wider field of view in the reading segment. It is much less common than FT28.

Executive - is a reading segment that goes all the way across the lens. It is like the original bifocal lens created by Benjamin Franklin in the late 1700s. Executive Bifocals are often used as "work" glasses by Accountants or others who do a lot of close reading work. Typically, they also have a pair of FT28s or Progressives that they wear when not doing actual close work. Executive bifocals are not very attractive glasses.

My suggestion for Lined Bifocals for everyday wear is D28 or FT28 (same thing). Then, if you find that you need a wider field of view for close focusing help, explore other options. We can help you with that.

It is helpful to know your occupation when suggesting what style of bifocals you might find most useful. Also, it is helpful to know where you live. (country)


Jillian 07 Feb 2016, 01:57

I have been looking on the internet there seems to be 4 different types of bifocals round,D28 D35 and executive i'm not sure which to order after my retest

Jillian 07 Feb 2016, 01:43

Yes i not want to spend money on glasses and find they useless

Weirdeyes 07 Feb 2016, 01:38

I actually think it's a good idea to go to a different eye doctor when you have a weird prescription change.

Jillian 07 Feb 2016, 01:27


I have not ordered my glasses yet.

I am happy to wear bifocals,my boyfriend said i will look sexy wearing them i will get lined bifocals but not sure yet which type i will order there seems to be many types of lined bifocals but it seems strange that my right eye has gone from -5.75 to -3.75 in 6 months also -28 seems strange as i have looked on the internet and cant see -28 on any of the sites my distance vision in my glasses i have now is fine i only went for a test because of reading cell phone.

Likelenses 07 Feb 2016, 00:57


I would wait on making a second appointment until you have tried the new glasses.

I am sure you need the bifocals,and if your myopia has gotten to the point that you need a balanced Rx,that is a good thing.

Besides bifocals are quite sexy!

Jillian 07 Feb 2016, 00:44

I don't have my new glasses yet i think i will go to another eye dr for a second test,There was no cylinder correction in my old prescription.

Likelenses 06 Feb 2016, 23:46


Do you have the new glasses.

I can understand your need for the bifocal part of your Rx,as you are having trouble seeing your phone,but it is strange that your distance part changed that much.

Was there any cylinder in your old prescription?

Jillian 04 Feb 2016, 22:28

Hi Cactus Jack

my last prescription was OD -4.00 OS -5.75

Cactus Jack 04 Feb 2016, 18:12


Maybe. It is rare to have the same exact prescription in each eye, I would interpret the prescription as

OD Sphere -3.75, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 95 Add +1.00

OS Sphere -3.75, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 95 Add +1.00

No tint

However, I am not 100% certain. The -0.28 cylinder is probably the result of a scribble. Cylinder is only typically offered in 0.25 diopter increments.

What your previous prescription?


Jillian  04 Feb 2016, 10:58

Hi Can you please explain my new prescription.i told the eye dr i was have problem reading my cell phone im 24 years old.

It seems strange both my eyes are exactly the same now .this prescription i was given was hand written.i just wonder if it written wrong

OD -3-75 DSPH -0.28 CYL 95

OS -3-75 DSPH -0.28 CYL 95

AD 100 /clear

many thanks

PleaseGuide 04 Feb 2016, 03:32

@Cactus Jack

I like to do GOC also,i will post on GOC thread..kindly reply me there

PleaseGuide 04 Feb 2016, 03:30

@Cactus Jack

Sorry for the late reply. Was busy for few days.

thanks for the quick response

These are the prescription values in the card

sphere - cylinder - axis


Right -no value - -1.25 - 90

-written here


Left -no value written - -1.0 - 90

I wish to get a myopia of -2 along with my current cylinder value, can u suggest a proper prescription on this?

Cactus Jack 31 Jan 2016, 12:10


It may be to late for this suggestion, but here it is anyway.

I would suggest that you consider and Anti-Reflective coating on your glasses. Glasses that have mostly Prism with very little Sphere or Cylinder can have funny reflection characteristics, it depends on how the glasses are made. A pure optical prism has flat surfaces that can reflect light like a mirror or the fake (window glass) glasses you used to see on TV or in the Movies. Most glasses, even those with Minus lenses, have Plus curve in front surface (called the Base Curve) so light source reflections will appear much smaller than actual size.

The actual power of the lens depends on the difference between the curvature of the front surface and the back surface plus a few other factors, such as the Index of Refraction of the lens material. Lens Makers try to avoid either flat or concave front surfaces even in Minus lenses, until the prescription gets very high.

The wearer rarely sees these reflections, but other people do and it can be very distracting.

I don't think AR coatings would be worth the extra cost in you children's glasses. Many places that sell glasses get premium prices for AR coatings and other "up sell" items. Anti-Scratch and UV protective coatings are worth the money unless the lens material itself is scratch resistant and does not transmit UV very well.

The exception to the AR comment is Zenni, they offer a good AR coating for only about $5.00.


Roy 30 Jan 2016, 13:14


Sorry but I tend to find frames I like and recycle them with new lenses when required. (I always keep a spare pair with my current prescription to use when lenses are being changes or if the frame gets damaged.) This means I don't really have any spare frames to sell to you.

Roy 30 Jan 2016, 13:08

Thanks for your reply Cactus. As it happens I have a scientific/engineering background so I do understand your reference to open and closed loop systems.

I think I will delay the eye test for a little while as my vision seems OK, and try some more tests at different times of the day, and perhaps purchase a set of prism bars to make testing easier. I also have a few stick-on fresnel prisms so I may try them for a day or two at a time and try and find the most comfortable amount of prism to suggest to the optician.

Cactus Jack 30 Jan 2016, 06:04


The amount of prism correction you need is not like the amount of Sphere or Cylinder correction you need. Eye motility is highly variable and what you are experiencing is typical.

I need t talk a bit technical here, so if I use unfamiliar terms, please bear with me. Servo system are the name of control system that typically move or position things. There are two basic types of Servo Systems. One is called Closed Loop Servos and Open Loop Servos. CNC Lathe and Milling Machines are examples of Closed Loop systems. Modern precision Machine Tool Control Systems KNOW the exact position of the cutting tool to within 0.0001 inch or mm.. Open Loop systems are not as precise and their control systems use the RESULTS of a movement to judge the adjustments needed in position.

The body is full of Open Loop servo systems that often use inputs from the eyes to refine hand, finger, and occasionally foot positions. The Open Loop Eye Positioning System (EPS) uses the images from the two eyes to decide the control inputs to the 6 muscles (in 3 opposing pairs) on each eyeball. The primary goal of the EPS is to fuse the two images into one, however the system actually has limited fusion range. If the images are widely separated as with "muscle imbalance" the EPS may not be able to recognize things to try to match up in the images. In general, Horizontal fusion uses Vertical Edges of objects and Vertical fusion uses Horizontal Edges as clues to what movement is necessary to fuse the images. If the EPS clues are close enough and easily discerned, the EPS will command necessary movement to fuse the images. If the clues are out of range or not sharp and clear, the EPS can't use them properly. Therefore, prisms correction only has to get the images close enough for the EPS to take over and fuse the images.

The amount of fusion effort can vary throughout the day, mostly related to fatigue. The eye positioning muscles are like any other muscles, they can get tired. It often takes effort and energy to overcome any tendency for the eyes to turn inward, outward, upward or downward. Often, it requires less apparent effort to keep images fused when you are fresh. However, when you get tired, the eye positioning muscles may tend to assume their "relaxed" position and more external prism will be required to move the images close enough to fuse. Horizontal position errors are easier to correct because the EPS does that rather frequently. Vertical position errors are harder to correct internally because there is rarely a need to move the eyes in different directions vertically.

My suggestion, when it comes to prism, is go for comfort, but be aware that significant prism in glasses can affect Visual Acuity. This is particularly true, if the ECPs do not get the location of the Optical Center of the lens so that it is co-incident with the Central Axis of Vision from each eye.

I hope this helps.


Cactus Jack 30 Jan 2016, 05:20


Many people with mild Myopia and little or no Astigmatism, often do not use their glasses for reading or using a computer. Myopia is like having built in reading glasses and the power of those reading glasses is the reverse of their Sphere prescription. If a person needs -2.00 for distance, their built in reading glasses are +2.00 and if you use Sir Isaac Newton's most fundamental formula for focus distance:

Focus Distance = 1 meter or 100 cm or 39.37 inches / Lens Power

you can calculate their natural focal distance. Astigmatism, which has a different cause, reduces their natural focal distance.

Occasionally, you will see people, in their late 30s to early 40s, who are mildly Myopic and need bifocals, wearing glasses with the bottom part of the lenses cut off. That gives them the effect of bifocals without the extra cost.


Cactus Jack 30 Jan 2016, 05:09


You did a Great job of estimating the prism. Sir Isaac's definitions still work. Your convergence is typically what you have to do to fuse images at normal reading distances. We have never discussed your occupation or your age, but I suspect you do a lot of close work.

Often, Myopia is inherited. Most often from the mother's side, but also from the father. Genetics is funny, it is likely that your 12 YO will skip having significant Myopia, but may develop some as his reading load increases in High School and University.

You need to keep a close watch on the 7 YO and 5 YO, their prescriptions will likely increase as they grow and they will probably break a few pairs of glasses. You might want to consider some inexpensive spares from someone like Zenni. We can teach you how to order some surprisingly high quality, single vision kids glasses for less than $15 without an Anti-Reflective coating or less than $20 with and AR coating. Yours may cost a little more because of the prism.

Kylee may get lucky. Almost all children are born with Hyperopia, but it is one of the amazing things about how vision develops as a child grows. We are not sure EXACTLY how it works, genetically. As the child grows, the eyeballs grow and again Sir Isaac's laws come into play. If the eyeball does not grow enough, Hyperopia is the result. If they grow too much, Myopia is the result. If everything works just right, no sphere correction is required until Presbyopia finally reduces their close focusing ability and PLUS help is needed to focus close.

One suggestion, I suggest you keep files of your children's prescriptions so you can track the changes over time. The changes are not important right now, but their visual history may become important in the future.

I think your 7 YO and 5 YO will be pleasantly surprised at what the world looks like with their glasses. For your 7 YO, everything beyond about 15 inches is increasingly fuzzy. You can get an idea of his vision by just putting on a pair of +2.75 readers. For the 5 YO, the distance is about 23 inches.

BTW, what did your 7 YO think about the eye exam?


Rick 29 Jan 2016, 22:42

Cactus Jack

My five year old's prescriptiom

Right eye- -1.75

Left eye- - 1.25, -0.5, 085

My 7 year old

Right eye -2.50, -0.75, 110

Left eye -2.75, -0.75, 015


Right eye -0.25, 5 base out 2 base up

Left eye -0.25, 5 base out 2 base down

For me the doctor said I could handle up to 7 base out in each eye, but he did not want to go that high especially for a first prescription.

Ellie 29 Jan 2016, 22:08

I've been noticing that a lot of myopic people who are college-aged, myself included, tend to look at things close up without glasses. For example, when looking at text or images on a small phone screen, my friend will often look above the lenses of his glasses. I have a similar tendency, and I have a friend who does the same thing when programming code on his computer. I wonder if more people need help close up than what is actually prescribed. In my case, it's not that I can't read the text, but it's often very small and I feel that getting a bigger image by looking over the top of my glasses gives me a better view.

Cactus Jack 29 Jan 2016, 14:43


Thanks for letting me know. It is good to get first glasses professionally fitted, but you may want to consider learning how to order high quality glasses on line. It is not hard and it can be a lot less expensive.

I would be interested in the prescriptions, particularly yours as "QA" feedback.


Rick 29 Jan 2016, 12:38

Well, today was the big day. We went in as a family of 5 with no glasses, and now we have three glasses wearers. My seven year old, my five year old, and I were prescribed glasses. The doctor also said that Kylee has some hyperopia, but he thinks it will go away, and did not prescribe her glasses. The seven year old has myopia, and astigmatism. The 5 year old also has myopia and astigmatism in one eye. As for me I have been precribed prism glasses for my double vision. The docotor also found a slight bit of astigmatism.

paul 29 Jan 2016, 05:29

roy,do you have any old prism glasses you would like to sell

Roy 29 Jan 2016, 04:39

Cactus Jack,

I know you area busy man but I would appreciate your thoughts on my prism correction if you have time.

I am currently wearing 22 BO shared prisms (plus 2 up left and 3 down right). I also have myopia of -2.25 right and -4.75 left, and an add of 3. I am due an eye test but, based on previous experience, am not confident that the optician will be able to get good measurements of the prism requirement.

I bought some prisms to do some checking myself but got inconsistent results.

Doing your prism test (repeated several times) I measured 31 base out (with no glasses). (My base up/down has been stable for many years and I did not investigate this.) I then did a bare-eyed double-vision check, holding prisms in front of my eyes, and was surprised to find that I was just able to stop the double vision with only 12 dioptres base-out (shared).

I then tried wearing my glasses and holding the prisms base-in, in front of them to see how much I could reduce the net prism and maintain fusion. I found I could hold fusion with 2 base-in, but lost it with 3, meaning I could not manage with less than 20 dioptres. I also found an old pair of glasses with 18 dioptres (shared) but had double-vision with them. I then tried using the prisms as base-out to increase the net prism and found I was comfortable with at least an extra 12 dioptres. In fact an extra 2 to 4 dioptres seemed to make my eyes more relaxed.

I have no reason to think my glasses were made incorrectly, with lees prism than they should have. The outer edge thickness off the lenses is about 13mm, which is consistent with 11 base out plus the myopia correction (with 1.6 index lens material).

I know the optician will ask for my thoughts on the current prism correction. (They always do this.) If I say it's OK (which it is basically) I expect they will leave it the same. Or should I try a bit less, as the bare-eyed test indicated, or perhaps a bit more to make my eyes more comfortable. Previous attempts by opticians to reduce the prism have been unsuccessful and I have had to go back to get glasses re-made with the lost prism restored. However I am not sure of the significance of the bare-eyed test which indicated that 12 dioptres may be enough.

I look forward to your thoughts.

 28 Jan 2016, 08:33


You really should post on the Induced Myopia thread.


Cactus Jack 28 Jan 2016, 08:22


You did not provide enough information to provide guidance. We need your Complete prescription that includes Sphere, Cylinder and Axis. and any other elements for each eye. Cylinder and Axis ALWAYS go together. One without the other is meaningless.

As a general rule for Inducing Myopia you ONLY increase the Sphere number by the SAME amount in each eye and you copy the Cylinder and Axis EXACTLY. If you change the Cylinder and Axis, it is very likely that you will not be able to wear the glasses without discomfort.

Your age is important. That usually affects how much additional MINUS you can tolerate in Sphere.


PleaseGuidee 28 Jan 2016, 02:01


Inducing myopia


I am a person who have glasses wih cylinder power -1.25left and 1 right

Can anyone give me a proper prescription table with all values for me to start inducing myopia ?

I mean i want like LE -1.5 cyl -1.75 RE -1.5 cyl 1.75.

Can you please tell me what should be the values for axis on both eyes?

Or any proper values of somebody with both astigmagtism and short sight under 2 will be fine?

I request everybody not to ask why i want to add more power.Please acknowledge my wish and help me by giveing a full prescription table to order a new glass online

Cactus Jack 27 Jan 2016, 19:12


Don't be too surprised if some Hyperopia shows up during the exam. Sometimes Double Vision is related to the presence of Hyperopia. If you think Double Vision is hard to explain, the interaction between Hyperopia, Latent or Hidden Hyperopia, Presbyopia, and Double Vision is even more "interesting", in the Chinese sense.

The Chinese have a saying "May you live in interesting times". It is a curse!


Cactus Jack 27 Jan 2016, 10:35


I am looking forward to hearing the results. All of what we discussed is based on Sir Isaac Newton's discoveries about how lenses work. I got into this because I wanted to understand problems with my own vision and the only tools I had to work with were the laws of Optics and my brain. Both positive and negative feedback really helps me refine my understanding and improve the my explanations.

I have done a lot of industrial teaching and get pleasure in helping "the light bulb come on". The big disadvantage in trying to do this on the web, is that I don't get to see the look on a person's face at the dawn of understanding. Their face literally lights up, usually with a 1000 watt smile and my grin is not very far behind. I hope you have experienced that moment when something similar happens with one of your children.

I sincerely hope all this helps you and I hope the "light came on" for you and together we opened some mental doors for you that you probably did not know existed. There are lots more "doors" out there that need opening.

If you have more questions, please feel free to ask.


Rick 27 Jan 2016, 09:27

Cactus Jack

Thank you for all your help. I will tell you how our exams go.

Cactus Jack 26 Jan 2016, 09:09


It appears that you did a very good job. I have no way to tell exactly, but if the distance from your target object was approximately 10 feet or 3 meters and your calibration of about 3 cm (a little over an inch) per prism diopter, your numbers should be in the ball park.

Using your approximate average numbers (rounded for simplicity) the two images you see should appear to be about 45 cm or 18 inches apart, horizontally and 10 cm or 4 inches, vertically.

Should you get glasses with some prism correction? Probably, but fundamentally, it is up to you. You seem to be able to function with out vision correction, but I think you could function better, more comfortably, and with less stress, if you didn't have double vision problems. Also, there could be some other vision issues that are not as obvious to you right now that, if corrected, would make your life more pleasant. You won't know that until after the exam.

You actually don't have a lot of Strabismus, but I am sure it seems like a lot to you. There is no way to predict what the examiner will recommend, but if he/she agrees with your findings, The prism prescription might be something like this

Right Eye Prism 4 Base Out 2 Base Up

Left Eye Prism 4 Base Out 2 Base Down

There might be other numbers such as Sphere, Cylinder, and Axis, but we have no way to estimate that. Also, because this is a first prescription with prism, the numbers might be less than that. Notice that I only used 1/2 of what we measured and I split the total amount and put 1/2 in each eye.

The effect on the glasses lenses would be that the outer edge of the lenses would be about 3 mm thicker than the inside edge and the upper edge of lens for the Right Eye would be a bit thicker than the lower edge and the Left Eye Lenses would be thicker on the bottom and slightly thinner on the top. All of these numbers are affected by the width and height of the lens and the Index of Refraction of the lens. The fact that your eyes are displaced slightly would likely not be noticeable to anyone but an ECP who is trained to notice that from a very close distance. However, it is likely that YOU would notice that you were not seeing double.

When you translate all these numbers back to horizontal or vertical displacement of the pupil. it is about 0.15 mm per prism diopter. For 4 prism diopters that would be 0.6 mm. If they are NOT an ECP and they get close enough to see that, they have something else in mind

What does it mean? Visual Comfort and getting on with the important things in your life. If you are concerned about what other people will think, don't be. Except for driving, you don't wear vision correction for other people's benefit.

BTW, it would probably be best to not mention our measurements to the ECPs. They have better tools and probably won't understand how what we did, works. However, you should mention your double vision problems so they will pay extra attention in that phase of the exam.


Rick 25 Jan 2016, 22:22

Cactus Jack

I read all your post on the prism thread of vision and spex, and I conducted the test, and I believe I did it correctly. I conducted the test 5 different times. The range of the results for the horizontal was from 13 to 16 and the range of the vertical was from 2.5 to 5.

1st. Horizontal- 13

Vertical- 2

2nd. Horizontal- 14

Vertical- about 2.5

3rd. Horizontal- 16

Vertical- 4

4th. Horizontal- 15

Vertical 5

5th. Horizontal- 16

Vertical- 4

I did averages of the results, and the Horizontal is 14.8 and the vertical is 3.5. So, what exactly does this mean glasses wise? Do I need glasses? What do you think the prescription would be? what does it mean?

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 16:52


Thanks, I look forward your results

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 16:41

Cactus Jack

I understand now, I have the materials needed, I will do this test later tonight, and will tell you whst results I get

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 16:14


Sorry to be slow responding, I've got a couple of business related balls in the air with now.

If we can get a pretty good number on the amount of displacement you are seeing, It will give us a clue as to how much Prism you may need in glasses, IF it was fully corrected. Typically, you do not fully correct with Prism. All you really need to do is use enough TOTAL prism to get the images close enough for the eye positioning system to take over and finish the job. Lets say that you measure 12 Prism Diopters of Displacement. It is very likely that you would be prescribed 6 Total Diopters of Base Out Prism with it split, 3 Base Out in each eye.

On the Vision and Spex site, go to the last thread listed Vision/ Special etc > Prisms > on the 2nd page there is an article entitled "Simple Prism Test" I posted Nov 16, 2013.


Rick 25 Jan 2016, 15:21

Okay, I get the numbering system thing, but am still confused on what I will be looking at it for. Can you give an example, I find they work best in explaining. I got to vision and spex, but where is what you want me to look for?

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 14:43


I found it if you want to read it. Do you know how to log on to the Vision & Spex website?

Cactus Jacl 25 Jan 2016, 14:34


The 5, 10, 15 diopter marks would be a 15 cm intervals because our calibration is 3 cm per diopter. I like to put a big mark every 5 diopters and number them. Usually the small 1 diopter marks are not worth individual numbers and the big marks help me count the small marks. The adding machine tape is just a very specialized ruler, marked in Prism Diopters, to be read from a distance of 10 feet.

I try to align the beginning of the markings "0" with the object or if not convenient I create a reference mark with a vertical arrow pointing at the "0".

You read the tape with both eyes open and you should be able to get a direct read of the separation of the two images in Prism Diopters.

I know it is not easy to get your mind around. Imaging what I went through the first time trying to figure out how to do it.

I think i posted the detailed instructions on the Vision and Spex site. Would you like for me to see if I can find it.?


Rick 25 Jan 2016, 14:08

You totally lost me with the arrow part. Anyways, how does this set up help calculate the amount of convergence?

Sorry for all the questions.

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 14:05

Cactus Jack

I understood everything until you said 5 diopters. Did you mean 5 cm? Also, what 0?

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 14:04

Did I loose you guys?


Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 13:49


We need to talk a little easy Trig and introduce the definition of a Prism Diopter as established by Sir Isaac Newton, of gravity fame. He defined 1 Prism Diopter as that amount of prism that will deflect a ray of light 1 cm at distance of 1 meter. If you think of a right triangle, with the eye at the apex, the Opposite Side (1 cm) divided by the Adjacent Side 1 meter or 100 cm) = a Tangent Function. All we have to do is use ratio and proportion to determine the effective displacement at 10 feet or about 3 meters. 1 Prism Diopter would displace a ray of light 3 cm or a little over an inch at a distance of 3 meters.

Now all that is necessary is to estimate the apparent displacement at 3 meters to get a pretty good idea of the amount of Esophoria you have.

One of the tricks I have used is to get a strip of adding machine tape and a Marker to make a strip calibrated in Prism Diopters for the distance from your eyes to the wall. In this instance, I would put a small mark every 3 cm and a big one every 5 diopters. I calibrate the tape on something that won't be damaged if the marker bleeds through. I then use easily removable tape and tape the strip to the wall very close to the target object and read the displacement of the images in diopters. Sometimes I make a short strip of tape with an Arrow and mount it vertically to point at 0 as a reference.

Does any of that make sense?


Rick 25 Jan 2016, 13:36

Cactus Jack

I am confused, how do I find out how much convergence there is? I was 10 feet away from the object I was looking at.

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 13:30


I am glad you corrected that. it is very important. If you see the image from the left eye on the left, that means that your eyes are trying to converge or turn inward. There are two medical terms for that, Esophoria and Esotropia. The difference is subtile and not important right now. "Eso" means that your eyes try to converge.

The next step is to try to figure out how much converges you have and my previous post applies.


Rick 25 Jan 2016, 13:25

Cactus Jack,

So, does this mean my eyes are converging (goin inwards)?

To answer the questions in yout last post I do have some knowledge of trig, and geometry. Also, in the previous test I was about 10 feet away from the object.

Hope my mistake does not mess up what you were planning on posting. I was typing that while talking on the phone with a manager in one of my shops.

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 13:22


I think you need some focusing help for close work, but may need only a little or possibly none for distance. That is why Benjamin Franklin invented Bifocals about 250 years ago. Of course there have been a few improvements since then.

However, we are not going to start there. We need to figure out why the readers didn't work of close up.

I am guessing that Over-the-Counter readers are available in South Africa as they are in most of the rest of the world. Unless they are familiar with optics and how the eyes work, most people initially choose Readers that are too strong. Readers are usually available in +1.00, +1.25, etc up to about +3.50 in +0.25 increments. Do you recall the + power of the readers you tried?


Rick 25 Jan 2016, 13:19

Cactus Jack

I am so sorry I misstyped in my last post. To clarify the image from my LEFT EYE is to the LEFT of the image Right EYE.

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 13:11


It sounds like your eyes may be trying to diverge or turn outward. If the image was on the left with your left eye, it would mean that your eyes are trying to converge or turn inward.

The next test is a little harder, but we can use it to get an estimate of how much your eyes are trying to turn outward. I am going to have to get a little technical here. Are you at all familiar with geometry and trigonometry? It is not absolutely essential, but I think it helps a little.

When you did the previous tests, how far was it from your eyes to the object you were using for the test. The more accurate the better, but we can start with a good guess


Jim 25 Jan 2016, 12:45

Cactus Jack

Retail Manager,south africa,yes frequently between close and distance,pc for six hours per day,yes on phone and tablet

What would you think the best prognosis be to correct this as readers don't seem any good.

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 12:29

Cactus Jack,

I did what you asked, and if I understood your question correctly the image in my left eye is to the right of the image in my right eye.

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 12:15


Welcome to the mysterious world of Presbyopia. It happens to almost everyone, eventually. The first thing you need to understand is that the idea that Presbyopia does not become a problem until you are 40 is a Myth. It can become a problem at almost any age, depending on your visual environment.

I would like to ask a few more questions, if I may. The answers will affect my suggestions.

1. What is your occupation?

2. Where do you live?

3. Do you need to switch frequently from distant to close and back to distant,

4. If you use a computer, do you use it for a long time?

5. Do you need to read small text on your Phone or Tablet and then switch to distance?

I may have a few more questions to help me understand your situation better.


Jim 25 Jan 2016, 11:41

Cacts Jack

Distant objects appear totally clear

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 11:26


Let me see if I understand your symptoms.

You are able to see distant objects and signs clearly, without any glasses.

However, if you shift your focus to something close, the close objects are blurry, even if they are at arms length. If you try very hard to focus, you get a headache.

Question: If you look at the distant object after your try to focus on the close object, is the distant object still clear?

Please tell me if I have the symptoms right or if I don't.


Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 11:06


I suspect that what you are seeing is mostly Horizontal and if that were corrected the vertical component would not be a problem. However, by combining Horizontal and Vertical prism you can correct almost any combination.

The next step is figuring out if your eyes are trying to turn inward (converge) or turn outward (diverge). This test uses the same technique as the prior test. Except it is in the form of a question.

When you are seeing two images, is the image you see with the Left Eye to the LEFT or RIGHT of the image you see with the Right Eye?


jim 25 Jan 2016, 11:04

Cactus Jack

Please could you help with a question because I am really not sure what causes this maybe you could give some advice.I am 36 year man, I have recently been noticing the following.when focusing on distant objects which are totally clearly viewed,once I shift focus to a computer or mobile phone or closer object it becomes totally blurred no matter if I move further or closer it remains the same.then takes great effort and a headache comes about.tried a paid of reading glasses in a pharmacy thinking this is presbyopia age related but they didn't help in any way.Would you have a suggestions on what this that is coming about..thanks again

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 08:48

Cactus Jack

Thabk you for your tine involved in helping me. It is truely appreciated.

I tried the test. At the beginning the image seemed to jump horizontally, but as I went on I noticed it was mostly horizontal, but there was some vertical movement too, but it was not as apparent. In conclusion I would have to say it moved diagonally.

What does this mean?

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 07:08

Oops, Slow response to my first "Submit"

Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 07:06


I have occasionally done multiple posts when the system is slow to respond and I am not sure I actually sent the post and click on the submit again.

I am pretty tied up today. Here is the first test.

1. Look at something across the room.

2. Hold your hand a few inches in front of your right eye so that you block the image.

3. Move your hand back and forth so that you alternately block the image for 2 or 3 seconds each.

4. Does the image seem to jump as you change eyes?

5. If so, does it jump horizontally, vertically, or diagonally? The jump may not be very much.

Let me know what you find.

The jump may be more obvious when you are tired and it may help if you close your eyes for 15 to 30 seconds before doing the test and starting the test as soon as you open your eyes, so your eye positioning system does not have time to try to fuse the images.


Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 07:06


I have occasionally done multiple posts when the system is slow to respond and I am not sure I actually sent the post and click on the submit again.

I am pretty tied up today. Here is the first test.

1. Look at something across the room.

2. Hold your hand a few inches in front of your right eye so that you block the image.

3. Move your hand back and forth so that you alternately block the image for 2 or 3 seconds each.

4. Does the image seem to jump as you change eyes?

5. If so, does it jump horizontally, vertically, or diagonally? The jump may not be very much.

Let me know what you find.

The jump may be more obvious when you are tired and it may help if you close your eyes for 15 to 30 seconds before doing the test and starting the test as soon as you open your eyes, so your eye positioning system does not have time to try to fuse the images.


Cactus Jack 25 Jan 2016, 07:06


I have occasionally done multiple posts when the system is slow to respond and I am not sure I actually sent the post and click on the submit again.

I am pretty tied up today. Here is the first test.

1. Look at something across the room.

2. Hold your hand a few inches in front of your right eye so that you block the image.

3. Move your hand back and forth so that you alternately block the image for 2 or 3 seconds each.

4. Does the image seem to jump as you change eyes?

5. If so, does it jump horizontally, vertically, or diagonally? The jump may not be very much.

Let me know what you find.

The jump may be more obvious when you are tired and it may help if you close your eyes for 15 to 30 seconds before doing the test and starting the test as soon as you open your eyes, so your eye positioning system does not have time to try to fuse the images.


Rick 25 Jan 2016, 00:11

Sorry about that last post posting multiple times. I have no idea how it happened, and it was not my intention.

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 00:09

Cactus Jack

Thabk you for the offer. I would really appreciate it if you shared your home test.

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 00:09

Cactus Jack

Thabk you for the offer. I would really appreciate it if you shared your home test.

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 00:09

Cactus Jack

Thabk you for the offer. I would really appreciate it if you shared your home test.

Rick 25 Jan 2016, 00:09

Cactus Jack

Thabk you for the offer. I would really appreciate it if you shared your home test.

Cactus Jack 24 Jan 2016, 21:42


No, the prisms would NOT affect your actual eye alignment, just a glasses do not fix your refractive error. Prism in your glasses just correct the misalignment optically. When I wear my glasses, my eyes are still slightly crossed, but the glasses do the work of fusing the images for me without any effort on my part.

You seem to be very concerned about this. I doubt if you need much prism because if you did, you would have had an exam for it, long before now. I think I can suggest some simple tests you can do to estimate the amount prism you might need. It would be a starting to get an idea of what to expect. Let me know if you are interested and If you would prefer to discuss this privately.


Rick 24 Jan 2016, 21:01

Cactus Jack

Thank you, for your response. I think I was too vague in my question. I know glasses would not fix a misalignment, what I meant is putting them on. Would wearing prisms align my eyes while I wear them? Or would it somehow fix the double vision without fixing the alignment? To answer your questions we live in America, and none of my kids have glasses yet. Other than the eldest this will be all of their first eye doctors appointment. My wife and I used to take our oldest to get his eyes checked when she would get hers, but then we just stopped.

Cactus Jack 24 Jan 2016, 19:50


Misalignment is generally NOT fixed by prism, they only help you fuse the images optically, but there are exceptions. The double vision is caused either by the Central Axes of vision from both eyes NOT being parallel for distance (IOW, converge at infinity) or they mis-converge (over or under) for close vision. All prism can do is bend the light rays a bit to get the images close enough that your Eye Positioning System can take over and fuse the images.

The big problem with eye misalignment is that there can be several different causes. There are 6 muscles attached to each eye. The 3 muscle pairs are arranged to move the eyes left and right, up and down, and obliquely. They function in opposing pairs because muscles can't push, they can only pull. When you move your eyes, one muscle pulls while the other relaxes and lets it pull. Muscle Imbalance occurs when one muscle in the pair is stronger than the other. As I mentioned earlier, there can also be problems with the Cranial Nerves that control the eye muscles or problems in the Eye Position Control System in the Brain. Diagnosing and repair problems in the last two is close to impossible and VERY risky. That only leaves doing something with the muscles, even if the actual problem is elsewhere. There are only 3 things that can be done with the muscles.

1. Vision Therapy which is an attempt to strengthen weak muscles through exercises.

2. Another way is Botox injections or other drugs to weaken the strong muscle, temporarily.

3. Muscle surgery such as relocating the attach point of the muscle on the eyeball (Recession) or altering the length of the muscle (Resection). but that does not always work, in a small percentage of the cases

I was talked into Muscle Recession several years ago, but I was warned that it might not work. The attach point of the Inside Muscle (Medial Rectus Muscle) on each eye was moved back 5 mm. It eliminated the need for prism for 3 months and then the double vision returned. In the over all scheme of things, it probably reduced the amount of prism I need today, My ECPs are trying to talk me into another Muscle Surgery. After all, it is only "Minor" Surgery. Ha! My definition of Minor Surgery is Surgery on somebody else.

While prisms don't really fix anything, they may be a decent solution and if you need a change, it does not involve sharp objects around the eyes.

We need to find out what the ECP discovers during your exam. If he/she recommends something. We should talk before you commit to anything.

One of the problems with prism is that it is rapidly booming a lost art. Years ago, when prism was the only available solution to Strabismus, ECPs were very skilled and prescribing Prism, making the lenses and fitting them. Today with early detection of Strabismus and early surgical intervention, the need for significant Prism in glasses is pretty rare and more people than you realize have a small amount of prism in their glasses, to make their vision more comfortable.

To change the subject slightly:

May I ask where you live?

I also want to say that you are really doing your children a favor with eye exams for everyone. This is one of those instances where you are trying to help your 7 year old get through a potentially traumatic ordeal and at the same time doing good for your children in ways that build family relationships and ultimately teamwork. They are at the ages where vision problems tend to develop and there is a strong genetic factor in their heritage. Vision problems can significantly affect learning ability, because a very high percentage of knowledge comes from what you see and read. Do any of your children need Vision Correction at this time?

By the way, if you have anything you would prefer to discuss privately, you may contact me at


Rick 24 Jan 2016, 16:28

Cactus Jack

Thank you for your condolences regarding my wife. Also, thank for getting back to me and your explanation. So there is a misalignment of some sort in my eyes that causes the double vision? Would the prism fix the misalignment and double vision? Or would it just fix the double vision and my eye will be misaligned behind the glasses?

Cactus Jack 24 Jan 2016, 15:46


My heart goes out to you about the loss of your wife. It must be very hard on you and your children. The whole burden of raising your children is now on your shoulders. Hopefully, the older children can help with the younger ones.

You need to mention that you have mild double vision when you are tired, before the actual exam. It sounds like you may have a bit of what is called Fatigue Strabismus (eye misalignment). it is more common than most people think, but unless it is a real functional impediment, it may not be worth correcting.

There are 4 basic types Esophoria where the eyes try to turn inward, Exophoria where the eyes try to turn outward, Hyperphoria where one eye tries to turn upward, and Hypophoria where one eye tries to turn downward. Fatigue Esophoria is the most common, followed by Fatigue Exophoria. Vertical misalignment is less common. Part of the exam, I think i mentioned it in How to Study, is to determine misalignment and its direction.

You haven't mentioned your occupation so I will try not to get too technical. From an engineering point of view, the amazing eye positioning system is what is called an Open Loop Servo system. An Open Loop System DOES NOT KNOW where the eyes are actually pointing. It commands movement and responds to the RESULTS of that movement by comparing the relationship of the two images. A Closed Loop Servo system, like is used on Computer Controlled Machines KNOWS EXACTLY where the tool is, often to a tiny fraction of a mm or an inch and commands motion in tiny increments for accurate positioning from the known position.

The body is actually full of Open Loop systems that use visual results to correct errors. Feelings and balance inputs play a general role for movement of the Arms, Legs and Fingers, but precision movements use visual inputs for accuracy.

It requires a surprising amount of energy and effort to keep images fused if there are misalignment problems. I can keep the images fused without my glasses, but generally not for long and I can tell that my eye position muscles are getting tired.

For example, if there is a muscle imbalance that causes your eyes to want to turn inward, because your inside muscles are stronger than your outside muscles, your Eye Positioning System can send signals to the outside muscles on your eyes to oppose the deviation inward. However, like any muscles, after a while, they get tired and the stronger inside muscles start pulling the eyes inward and the result is double vision.

There are some double vision problems that can be solved by simply correcting a underlying Refractive Error. This is particularly true with Hyperopia. There is an interconnection in the brain between the Focus Control System and the Eye Position System. When you focus close, your eyes have to converge or turn inward to keep you from seeing double. The interconnection allows the Eye Positioning System to know that you are trying to focus close and it will automatically cause your eyes to converge so the the Open Loop part can get a head start on keeping the images fused.

People with uncorrected Hyperopia have to use their Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses to see distance clearly, even though they may not be aware that they are doing it. The act of correcting their vision for distance causes the convergence signal to be sent and their eyes try to converge or cross when they should not. If you correct the Hyperopia, the problem goes away.

Incidentally, the actual misalignment is very hard to see by looking at the eyes. A Prism Diopter is defined as that amount of prism that will deflect a ray of light 1 cm at a distance of 1 meter. As a trigonometric function, the Angular deflection is 0.57 degrees. If you translate that back to the Pupil of the eye it is about 0.15 mm per diopter. Even with the 13 Prism Diopters Base Out, few people notice that I am slightly cross eyed. However, some notice the extra thickness of the outer edges of my glasses.

Enough of that. If you had asked me the time, I would have told you how to build a watch.


Rick 24 Jan 2016, 14:28

Cactus Jack

Thank you, for sharing. So prism correct double vision? I ask this because I never really knew that it is a real problem. In the past like two years I have always felt like I see double when I am tierd. I have never given it much thought because I thought it just has to do with being tierd. Is it likely that I need glasses for this? The last time I had my eyes checked was with my late wife, and it was just before Kylee was born, and a bit after I started to notice the double vision. I did bot mention it because I did not think of it as anything. The result was I did not need glasses. What I am getting at is do you think this is something to mention to the doctor next week? If I do need glasses for this, how is it that the appointment I had about 2 years ago did not catch anything?

Cactus Jack 24 Jan 2016, 07:46


It is not too personal, but my visual history and my vision issues are a bit hard to explain without being very long winded and boring.

My prescription is pretty low, after Cataract Surgery and installation of IOLs with one exception. It is:

OD Sphere -0.50, Cylinder -0.75, Axis 95, Prism 13 Base Out

OS Sphere +0.75, Cylinder -1.00, Axis 80, Prism 13 Base Out

Add +3.00 Trifocal with 50% Intermediate (IOW +1.50)

The exception is the Prism correction for the Adult Strabismus I developed in my 40s. The prism really complicates things. When I am tired, my eyes try to turn inward and I see double. Sometimes at very awkward times.

As I have said many times, I am NOT and Eye Care Professional. My background is Electronic Engineering and Computers. I am 78 and have been dealing with vision issues since I was about 10 when I inadvertently discovered that I could see very well with one eye, but the other eye was blurry. However, I didn't get glasses until I was 14.

In the Vision area, I would be called an Amateur, in the original French sense as one who studies a subject out of love of that subject and in my case, intense curiosity.

My fundamental nature is a Problem Solver and I want to KNOW why something works or does not work. I have been that way as long as I can remember. I also love to teach with an emphasis on UNDERSTANDING how something works. Almost all of my teaching experience has been in the industrial world, rather than the academic world. Over the years I have gained the reputation of being a pretty good explainer. Which often causes me to be long winded in an attempt to foster understanding, rather than just rote learning. If you understand how something works, you can solve almost any problem that occurs. If you just memorize and are able regurgitate the "correct" answer, you can only deal with that problem and everything else is a mystery.


Rick 23 Jan 2016, 21:58

Cactus Jack,

Okay, thank you for the information! If you do not mind me asking what are your vision issues? What is your glasses prescription? It's just I have read your posts on helping others, and it hot me curious. You do not have to answer if it is too personal.

Cactus Jack 23 Jan 2016, 21:36


Not necessary. There is a hand held Auto-Refractor that can be used for objectively checking the vision of a small child, or even an adult. All that is necessary is to attract the child's attention and get them to look at the picture inside the device, sort of like the old Stereopticons, and press a trigger. The device is very fast and does both eyes at the same time. It may only give a close approximation of the child's prescription, but it is so quick and non-threatening that several readings are easy to get and they can be averaged for a more accurate approximation. It is not like trying to look in the child's eyes with an ophthalmoscope which shines a bright light into the eye. Usually the picture is of a colorful balloon or some animal that will tend to hold the child's attention.

I saw one of these devices several years ago in the office of a Pediatric Ophthalmologist. They specialize in eye misalignment in children (and adults). It was used on me almost before I realized what the doctor's assistant was doing. Unfortunately, I did not get a chance to examine the device.

It is the Examiner's problem to estimate the prescription of your 22 month old. When you get right down to it, the exact prescription is not really important. What you want to find out is if there is any significant refractive error that needs immediate attention or just something to be aware of and monitor periodically. I doubt there is any serious problem. Most very young children are Hyperopic (farsighted), but they have the built in ability to compensate for it, without much effort. If the 22 month old was having trouble compensating for Hyperopia, the typical clue is a wandering eye or one or both eyes trying to turn inward. The really important thing to look for in children is Amblyopia where, if there is enough difference between the images from each eye, the brain will ignore or try to ignore that image. That may not be obvious, but it needs to be caught and treated at the earliest possible age. If treatment is delayed too long, the brain will permanently ignore the images from that eye and there is no known way to restore vision in that eye, even if the cause is corrected.

I think you will find the methods used by the Examiner for young children, very interesting. We look forward to hearing the details.


Rick 23 Jan 2016, 20:46

Cactus Jack

I have been reading through some of the yout old posts on this sit, and you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about. I have a question, the doctor's office said that even Kylee should get her eyes checked. How does a doctor check a baby who foes not know her letters vision. Do I need to teach them to her and rescheduel?

Cactus Jack 23 Jan 2016, 19:40


At this point we don't know what your son's vision problem may be. Typically it is Myopia and the fact that his Mother had Myopia would point in that direction, but you can't be certain, without an exam.

Please let us know the results of the Eye Exams. Also, if he does need glasses, his response and hopefully acceptance of them. I am certain other parents in a similar situation would be interested in any problems and solutions.


Rick 23 Jan 2016, 17:25

Cactus Jack

I read you how to prepare for an eye exam posts. They were very helpful.


I just hope he will be happy with whatever the outcome is.

Rick 23 Jan 2016, 17:25

Cactus Jack

I read you how to prepare for an eye exam posts. They were very helpful.


I just hope he will be happy with whatever the outcome is.

Maurice  23 Jan 2016, 15:11

Rick, my guess is that all will be cool with your 7-year old if both you and he come home wearing glasses.

Rick 23 Jan 2016, 10:46

Cactus Jack

Thank you for your response and suggestion. I willdefinitely do what you suggested. As far as the rest of my kids. My oldest son is 12, then it is my my 7 year old (the one I was talking about), then it is my youngest son who is 5 years old, lastly it is my daughter who is 22 months.

Cactus Jack 23 Jan 2016, 10:07


Your son's reaction is pretty common. At 7, I suspect he is in what we would call, in the US, 2nd Grade. Very few 7 year olds wear glasses. He is probably concerned about being "different".

Almost every child thinks they have excellent vision because they have no way to compare the quality of what they "see" with really good vision. Also, he may think getting an eye exam is like going to a medical doctor where there is a risk of getting a shot, getting blood drawn, or experiencing other painful, traumatic procedures. Nothing could be farther from the truth about an eye exam. The only slightly uncomfortable part of a modern eye exam, is the puff of air used to measure internal eye pressure.

I think you have the right idea by scheduling exams for yourself and the other children. May I ask their ages?

You might just have a very casual private chat with your son, to find out his con concerns, but do not dismiss them. Tell him that you understand his concerns, but you think he is in for a very pleasant surprise, both about the exam and about wearing glasses, if he needs them.

If possible, you might get your exam first and ask if it it possible for your son can watch your exam if he promises to be very quiet and just pay attention to the exam. I suspect this will not be first time the examiner has dealt with an apprehensive child. Ideally, the examiner will take the time to explain the instruments.

I hope this helps. If you are interested, I will re-post the piece I wrote "How to Study for an Eye Exam". You might find something useful there.


Rick 23 Jan 2016, 00:00

I just got a letter saying he should get his eyes examined sent home. His teacher noticed him squinting a lot, so she sent home a leeter saying she is worried he may need glasses. When he found out he sounded devestated. He does not want to go to the eye doctor and insists he does not need glasses. He is 7 years old. His mother was nearsighted, and his aunt (her sister is too). I made him an appointment for next week on Friday. Is there anything I vould say or do to get him excited for this? Is ther anything we should say or do to prepare for the appointment? I got myself and the other kids appointments as well to not make hime feel alone.

Likelenses 21 Jan 2016, 02:08


That last post was from me.

l 21 Jan 2016, 02:04


This online company used to make special order thick flat front glasses.

Likelenses 21 Jan 2016, 01:59


You already have a pretty strong prescription,but it sounds as though you need more.Additionally it sounds as though you also now need bifocals.

As far as the flat front lenses,they are called plano base curve,and you could get them in your prescription,but it would cost extra. I am not sure if Zenni would make them up for you,but you could email them about it.

They are my favorites also.

Anna 19 Jan 2016, 14:17

I am 23 years old, I come from Asia. My parents were very poor so they could not afford to buy me glasses so I used to borrow my friends old glasses they helped a little About 6 months ago I meet a very nice boy who paid for me to get an eye test and bought me my own glasses R -5.75 L-4.00 I’m not sure if there were any other number .I now notice thing in the distance are not as sharp as when I first got my own glasses and when I read my cell phone I get double vision. Is this normal to need a new test so soon and would reading glasses help you think.

A co-worker of mine has glasses that look as if the front of the lens are very flat I like this look could I get that type of lens I don’t know what they are called. Also I have read here that lots of people order from zenni on line could I get this type of lens from them

Likelenses 16 Jan 2016, 22:07

new myope

You may enjoy reading my post to the New Glasses thread on 27 Dec, 2015 21:36

This lady's condition is similar to yours.Even with glasses on she reads very close,about 8 inches from her eyes.

Your comment about fluctuating astigmatism could be caused by slightly unbalanced muscles that control the focus of your internal lenses.I at one time knew a girl that had that condition,and her optometrist gave her a slightly stronger sphere and that solved the problem,and after a year the astigmatism disappeared,but the sphere increased another -1.00

new myope 16 Jan 2016, 11:29

Sorry, should have said the amount of cylinder required in the bad eye has steadily increased.

new myope 16 Jan 2016, 11:26

Thanks, Cactus Jack.

I'd assumed that my mld myopia was caused by the computer – I've reached a stage where my eyes focus uncorrected naturally at the distance of the screen. This has been progressive over a period of about six years but the Rx now seems pretty stable. It may be 'false' myopia but it certainly wouldn't be a good idea for me to drive at night without glasses – can't read even quite big road signs in bad light.

I'd be curious to see what the dilation showed, but I'm in the UK where it's not a routine part of exe exams and my eye doctor doesn't think it's necessary. She is excellent, by the way – happy to let me play with different angles until I get exactly the right result. She says there's no indication of cataract or problem with the retina – 'very healthy', she says.

The axis of my astigmatism in my 'bad' eye genuinely changes a bit from day to day – my eye doctor measured it a few days apart and said it had shifted a bit. It's always been like that. But the amount of sphere required in that eye has steadily increased.

I'm just hoping that I won't lost the spherical minus correction as I get older. Do you think that's likely, Jack? I certainly can't imagine any more away from the screen...

Cactus Jack 15 Jan 2016, 18:45

new myope,

I suspect that you have developed some Pseudo or False Myopia. False Myopia is a phenomenon that develops in your Auto-Focus mechanism in your eyes. It is actually the same thing as Latent Hyperopia but just on the other side of 0.00. It affects only your Sphere Correction. It is caused in older people by the Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses having difficulty fully relaxing after a lot of close focusing. Myopia of any type will help you focus close at the expense of your distance vision.

Myopia and something called 2nd sight can also be caused by some types of Cataracts, which also affects the Crystalline Lenses.

Astigmatism is usually caused by uneven curvature of the front surface of the Cornea. The Cornea has a lot of PLUS power and the uneven curvature causes it to have more PLUS power in one Axis and less PLUS in the Axis that is 90 degrees from the first Axis. The ideal Corneal shape is a section of a perfect Sphere, but stresses can cause it to assume the shape of a section from the side of an American Football.

Actual Astigmatism usually changes very slowly, but that part of the Eye Exam where Astigmatism is the MOST subjective part of the exam and it can change a lot because of the lack of skill on the patients part. What makes it hard is that when the Examiner is trying to determine the Axis of the Astigmatism, you will be asked to judge relative blurriness of two images as the Examiner Brackets the selected Asix. It is very hard to do. Judging relative shapes is much easier. I have published my technique for working with the Examiner to "fine tune" the Cylinder and Axis numbers.

Another thing that can affect your vision is poor Blood Glucose control (diabetes) because it can change the Index of Refraction of the Aqueous and Vitreous Humors in the eye. We don't think of them much, but they are part of the eye's lens system.

If you have not had one, you might want to consider a dilated eye exam. The dilating agent will do two things. Open up you Pupils which will allow a good examination of the condition of your Retina and temporarily paralyze your Ciliary (Focusing) Muscles. Modern Dilating agents are not aggressive or long lasting enough to fully relax your Ciliary Muscles, but it might give you a clue to the source of your myopia. I seriously doubt you have developed any significant Axial or True Myopia at your age.


new myope 15 Jan 2016, 17:51

I'm a newish myope and I'm middle-aged. One for Cactus Jack maybe.

In my 20s I had -0.75 astigmatism in one eye, maybe a tiny bit in the other eye but glasses didn't make any difference because my good eye was excellent.

Wasn't until my 40s, when I already needed reading glasses for close up, that O started work in an office where I was on screen all day long and I noticed that the distance could be a tiny bit blurry. I got glasses that were -.025 and -1 both cyl with no spherical but then the astigmatism crept up and and they added -.25 spherical.

So now at 53 I'm -0.5/-0.5 in my 'good eye' and -0.25/-1.75 in my bad one. And its been stable for a year or two though there's a bit of variation – sometimes my distance vision is a bit better or a bit worse.

I like the nearsightedness! I hope it will stay... and at the same time my need for reading glasses is less than people the same age as me. I have +1 readers for small print or late at night but often don't take them out of the house with me because I'm wearing distance specs that I have to take off to read anything at all.

Any thoughts? The eye doctor said I wasn't unique. I'm happy because I assumed by now I'd be completely dependent on +2 readers.

Weirdeyes 15 Jan 2016, 17:21


Some eye doctors just suck. When I was nine I went to get my eyes tested for the first time. I never remember seeing him use an autorefractor(the machine that guesses your prescription.) Since I didn't know what I was supposed to do I "tried my best" during the test and I ended up not needing glasses. Even though I noticed slightly blurry vision. When I was eleven I ended up getting my eyes tested again. It turned out I was farsighted and I had a huge difference between my eyes and needed glasses right away. I don't think my eyes changed that much over two years. Even if they did change it means that I was moderately farsighted.

Erica 15 Jan 2016, 15:20

Sorry Soundmanpt. I got glasses when i was 19 and yes my prescription changes every year. People always ask to try my glasses on when i get new ones. My friends that wear glasses just laugh but when people try them and don't need glasses they always make a comment how can you see in these. People with good vision don't understand what it's like to need glasses all the time. I can't believe people don't need glasses, if you go to the opticians for a test I'm sure they would tell you need glasses.

Erica 15 Jan 2016, 15:19

Sorry Soundmanpt. I got glasses when i was 19 and yes my prescription changes every year. People always ask to try my glasses on when i get new ones. My friends that wear glasses just laugh but when people try them and don't need glasses they always make a comment how can you see in these. People with good vision don't understand what it's like to need glasses all the time. I can't believe people don't need glasses, if you go to the opticians for a test I'm sure they would tell you need glasses.

Soundmanpt or Soundproof 09 Jan 2016, 13:45


I guess your being funny by now calling me "Soundproof"? I thought that "Soundmanpt" was already pretty funny? So have you managed to visit any of our others friends houses that wear glasses so you can maybe find and try on their glasses? Do you let your friends try on your glasses? I'm sure the ones that don't wear glasses or have weak prescriptions must complain about how strong your glasses are? Does that ever bother you? At what age did you get your first glasses and do you remember how you felt about getting glasses? Are you still getting small increases every year or has your vision become stable?

Ellen 03 Jan 2016, 15:37

Too right I can do whatever I want Guest1.

I intend 2016 to be a very good year!

Guest1 03 Jan 2016, 11:39

Hi Ellen,

You can do whatever you want !


By the way, my old g/f who was -19 and astig with biconcaves, tried special contacts too after she got her masters - when she traveled as an international guide and then again for a short while after she divorced her first husband. She then went back to glasses. Very comfortably too. As she got older, had some retina/macula issues and didn't want to bother her stretched eyes with contacts.

Sooooo, its your choice.

Happy New Year

Erica 03 Jan 2016, 10:41

Soundpoint, I was at my friends house yesterday and i seen she had -6.00 contacts on the side. there was a pair of glasses on the side and i tried them on I couldn't see in them i could the lenses were different. I though hoe can she see in these but they were her mums glasses. talking to her mum and she had -6.00 -2.00. It must be strange if you can see in one eye still? Think is better to have same prescription in each eye even if I can't see at all?

Likelenses 03 Jan 2016, 04:23


Ha,I got a kick out of your comments regarding " coming out",and mortal sins here.Your humor is charming!

Anyhow it is nice that you now have options other than your spex,for social occasions,and such.

Happy New Year.

Ellen 03 Jan 2016, 02:29

I should have known not to "come out" as a contact wearer. It's a mortal sin on here, second only to admitting to laser surgery. Have no fear however, I shall still be wearing my glasses a lot of the time. I never had any intention of becoming an American-style 24/7 contact lens wearer. I'm used to glasses, I quite like wearing them in most instances and even see them as part of my identity in a strange way. Glasses are still the first thing I grab in the morning before venturing out of bed and more often than not they stay on my face all day. As I said, I need reading glasses with the contacts and so for the most part I will be using my glasses for work. Contacts are great for physical activity and for some social engagements though.

Likelenses 03 Jan 2016, 00:40


I am glad that the contacts are working well for you,but does this mean that the world is losing a great GWG?

Oscar 02 Jan 2016, 11:33

Good luck with the contacts, Ellen. It very good to hear that they're going well so far.

I was actually watching Come Dine With Me when I saw your post - Shoba seems a very clever and attractive woman and her strong glasses are a definite enhancement! So it's back to the final episode to watch some more of her :)

Ellen 02 Jan 2016, 10:38

Well for anyone interested I did get contact lenses. I had to get custom made soft lenses which allow the base curve, diameter and cyl and to be finely tuned. They're about £100 per lens but I'm very happy with them, they're comfortable and give me very good vision. There are a few side effects I wasn't expecting. First I seem to need reading glasses when I'm wearing them. I think decades behind thick myopic lenses have made my ciliary muscles lazy and I have essentially been staring at infinity for years and using minute adjustments of my glasses for near and far vision. Secondly, everything looks huge. I found it very hard to adjust at first and kept missing things like door handles as I thought the door was closer than it actually was. Thirdly I spend all day pushing phantom glasses up my nose. I must have been doing this hundreds of times a day and it's hard wired into my brain.

I went to a party in contacts over the Christmas period and got quite a few (mostly positive) reactions, ranging from "hi Ellen I didn't recognise you at first but I'd know that cleavage anywhere", through "I assume you got contacts or LASIK or you would be covered in bruises from bumping into things" to "you look lovely" so I'm happy I finally decided to try them again.

Oh and as I type this, for those of you in the UK, if you tune into "Come Dine With Me" on E4 there's an Indian lady contestant with very strong glasses, probably at least as strong as mine.

Guido 31 Dec 2015, 17:09

Thanks for the input.

specs4ever 31 Dec 2015, 09:16

Guido, I think you are right on with your idea for your right eye. For your left eye I would suggest lowering the distance prescription by about a diopter. Keep the astigmatism the same.

I am sure some of the others will give you some input as well, but that is just my suggestion. Trifocals would take 50% of the reading vision for the mid point, but in your case the eye doctor would likely increase your add to +2.50 and then your mid point would become +1.25. However I don't think you want to rush into any stronger reading add than you really need.

Guido 31 Dec 2015, 08:44

Probably a Cactus Jack question. Current Prescription, OD -4.75,-0.75 31, Add 2.25; OS -4.75, -1.00, 48, Add 2.25. PD 66, Date of script 22Oct2015. I work for a CPA during the tax season commencing Jan. 15. I went to the optometric office that did my refraction to see if the optician could do what I wanted. He said not without seeing the Dr. Time prohibits. What I would like to do is to have a mono-vision pair of glasses to be able to read source documents close up, and then enter said info into a computer program. As my right eye is dominant, I would guess that something close to a single vision reading script would be appropriate to my right eye i.e. -2.50, -0.75, 31. What would seem to be an appropriate script for my left eye at arms length? Is an adjustment of the PD indicated? I had a pair of specs that I used like this in the past, but the script became so outdated that they have become pretty unusable. If someone knowledgeable about such things could give me some guidance, I could do one of the mail order glasses places on the cheap. I understand the inherent risk, and am willing to absorb. has some pretty cheap frame choices. If further information is required, please ask, as I pretty much check the board regularly

Steven 31 Dec 2015, 04:33

Yes I am liking the clarity I can see now with them, and yes lights are much clearer with them in especially at night but also during the day.

I am off to watch football again this Saturday with friends and am driving as it's an away game. This will mean I will need my glasses especially when it gets dark, as my vision is so much clearer. I guess the best way is to turn up with them in when I pick them up, then I can also wear them gwen watching football if I need to.

Dave 30 Dec 2015, 10:30

Hi Steven -- Well, it looks like you appreciate the extra clarity of your new low minus glasses. I have a nearly identical prescription and am not a full time wearer. That said, I do enjoy them for nighttime driving and sometimes for television viewing when I am sitting quite a distance from the screen. I also like to be able to read the pedestrian countdown lights sooner when I'm driving at night. I see a lot of young people wearing glasses with very low minus prescriptions and sometimes attribute it to their desire to be fashionable. Wear your glasses whenever you want to. It's up to you -- at least at this point, although I doubt you will ever have any significant increases. Let us know how you are getting on and Happy New Year!

Crystal Veil 30 Dec 2015, 07:38


it can be worse. My prescription is L +2.75 / R: 0; c-1.50. This difference is when opticians start advising contact lenses but I always kept at wearing glasses.

EyeTri 30 Dec 2015, 07:10


My youngest sister has glasses that are about -1.0 for her right eye and about +1.50 for the left. She told me that when she orders glasses via the internet they always call her to make sure that she didin't make a mistake filling in the order.

Melyssa 30 Dec 2015, 05:52


My prescription is exactly twice the strength of yours, at -9.00 in both eyes, but I have that major mess of astigmatism (+3.00). Before my vision stabilized at age 36, I always had a difference in diopters between my beautiful baby browns of up to 1.00. My very first RX at age 8 was -1.75/-1.50. My mother had a big difference in her RX.

Soundmanpt 29 Dec 2015, 17:35


So you kind of messed up my name a bit? Soundproof? Really? Anyway at -4.50 in the optical world your considered to be "moderately myopic" I would think you should come across others with a similar prescription as you. In fact your friend that let you try her glasses on isn't all that much different. At least one eye anyway. If you would have held your hand over the lens in her glasses that has the -2.50 lens and looked only through her -4.00 lens you should have been able to see nearly perfect with her glasses. Just a tiny bit weaker than your own glasses. So since you didn't know that it is not only possible but really very common to have different prescriptions for each eye I assume that you have somehow always had the same prescription for both of your eyes whenever you needed new glasses? Actually that is kind of rare. Usually you might have the same prescription for both eyes for a while but then need a slightly stronger lens for one eye or the other from then on. So if you were trying her glasses on I assume she was trying your glasses on as well? Now in her case i'm sure she found that her -2.50 eye couldn't focus very well with your glasses but in her case if she were to hold her hand over her -2.50 eye and only use her -4.00 eye looking through your -4.50 lens she would have really liked that because she would have been seeing even better than she can with her own glasses. she has what is called "unbalanced" eyes meaning that the difference between her eyes is -1.50. With her glasses she is able to see perfectly well just like you with your glasses on. But when she takes her glasses off the blur is much more noticeable to her in her -4.00 than her -2.50 eye. The longer she has her glasses off the more her brain will start to ignore her -4.00 eye if she is looking at something a short distance away. Of course when you take your glasses off the blur is very equal for you. Your not able to see much but what your able to see you see the same way. If you happen across someone that has just a little stronger glasses than yours and you try them on I bet you will really enjoy that. The eyes naturally like some over correction so if you were to try on glasses that were -5.25 in both eyes everything would look very intense and super clear and sharp. Yes your right anytime you try on someone's glasses that have astigmatism correction your not going to like them very much because like you say they only mess things up if you don't have astigmatisms.

Erica 29 Dec 2015, 15:15

Soundproof, Im shortsighted -4.50 in both eyes and have to wear my glasses all the time. I thought I would be able to see with her glasses but didn't know you can have one eye different prescription. Is it better to have the same prescription eyes or dosnt it matter so what you need glasses anyway? Yes it is intresting when you try other people's glasses on I know my eyes are bad but some are a real mess when they also have astigmatism, am I lucky just to be shortsighted -4.50?

Cactus Jack 29 Dec 2015, 09:11


I still think you need to just get the commentary over with. One of the best ways to deal with that is to poke fun at yourself if you can. Being able to publicly laugh at yourself can effectively take all the fun out of making you the butt of a joke. A little joke on yourself is also a good ice breaker for public speaking.

A pitch is pretty big and I doubt you can recognize a specific player on your team if they are more than 10 to 15 meters away. Of course you can probably identify them as a member of your team by the color of their shirt.

I don't know if this would work, but you might try showing up wearing your glasses and going up to the person most likely to make some snide comment and say something like "So that is what you guys really look like. Without these, I probably could not have recognized you across the street."

Actually, you probably should NOT wear regular glasses. playing football (soccer) because of the risk of damage or getting them knocked off and broken. You have managed to play without vision correction and you should be able to continue. If you find you need to see better, Contacts are a possibility and Sports glasses are also a possibility. I would have to believe that there are other football players who need vision correction, you need to ask around.

Another thought to consider. You don't wear vision correction for the benefit or with the approval of others (except for driving). You wear vision correction for YOUR benefit. You don't need anyone's permission to see well and wearing glasses or not wearing glasses is your choice. Glasses are just tools to help you see better. You can drive a nail with your hand, but it is a lot more comfortable and less body to use a hammer.

I wish you the best. Please let us know how you are doing.


Steven 29 Dec 2015, 05:15

I think it was because I had no choice really with my family, and as they all have glasses it wasn't so bad. Most of my friends don't need glasses so sure they will joke about them more, and I can still get by without them!

I play football so do need to see distances of the pitch so should be okay, I guess if I'm struggling contacts would be the option for just playing sport!

Cactus Jack 28 Dec 2015, 18:11


With your prescription, your vision starts to get fuzzy beyond 1 meter. Do you think that would be a factor in your preferred sport?

I don't think I have asked if you have any Astigmatism as evidenced by Cylinder and Axis in your prescription. Astigmatism can mess up your vision at all distances and make even mild myopia, worse.


Cactus Jack 28 Dec 2015, 17:56


I am disappointed. You are over the biggest hump with your relatives. I would almost be willing to bet that your friends know you need glasses and will be relieved to know that you finally got them. Try wearing your glasses at lunch with a friend, preferably one who wears glasses, an observe his/her reaction. I'll bet they will think it is no big deal. You are still Steven, who just happens to wear glasses now, thank goodness, it is about time.

I am always amazed that New Glasses wearers think that no one noticed their vision problems. You telegraph the symptoms constantly when you strain to read scoreboards, menu boards, and White boards. If any of your friends have vision correction, they will spot the symptoms in a flash..

Wearing vision correction for sports depends on the game. Some people wear contact lenses or sports glasses or just go without.

If you are a Lineman playing American football, you could probably would not need glasses to see that hulk opposing you. If you are a Quarterback or Receiver, you need to be able to see your target and the ball from some distance away.

If you play Basketball. you need to be able to see the basket from a long way away.

If you play Soccer, it helps to see the ball from a distance, but if you are the Goalie the ball is coming at you. I have a young friend who was born without lenses in his eyes and is severely cross eyed. His corrected vision is 20/60 and 20/100. He wears very high PLUS glasses and cannot fuse the two images even with prism correction in his sports glasses. He uses the left eye to see to the right and the right eye to see to the left. He can see the ball coming at him and he WILL NOT let it get into the net, period. His attitude makes up for his poor vision. He also has a teammate who is cross eyed, but has 20/20 vision. He is a deadly shot and he can put the ball exactly where he wants it. The opposing teams hate to play them because they cannot read what they are going to do by watching their eyes.

Some people wear contact lenses for sports or just go without

What sports do you like to play?


Steven 28 Dec 2015, 15:04

I have been wearing my glasses still, but did chicken out of wearing them in front of my friends. I went to watch a football match and could see it ok without, but did have trouble seeing the scoreboard on the other side of the ground. I didn't have my glasses with me as was still bit nervous to wear them with my friends and the jokes that I'm sure would be made!

I am finding that my eyes are now feeling less strained after wearing them and not as tired at night, I assume this is my eyes being more relaxed with wearing them?

I was also wondering what sort of prescription people would start to need glasses or lenses playing sport?

Soundmanpt 28 Dec 2015, 10:27


Based on your comments it seems like you must have the exact same prescription in both eyes? Like you notice for your friends glasses many people need a different prescription for each eye to correct their vision. Now it is also possible that when you need new glasses that you may need a different prescription for each of your eyes as well. I looked back trying to find where you posted your own prescription but wasn't able to find it. I was curious how close your friend's -2.50 / -4.00 is to your prescription? If your glasses are weaker than -2.50 than her -4.00 lenses was probably much too strong for you. But if closer to her -4.00 lens then her -2.50 lens was too weak for you. But it is always interesting trying on someone elses glasses and comparing them to your own. Your right that someone that only has a prescription for one eye and the other eye is still perfect can either wear glasses with correction only being in the one eye and the other a plano lens. Of course only needing correction in one eye would save on the price of contacts since only one would be needed.

Erica 27 Dec 2015, 14:42

I'm shortsighted in both eyes so is blurry when not wearing glasses. I know some one that's shortsighted but has different power lenses she said her good eye she can make things outs when closes her bad eye but when both eyes open can't see. She was with -2.50 -4.00 i tried her glasses on it felt strange. I seen people wearing glasses to corect just one eye but is better to wear 1 contact lens is this common?

Cactus Jack 27 Dec 2015, 08:34


Typically the Subjective part of the exam starts with the Right Eye shutter open and the Left Eye shutter closed.

Step 1 is typically determining the cylinder and axis of any Astigmatism correction you need. This is actually the hardest part of the exam because you will be asked to judge relative blurriness of two images rather than the sharpness of an image.

You will be shown a line of text and a supplemental lens will be rotated into place. This lens is a cylinder lens that is mounted on a 45 degree pivot and can be flopped back an forth to bracket a trial axis or orientation of the long axis of the cylinder lens. The thing that is confusing about this test is that the straight lines (strokes) of the letters will alternate in clarity as the lens is flipped back and forth depending on their direction. I suggest concentrating on an “O” if possible. Depending on your answers, the examiner will adjust the axis knob unit the image you see is equally blurry with the supplemental lens 45 degrees each side of the selected axis.

At this point the Examiner will probably swing the supplemental lens out of the way and may change the cylinder power while asking you which lens in clearer.

You may be uncomfortable, for your first exam, asking the Examiner to let you fine tune the axis, but I have found that most will appreciate your wanting to actively participate. The way that works is that he will place your hand on the Axis control knob and you move it back and forth a few degrees of the sharpest image, this time.

The next step is determining the Sphere correction. This is an easy part of the exam because all you have to do is pick the sharpest image, but there is a tricky part. Your auto-focus mechanism will try to help, if it gets a chance. The Examiner has a couple of ways to minimize the action of your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses.

The Examiner can in effect sneak up on your Sphere prescription or he can use drops to Dilate your eyes. Lets talk about sneaking up on your prescription first. There are actually 4 lenses in your eye’s lens system. All of them are PLUS lenses and the total power is about +56 diopters. The only variable focus lens is the crystalline lens whose PLUS power is controlled by your ciliary muscles. For distance, your Crystalline lens is fully relaxed and has somewhere around +15 diopters. When you focus to read, your Ciliary Muscles squeeze the Crystalline lens to increase its PLUS power by the amount necessary to focus which depends on the distance to the object.

This will take a little thought to get your mind around, but if you are nearsighted, your lens system has too much PLUS for the distance from the lens system to your retina and you need MINUS lenses to neutralize some of that excess PLUS power. You ONLY have the ability to increase the PLUS power of your lens system. You have NO ability to reduce the PLUS power of your Crystalline lenses more that fully relaxed.

To try to keep your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses from getting in the act, the examiner will start with NOT ENOUGH MINUS or TOO MUCH PLUS (same thing) and gradually increase the MINUS one or two steps at a time, while reducing the size of the line you are asked to read. He will not tell you what power lens or what line you are looking at. Eventually, he will reach the 20/20 line and a lens power that lets you read it with no mistakes.

He will then follow the same procedure with your Left Eye.

When he has completed both eyes, he will open the shutters and you may see two images. This part of the test is to check your muscle balance using some prisms. He will probably ask you to tell him when the two images are aligned horizontally and then vertically. While the images are separated, you have an important check to make. Compare the sharpness of the two images. If they are not equally sharp, be sure and tell the Examiner which image is clearer. If there is a difference, he will likely reduce the sharpness of the clearest image until they match. The important thing at this point is that they match. That lack of sharpness will be corrected in the next phase with both eyes working together.

Next he will fuse the images so both eyes are working together and repeat the Sphere procedure by gradually increasing the MINUS or decreasing the PLUS until you see the smallest line of letters very clearly.

That pretty much completes the exam except for checking your near vision with a small chart about 14 to 16 inches from you.

Cactus Jack 27 Dec 2015, 08:30


An eye exam is not like an exam that you might take in school and there is really no way to study for it. However, you can prepare for it and learn about your role in the exam. The best eye exams are a team effort between you and the Examiner. Part of the preparation is to learn what to expect, particularly if this is your first eye exam.

One important thing you need to keep in mind is that the Examiner has no way to experience what you are seeing. He/she has to depend on your answers to questions.

There are two parts to an eye exam. The first part is the Objective part. This part consists of:

1. Taking a Visual History where you describe your vision and the kinds of problems you are having.

2. Checking the internal pressure in your eyes for symptoms of Glaucoma. This is one of the very few parts of an eye exam that is even mildly uncomfortable and the discomfort only lasts for a few seconds. There are two basic ways to do the pressure test.

A. Using a special instrument to lightly touch your Cornea. Not to worry here. Before doing this type of test a drop of mild anesthetic will make sure you don’t even feel it.

B. There is a new type instrument that uses a puff of air directed against your cornea. No anesthetic is required, but the puff will startle you. The puff of air is harmless and there are huge benefits of detecting Glaucoma early before it can do damage.

3. Obtaining a preliminary estimate of your refractive error using an Auto-Refractor, or manually by using a small hand held instrument called an Ophthalmoscope or Retinoscope.

The Auto-Refractor is a relatively new instrument that was developed in conjunction with NASA to check Astronauts vision in space. You look into the machine with each eye individually at a scene or a pattern and the machine will adjust its internal lenses to focus the image you see on your retina. The Auto-Refractor only takes a few seconds for each eye and it then prints out your estimated prescription.

Some Examiners prefer to use manual methods that have been used for many years. Using an Ophthalmoscope or Retinoscope and a Trial Lens set or a Phoropter (a fancy machine with a built in lens set), the Examiner will look into your eyes and select the lenses that allow him to see your retina, most clearly.

The object of this part of the exam is to get a starting place for the Subjective part of the exam where you have to describe what you see.

To be continued

antonio 27 Dec 2015, 04:16


it depends on the difference between your both eyes

and how much it is, normally it is worth,

although the difference is very small,

what´s it in your case ?

best regards,


Erica 27 Dec 2015, 04:02

I know what's it like being shortsighted I have a prescription. Is it worse to have different prescription each eye?

Cactus Jack 27 Dec 2015, 00:06


Congratulations, you are over the toughest hurdle. Now all you have to do is let your brain get used to working with high quality images while you enjoy seeing well. I think you will discover that being able to see clearly without effort is worth it.

Welcome to the world of good vision. Let us know if we can answer any more questions.


Steven 26 Dec 2015, 11:03

Yes cactus jack that makes sense.

I ended up wearing my glasses more than I had planned to over Christmas with the family. I hadn't told them about them so wasn't planning on wearing them, as I was still getting used to them myself. My parents have a fairly small television which I had never had any issues with before, but I noticed this time I was struggling a bit to see words on on on credits and things. I think my mum noticed this so I had to say I had recently got glasses so I ended up putting them on and wearing most of the day. My brothers and sisters obviously made some jokes, but not too many as I was the last person in the family to need glasses. I guess now having my fily know and seen me in them I should be more confident in wearing them.

cactus Jack 24 Dec 2015, 17:40


Yes. Check item 2 or my post on 22 Dec. Vision occurs in the brain and it is used to correcting the blurry images from your eyes, without glasses. With your glasses the correction process was not necessary and your brain stopped doing it for the time you were wearing your glasses. When you took off your glasses, you got a glimpse of what your brain has been working with. It did not take long for the old "image processing program" in your brain to go back to work correcting your vision.

Remember though, your brain can only correct things that it knows. It cannot correct new images with unfamiliar content. Your glasses can correct everything with no additional effort on your part.


Steven 24 Dec 2015, 10:55

Hi I got my glasses yesterday and wore them today as I was going on a long drive. They defiantly made things clearer and my eyes felt more relaxed and less strained with them on. I did notice that when I took them off things appeared more blurry than before without them, but this cleared up after a few minutes. Is this normal?

Cactus Jack 22 Dec 2015, 10:36


It is common to be apprehensive about wearing glasses in public or among family and friends. I suggested wearing them full time for 2 weeks, before deciding when to wear them for 3 reasons.

1. The best way to get over the apprehension is to "bite the bullet" and wear them. There will be maybe two days when you will have some comments, but it is really no different that getting a hair cut or a new hair style. You just have to discover that wearing glasses makes no real difference. Often, people who know you are relieved that you finally got glasses. Other people really do notice that you are having difficulty seeing even mildly distant things such as Menu Boards, Faces, or small signs, clearly.

2. Vision actually occurs in the brain, your eyes are merely biological cameras. Your brain is used to correcting the blurred images (if it knows what something is supposed to look like). Wearing glasses will relieve your brain of that extra work, but it will take a few days for your brain to become accustomed to working with high quality images. Many people believe that wearing glasses has made their vision worse, but that is not actually true. What has happened is that your brain has reprogrammed itself and is no longer trying to correct the blurry images of objects beyond about 1.5 meters or about 5 feet.

3. Because having low myopia is like having built in reading glasses, it is very tempting to not wear your glasses for close work, but that is a two edged sword.

It is likely that at 30, two things are occurring. Presbyopia is creeping up on you and by not wearing glasses, your Ciliary Muscles (focusing muscles) are getting out of condition and becoming weaker. Wearing your glasses for closer work may initially seem uncomfortable until your Ciliary Muscles get stronger, but not wearing your glasses may effectively speed the need for needing focusing help for closer work.

In the final analysis it is up to you when you wear your glasses. The only exception is those situations where you need really good distance vision, such as driving.

I hope this has been more helpful than confusing.


antonio 20 Dec 2015, 08:19

Hi Steven,

If they are only for far, that means you haven't any astigmatism, good idea to take them off for long computer work and extensive book reading, if you feel comfortable doing that without

Best regards , antonio

Steven 20 Dec 2015, 00:08

Hi thanks for the replies. I am a bit apprehensive about going out in public wearing glasses, I did go on Saturday and found a pair I think I suited so just have to wait for these to be ready.

When you say wear them fulltime to get used to them, does this mean also while on the computer at work? Will this not affect my sight more as I was told they were for distance?

Cactus Jack 18 Dec 2015, 21:30

Astigmaphile and Steven,

Yes, I thought I typed Macrae's Story. In fact, I am pretty sure I typed Macrae's Story. I am not immune to typos that have one or two wrong letters or maybe two letters in a word reversed in order, but not that much. The only culprit I can thing of is an errant spell checker.

Thanks for allowing me to clarify the name of the story.


astigmaphile 18 Dec 2015, 19:29

Cactus Jack,

Did you mean Macrae's story, or am I mistaken?

cactus Jack 18 Dec 2015, 18:59


Maybe I can help with the meaning of your prescription and that will help you decide if you want to get glasses or when to wear them. This may get a little technical so bear with me.

Glasses or Contacts correct for refractive errors. The glasses prescription is the opposite of the refractive error. In your case, the prescription of -0.75 in one eye and -1.00 in the other means that your refractive error is +0.75 in one eye and +1.00 in the other. If you wear glasses or contacts your refractive error is 0.00.

In some respects being a little Myopic or short sighted it is like having built in weak reading glasses.

The formulas for optics were codified a bit over 300 years ago by Sir Isaac Newton. In practical terms, without correction everything you see with the -0.75 eye that is beyond 1.3 meters or about 52 inches is increasingly blurry. Everything you see with the -1.00 eye starts getting fuzzy beyond 1 meter or 39.37 inches.

I think you would benefit from wearing glasses, particularly at night, but as has been said by others, the choice is pretty much yours.

Have you decided to order glasses?

If you have or have not, we can help you order inexpensive, high quality glasses online.

If you decide to get glasses, I would suggest that you plan on wearing them full time for 10 days to 2 weeks and then decide when to wear them. You will be apprehensive about wearing them for about 2 or 3 days until everyone gets used to your wearing glasses and that will be the end of that.

If you want to read a very funny series of posts about the experiences of one of our members, please check out

Fantasy and True Stories

Marcie's Story

Please feel free to ask if you have any questions. Welcome to the club!


Soundmanpt 18 Dec 2015, 15:55


With your optometrist telling you that "you should wear them for driving especially at night" she is saying that you likely can't pass the vision test for driving now without glasses. Even though your driver's license won't show a restriction the fact that you have been told to wear your glasses or driving still means that you need to be wearing them day and night for driving. If you were to get involved in any kind of accident where an injury may occure and they found out that you prescribed glasses and weren't wearing after being told that you needed to wear them it could be a very serious problem for you. I think once you get your glasses you should notice that your eyesight is better with with your glasses anyway. I'm not sure if where you live if you have to renew your driver's license every few years or not, but if you do I your most likely not going to be able to pass the vision test and then it will be on your license at that time.

Dave 18 Dec 2015, 13:17

Hi Steven:

You have a very mild prescription and probably could pass a California vision test required for a driver's license. That said, you will notice a bit of extra clarity during the day and more at night when your myopia becomes a bit more acute. I'd use them for driving at night or whenever you feel a need. There are no rules. Your work has probably created this minor myopia. You might want to take regular eye breaks from your computer and look into the distance which may prevent your eyesight from worsening. Let us know your response to your new glasses.

Steven 18 Dec 2015, 12:01

I had my eye exam this lunchtime, and I was told I would benefit from a pair of glasses. The optician gave me a prescription on -0.75 and -1.00. She said that should wear them when driving especially at night.

Should I be wearing when driving in day time, and also when else should I wear them?

Steven 15 Dec 2015, 08:24

Hi Cactus Jack,

Thanks for your comments. I have booked in for an eyetest for this Friday lunchtime. I thought it would be best to get my vision checked and see what correction I may need.

Melyssa 15 Dec 2015, 05:44

Getting back to the "Blue Light Special" with Christmas lights, I noticed something interesting over the weekend. When blue lights are the only color, such as on an entire house or an evergreen tree, they are a lighter shade and easy to see. But the regular blue lights that are mixed in with the green, red, and orange ones seem small in comparison to the other colors, with red and orange looking the biggest.

One exception was the menorah with eight long blue-and-white lights plus a small white night light on top -- those were very easy to see Sunday evening through my tortoise shell drop-temples -- as the menorah was on my kitchen windowsill. :)

Cactus Jack 14 Dec 2015, 18:25


The fact that you recognize that you are having vision issues is important. At the very least, you need to find out what is going on. The odds are that it is simply a mild refraction problem that is easily corrected with glasses.

After thinking about the symptoms you described, it is very likely that you have some mild Myopia or shortsightedness and possibly a bit of Astigmatism. The only way to tell much about any refractive error you have, is by getting an eye exam.

If you are like most adults who have made it this far without glasses, you are a bit apprehensive about wearing them. A few things to remember.

1, Glasses are simply tools to help you see better, comfortably and effortlessly.

2. People typically do not notice the lenses themselves, only the frames.

3. Carefully chosen frames can enhance your appearance.

4. You do not wear glasses for the benefit of others unless your vision is such that you cannot legally drive without your glasses.

5. People you know may comment about your glasses and want to try them. That will only last a day or two. After that, they may comment if you don't wear them.

If you decide that you would like to get an eye exam, let me know. We can chat some more and I have a few tips that you might find interesting.


Steven 14 Dec 2015, 13:07

I live in England.

I actually tried on a colleagues glasses at work, which she had recently got for driving and distance. I could tell a difference with them things looked sharper and colours a bit brighter. I guess this means I will be fit from getting my eyes checked.

I'm not sure how I feel about needing glasses as haven't had to think about needing them till now, I not sure if I will suit then or not.

Cactus Jack 14 Dec 2015, 11:22


I forgot to ask you where you live. The answer could affect my suggestions.

I suspect that you need some vision correction. Particularly at night.

If it turns out that glasses would be helpful, what do you think about wearing them?


Steven 14 Dec 2015, 00:26

Hi I'm 30 and work in an office, so spending of the day on a computer.

Cactus Jack 13 Dec 2015, 16:51


You really did not offer enough information to offer any suggestions. Information that would be helpful include:

Your age?

Your occupation?

I suspect you are viewing the Christmas lights in low ambient lighting conditions, such as after dark. Many vision issues become noticeable in low light that are not a problem in bright ambient light. The reason for this phenomenon is that in low light conditions your pupils open up to let in more light - think of the iris on a professional camera. When the iris or pupil is wide open, the depth of field or range of useful focus distance gets narrow. In bright light, your pupils contract which increases the range of useful focus.

I suspect you have developed some mild vision problems and should probably schedule an Eye Exam. Be sure and tell the examiner what you are experiencing. If you want to do a simple test, try looking at the Christmas lights through one of the holes in a button with each eye individually. If the lights are sharper looking through the button hole, it is likely that you have a correctable vision problem.

Please let us know what you decide to do and the results.


Steven  13 Dec 2015, 10:15

Hi I'm a new poster here. I don't wear glasses or thought I had any vision problems until the last couple of weeks. I have noticed that with Christmas lights seem to be blurry and I don't really seem to see them as individual lights. Is this normal or could it be a sign I may need glasses, as a part from that I haven't noticed any problem with my vision. I last had my eyes tested about 2 years ago and had no issues.

Likelenses 05 Dec 2015, 18:30

I have never seen so many high myopic cases discussed as here.

glassesforeveryone 25 Nov 2015, 02:38

Very interesting video on measuring prism...

glassesforeveryone 24 Nov 2015, 12:23

I've realised that I think I've always had the deviation, but it's only been diagnosed/dealt with recently.

When I was younger and had been drinking my vision would split. I figured that's what everyone felt like with a few drinks in them. Now I realise that this was my squint manifesting itself.

I do tilt my head a little to the same side in photos... Another sign I guess.

I am interested as to how far it will go eventually, especially the idea of having thick lenses on the outside if I end up with 10 dioptres each eye.

glassesforeveryone 24 Nov 2015, 11:59

Thanks Cactus Jack, that's reassuring.

Cactus Jack 24 Nov 2015, 11:45


Don't worry about anyone noticing the slight displacement caused by the Base Out prism. The actual pupil displacement, which is what people notice about at the eyes is about 0.1 mm per Prism Diopter. With a low plus prescription you would have to wear over about 10 to 15 BO for anyone to notice.

What people tend to notice is the increased outer edge thickness with BO prism, but with most lenses and low index it only amounts to about 1 mm per Prism Diopter increase at the outer edge of the lens, Edge thickness is more noticeable in MINUS lenses than PLUS lenses.

The important thing is to have comfortable vision with both eyes working together at all distances. Difficulty in keeping the two images from your eyes fused is extremely annoying and distracting. If your eye positioning system is having to work extra hard to keep the images fused, particularly when tired, you need to let your ECP know and ask for an increase in your prism correction. You actually have a pretty long way to go before anyone but and ECP or an OO would notice.


glassesforeveryone 24 Nov 2015, 07:06

I have got prism in my glasses. I started at 1 base out in the left eye only.

This progressed to 1 base out each lens and then 2 base out each lens.

I had a test today and have been prescribed 3 base out both eyes.

R +.75, -.25, 21 +1 3 Out

L +1.25, -.5, 165 +1 3 Out

I am a little concerned that people will see that my eyes cross a little. What I did notice is that the machine the optician was using was dialled in at 5 base out in each eye when we had finished that part of the test and I could feel that she was reducing it when asking me to read from the chart, so I wonder what my eyes were saying they wanted? I would imagine they were up at about 8 base out each eye.

I know all the reasons why opticians don't give the full requirement and this time I am happy to be under-prescribed because I don't want to end up obviously cross-eyed.

I am 40. Does anyone have any advice on whether my prism will increase with each visit in the future?

Thanks (also posted on Vision and Spex)

MisterMild 21 Nov 2015, 17:53

An epidemic of myopia:

Melyssa 21 Nov 2015, 09:15


I am rather nearsighted, to say the least, at -9.00. When I was a lot of many decades younger, I read a lot, but I never held the books close. I also played outside a lot, but that did not make my vision better. Even so, I can derisively thank my parents and grandparents for being nearsighted and passing those ancestral aberrations to me. Of course, having about 50 pairs of big, bold, and beautiful glasses, along with a husband who absolutely adores me in them, helps me cope quite a bit. :)

Likelenses 20 Nov 2015, 21:36


Minus six is pretty strong,and without correction you do not see much.

There are different thoughts as to why people become myopic. It is most likely genetic,but there is strong evidence that excessive close work can bring it on,or worsen it.

There is one thing that many believe can help,and that is to pay close attention to close work,and reading habits.You should try to read at no closer than twelve inches,and no closer than twenty inches for computer work,and that would be with glasses on.Many myopes find this difficult to do because they are used to large images without glasses,and they hold the work very close,and then when they get glasses the lenses make the images smaller,so they tend to want to hold the work close,when they should be pushing it farther away from their eyes.With glasses on they think that the images are too small,even though they are perfectly clear.

Claire 20 Nov 2015, 18:03

Yes is it bad -6.00?? Why are some people shortsighted and others have perfect vision? Is it how we look after our eyes or is it inherited?

Soundmanpt 19 Nov 2015, 11:57

Very LTLurker

Thank you for the kind words and no offense was taken. Actually I even began to doubt myself when I looked through this tread and didn't find anything. But I was pretty sure the -6.00 came from somewhere. So I was determined to find it and hoped that it somehow wasn't deleted maybe.

Very LTLurker 19 Nov 2015, 10:40

Thank you Soundman for clarifying this.

I would add that as the name suggests, I have oft dropped in on the site, so I was not doubting your integrity, but as I couldn't see anything on the thread that gace the detil, I wondered if a post had got lost in the ether or as you helped with to point me to the starting point.

Was not trying to offend.

Best wishes and thanks

Soundmanpt 18 Nov 2015, 17:37

Very LTLurker

I knew I didn't make that up and I was right. Look back at the "Post your Prescription" thread (Claire) 08 Nov 2015 11:34.

Very LTLurker 18 Nov 2015, 15:44

Forgive me if I am missing something, but I read

Soundmanpt 08 Nov 2015, 18:18


At -6.00 your well in range where lasik should easily bring your eyesight back to normal

Claire 08 Nov 2015, 11:49

When you first find out your shortsighted and need to wear glasses that's it you will be stuck wearing them. Eyes just kept getting more shortsighted so just happy to wear glasses in the end. Is sad when you can't see without glasses right??

Now for the life of me, I can't see where in Claire's first post, there is mention of her being -6.00. Is there a thread somewhere else where Claire provides this information?

Likelenses 14 Nov 2015, 21:46


Minus six is a great prescription,although I do prefer minus nine or greater.

My girlfriend is north of minus nine,and I am minus ten and a half.

Is your prescription still increasing?

Claire 14 Nov 2015, 14:31

I'm shortsighted -6.00 is really bad have to wear contacts or glasses all the time. When i first found out i needed glasses i said i wouldn't wear them but that didn't last long. I don't know how i so bad shortsighted every time i had my eyetest would get worse and need new glasses. I read that if you parents are shortsighted then you will be too so i guess it was going to happen.

Likelenses 08 Nov 2015, 20:49


What is your prescription?

Most of us here love girls in glasses,especially strong ones.

Soundmanpt 08 Nov 2015, 18:18


Yes it's true that once you become nearsighted (shortsighted) your eyes won't even change back to perfect vision again on their own. Of course if you dislike having to wear glasses and don't like contacts getting lasik is always an option. At -6.00 your well in range where lasik should easily bring your eyesight back to normal if you don't object to spending the money. You just have to wait until your eyes become stable for at least 18 months which will happen at some point. Most often somewhere in your early to mid twenties. But for some people they don't have any problem with wearing glasses and are even happy that they need to wear glasses. Melyssa the woman that posted just before you did has wore glasses for many years now and yes at first she didn't like wearing glasses but now she has made wearing glasses a fun thing for her by having around 50 different pairs in her prescription which she enjoys wearing several different pairs every day.

Claire 08 Nov 2015, 11:49

When you first find out your shortsighted and need to wear glasses that's it you will be stuck wearing them. Eyes just kept getting more shortsighted so just happy to wear glasses in the end. Is sad when you can't see without glasses right??

Melyssa 04 Nov 2015, 13:45


I also had a lot of astigmatism to deal with (still do). If your daughter has that, then contacts might not be easy to get, even though she probably is too young at this point for them. I was never able to handle them, so I have worn glasses for 51.5 years. My friend Kate started wearing glasses at age 10 (cat's-eyes like most of us girls), switched over to contacts in her mid-teens, and got Lasik (BOO!) early this century.

I was none too thrilled having to wear glasses for the first twenty years of my referee-like vision, but then I bought my first pair of drop-temples and I really liked how they looked on me, and I still have most of the oldest pairs in my current collection.

For sunglasses, I used a huge pair that fits over (just about) any regular pair of my glasses, needing them only for driving. As for makeup, even with the add, I can see what I'm doing in the mirror if I am just about up against it. :)

NJ 04 Nov 2015, 11:41

Tracey, just wanted to mention that, to my knowledge, no one here is professionally qualified to give you or your daughter medical advice. We're just a bunch of optical geeks who sometimes pretend to know more than we do. If you have specific concerns you should talk to your daughter's eye doc.

Regarding the claim that your daughter's ciliary muscles--those control the variable focus of the eyes--will be weakened if she reads without her glasses, there's not much evidence to suggest that's true. For one thing, even reading without glasses she's likely to hold the material at varying distances from her eyes, so that in itself will exercise her muscles.

There is some evidence that wearing bifocals at a young age will slow the progression of myopia, but the effect is not large. Again, that is something that you should discuss with your daughter's eye doc.

...just my $0.02's worth (as a medical professional but not an eye doc).

Soundmanpt 04 Nov 2015, 08:05


It would seem clear that since both you and your husband are quite nearsighted that like you say she didn't have much of a chance of avoiding glasses. Since your eyes seem to a bit less nearsighted than your husband's eyes you probably want her to have your genes of course for her eyes. Taking care of contacts properly is so important to good eye health that I really think she is better off for now anyway wearing her glasses and once you see how well she is able to take care of her glasses, which need for less care, then maybe when she about the same age as you were when you got contacts she should be more prepared to take care of contacts. Not to mention at 14 she will probably be quite interested in boys and much happier if she wasn't wearing glasses everyday. Of course even then I would not push her if she is okay with wearing glasses and doesn't care to wear contacts. But at 8 years old probably too young for contacts to even be considered. Keep us informed as to how she likes her glasses and how well she adjusts to wearing glasses.

Tracey 04 Nov 2015, 05:53


My husband comes from quite a nearsighted family. He is around a -13, his sister I think is a -9 and the in-laws wear pretty thick glasses as well. My father in law takes off his glasses and shoves whatever he is trying to read right into his face! Having said that, I'm also quite nearsighted, so I guess she has no chance does she?


It looks like she will end up with a prescription similar to yours (especially taking into account my vision and that of my husbands).

I just hate the thought of her not being able to see without the crutch of glasses or contacts from now. I hated mine growing up, it was annoying. Patting my nightstand for them in the morning, not being able to wear sunglasses, kissing was super awkward and putting on make up was near impossible.

Like I said before, she is a very active little girl. Would contacts be a good option at her age? I only got them when I was 14, I think she might be a bit young. She is getting her glasses tomorrow, will see how we go.

bracesfan 04 Nov 2015, 01:08


Sorry, but the calculator is pretty inaccurate. It´s just a toy. It can´t be accurate sourcing from only one small word trying to find edge of blur and focal length. It´s just a formula calculating "ideal" prescription from estimated focal length. For correct determination you just need to examine each eye separately and follow medical and optical needs. So you can´t také the "overcorrection" or "undercorrection" seriously.

Cactus Jack 03 Nov 2015, 22:19


You did not mention if your daughter's -1.75 was her complete prescription in both eyes. There can be other factors that full time wear more comfortable and more desirable. Most particularly Cylinder and Axis correction for Astigmatism. Astigmatism can make text hard to read at all distances and dictate full time wear.

If your daughter's complete prescription is -1.75 in both eyes, you can think of her myopia as having "built in" +1.75 reading glasses. That would make reading closer than 60 cm or 22.5 inches, very comfortable without glasses, but it has the downside of not exercising her Ciliary Muscles (focusing muscles). Normally, the Ciliary Muscles are the strongest muscles in the body for their size, but like all muscles they need exercising to keep them strong and in condition. It is likely that her Ciliary Muscles are out of condition and initially, she may have some headaches with her glasses while reading.

Sometimes, ECPs will under correct children for their first glasses to minimize discomfort while focusing close with their glasses. On rare occasions, it is necessary to temporarily fit bifocals until the Ciliary Muscles get used to doing their job.

Many years ago we had a 16 year old from Greece who got his first glasses with a bit over -3.00 for distance (have no idea how he managed that long without glasses). When he got his glasses, he discovered that he could not focus to read or use the computer. He went back to his ECP and was prescribed bifocals, but he still could not use the computer. At our suggestion, he went back again and was prescribed trifocals because his Ciliary Muscles were so weak. That solved the immediate problems, but I have no idea if he was ultimately able to condition his Ciliary Muscles and no longer need the trifocals because we never heard from him again.


Julie 03 Nov 2015, 20:49


Thank you for posting the calculator. You said that your prescription was accurate and your girlfriend was underprescribed. I have tried it at different times during the day as recommended. According to the calculator, I am overprescribed.

Were you able to get results e-mailed from your second posting?

Melyssa 03 Nov 2015, 12:39


I got my first glasses about age 8, and my prescription was -1.75/-1.50. Whether or not I should have worn them full-time, I only wore them to see the blackboard in school, to watch movies at Ye Olde Cinema, or to watch TV at home. At age 16 I went full-time, and my prescription continued to rise until reaching -9.00 in each eye by age 36, and not acquiring an add (now at +2.50) until I was 48. There is no way to know how your daughter's vision will go (and if I knew, I would be winning lotteries). Soundmanpt makes a good point in letting your daughter go sans glasses for close-up activities, but it is really up to her to figure out what would be best for her vision and comfort.

Soundmanpt 03 Nov 2015, 10:23


Your correct in thinking that a -1.75 prescription is a bit on the high side for being her first prescription. But it is what it is and there isn't anything you can do about it. To be honest her glasses are already at about the point where most people would be considering wearing their glasses full time. I think once she gets her glasses she is very quickly going to find that she wants to keep her glasses on all the time. You won't be doing her nay good by trying to restrict how much she wears her glasses. Truth is anything more than just a few feet away is going to be blurry for her if she doesn't have her glasses on. She isn't doing any harm to her eyes by wearing her glasses full time if she feels more comfortable having them on. Her eyes aren't going to get any worse wearing them than they will if she didn't wear them at all. The only thing you may want to try and have her take her glasses off when sh is doing a lot of close work such as studying or reading. That may be of some benefit to her. At this point there is no way to predict how much change her eyes are likely to experience through the coming years. You might be better able to make a bit of a guess after she has had a few increases to get an idea of the rate of increases and carry those numbers out until she is around 22 years old. But even that would only be a guess. Also you can use your husbands and your prescriptions as a basis as well. But you seem to to feel like she may have her dad's genes for her eyes so I assume if you wear glasses yours must be much weaker than his? I'm afraid you can only let nature take its' course with her. But remember she is only 8 by the time she is a young woman who knows what may be available to her that could bring her vision back to 20/20 if she doesn't want to wear glasses or contacts.

Tracey 03 Nov 2015, 09:08

My 8 year old daughter has just been to the eye doctor and we found out that she is nearsighted and need -1.75 lenses. I guess this is to be expected with my husband's eyes but still can't help but feel disappointed.

I have read that limiting her to only use her glasses when she really needs it can help slow the progression of her nearsightedness down. I'm worried for her eyes as I've been told that -1.75 is a pretty high prescription to start off with especially at her age but at the same time I want her to be able to see clearly to do the things she likes (she is a very sporty person!).

I know that it is going to get worse as she gets older but is there anything I can do to help prevent her eyes from getting worse? What prescription do someone who starts off wearing -1.75 end up with? I just don't want her to be dependent on corrective lenses for vision like her parents.

Julie 31 Oct 2015, 22:08


I was hoping for scores with my glasses and without my glasses on the second site that was sent but never received any score. I did get a result from the calculator.

Did you and your girlfriend receive a scores from the second site?

Likelenses 31 Oct 2015, 21:20


What were your results,and what is your present prescription?

Mine tested out to my exact Rx,and my girlfriend tested at a -1.00 undercorrection.

Julie 31 Oct 2015, 20:00

Interesting calculator. Interesting result.

Likelenses 31 Oct 2015, 19:39

About the most accurate online vision test I have found.

Likelenses 31 Oct 2015, 19:14

Pretty accurate calculator/

KL 26 Oct 2015, 14:13

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but here goes. Blog entry speaking up about the lack of social acceptance for glasses.

Puffin 19 Oct 2015, 03:41

I was in the Post office just now: whilst standing in the queue, I noticed a strange flashing or fluttering at the top of my vision. Uh-ho, retina problem? I thought.

No, it was a reflection on a bit of metal on the ceiling of the guy behind the counter counting out money.

I suppose that's to expect when you know about these things!

Slit 15 Oct 2015, 12:31

Vanity---try the multi-focal contacts. They work well for me.

Vanity 12 Oct 2015, 13:21

I was told a bit over a year ago that I should wear glasses for close. Vanity got the best of me, so I got a contact lens prescription, and wore a +1.25 in one eye only, and that worked great. I could easily see distance and close, and without the contact in could still see close. Now I am having difficulty without the contact in. I can see close with difficulty with the "contactless" eye, but can't focus at all with the eye that wore the contact. I went for an exam, and now he tells me I should wear -0.50 in each eye for distance, with an add of +2.00. I am curious to know why he carefully checked the acuity of each eye for distance, but only did the close for both eyes together, and although my close vision is very different between my eyes the prescription is the same? Can anyone explain that? Meanwhile I think the vanity will have to go!! into bifocals!!

Frank 07 Oct 2015, 21:29

Hi CJ and Kris,

Thank for the explanation, CJ. It allows me to calculate the deviation myself. 1ish mm should indeed not be visible, so it appears I could still receive an increase without it being too obvious. I am tempted to do that (but not full correction) for bad days or after sports (double vision) or after moderate alcohol consumption (eye muscle pain). But before going ahead with this I will try in how far plus lenses can make a difference in reading.

So far my first ECP generally used the XOX test at near to measure the deviation (probably because I mostly had problems at near), and the second one used a cross test at distance (two lines that he brought in alignment using prisms). I found the latter test much easier to perform and it provided better results.

Unfortunately, I recently moved and am reluctant to find a new ECP, which involves starting from scratch and only allowing situational measures. I will eventually need to go there again, but I would like to try to improve my visual comfort by ordering secondary glasses with varying prism prescriptions depending on need and hopefully gain back more muscle control.

Wearing prisms for a longer time have given me a stronger ability to consciously 'let go' (which is helpful for measuring the deviation). I think that is somewhat what you (Kris) are experiencing. Your eye muscles seem to have relaxed over time and make it harder to fuse images. Another aspect I only realised when doing CJ's prism test was that I have constant double vision when looking left and right without glasses. I didn't know that before. I have some control of the distance between the imags, but not fuse them. I don't notice that when wearing glasses, obviously because of the correction but probably also because my relatively large frames block vision in one eye beyond a certain angle. Anyway, that was a surprise: I thought this should be the same at all angles....

Thank you again for your help. Any suggestions or experiences are welcome. I will continue to report about mine.

Kris 06 Oct 2015, 23:42


Let us know how the testing goes as per CJ's suggestion. I agree that the vision issues are variable and sometimes hard to replicate in an ECPs office. I was prescribed prism based on the symptoms I reported (double vision and a lot of eye fatigue). In fact, I think my near add is as high as it is because my my strabismus issues weren't addressed earlier. Kind of like your increase in sphere prescription. The testing involved my ECP trialling different lenses to see what I found most comfortable. On a previous exam, he used a prism bar to see what my eye turn did, but I had denied any major issues with double vision (definitely played down the issue for him). When I finally went in to complain about the double vision He explained that he was going to give me the minimum prism to keep me comfortable, but definitely let it be known that this was only a starting off point and that my need would go up.

I'm concerned because I've noticed a recent increase in double vision after only a few months with my current prescription. I've been travelling for work, have been attending a lot of presentations (which is when I've traditionally had the most issues with my vision), and am over tired. I'm hoping that this settles once I get back into my normal routine. I don't want to have a noticeable prism prescription (as cactus has alluded to) and am not prepared to get new lenses (again) this year. I would like to have some stability in my prescription.

Let us know how retesting goes and what your ECP says when you see him again. I may try some vision exercises when I have a chance and am interested in how you find different interventions work for you.

Cactus Jack 06 Oct 2015, 16:47


Splitting the prism between the two eyes is LESS noticeable because each eye is turned inward the same amount. Even with 8 BO in each eye the angular displacement is only about 4.5 degrees each.

If we apply the definition of a Prism Diopter the displacement at 1000 mm (1 meter) the displacement would be 80 mm (8 cm). At 100 mm, the displacement would be 8 mm. At 10 mm, the displacement would be 0.8 mm. It is all proportional.

The center of rotation of the eyeball is the center of the sphere of the orb. A typical eyeball is about 25 mm in diameter with the cornea protruding slightly from the circumference. If we used 15 mm as the radius of the eyeball, and the proportional numbers above, the lateral displacement of the cornea would be approximately 1.2 mm when wearing 8 BO. Few people would notice that.

I the smallest amount of Prism that I wear is 7/7 BO, but sometimes have to wear substantially more to keep from seeing double. Even with 13/13 BO the only thing most people notice is the edge thickness of my glasses. I wear metal frames so there is no attempt to hide the thickness.


Cactus Jack 06 Oct 2015, 16:47


Splitting the prism between the two eyes is LESS noticeable because each eye is turned inward the same amount. Even with 8 BO in each eye the angular displacement is only about 4.5 degrees each.

If we apply the definition of a Prism Diopter the displacement at 1000 mm (1 meter) the displacement would be 80 mm (8 cm). At 100 mm, the displacement would be 8 mm. At 10 mm, the displacement would be 0.8 mm. It is all proportional.

The center of rotation of the eyeball is the center of the sphere of the orb. A typical eyeball is about 25 mm in diameter with the cornea protruding slightly from the circumference. If we used 15 mm as the radius of the eyeball, and the proportional numbers above, the lateral displacement of the cornea would be approximately 1.2 mm when wearing 8 BO. Few people would notice that.

I the smallest amount of Prism that I wear is 7/7 BO, but sometimes have to wear substantially more to keep from seeing double. Even with 13/13 BO the only thing most people notice is the edge thickness of my glasses. I wear metal frames so there is no attempt to hide the thickness.


Cactus Jack 06 Oct 2015, 16:47


Splitting the prism between the two eyes is LESS noticeable because each eye is turned inward the same amount. Even with 8 BO in each eye the angular displacement is only about 4.5 degrees each.

If we apply the definition of a Prism Diopter the displacement at 1000 mm (1 meter) the displacement would be 80 mm (8 cm). At 100 mm, the displacement would be 8 mm. At 10 mm, the displacement would be 0.8 mm. It is all proportional.

The center of rotation of the eyeball is the center of the sphere of the orb. A typical eyeball is about 25 mm in diameter with the cornea protruding slightly from the circumference. If we used 15 mm as the radius of the eyeball, and the proportional numbers above, the lateral displacement of the cornea would be approximately 1.2 mm when wearing 8 BO. Few people would notice that.

I the smallest amount of Prism that I wear is 7/7 BO, but sometimes have to wear substantially more to keep from seeing double. Even with 13/13 BO the only thing most people notice is the edge thickness of my glasses. I wear metal frames so there is no attempt to hide the thickness.


Frank 06 Oct 2015, 16:14


you are right. It should have been 16 (6 that I wear + 10 that I measured). You are suggesting that 8 pdptr on either side is hardly noticable. I must note that I suspect that my left eye is the one drifting in. If think about correction, should one still split that or wear it on the side of the deviating eye?

You are writing that prescriptions up to 10 pdptr are hardly noticable. From observation I find that even lower prescriptions become noticable when seen from an angle since the eyes will not turn to an equal degree.

I will try the +lens approach to prevent accommodation, and share my results.

Thank you for your comments.

Cactus Jack 06 Oct 2015, 09:18


I am not clear on how you arrived at 26 prism diopters if the displacement range you measured was 8 to 11 cm at 1 meter. I am wondering if you were confused by the fact that I asked Kris to divide his measurement in cm by 3. That was because his target was at 3 meters rather than 1 meter.

The definition of 1 prism diopter is 1 cm displacement at 1 meter. The reason I usually suggest doing the test at a distance farther than 1 meter is to try to avoid the convergence effects of trying to focus on something close.

You might get more accurate results at 1 meter by wearing your glasses and adjusting the results for the prism in your glasses. Ideally, you could assure ciliary muscle relaxation by wearing +1.00 reading glasses over your regular glasses. +1.00 reading glasses may be hard to find but +1.25 might be OK if you can read the displacement with them.

The reason that it is hard to fuse the images after the test is that your Rectus muscles are under constant stress to maintain fusion, without full correction and like any other muscles, they like to be relaxed. However, full relaxation and correction may not be a good thing because you do a lot of close work with computers. If you are fully corrected, your Rectus muscles will have to converge even more to fuse the close images. Also, In some ways, maintaining excessive convergence may have a similar effect as happens to your Ciliary Muscles where Latent Hyperopia is involved. Over convergence may make it difficult for your Rectus muscles to relax for distance vision and fuse the images. This can lead to more prism for distance and even more convergence to fuse close images, in a vicious spiral.

BTW, If you do the trigonometry related to the definition of a prism diopter, it turns out that it is a tangent function of 1cm/100cm = 0.01. The Arctangent (angle whose tangent is?) of 0.01 is about 0.57 angular degrees per diopter. Some people worry about wearing prism because of their concern that whey will appear cross eyed. My experience has been that up to about 10 prism diopters in each eye is very hard to detect unless you really know what to look for. BO Prism is easier to spot in Minus lenses because of the increased edge thickness, but not as noticeable in Plus lenses.

I hope this helps. If there is anything that you don't understand, please feel free to ask for a better explanation.


Frank 06 Oct 2015, 04:25

Hi Kris and CJ,

pardon for the late response. I don't always have the opportunity to respond immediately.

I followed CJ's advice performed the strabismus test. For practical reasons I performed it from a distance of about 1m. But since my major concerns are in reading distance, that may perhaps be an option. But I was surprised by the results: the observations (of two days) vary between 8 and 11 prism diopters depending on fatigue level and time of day. I must say that performing those tests was quite relaxing and my eyes felt very comfortable, but handling this double vision is obviously impractical. That means the prism range will be around 26 pdptr in total. (When observing my eyes I must say they were noticably crossed in this position.) I could not determine any vertical deviation.

I would prefer avoid this amount of correction, but what would be the easiest (and affordable) way of testing it, other than fresnel prisms? I think online shops do not offer such prescriptions.


I agree, training your muscles may not have an impact on your ultimate need, but it will make you comfortable with different prescriptions. Recall the relaxation when you got your first prism correction, but also how quickly it vanished after a few days, and instead made operating without correction hard or impossible. I would just hope that a reduced correction would lead to more overall comfort. This matches my experience with the tests. After relaxing my eyes for those few minutes I found it hard to maintain fusion for the rest of the evening (despite wearing my 6 pdptr correction).

By the way, my ECP did not suggest and ophtalmologist or any other specialist, but I should think about that next time I perform a test. I haven't done so in roughly two years, but I am admittedly not particularly comfortable performing those tests, since they depend on the situational performance. Everyday vision is more variable in my view, especially when it comes to eye alignment.

Which tools or tests did your ECP use to diagnose and determine your strabismus?

Soundmanpt 05 Oct 2015, 10:25


It probably just means that her eyes have changed a bit and she needs a new prescription in her glasses. It could even be that she may need bifocals? Hard to say for sure until she gets her eyes examined.

OnLooker 05 Oct 2015, 07:49

My wife has been a +1 hyperope for a few tears now with a light astigmatism . She had to do a lot of close up work on the pc screen for 7hrs percent dqy. Recently she staft d complaining that her glasses are bothering her. I wonder what that implies or means... Anyone to explain please

Kris 04 Oct 2015, 19:28

Have you asked you ECP about seeing an ophthalmologist. I had inquired about seeing one and my ECP was dismissive. He didn't provide a great explanation and I'm wondering what other ECP's think about it.

I also put glasses on as soon as I get up in the morning and I can't really say how my vision compares at that time compares to later in the day. Before wearing prism I would wait until I'd had my shower to put my glasses on, but now don't even want to go without for that short a period of time.

You commented that you feel that it's your fault you are having more problems lately, but in the limited time I've been wearing prisms I feel like the choice is wearing full time or being very uncomfortable. I agree that it may be worth trying a lower prism prescription, where possible, to keep the muscles trained. I do wonder how much difference this will really make in my ultimate prism need, but you never know.

Are you having an eye exam soon? It would be interesting to find out what your ECP's opinion is on your issues.

Cactus Jack 03 Oct 2015, 23:53


I posted this Simple Prism Test on the Vision and Spex site a while back. You may find it useful to check out that site under the last topic in the list under Prisms.

I have had several requests for the following test for prism correction.

It is not hard to measure the amount of prism it would take for full correction. All it takes is some adding machine or cash register tape, a marking pen, some painters or masking tape (ideally with very weak "stick-um" for easy removal) and something to measure distances.

It is a little easier to work with metric measurements, but you can do it also with inches and feet. You just have to do a little more math for conversions between the two.

This test is based on the definition of 1 prism diopter as: "That amount of prism that will deflect a ray of light 1 cm at a distance of 1 meter (100 cm)".

Ideally, this test is done without any prism correction in your glasses, but you need to be able to see some calibration marks on the adding machine tape with reasonable clarity. If you can't see the marks without glasses, you can still do the test, but you must account for the prism in the glasses.

1. Select a fairly blank wall that you can attach the calibrated adding machine tape to, using the painters or masking tape.

2. Decide where you will stand or sit while doing the test. Between 3 and 4 meters or 10 and 14 feet works best. Measure the distance from that location to the wall selected in Step 1.

3. Calculate how much displacement 1 prism diopter represents at the distance measured in Step 2.

4. Using the marker, mark the adding machine tape with major divisions 5x the distance calculated in Step 3 and optional minor tick marks at 1 prism diopter intervals. The marks need to be big enough to see easily from the distance in Step 2. You might want to identify the major divisions as 0, 5, 10 etc. Note: Some large bold markers will bleed through the adding machine tape and permanently mark the surface you are using as temporary backing for the adding machine tape. Test and take appropriate precautions to prevent damage by the marker ink.

5. Attach the adding machine tape, stretched out horizontally, to the wall selected in Step 1.

6. On another short piece of adding machine tape mark an arrow lengthwise and attach that piece of tape to the wall, vertically, so the arrow is pointing at 0.

You are ready to do the test.

7 Place yourself at the location selected in Step 2, let your eyes relax so you see double and note where the "0" arrow appears to point in the displaced image. Try this test several times during the day and at varying degrees of fatigue. Make a note of your results.

8. If you are wearing glasses with prism, adjust the readings in Step 7 for the total prism in the glasses.

This test will work with horizontal prism (Base Out or Base In) or vertical prism (Base Up or Base Down) by the placement of the long tape and short tape. Often both horizontal and vertical prism exist at the same time.

Note: It is sometimes difficult, if small amounts of prism are involved, to tell if the prism correction needs to be Base Out or In, Up or Down. You may be able to tell by noticing which way the images are displaced when you block the eyes alternately. For example, if you cover the right eye and the image from the left eye is on the left, you probably need more Base Out.

Please Let me know if you have any questions and if this works for you.


Frank 03 Oct 2015, 22:43

Hi Kris and Cactus Jack,

thank you for your responses.

I didn't have any eye problems as a child, but started wearing glasses for reading in late school years. But I pretty much immediately went full time. Around 10 years ago an optometrist proposed I should try wearing prism correction (2 BO) since he suggested they weren't fully aligned. But I didn't really have problems, so did not follow that advice.

However, in the last few years I got problems with reading again (I work as developer in the IT industry). The ECP did not want to increase my sphere and instead prescribed me 2 BO prism, which somewhat helped. A year later I went to a different ECP and he increased my sphere by 0.75 and the prism to the current value. I must admit I had never seen as good in my life. But he warned me that the deviation would be likely to increase but suggested that I would be able to maintain fusion. However, now, after a few years, my eyes have gotten adjusted to the prism correction and I started to see double more and more. But that was probably in part my own fault, since I wear glasses all the time. I wouldn't imagine not wearing them even at home other than showering.

Looking back I would have preferred to first ECP to try increasing the sphere first (to eliminate that component - similar to what CJ suggested now), before moving on to prism, which I was very used to already before actually getting a plus sphere increase.

Cactus Jack:

Both ECPs used subjective refraction, but had different lighting conditions. ECP 1 had a dark room, ECP 2 had a dimly lit room. My suspicion is that I show lower plus sphere values at night (i.e. are a bit less far-sighted) than at day time. Could that be part of the solution? I still notice that I have worse vision at night (probably too strong at night), but very comfortable vision at day time.


I am also very interested to see how far the prism correction would go. When I first open my eyes in the morning, the images are way off - way stronger than I have throughout the day (my estimate is around 25cm/meter). So that seems to be the fully relaxed position, but I have no way of accurately measuring this. But that would possibly be part of the answer.

I generally put on glasses immediately before even bringing the images together - if I try to fuse the images without glasses I get a strong muscle pain that will accompany me for large parts of the day. But this is the point where I think training might help by simply using weaker prism corrections when permissible. I will just need to find out the prism steps. Or are there any alternative stick-on prisms other than the fresnel prisms (which cannot be used for reading anyway)?

cactus jack 03 Oct 2015, 19:31


The definition of a prism diopter is 1 cm deflection at a distance of 1 meter. Alloy need to do is divide the displacement you got at 3 meters by 3 to arrive at the prism required to fully correct. However, if the amount of separation is too much, your eye position control system will have trouble deciding how to position your eyes to help fuse the images and will often drift farther inward than you actually need. The numbers you got without prism indicate between 36 and 39 diopters at 1 meter, With your 4/4 BO glasses you should have measured about 28 to 31 diopters, but you got 23 to 25. That is because the 8 diopters of BO prism brought the images closes to fusion and your Eye Position Control System started helping. You probably not need Full correction, but you may find that wearing a bit more prism would help.

With your low PLUS prescription, you can probably wear up to about 10 BO in each eye without it being very noticeable, but you may have trouble getting progressives with that much prism.


Kris 03 Oct 2015, 12:26


I started with 2 BO prisms in a pair of reading glasses in the spring, but found I was getting a lot of motion sickness moving from prism for reading to no prism in my progressives. I still use those reading glasses at night, but went full-time with prism within a month or so of getting the readers. I started with 2 BO in my progressives and although I found improvement, I still had issues with double vision and went up to 4BO in my progressives in July. The readers with 2 BO are fine, but I suspect I would be better off with more prism in them as I sometimes find that the print starts to get a little fuzzy if I'm reading for awhile. I never really noticed double vision at near before wearing prism, but do know that I had a lot of issues with eyestrain. Since getting prism glasses, I've been reading a lot more.

I'm not really sure using less prism in my readers is helping to keep my prism needs stable, but I like to think it will help. I don't have lower prism lenses for my progressives, but suspect I would be uncomfortable wearing them for any length of time.

Like you Frank, I cannot maintain fusion at all with my glasses off and my eye instantly drifts in without glasses. This is a lot worse since wearing prism and I now dislike having to take my glasses off around others. I notice that when I look in the mirror through the distance part of my lenses my eye turns in, but through the add it does not. Frank, I think you may find an add helpful and it will make close work more comfortable. It was recommended that I needed an add when I first started wearing glasses at 38, but pride did not allow me to accept the recommendation for a year. Using progressives definitely made my vision more comfortable and reduced my issues with eyestrain.

I. too. find that I cover my eye when tired to avoid double vision. I accept that I need prism but would like to avoid going up too much on my script. I suspect that I will need more at some point, but if exercises help, I will consider trying them. I have tried going without prism when doing things around the house, but find my right eye watering and my eyes straining to maintain fusion.

I won't have another eye exam until next year when my insurance will pay for new lenses and frames. My plan is to get new glasses so that I will have a backup pair with prism. If I end up going up on prism, then I will try wearing the lower prism ones to see if that helps with stabilizing my prescription.

Do you know what the cause of your strabismus is, Frank? I had childhood strabismus, had corrective surgery and wore glasses as a young child but went years without seeing an optometrist (my current OCP tells me I should have been wearing glasses for years). I can always remember being able to see double, but the ability to re-fuse the images has worsened as I've gotten older (I'm now 44).

I would love to know what my true prism need is, but it's a lot trickier than the hyperopia prescription need. I struggle with understanding what sorts of issues with double vision I accept and when I need to consider more prism. I think I became so used to my vision issues, that I never really appreciated what comfortable vision should feel like.

Let me know how the exercises work for you. I'm considering trying them as well.

Cactus Jack 03 Oct 2015, 09:05


I need to think about your situation a bit, but I have a couple of thoughts and ideas to try.

I suspect your Hyperopia is probably fully corrected with little or no Latent Hyperopia.

Your Astigmatism may be a factor because it affects vision at all distances and your focusing system may try to correct the problem using your ciliary muscles and crystalline lens, which simply won't work for Astigmatism. Usually, Astigmatism is caused by uneven curvature of the front surface of the Cornea and the only way to correct it is with glasses (best solution) or Toric Contacts (only works for some people, very hard to fit properly), or refractive surgery of some type

It seems to be common, that people who have Hyperopia to need close focusing help before the mythical age of 40. Presbyopia actually starts in childhood, but does not become a problem until you get older. If you are straining (maybe without your being aware of it) to focus to read or use the computer, that action could be making the inward turning worse. You can check this out pretty easily by simply trying a pair of inexpensive Over-the-Counter reading glasses, over your regular glasses. I would start with say +1.50 and see if that makes any difference. If it helps, we can offer some relatively low cost suggestions.

Having glasses with different amounts of Prism is reasonable because you need to do whatever allows you to maintain fusion to comfortably function. In general you should use the least prism possible, but comfortable functionality is the most important consideration.

There are 6 external muscles on each eye in 3 opposing pairs. They move the eyes left and right, up and down, and obliquely. The general term for what You, Kris and I have is Strabismus or more specifically Esophoria or Esotropia where the eyes turn inward. Often, it is referred to as Muscle Imbalance, but there can be other causes. Muscle Imbalance means that one of the muscles in the muscle pair is stronger than the other. The idea of the training, where the eyes have a tendency to turn inward, is to strengthen the outside (Lateral Rectus) muscles so they can better oppose the inside (Medial Rectus) muscles, but it is a slow process. The training won't help if the problem is in the control nerves or the Eye Motion Control Center in the brain.

I have a few more questions:

1. What is your occupation?

2. Have you consulted a Pediatric Ophthalmologist about this?


Frank 03 Oct 2015, 07:05

Hi guys,

thank you for your response.

I am 35 and live in Austria. I have been wearing + prescriptions for the last 20 years, with the most recent adjustments two years ago. Since I had problems reading, the script was intentionally slightly overcorrected. At the same time I got the current prism script.

Trying the exercises is a good idea. But I will indeed need prescription glasses for this as I can't maintain fusion if I focus on close objects or without glasses (I believe the astigmatism could be the issue here).

How about having a selection of prism prescriptions, so I could wear a weaker one for whole day (or at least as long as possible) instead or in addition to exercises? Kris, can you still wear weaker prescriptions than your 4 BO?

At least for me just leaving the prisms out is not an option anymore - I can only fuse the images with constant effort and as soon as I focus my left eye drifts off. In fact on bad days I have trouble maintain fusion in the first place, so I actually thought about getting stronger prisms for those occasions (when I need to concentrate but the eyes don't fuse properly -- in this case I tend to cover or close one eye to get things done). Did anyone try this variation of prisms to train the eye muscles, or is that pointless?

Kris, I don't have near add yet, but I am wondering if that could relieve the double vision when reading. Do you notice any difference in eyeturn when reading with or without add?


Kris 02 Oct 2015, 20:51


I have done the prism test procedure a few times. I checked today and without prism using an old pair of glasses the images are about 110-118 cm apart at 3 meters. With the current prism lenses the image is about 70-75 cm apart, but I can bring it back together. This is at the end of a tiring work week and a beer tonight. This is not far off the last time I checked. Before prisms images were 75-90cm apart with my old lenses.

I've followed the hyperopia thread for awhile (started wearing glasses about the same time Macrae posted, and started lurking on the site then) and have read your explanations on hyperopia. I believe that I've got my full hyperopia prescription as it has only had minor tweaks in the last few years. My presbyopia has drastically worsened in the last year (I seem to have the biggest decline in fall for reasons I don't really understand). I've gone from being able to read without glasses for short periods of time a year ago (with good light and a little arm stretching) to not really knowing which bottle is conditioner and which is shampoo in the shower and really struggling to make out words.

I also have a question about astigmatism. I had an eye exam by a student a few years ago. She started by taking a bunch of measurements of my eyes and shining a light into them and coming up with an objective measure of my prescription this way. She then did subjective measures with the typical "which is better" question. There was some comment about me not accepting my full astigmatism correction, but I'm not sure if this is a common occurrence. From what I could make out her calculation of my right eye script was 2.5 -1 or -1.25. I think I was using a +1.5 lens without astigmatism correction at that time. I can't remember what the left eye correction was although she had detected some astigmatism in that eye as well. Does this indicate that I may need more astigmatism correction at some point or do people often not need this fully corrected?

I am interested in trying the exercise you described but may not be able to do it for a bit as I am travelling for work all next week. Will see how it goes.

Cactus Jack 02 Oct 2015, 19:12


I apologize for not remembering your previous posts. I used to try to keep track of everyone, but it became too much of a burden.

Have you ever tried to do the prism test procedure I outlined on the Vision and Spex site? It uses the definition of a prism diopter to allow you to measure the actual amount of over convergence your have and therefore what you would need for full correction. However, full correction is often not desirable or necessary.

Have you read my explanation about how the focus control system and convergence are interrelated? Often, if a person with Hyperopia is under corrected, they will use their ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses to supply the additional PLUS they require to see clearly. This focusing effort will trigger a convergence response and cause the eyes to turn inward.

The Vision training exercise that may be helpful, is to use a long piece of light rope (very light nylon works nicely) or heavy twine with a target object on it, perhaps a large bead. The idea is to loop the rope around a object perhaps 10 feet or 3 meters away and use the ends of the rope to move the "target object" away from you while tracking it with your eyes, Ideally without any prism correction in your glasses. You start with the target close enough so that you DO NOT see double and then slowly move the target away while maintaining fusion. If you break fusion, bring the target close enough to re-fuse the two images and do the exercise again trying each time to maintain fusion as the target moves farther away.

Please let me know if any of this sounds interesting or familiar.


Kris 02 Oct 2015, 17:24

Hi Cactus,

I've posted several times on the Hyperopia/Presbyopia thread about my need for prism. Things have been going well, but have recently noticed some signs that maybe my prism script isn't as stable as I'd hoped. I've had a busy, tiring month so hope some of the issues are related to that. I know I still work to maintain single vision, but find it easier to slip into double vision than when I first started with my current script. It's not troublesome and I can quickly re-fuse to single vision. I can't help but wonder if I can do something to stop my eyes from slipping into double vision and to help keep my prism script stable.

Cactus Jack 02 Oct 2015, 07:58


Welcome to the mysterious and confusing world of Hyperopia and Prism. Sounds like you and Frank have some of the same issues. While I don't have Hyperopia, sssI have been dealing with Prism issues for about 30 years. Will try to find time over the weekend to explain more about Prism and the exercises.

Have an eye exam in a few hours that will probably require dilation, so I probably will not be seeing well until tomorrow.

It would be helpful if you could also answer the appropriate questions I asked Frank.


Kris 01 Oct 2015, 19:06


I've been considering posting this question as well. I've only been wearing prisms full time since June and currently have 4BO in each lens (Prescription is L +1, R +1.75-0.5 and have a 2.5 add). Earlier this month I attended a number of presentations where I noticed that, when tired, I'd slip into double vision while watching although I could easily correct it. Then I spent a long weekend with friends, with too little sleep and too much alcohol. I found that by the end of the evenings I was straining to maintain fusion.

That made me realize that although I am much more comfortable since wearing prism, it doesn't take much to destabilize fusion and to start to see double. It seems like if I relax my eyes too much or focus too hard I start to see double. I'm afraid of tipping the balance I've had in my vision and having more and more problems with double vision.

I, too, have wondered if there are exercises or other things I can do to avoid going up on my prescription. I've tried wearing my old glasses that don't have prism, but find it uncomfortable and difficult to maintain fusion. I would be interested in others' experience in trying to avoid further increases in their prism.

Cactus Jack 01 Oct 2015, 08:01


You did not mention your age, which might be helpful. Also, it would be helpful to know how long you have been wearing glasses for Hyperopia (+ sphere). Your Astigmatism is a complicating factor, but usually not a big factor in your situation.

It is not uncommon for people who have uncorrected Hyperopia to also have some double vision problems, a form of Strabismus known as Esophoria and sometimes Esotropia. A somewhat inexact definition of Esophoria is where they eyes try to turn inward or cross, but you can fuse the images with effort.

In some instances, you may be able to do some visual training with a simple training aid you can build yourself using just a string and a brightly colored bead on the string, but you will probably need some glasses without any prism.

The problems you are describing can be very complex and depending on the cause, the training may be completely ineffective or will work, at least for the short term. If the training is ineffective, the only solutions are increased plus in your glasses, increased prism or possibly muscle surgery.

If you have your complete prescription, you can order some very inexpensive glasses from an online retailer such as Zenni Optical. We can help you with all of this if you are interested.

Here are the questions mentioned above and a few more.

1. Your age?

2. How lone have you been wearing glasses with + sphere correction?

3. What is your Occupation?

4. Where do you live? (country)


Frank 01 Oct 2015, 05:40

I have a question for prism wearers. Did anyone have success reducing the amount of prism over time?

My prescription is +2.5, cyl -2.00 in both eyes, along with 3 prisms BO on each side. Recently, I have noticed that when I get tired or drink alcohol I have strong muscle pain in my eyes and need to relax them by closing them. Then I see double without glasses and am generally unable to bring the images together (normally I see double as well, but I can fuse them with effort and for short times).

My question: Will it be possible to retrain the eye muscles to some extent by changing prescriptions in order to avoid increases (or at least have better control about my eyes)? My partner frequently accused me of looking through her, although I didn't, so I presume my eye alignment becomes visible.

Rather than increasing the prism right now, I am thinking about training the eyes by varying it? Right now I don't have any glasses with lower or without prisms anymore, so I can't test it, but I am thinking about ordering some. Without glasses I have a very fuzzy vision, close or far, so that is not an option.

Do you guys have any experience with varying prism prescriptions or how improve my eye control?

If you think I am wasting money by trying it, let me know. I guess I am already very used to prisms (wearing them for 3 years), and reading from the other stories there may already be no way back, but on the other hand, my values are quite low ...

Cactus Jack 29 Sep 2015, 13:28


I would suggest that you consider some bifocal computer glasses with the following prescription for the 32 inch distance for the display:

R +3.50 -1.75 102

L+3.75 -1.00 100

You need and additional +1.25 in the sphere for focusing at 32 inches.

You will likely need an ADD of +1.50 for a reading distance of 14 inches (an ADD of +2.75. However, you probably don't have much accommodation left, so I would suggest measuring the distance from your eyes to the Keyboard and the location of any reference material you might need to read while using the computer an let me recalculate the ADD to focus at that distance with the revised computer prescription.


Brian 29 Sep 2015, 13:06

Anneke, What is your prescription?

Anneke 29 Sep 2015, 12:21

My eyes have got worse again and now I need even thicker glasses. When will it stop? I am seventeen.

Stingray 29 Sep 2015, 09:32

I just got a new prescription and found out my computer glasses just don't do the trick any longer. Perhaps someone can come up with a new prescription for me based on the information below. I sit 32 inches away from the computer monitor. My new prescription is:

R +2.25 -1.75 102

L+2.50 -1.00 100

Add +2.75

Thank you.

Puffin 29 Sep 2015, 07:09

OK lets start again.

Say you're 10-12 years old. You have quite a bit of hyperopia which is undiagnosed. At the moment you're using your accommodation to avoid the problem at all distances. Everything seems ok.

You then get to your early teens and your accommodation has gone down a little, although overall your vision is good enough for distance, reading is becoming a problem - you get headaches, etc.

So you go to the Optician and he finds you've got a lot of hyperopia, which up until now you've got around by using your accommodation. You're prescribed a low plus RX with the expectation that this will increase as your cilary muscles relax. You wear these full time: they are not readers or for close work only.

I was just wondering if there was a way to predict the adult RX from this initial one.

Julian 29 Sep 2015, 05:06

>The scenario is that you've just run out of accommodation for use in helping you read closeup.

OK, but that Rx was for full time use. Is that likely?

Puffin 29 Sep 2015, 03:12


The scenario is that you've just run out of accommodation for use in helping you read closeup. So you get a low plus RX to start you on your way to your full RX. I just wonder if there's a strong correlation between that starting RX and the full RX? Enough to make predictions?

Julian 29 Sep 2015, 03:08

Puffin: I imagine a lot depends on whether +2.5 is the full extent of your hyperopia, or just the maximum Rx you're able to tolerate as an early teen. Couldn't it just be a starter while your eyes learn to relax into it, with a lot more to come before you're an adult?

Puffin 29 Sep 2015, 01:39

I don't know if it's possible to estimate this, but I've been wondering about the following scenario: lets say you're an early teen about 13yo with typical accommodation. You're diagnosed with hyperopia, and given say +2.5 lenses to look through full time.

It is possible to estimate roughly how much hyperopia RX you will have by the time you are a young adult, lets say 8-10 years later? Or does eyeball shape changes complicate things too much?

Cactus Jack 18 Sep 2015, 11:46


Yes, you can choose your prescription, within reason. It would be helpful to know:

1. Your complete prescription?

2. Where you live?

3. Your age?

It is very likely that if your present Sphere is around -5.00, your Sphere could be around -1.50 after the surgery. All that is necessary is to implant an IOL that has less PLUS power than your existing Crystalline Lens. Unfortunately, it is not possible to know the actual power of your Crystalline Lenses without the Ultrasound measurements I mentioned in a previous post.

It is important to choose the Prescription you want to live with from here on. Modern Cataract Surgery to replace your Crystalline Lenses with IOLs is very fast and very safe. It is possible to remove the IOLs after they are immolated, but that is a VERY serious surgery similar to the Cataract Surgery that was done many years age, before IOLs were invented. I think we need to talk about this some more. If you feel uncomfortable discussing this here, please feel free to contact me privately at


REd 18 Sep 2015, 10:46


My wife had cataract surgery a month ago. She had very high astigmatism ~ 5.

A toric lens cost $1200 more. We selected it; she has zero astigmatism. She needs glasses for reading only.

I had cataract surgery ~ 3 years; I did not choose to eliminate my myopia. Bad decision by me.

I hope this helps you

Corrine 18 Sep 2015, 10:27

Thank you Cactus Jack.

Do you mean I can actually choose my correction? I am reluctant to do monovision as I have sensitive eyes and think that might put me off balance. I am now about -5 or so, and can't function at all without my glasses. I also have astigmatism. The Dr I consulted with says that for an additional $1000 they can put in a lens that will correct that. Is he right or is that a hustle? Are you saying that a moderate distance prescription might leave me being able to read without glasses? How moderate? like -1.50?


Cactus Jack 16 Sep 2015, 22:43

Farsighted Boy,

Hyperopia and its causes and effects are confusing because the Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses get into the act.

Interpreting the results of this test are also confusing, even for me, and I have interpreted many. The problem is that corrective lenses are the reverse of the actual refractive error. Lets see if we can fumble our way through it.

The +1.50 readers did three things, they allowed your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses to relax as much as possible, (but we don't know if they were fully relaxed), they made you effectively nearsighted, and lastly brought your focal distance into a range you could easily measure.

The important thing is the 96 cm you measured. 96 cm is pretty close to 100 cm or the focal distance of a +1.00 lens. However, you were wearing +1.50 lenses. The effective total was +0.50 less than it should have been. If your glasses prescription is accurate the total optical sphere power of every element in the system is:

Your eyes -1.25, corrected by +1.25 glasses, and the +1.50 readers = +1.50

But the result you got was +1.00. That means that your eyes are probably about -1.75 and you should be wearing +1.75 sphere in your glasses to let your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses relax as much as they can, at this time. Hopefully, you are getting close to the end point where your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses are fully relaxed for distance and you have lots of effortless accommodation for close work.

Welcome to the joys of Latent Hyperopia.

I don't know what kind of arrangement you have with your ECPs, some will remake glasses at no charge if your prescription changes within a certain time period. If you are having to pay for each new prescription, I would like to suggest a low cost experiment.

Order some very low cost glasses from Zenni or other online retailer with the following prescription.

R :+1.75, -0.50 174

L:+1.75, -0.75 24

Notice that I only adjusted the Sphere portion of the prescription.

I asked where you live, but you said Suburbs, but did not say what country.

I live in Houston, TX and I just ordered a spare pair of glasses from Zenni for a neighbor. He is much more Farsighted than you are, +2.75 and +5.00. He is in serious trouble if something happens to his glasses. We picked a US$6.95 frame with standard lenses and the cheapest anti-reflective coating. The total with shipping was US$16.85.

He is accustomed to paying around $200 for glasses and he was skeptical about the quality of the glasses. This was a trial order to check his vision with the glasses. If he likes the optical results, he plans to order a pair with higher index lenses and a nicer frame.

Your prescription is low enough that you probably don't need very high index lenses, but an AR coating would be useful.

Please let me know what you decide to do and I will be happy to help you with the order. The only other things you need to order is your PD and a Credit Card. If you decide to get glasses with increased + Sphere, it may take a few days for your distance vision to clear up as it did with your previous prescriptions.

I hope all this makes sense. If you have any problems understanding it, please let me know.


Cactus Jack 16 Sep 2015, 21:36


Modern Cataract surgery involves removal of your clouded Crystalline Lens and replacement with an Intra Ocular Lens (IOL). I had Cataract surgery in 2001 and several of my friends have had the surgery more recently. My experience and theirs has been that it is about the nearest thing to a non-event type of surgery that you can imagine and recovery in all instances is almost immediate. That being said, it is still surgery and there is an element of risk, but you can minimize the risk and reduce it to near ZERO by carefully following your surgeon's instructions.

One of the really neat things about Cataract surgery is that you can almost choose what you want your prescription to be, after the surgery. However, you can't choose your EXACT prescription for two reasons. The first is that IOLs are only available in a range of +10 to +30 in steps of 0.50. The second reason is that your Eye Surgeon will use a painless ultra sound device to measure your eyeball and calculate the approximate power of your Cornea and what power IOL will give you the final prescription you want, but it may not be exact because the of the tiny dimensions involved. For example, refractive errors are about 0.3 mm per diopter, If you presently need -6.00 diopter glasses, your eyeball is about 1.8 mm too long.

It is even possible, in some instances, to fine tune your prescription after Cataract surgery using Lasik.

You will probalby need glasses after surgery for either distance vision or for reading. Many people who are nearsighted, as you are, choose to have their nearsightedness corrected so their distance vision without glasses is good. Others decide to only partially correct their nearsightedness so they can read without glasses, but still need relatively low prescription MINUS glasses for distance.

I chose what is called Mono-Vision where one eye is corrected to near 20/20 for distance and the other eye is about -1.50 for closer work. I can function pretty well without my glasses. If I need to get up at night, I can find and read a prescription bottle without my glasses, but if I want my vision to be really sharp at all distances, I put on my tri-focals. If I want to read a while, I have a pair of prescription single vision reading glasses.

I needed Cataract surgery on both eyes and I have to admit that I was very apprehensive (scared) about the first surgery. I had been told by other who had had the surgery that it was really Minor Surgery. Wrong! Minor Surgery is surgery on somebody else. But it turned out that they were right. The prep took longer than the surgery and there was no pain involved. The first eye was the one that was to be corrected for distance. The next day, I took that lens out of my glasses and drove myself to the doctors office so he could check for problems. There were none and I was absolutely delighted with the results. I could not wait to ask the doctor when he could do the other eye. The answer, two weeks, to make sure there are no problems. When the day came, I breezed into the Outpatient Surgery department and was not in the least apprehensive.

It has been 14 years and I have never regretted having the surgery for 1 second.

My friends were very apprehensive and wanted to wait as long as possible. I suggested that would be a mistake and told them of my experiences. They went ahead and are glad they did.

I hope your surgery is as "pleasant" as ours was and the outcome is what you want. Please keep us advised of your experiences. If you have more questions, please feel free to ask.

May I ask where you live?


Farsighted Boy 16 Sep 2015, 20:54


Cactus Jack 16 Sep 2015, 20:37

Farsighted Boy,

What was the power of the OTC readers and confirm you were wearing them OVER your regular glasses with +1.25 Sphere in each eye.


Farsighted Boy 16 Sep 2015, 18:04

**sorry, i meant 96

Farsighted Boy 16 Sep 2015, 18:02

Alright so i'm a little confused about how to interpret my results. I got around 66 cm in my test. how much add could I assume I need with that result?

Soundmanpt 16 Sep 2015, 15:59


Interesting that you even have to choose one or the the other. My mother, may she rest in peace had cataract surgery as I recall about 25 years ago or more and at the time she wore bifocals even and they fitted her with permanent contact lenses that corrected her vision completely for distance as well as close up. Her vision was perfect and she was told that she didn't need glasses anymore. But because she had wore glasses nearly all her life she didn't want to be glasses free so they prescribed her a very weak prescription for distance which I would guess was maybe -.50.

But I think if you need to decide then I think you would be much happier with something for distance since your already used to that anyway and your glasses will look nicer than farsighted glasses will look.

But I would be very interested to know why they can't correct your eyes 100%.

Slit 16 Sep 2015, 15:20

Let us know how your cataract surgery goes.

Corrine 16 Sep 2015, 13:30

I am scheduled for cataract surgery next month. My current glasses are -4.5L an -5.00R. They have asked me if I want to wear glasses for close or far. How do I decide. How strong would such glasses be, for either close or far? What would the prescription be?

Likelenses 16 Sep 2015, 01:15


Some people have a low tolerance for blur produced by myopia,and it sounds like you are one of them.

It is probably best to wear glasses,or contacts all the time.

By next year your Rx will most likely be at -3.00 or so,and you will then find it very difficult to be without correction.

I don't think that your Rx will ever get stronger than -5.00,but there is a condition known as adult onset myopia that often begins in the twenty year range,and can continue to increase into later years.

Cactus Jack 15 Sep 2015, 20:46

Farsighted Boy,

This is a simple test that uses the most basic law of optical physics.

Focal Distance = 1 meter or 100 cm or 1000 mm or 39.37 inches, divided by lens power in diopters.

1. In a well lighted room, put on the reading glasses over your regular glasses. This will have the effect of making you optically myopic. The reason I suggest +1.50 or +1.75 is that will cause the focal distance to be convenient to measure accurately.

2. Hold the book (or newspaper) close enough so the normal fairly small text is clear.

3. Gradually move the text away from you until it just begins to become fuzzy around the edges of the letters.

4. Measure the distance from your eyes to the text.

5. Repeat 3 times and average the distance.

Using an inversion of the formula above, divide the distance into 1 meter or the appropriate unit for the measuring tool you used. To determine the effective power of the glasses you were wearing. For example, lets say that the text began to get fuzzy at a distance of 50 cm. That would mean that the effective power of all the elements in your artificial lens system was

100/50 = +2.00 diopters.

Ideally your glasses corrected your vision to 0.00, but if you were wearing +1.50 reading glasses over your regular glasses, the effective power of the combination was +2.00. That meant that your glasses were +0.50 stronger than you needed. If the distance was more than 66.6 cm it would mean that your glasses were not as strong as you need.

You should do the test early in the morning just after you wake up and late in the evening when you are tired and compare the numbers.

Please let me know how this works for you, have any questions, need help with the calculations, or interpreting the results.


Farsighted boy 15 Sep 2015, 20:14

Cactus jack,

Already have access to all of the above. Let me know. Im intrigued.

Cactus Jack 15 Sep 2015, 15:58

Farsighted Boy,

There is a simple test you can do to get a better idea which direction your Sphere prescription needs to go before you get an eye exam.

To do the test at home, you will need: +1.50 or +1.75 OTC Readers. A rule to measure about 20 to 30 inches or 50 to 70 cm. and a book or newspaper with regular sized print.

Let me know if you are interested and can get the above items.


Cactus Jack 15 Sep 2015, 15:46

Farsighted Boy,

Astigmatism is typically caused by uneven curvature of the front surface of the Cornea. Hyperopia is caused by a mismatch between the total PLUS power of your eye's lens system and the distance from the back of the Crystalline Lens to the Retina. The typical total Power is around +58 diopters and the distance is about 17 mm. Hyperopia is typically caused by the failure of the eyeball to grow quite as much as it should have when you were growing from childhood. The distance error is about 0.3 diopters per mm. Hyperopia means the image is focused behind the Retina and you need additional PLUS to move the image up to the Retina.

The Cornea is the strongest lens in the eye's lens system and the uneven curvature causes it to have more PLUS power in one direction (short axis) than it does in the other (long axis). Instead of being shaped like a section of a perfect sphere, the Cornea is shaped like a section from an American Football. The difference in optical power causes the Astigmatic eye to have two focal points. This effect causes distortion that is particularly noticeable when reading text. The lines that make up the letters (strokes) can be either in focus or blurry depending on the direction of the stroke and the direction of the long axis of the cylinder.

Astigmatism is actually independent of Hyperopia or Myopia, but it can cause the actual focus distance to change, depending on the lens power for strokes projected on the Retina and their direction. This focus distance/power uncertainty causes your focus control system to work extra hard trying to do something that is impossible. Focus at two different distances at the same time.

BTW, Astigmatism changes very slowly. Unfortunately, the Astigmatism part of an Eye Exam is the most subjective part. Most prescription changes in Cylinder and Axis occur because of limited skills and experience on the part of the patient, but it is not the fault of the patient. It is the fault of the Examiner who does not explain the purpose of that part of the exam. I suggest that you check out the Astigmatism thread on the Vision an Spex website. I wrote and posted a procedure for improving the accuracy of Cylinder and Axis part of the eye exam.


Farsighted Boy 15 Sep 2015, 10:47

1) Its decent

2)It felt like it for a few days but I adjusted.

3) it is a bit blurry now but thats why I'm going back in. I think I may actually need yet another increase


Any comments on the astigmatism post I had just before I answered your questions?

Cactus Jack 15 Sep 2015, 09:42

Farsighted Boy,

Thank you. That relaxation rate is pretty much what I expected for relatively low Latent Hyperopia. I would say that you are pretty close now to your actual Hyperopia. Maybe another +0.25 or +0.50, but not much more.

The reason I asked you where you live is to get an idea of how difficult or expensive it would be to order glasses on line. You can get some very high quality glasses from Zenni Optical for a little as US$6.95 depending on the frame and lens, plus shipping, but some countries nick you pretty badly with customs charges.

More questions:

1. How is your distance vision with your current glasses?

2. Was it a bit blurry when you got your current glasses?

3. Still a bit blurry?

I may suggest ordering an experimental pair of glasses from Zenni with a bit higher Sphere and the least expensive frame and lens you like. It is very easy. You have your prescription and all you need is your PD. It is very easy to measure yourself with a bathroom mirror and a ruler calibrated in mm or by asking a friend to help you. We can help you with your order.

You might also consider some prescription reading / computer glasses to help with the close work and speed the relaxation process. We can tell you how to do that also.

4. May I ask your major?


Farsighted Bou 15 Sep 2015, 09:02

1. 21


r :1.25 -.5 174

L:1.25 -.75 24

3. student, so basically endless close work

4. 2 years

5. Starting prescription from 3 tests ago:

10 months ago:

R: .5 -.25 (about the same axis)

L: .5 -.25

7months ago:

R: 1.00 -.5

L: 1.00 -.5

3 months ago :


6: suburbs

Farsighted Boy 15 Sep 2015, 08:44

Ill answer your questions when i get around to it later, but while we wait, can latent hyperopia effect the amount of astigmatism one perceives or would that still be rather steady? Right now im mildly astigmatic as well but im wondering if my ciliary muscle were to fully relax, if that would go up or down.

Cactus Jack 15 Sep 2015, 08:11

Farsighted Boy,

Latent Hyperopia can be very frustrating. It is caused by self correcting actual Hyperopia, internally, over a long period of time. Of the 3 common types of refractive errors, Myopia, Hyperopia, and Astigmatism, Hyperopia is the ONLY one you can correct internally using your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses, often without your being aware that you are doing it.

If you don;t have any Astigmatism, the only real problem with internally correcting your Hyperopia is that is uses up some of your Accommodation Range, which is a measure of your ability to focus close for reading or using a computer. If you correct your Hyperopia using external Contact Lenses or Glasses, that frees your internal Auto-Focus system (your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses) so that it can do its intended job, rather than correcting your Hyperopia.

Latent Hyperopia is usually caused by the Ciliary Muscles inability to fully relax because they have been contracted for so long. Imagine holding a weight at arms length for days or weeks. When you could finally drop the weight, your arm muscles would have trouble relaxing so you could lower your arm. That is what has happened to your Ciliary Muscles. Dilation can help them relax, but most Dilating agents used today are designed to wear off very rapidly (in hours). There are some very long acting dilating agents that take days to wear off. Most Eye Care Professionals (ECP) are reluctant to use them because patients will not tolerate being unable to focus close for that period of time.

I would like to ask a few questions that may help estimate how long it will take for your Ciliary Muscles to fully relax.

1. Your Age?

2. Your Current Full Prescription?

3. Your Occupation?

4. How long have you worn glasses?

5. Your last 3 prescriptions with approximate dates. Don't worry if the prescription is not exact.

6. Where do you live?



Farsighted Boy 14 Sep 2015, 22:00

You guys have any tips on relaxing you eyes for an eye exam? Im slightly farsighted and my precription goes up basically every 3 months. My doctor says its due to my eyes continuely relaxing throughout the months basically due to what you all call "latent hyperopia." Dilating drops are supposed to do the trick but they dont work, at least not fast enough or something. Id like to be able to get a prescription that will last an actual year or so to save some money. Its getting ridiculous.

Andrew 14 Sep 2015, 09:49

George, it probably depends on your chosen sport(s). Football should be fine, running likewise, although if you prefer sports which involve a smaller ball and / or greater distances, such as cricket, the contact lenses would be a very good idea.

Andrew 14 Sep 2015, 09:49

George, it probably depends on your chosen sport(s). Football should be fine, running likewise, although if you prefer sports which involve a smaller ball and / or greater distances, such as cricket, the contact lenses would be a very good idea.

Soundmanpt 13 Sep 2015, 16:49


Your prescription is such that it can actually be different form one person to another with the very same prescription as you. So you may may feel like you really do need your glasses in order to play to your best ability and someone else may feel like they don't need their glasses at all and are able to play with their normal ability.

You need vision correction so yes of course you would be able to see better with contacts than if your not wearing anything. Only you will be able to judge that. I don't want to tell you to go out and spend another hundred dollars or more so you can get contacts and then have you come back and tell me that you that you wished you hadn't spent the money because you are just fine without any correction for playing football. Here's what I suggest, try playing a game first just to see how well it goes. Most optical shops will give you about 3 - 6 months with your glasses and if you decide to get contacts they wave the eye exam cost and only vharge the fitting of the contacts. So if you paid say $50.00 fro your glasses eye exam you probably will only need to pay about $35.00 $40.00 for the fitting plus the cost of some contacts. So you may want to call where you got your eyes examined and find out how much time you have before you would need to pay for an eye exam again as well. So what I am saying should have some grace time to decide if you need to get contacts or not. Maybe that will help you?

Dave 13 Sep 2015, 12:22


You can legally drive with that prescription so you might want to see how much better your vision is with correction before you attempt contact lenses. That said, you will notice an increase in clarity, especially at night which might be useful if you are playing sport in the evening. It's up to you.

George 13 Sep 2015, 11:03

Ok thanks for that. Do you think I would benefit with contacts for sport with my prescription, or do you think I would be able to cope with out?

Soundmanpt 13 Sep 2015, 10:37


What you heard is somewhat correct. The more you wear your glasses the more your going to notice when your not wearing them.

George 13 Sep 2015, 08:23

Thanks for the response. I was told I only really needed them for driving and distances like seeing writing on a tv screen, the prescription in -0.75 right and left -1.00.

I've heard that if you wear glasses yours eyes become accustomed to them and notice your vision being worse, so not sure if this would happen.

Soundmanpt 13 Sep 2015, 08:17


Look at it this way, You didn't just overnight become shortsighted so I assume you have managed playing football so far without glasses so I would think you should still be able to see well enough to continue playing without glasses. Without knowing your prescription it is hard to say for sure of course. But if you are going to be wearing your glasses full time your eyes will adjust to seeing with your glasses and you may find seeing without them on the blurry or fuzzy side. Your the only one that can determine if you need them or not. If you begin to feel like you need them I would suggest going for a fitting and maybe buying some throw away dailies just for playing sports.

Soundmanpt 13 Sep 2015, 08:08


Honestly I really don't think wearing contacts instead of just upgrading your glasses is the reason you now feel that you need full time correction. Your eyes changed from when you got your first glasses. That's why when you went back a year later you needed a stronger prescription. Your eyes change quite a bit in that years time. By the time you went in to get your eyes examined after that first year even with your glasses on your vision had to be rather blurry. So even if you had only gotten new glasses you may have tried to only wear them like you were wearing your first glasses but I think you would have yourself wearing your glasses more and more each day and rather quickly decided that without your glasses everything would be to blurry for you. In other words at -1.25 you can still pretty much get away with only wearing your glasses when you want to. But at -2.25 your eyesight is considerably worse and seeing more than a few feet is about as good as you can hope for without glasses or contacts.

If you had come in here last year when you first got your -1.25 glasses and asked if your vision would get worse or not I would have told you then that in 12 months you would need an increase in your glasses. My best guess would have been that your 2nd glasses would probably be in the area of -1.75 or -2.00 so I would have been close, just slightly off. And just as I said before, I really doubt that your going to need more than maybe a small increase over the next year or two and then your eyes should be stable from ten on. If you decide that you don't like wearing glasses or contacts and want to be able to see perfect again without correction you can always get lasik and you will be back just like you were before you started wearing glasses. But with a prescription like you have glasses can really be attractive and many young ladies now are even wearing fake glasses just because glasses have become so popular and now as mucha fashion accessory as being functional to see with.

George 13 Sep 2015, 07:39

Hi I just got prescribed my first glasses yesterday, I'm slightly shortsighted. I play abit of sport and was seeing if I would need them for playing football and other sports. Or would I be able to cope ok without.

Puffin 12 Sep 2015, 13:43

Or it's a question of how much annoying fuzzyness and squinting can the prospective adult wearer endure? Do you want to spend time and effort getting closer to things in order to read them? Or - wear the glasses and spend the time thus regained doing something else?

It kind of depends on what you want to do with your vision.

But it's usually recommended that about -2 dioptres is enough for full time wear. Some people hold out somewhat longer than that to -3 and beyond. Their choice.

Puffin 12 Sep 2015, 13:34


When you are a child and you need vision correction, it's more important that you get such correction and wear it when necessary in order to prevent or control problems later in life. It's basically because the aim is to prevent problems in later life. During growth, the visual system does tend to react to uncorrected vision in not entirely predictable ways.

Broadly speaking once you're an adult the chances of problems arising (apart from not being able to see very well) from not wearing glasses are quite small in comparison. The advice you will get at 22 years old will only be advice, not firm recommendations enforced by concerned parents.

So - wear them if you think it helps. The visual threshold is not one of concern for the future, it's more one of useful vision. What you want to see determines that.

Rachel  12 Sep 2015, 12:37

When i first got glasses i was surprised how much clearer it was with them but wasn't wearing them all time. I got contacts -2.00 and when I take them out i need glasses all the time now. If i didn't get contacts I don't think I would be wearing glasses all the time? There must be a prescription when you have no choice to wear glasses all the time and I'm over it?

Soundmanpt 11 Sep 2015, 15:53


You have done nothing wrong. You got glasses for driving and probably wore them mainly fro driving and maybe even for other things that you felt like you could see better with your glasses on. That is perfectly normal. And even only wearing your glasses when you needed them your eyes have gotten slightly worse, not by anything you did or didn't do. Your glasses aren't going to make or stop your vision from getting worse but only help you to see when you have them on. When you went to wearing contacts your prescription had reached the point where you pretty much needed to be wearing your glasses (or contacts) full time anyway. Everyone is different but most people start keeping their glasses on when they reach -1.75. Consider yourself lucky that you didn't need glasses much sooner in life. If you had started wearing glasses say about when you started high school, by now your prescription would be considerably stronger. So made it through high school without ever wearing glasses which you should be quite happy about. And even better because even though you have had an increase which would be expected once you start wearing glasses being 22 chances are your eyes aren't likely to change much more. So your glasses won't ever be even close to strong and they should look very nice as well. Or of course you can continue wearing contacts if you prefer them to glasses. Just remember to not over wear them and give your eyes a break from them as often as possible.

Rachel  11 Sep 2015, 14:08

My first glasses are -1.25 and new glasses are -2.25. In a year has got a lot worse. Do you think i shouldn't be wearing glasses all the time? Is a low prescription but I can't see without them now. Oh great i was told -3.00 is common and aways need glases or contacts all the time. Is strange that I'm always going to have to wear them now.

Soundmanpt 11 Sep 2015, 10:23


When your wife wasn't able to read the small print on the medicine bottle and you could read it without any problem your suggestion that she may need glasses really hit home with her. It had to make sense that if you could read it without any problem and she couldn't then she probably figured that she in fact needed glasses. So she didn't put it off and must have called right away for an eye appointment. I'm sure she wasn't at all surprised to find that she needed glasses. Her prescription is a pretty weak one but still enough to sharpen small print up for her. You didn't mention either one of your ages but it is very common when we start to approach the 40's small print starts to get harder to read. But it can happen even to teenagers as well. Now just because when you tried her glasses on it made small print bigger and easier to read doesn't mean that you need glasses. Her glasses are really just 2 pieces of magnifying glass in a frame. And nearly everyone can see things better with a magnifying glass. But that being said doesn't mean that you don't maybe need glasses either. It sounds like it may have been a long while since you last had an eye exam so your probably well over due. Everyone should have an eye exam every 2 years or so.

Seymour 11 Sep 2015, 07:25

My wife couldn't the read fine print on a medicine bottle and asked me to help her. I could read it with no problem, which surprised her. I joked that maybe she needs glasses. Neither one of us wears glasses. She surprised me tonight when she came home wearing glasses...she went for an exam, and while her distance vision is ok, she was prescribed +1.25 glasses for close. She went for the medicine bottle, and was amazed that she could read it easily. Although I could read the tiny print on the bottle without, she had me try on her new glasses. They nicely magnified the small print and made the print much bolder. When I told her that she said it did the same for her, and suggested I go for an exam. I don't think I need glasses..I can see ok. Is there an easy way without the expense of an exam to convince her my vision is ok?

Soundmanpt 09 Sep 2015, 09:47


So last year when you got your first glasses I would assume that your prescription was around -1.25 ( it could have been -1.00 or -1.50) Not very strong but enough that you would need them for driving. But I think during the year you also found that thye helped you with seeing other things such as maybe at the movies, or sporting events and concerts. But you probably only wore your glasses when you felt like you needed them? This year you decided to get contacts and not surprising your prescription had changed to -2.00 ( at least in one eye) The thing is contacts are most often put on first thing in the morning and not removed until bedtime. So really it is exactly the same as wearing glasses full time. So just like if you were wearing your glasses full time your eyes are going to adjust to seeing everything through correction either with glasses or contacts. Just like "Cactus Jack" said wearing the contacts (or glasses) didn't make your eyesight get worse, your eyes have just gotten used to seeing with correction. But also remember your prescription went up from when you got your first glasses which is to be expected after you get your first glasses. it has to do with your eyes adjusting to seeing with a prescription for the first time. And like CJ said your 22 now so its possible that your eyes will change slightly over the next couple of years but not very much and sometime before you reach your mid twenties your eyes should stop changing. I would not expect that your eyes would get over -3.00 if even that much.

But "Likelenses" is correct in suggesting that now that you know your not able to see very well without correction anymore you really need to be more prepared. Like he said you never know what might happen to a contact or your glasses. So here are a few things to do. Carry an extra pair of contacts with you even if your wearing your glasses. Or if your wearing contacts have your glasses in your glove box of your car just in case. but if your -2.00 you really can't see well enough to drive even a couple blocks without either your glasses or contacts.

Cactus Jack 08 Sep 2015, 21:17


At 22 your prescription may increase a little bit from here, but not by very much. There are two factors that seem to control myopia. The most important and powerful one is your Genes, which you can't really control. The next most important factor is your visual environment. Typically, University students visual environment typically involves lots of reading and close work which is also difficult to control. The important thing to know is that most people's vision stabilizes by their mid 20s. However, there is another phenomenon, you will likely experience, that makes you think your glasses or contacts made your vision worse.

Vision actually occurs in the brain. Your eyes are merely biological cameras. Your brain is capable of some incredible image processing. It can clarify blurry images if it knows what something is supposed to look like and the image is not so blurry that your brain can't identify what it is. Your brain can also generate images with your eyes closed. Ever had a dream?

When you wear glasses or contacts, they correct the blurry images, optically and that relieves the brain of the energy intensive task of clarifying what you "see". Think of glasses like a labor saving tools for your brain. It does not take long for your brain to discover that the extra work is not necessary, when you wear your glasses or contacts. It stops trying to correct the images your eyes provide, because no correction is needed. That causes you to think that your glasses have made your vision worse when you take off your glasses. You can force your brain to go back to work by not wearing correction for a few days or weeks, but you probably won't like the experience. Once your brain has discovered the benefits of having really good images to work with, it will usually complain mightily if you give it blurry images again. That typically isn't pleasant. Aspirin, anyone?


Rachel 08 Sep 2015, 16:37

I'm 22 I don't know but i though I was going to need glasses for driving. Should I expect my eyes to get a lot worse? Once you start becoming shortsighted it carries on getting worse? I thought glasses were to stop you getting blinder.

Likelenses 08 Sep 2015, 15:42


You need to always carry a back up pair of glasses,when your in contacts.

Also not a bad idea to have two pair of glasses at all times.You never know when they may get broken,or a lense pop out.

What was the first prescription a year ago,and what is your present age?

Rachel  08 Sep 2015, 15:14

I only got glasses last year for the first time for driving then I got contact lenses this year -2.00 rx that I wear all the time now. I was out the other night and I lost a lens i couldn't see for the rest of the night. I cant believe how fast my eyes have gone shortsighted. I tried wearing the one lens but got a headache so took the other lens out then couldn't see after only 1 meter i really need my glasses and contacts all the time in this low prescription?

TAILGUNNER 01 Sep 2015, 09:39

Not sure whether this is the correct thread - please advise if I'm off course.

I have a particular vision issue and would appreciate comments from any you guys with similar experience or general thoughts.

I have long term Hyperopia/astigmatism and a small amount of Nystagmus that does not affect vision. My glasses are c. +4 and I have clear vision with them but often a certain amount of strain and recently problems with double vision at times.

My optometrist advised a trial of Prisms for this, but after a few months I don't feel confident this is helping.

As I have +6 glasses for close work I decided to try wearing these on an everyday basis in situations where the resultant blurring was not a problem and felt this was helping the double vision, but not quite there. For some reason I ordered a +8 pair on the internet and immediately I tried them my eyes felt really comfortable and the double vision seemed to disappear. Snag is, of course, the blurring is just too much of a handicap on any practical long term basis. I decided to see the Optometrist about this. She conceded that I looked comfortable in a stronger prescription, nystagmus included, but quite reasonably said she could not prescribe glasses that worsened my vision where there was no likelihood of my eyes adjusting to them. So is sort of stale mate.

Odd coincidence - when I was at school my parents took me for a sight test with a rather eccentric practitioner who used a piece of equipment I don't recall seeing since.

From this he reckoned that my eyes would accept, and maybe be happy in a prescription about twice as strong as the conventional test indicated, but if so I would be dependent on it indefinitely. This did not seem particularly good news to me at the time and my Mother was totally specs averse so the bare minimum to achieve clear vision was prescribed.

Tom1 20 Aug 2015, 14:21

As you may remember I'm -3 and -5 with slight astigmatism in the "good" eye, too. I'm 44 and despite some troubles sometime when I sudden move from far to close to focus, the eye doctor recently told me I don't need reading glasses, yet.

Despite this I tried a +1.5 pair on top of my needed minus glasses and noticed writing was sharper and larger, much easier to read with less struggle. Not completely unexpected since I know I'm close to presbyopia. However, I was astonished when I looked around and out of the window! Objects were crystal clear all around the room even several metres away from me and also very distant things were only slightly blurred. I tried to focus on distant details and put reading glasses on and off several times to notice the difference was very small and my vision remained very clear even with the plus glasses on. I'm sure the blurriness was much less than that of a nearsighted person with -1.5. I was really shocked and I'm still wondering how this is possible. Do nearsighted people need lower correction even for distant vision (and not just for close) with the onset of presbyopia?

Puffin 19 Aug 2015, 08:13

I reckon I'll leave him to sort the problem out himself, being as he's not there every day.

Perhaps he's doing some arm-elongating exercises at home and they're not working yet?

Cactus Jack 18 Aug 2015, 07:57


Presbyopia is very loosely related to age. There can be other factors such as Myopia or Hyperopia and if a person wears distance vision correction.

Curiously, Minus glasses tend to act like Wide Angle Photographic Lenses which characteristically have a very broad Depth of Field (range of useful focus). I have worn trifocals for many years, before and after cataract surgery, When I did GOC with -14 glasses, I discovered that I could function quite well with single vision glasses at all distances. Not quite as well in mid and close distances as with the trifocals, but acceptably well.

Plus glasses tend to act like telephoto lenses and have a narrow Depth of Field.

Your associate could also be Hyperopic. Many people are, without realizing our understanding it. They use up a lot of their available accommodation range compensating for their far-sightedness which leaves very little available to focusing close. Astigmatism could also play a role in messing up the ability to read small text, but those are not the only potential causes of vision problems. Some are much more serious and harder to correct than simple refractive errors.

It is very hard to broach the subject of vision problems even with people you know very well, much less with casual acquaintances. You might be able to approach the subject obliquely with a question like, "How long have you been having trouble reading very small text?" then work toward the suggestion that an eye exam might be worth investigating to make sure it is not a really serious problem. Vanity and the fear of growing older can often be an issue with women, but it can also be an issue with men.

It amazes me that so many people think that other people don't notice that they are having vision problems, but would notice glasses. It is tough, but in the long run, they will thank you for helping them solve the problem.


Puffin 18 Aug 2015, 06:10

There's been an irritating (and awkward) situation developing at work wherein one of my co-workers is asking me to read small print nearly every day.

Now you might think that to be nothing much out of the ordinary with advancing age - but he's 6-8 years younger than me, I can read small print close up, he can't. I'm late 40's and I know I have a lot of accommodation for my age, but this is getting silly, for the both of us. Perhaps I need to broach the subject?

Also I keep seeing people my age and younger reaching for reading glasses and sit wondering "where's my presbyopia?" It's not that I want it, I just don't want to look out of place. Perhaps it's coming, like Christmas. The Optician just shrugged and told me to enjoy it while it lasts.

I can read text messages on my phone 15cm away, not as good as Nadine on the "new glasses" thread, but then I'm twice as old as her.

Soundmanpt 15 Aug 2015, 08:26


Most people never really know when there is changes in their vision because the change is often very slight over time and they have have nothing to compare their vision to. That is until that person tries on a friends glasses or in your case a co workers and suddenly find that their vision isn't quite as good as as maybe should be. This is exactly what you found, the one co workers glasses were much too strong for your eyes because your eyes didn't need or want that much correction, but the other co workers glasses as it turned out were much closer to a prescription that fits your eyes nearly perfectly if not perfect. I'm pretty sure you must have health insurance where you work and that should also include vision as well. With insurance you can get your eyes examined for anywhere from zero cost to maybe a $15.00 co pay. Everyone even if they feel like their eyesight is still fine should get their eyes examined at least every 2 -3 years not just to see if they need glasses but for other reasons such as glaucoma which can lead to blindness.

If the co worker with the glasses that you were able to see so well with has her previous glasses which she likely still has somewhere in drawer at home I am sure she wouldn't have any problem letting you borrow them for a while. Like most, once she got her current glasses her previous ones soon become too weak to of much good except in an emergence maybe. Wearing her glasses in case your wondering won't do any harm to your eyesight, but I think you would be very surprised at how well you will be able to see with them on. I know your only wanting to try them for the fun of it around your house. but you should probably drive a few miles away from your area where no one knows you and where them out at dinner or to a club. You clearly seem to be intrigued by glasses. You never know after borrowing your co workers you very well might decide that you want to start wearing glasses yourself.

You clearly seem to be intrigued by glasses

Eline 14 Aug 2015, 14:23

Thank you all for your unexpected but most welcome replies to my post.

I know better understand the differences I noticed when trying on different pairs of glasses.

I don't think I will have my eyes checked any time soon as I can still see anything I need to see really well. Still, I liked the idea of asking my coworker if I could borrow some older pair of hers, just for the fun of walking around in them when at home, but not sure what she would think of it....

Likelenses 12 Aug 2015, 20:45


Here is an online vision test that you want to try.

Likelenses 12 Aug 2015, 14:16


Talking about Cokebottles,and headlights,reminded me of something I had not thought about for years.

At one point,when my Rx was about -7 or so,with CR-39 lenses,I was cleaning them when the thought occurred to me,washing these lenses feels exactly like washing a thick spoon.

Likelenses 12 Aug 2015, 14:05


I agree with Soundmanpt,that you perhaps now need glasses.

Seeing that you work in an office,I assume that you spend a fair amount of time doing close work,and on a computer.

Close work can cause the beginning of nearsightedness.

If you had been doing a lot of close work in the morning prior to lunch time,when you put those -1.50 glasses on your eyes were very grateful.

Many people discover that they are nearsighted when they try on someone elses glasses.

When was your last eye exam. and what is your age? Also how long have you been at this job,and what kind of close work is involved?And lastly,would you be upset to have to wear glasses?

Soundmanpt 12 Aug 2015, 12:51


By the way I forgot to ask and you didn't say but did you manage to get a look at yourself wearing your co workers glasses. If you didn't have a mirror something even better to do these days is snap a picture with your phone. Did you like how you looked wearing either of their glasses?

Soundmanpt 12 Aug 2015, 12:15


Really! Well for what she is asking the +3.50 should be close enough and with them being rare she could spend a way more time looking for them. I have never seen them anywhere around where I live.

But I am going to start just for the fun of it more closely.

Weirdeyes 12 Aug 2015, 12:08


I have seen +4.00 reading glasses. They're just rare.

Soundmanpt 12 Aug 2015, 11:58


Well you had an interesting lunch to say the least. When you said that your co workers were insisting that you try on the co worker with the new glasses which the other co worker had already tried on and found them too strong for her and she also wears glasses I had a pretty good idea that since you don't wear glasses they would feel extremely strong for your eyes, which they were. I was pretty sure when you said that the the other co worker would then offer you her glasses knowing that her glasses were quite a bit weaker. I think you were somewhat surprised by how well you were able to see with her glasses on. That little swirl effect you noticed is very common when you first put on glasses even ones prescribed to you. If you had kept them on for a while that would have gone away. But of course your co worker needed her glasses back.

What you found by trying your co workers glasses on is that -4.00 glasses is much too strong for your eyes to tolerate as I am sure everything was quite blurry with them on. But when you tried on your co workers glasses that are only -1.50 your eyes were far more able to tolerate them and actually see pretty well with them on. My guess is that those glasses are probably the 2nd prescription that your co worker got. But being able to tolerate her glasses is one thing but they really should have been on the strong side for your eyes as well. If your own vision is still perfect anything more than -.75 should have felt too strong for your eyes. My point is that if you could see that good with her glasses chances are you probably need to get your eyes examined pretty soon because you probably need glasses. If her -1.50 glasses seemed that good you probably need glasses in the -1.00 to -1.25 range. If your really curious and that co worker is a good friend you should ask her if she happens to have a previous pair of glasses at home that you could try and maybe borrow. If she has a previous pair they should be slightly weaker than the ones shes wearing now and maybe about perfect for your eyes. If she does and you find that after a week of wearing them they seem really good then you know you need an eye exam for sure.

Oh and yes the other co worker that wasn't with you that has -7.00 glasses would be so strong I doubt you could see even a few inches in front of you with them. So yes the stronger the prescription the more difference they make on your eyes. And yes your co worker with the -4.00 glasses sees a good bit like you did when you had her glasses on when she doesn't have her glasses on. To get a pretty good idea of exactly how either of them see without their glasses you only need to go to where they sell over the counter readers and first find the ones marked +3.50 (they don't have +4.00 in over the counter glasses) and try them on and try looking at things both close up and in the distance and remember her glasses are slightly stronger than those readers are. Then find the ones marked +1.50 and try them on. that is exactly what your co worker sees without her glasses. Now since they are weaker you should be able to see close pretty well with them but distance should be somewhat blurry for you.

Hope that helped.

GreginColo 12 Aug 2015, 11:47

There are likely others who can explain it better, but in general, the higher the minus number the more correction the glasses provide to the user, most especially for distance vision in the case of a minus Rx. You could see better with the lower powered correction because you don't normally wear glasses, and hence the lower power provided you the least amount of over-correction. Your -1.5 friend could pretty much function without her glasses for many things, even though the distance would have some blur. The -7 co-worker would likely be totally dependent upon vision correction, and likewise also the -4, just to a little lesser degree. The - 7 coworker could wear both the -4 and the -1.5 glasses on top of one another and still not be fully corrected, but would see about like the -1.5 gal does without her glasses. As I said, others can probably explain better, but hope this helps a bit anyway.

Eline 12 Aug 2015, 11:05

I found this website while searching for more information about eyesight.

Today I had lunch with two friends from work, and a one of them was complimented by the other for her new glasses. i must say she has nice looking spectacles. She offered my other friend, who is also a glasses wearer, to try them on, which she did. She kept them on for about 30 seconds, but said they were a bit too strong for her, took them off and put on her own glasses again. They then both said that I would look extremely well with glasses also, as they thought my colleague's new pair would fit my face and hair really well.

The insisted that I also try them, which I first politely refused, but as they insisted I obliged. I was very surprised with how little I could see through them, whih I used as a reason to quickly take them off again and hand them back. Upon which my other colleague said I should try hers and would notice the difference as her glasses were weaker. I could not really say no, but as a surprise With her glasses I could actually see extremely well and sharp, though I felt somewhat like standing on a ship also as the things around "moved" a little when I turned my head. They explained my that the first glasses were minus 4 while the second only minus 1,5.

I now wonder, how is this that the difference for me between both pairs is so big? And does my friend with the stronger glasses see without glasses as poorly as I did when I had her glasses on? Also, my friends both mentioned that anothr girl at our company is minus 7, so would I see anything at all if trying on her glasses?

fav guest 12 Aug 2015, 05:06

Hi Ellen

Well we were all Ms or Ms cokebottles...except when I was in school, they mandated "safetyglass" for kids... Well with my rx in elementary almost approaching double digits-imagine how thick lol !

Gave you address on lenschat a while ago when you were thinking of crossing the pond.

have a great day

fav guest 12 Aug 2015, 05:06

Hi Ellen

Well we were all Ms or Ms cokebottles...except when I was in school, they mandated "safetyglass" for kids... Well with my rx in elementary almost approaching double digits-imagine how thick lol !

Gave you address on lenschat a while ago when you were thinking of crossing the pond.

have a great day

Likelenses 11 Aug 2015, 21:40


My friends called mine headlights.

Ellen 11 Aug 2015, 14:33

I'm not romantically involved with anyone, least of all my happily married friend. And no she doesn't wear glasses, she always had infuriatingly perfect eyesight all through university, while I rejoiced in the nickname of Ms Cokebottles among my group of friends.

I don't have anyone's email address off this site either.

fav guest 10 Aug 2015, 17:14

Hi Ellen,

I'm glad you have someone to take care of you! Romantically too lol. Is she rx in your neighborhood?

I just tore an Achilles tendon and am in a boot for a few weeks anyway. What is your recovery time like?? Without disclosing it you still have my email??

Well have to wash it out now, phew.



NJ 10 Aug 2015, 16:19

Not doubting any myope's experience on this, just saying that given the optics of the cornea, it's surprising. The cornea has a refractive index of about 1.38 and the aqueous humor, which it borders internally, is about 1.34. Such a small difference, combined with the shape of the cornea border with the aqueous humor, gives it a small but slightly negative lens power.

Some years ago I developed a simple technology to measure changes in the refractive index of the aqueous humor. The original intent was to look at small changes as a result of differing glucose concentrations (think glucose measurement for diabetics). Well, it turns out that the correlation between glucose concentrations in the aqueous humor and in blood plasma is not so great, so this particular application did not work. However, I managed to license a variation of the technology to a big player in the refractive surgery field. It was a fun project for an OO to work on!

Ellen 10 Aug 2015, 14:18

I'd have to be certifiable to go diving! I'm terrified of deep water.

I'm feeling a lot better now thanks, I've had a friend staying with me for the last couple of weeks helping me out with stuff. She's been wonderful, especially as I'm a terrible patient.

fav guest 10 Aug 2015, 07:14

Hi Ellen,

Well, I'd be with uou and I;m certified..OR..we just ride around the Keys in the boat lol. (relax, I always have extra glasses incase of a loss incident !

Doesn't have to be Lobster season for that.

I actually liked swimming because I didn't have to see :)

How are you feeling?

Ellen 10 Aug 2015, 01:50

The below should of course have read "swimming lessons". Have no idea what happened there.

Ellen 10 Aug 2015, 01:48

Haha, I'm not good with water I'm afraid Likelenses. Scarred by school swimming lenses when I was the blind kid who hadn't a clue what was going on, I think.

Likelenses 09 Aug 2015, 21:06


Let's go diving with out our glasses on.

Beachin' 09 Aug 2015, 18:34

A friend of mine posted this on facebook and I thought it would share. It's about a bionic lens that gives people 60/20 vision that may be available in the next few years.

"Science Just Invented a Simple, Painless Way to Get Superhuman Vision."

Crystal Veil 09 Aug 2015, 14:45


my life partner Nel wears glasses with a prescription of minus twelve and she has exactly the same experience you described. Nel has no 20/20 vision under water but somewhere halfway or even a bit better.

Ellen 09 Aug 2015, 13:01

A lens's power is derived from two surfaces, it's front and rear. The front provides some of the power, the rear the rest. When an eye is open and viewing things in water, only the front surface's ability to refract is altered. The rear surface is as it was with its boundary onto the aqueous humour.

Anyway I could go into the science of it all day, the fact is as someone who is severely short-sighted, I know from experience that I see better when I open my eyes under water than I can ever see without my glasses in air.

 06 Aug 2015, 20:59

Interesting discussion on underwater vision.

There is a study about people in Southeast Asia who adjusted from childhood to see little bit better than other in water by using accommodation to compensate change of refraction.

NJ 06 Aug 2015, 18:01

Hmmm...Assuming that the corneal refractive power is about 40D in air, then you'd have to have myopia greater than half of that in order for your vision to be better underwater than in air. For example, with a -11.50D Rx, your refractive error underwater is about 28.5D, but with -25D your refractive error is ~15D, so in the latter case your vision would be better underwater than above water.

fav guest 06 Aug 2015, 14:14

sorry for triple copy

fav guest 06 Aug 2015, 14:13

Hi Ellen,

You are absolutely right... I experienced that many times with only -11.50, Now, after cataract surg and I'm -4.75,I don't see well underwater.

SO, it's Lobster season in the Fla Keys, want to come and go diving :)


fav guest 06 Aug 2015, 14:13

Hi Ellen,

You are absolutely right... I experienced that many times with only -11.50, Now, after cataract surg and I'm -4.75,I don't see well underwater.

SO, it's Lobster season in the Fla Keys, want to come and go diving :)


fav guest 06 Aug 2015, 14:13

Hi Ellen,

You are absolutely right... I experienced that many times with only -11.50, Now, after cataract surg and I'm -4.75,I don't see well underwater.

SO, it's Lobster season in the Fla Keys, want to come and go diving :)


Ellen 06 Aug 2015, 12:02

Refraction occurs when light passes through the boundary between one medium and another according to Snell's Law. In the case of the eye the boundary is between air and the stuff that the cornea is made from. The greater the difference in refractive index of the two materials the greater the refraction (bending) of the light. Air has a much lower refractive index than the cornea and so the refraction is quite pronounced, giving the cornea a high power in lens terms. Water, being a much denser material than air has a higher refractive index, very similar to that of the cornea (which has a high water content) and so if the eye is immersed in water the cornea's effective power is much diminished as the refraction is much less. This essentially results in a highly long sighted eye. The human eye evolved in air and is hence designed to focus perfectly in air. If we had evolved in water our corneas would be much less curved to account for the similarity in the refractive indices of the water and the cornea. I have often wandered how the eyes of semi-aquatic creatures such as seals, which need to have sharp vision in both air and water, work. Presumably there is some compromise at work there.

As an interesting observation, my severely myopic eyes see far more clearly underwater than they do above it.

NJ 06 Aug 2015, 08:55

Motard, CLs under water don't do anything for the same reason the cornea loses it's focusing power. The indices of refraction are the same (or very close) for water, the contact lens and the cornea. Because of this there is virtually no refraction in any case. A -40 myope would actually see reasonably well under water, because he'd be more or less fully corrected.

Some years ago I was teaching a myopic friend how to kayak, starting with the eskimo roll. When it took him a while to learn, he argued that his bad eyesight was hindering him. He was probably -5 or so. I told him that, actually, he saw better underwater than someone with perfect eyesight. He didn't like the argument, though. And in any case, learning the eskimo roll is more feel than visual.

glassesforeveryone 06 Aug 2015, 06:09

Hi Motard, that's amazing. I wrote a story 'Mermaid Eyes' (it's on Vision-and-Spex) which was basically about that, but I didn't know that it was an actual thing! I just made it up.

I'd love to hear more.

motard 06 Aug 2015, 00:34

OK interesting thought here. So the different parts of the eye have different powers and somewhere along they way I read the cornea has some +42 of power . And when eyes open under water (without goggles) you be come hyperope as you lose that 42 d of power. Experiment time: given a perfect 0.00 eye under water would there be a + power contact lens that would allow you to see under water granted with it in you wouldn't see anything above water.


specsialist 03 Aug 2015, 15:01

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Please help me by keeping a watch on my ebay listings, just search 'specsialist'.

I have a website at where I have an image archive of all of the glasses I have ever sold - including some really nice ones! I can also be contacted through the website.

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ric 30 Jul 2015, 01:03

It thats happened to me many times. Since i ve got contact lenses first time, i wore them full time for years, just wearing glasses at home. Having to change my prescription often, most of the times i just change my contact lenses, having glasses totally out of date.

Beachin' 29 Jul 2015, 11:38

Nina - Maybe your friend has really gawky and out of date frames. I have a few friends who wear contacts every day and never wear glasses out of the house that have had the same frames for 6 - 8 years. One even has tape on hers right now which is perfectly fine around the house but not ideal for going in public.

I remember one of the guys I dated in college always wore contacts and got pink eye and has to wear his really out of date glasses to class. Poor guy, not only was his eye irritated and red he was obviously uncomfortable wearing his middle-schoolesk glasses in public.

ric 29 Jul 2015, 01:11

Nina, is pretty usual, for me was the reason to get contact lenses.

ric 29 Jul 2015, 01:11

Nina, is pretty usual, for me was the reason to get contact lenses.

ric 29 Jul 2015, 01:11

Nina, is pretty usual, for me was the reason to get contact lenses.

ric 29 Jul 2015, 01:11

Nina, is pretty usual, for me was the reason to get contact lenses.

Nina 25 Jul 2015, 10:47

I arranged to meet my friend in town before her eye exam but she canceled seeing me because she was wearing her glasses to the opticians. Can't believe people are still shy to wear there glasses out in public. We talk about about are vision as we area both shortsighted. I'm with -5.00 she's about -4.00 but won't wear glasses out it doesn't bother me. There must be a lot of people who try to hide being shortsighted?

John S 24 Jul 2015, 19:03

Your hearing loss is a slightly less than mine, but follows the same curve. Mine is 90 to 100 db down at 8000.

Open fit domes are great for high frequency losses, but do not do well with low frequency losses. The low frequency sounds tend to bounce off the eardrum and back out of your ear. At 30db, you are on the edge of that occurring.

The good thing about open domes are, they do not give you a feeling of occlusion. (A stopped up sensation)

If you would like to continue this discussion, please go to the Hearing Aid section on


Cactus Jack 24 Jul 2015, 18:48

New Problem,

I am 77 now. My strabismus started developing in my mid to late 40s. My hearing loss is not quite as severe as yours. I got tried in the canal hearing aids about 15 years ago, but they did not transmit the low frequencies and over emphasized the highs. I got BTE open fit hearing aids about 10 years ago because I could not understand people who talked very softly and often misunderstood what people were saying. I don't know where you live, but we have a TV program in the US called "Wheel of Fortune" and Vanna White kept turing the different letters than the contestants called. Hearing aids can't replace natural hearing. Open fit is pretty good, but far from perfect. Expect to have some problems figuring out where sounds are coming from.


New Problem 24 Jul 2015, 09:20

Well this seems to make sense. My loss is 30 db at 250 hz and 500 hz, 40 db at 1000 hz, 50 db at 2000 hz, 80 at 4000 and 70 at 8000. It is a bit worse in the left ear.

I did get exposed to a lot of noise in the past. I actually still do. I am getting open fit hearing aids. When did your strabismus and hearing loss develop?

Cactus Jack 23 Jul 2015, 19:14

New Problem,

I would tend to consider the two problems as unrelated, until proven otherwise. Often, strabismus, deafness and other sensory issues are the result of development issues during gestation. Issues that develop later in life have other causes.

Hearing loss these days is often related to exposure to very loud music or loud noise. Disease can often cause hearing loss. I am a bit over twice your age and I quite a bit of loss above 2000 Hz. My loss was likely caused by flying airplanes before we fully understood the importance of wearing hearing protection.

I don't know if you are familiar with how your hearing works, but you have a structure inside each ear called the Cochlea. Inside the Cochlea are thousands of very small hairs that are individually sensitive to a particular frequency of sound. Loud sounds can damage or break these hairs causing the inability to detect the frequency associated with that hair. Unfortunately, the hairs will never grow back after they are damaged.

My experience with hearing aids has been that two aids are better than one and that Behind the ear hearing aids, with what is called Open Fit, is better than in-the-ear aids. The reason is that Open Fit allows the sounds that you CAN hear to go around the earpiece and in my case, the hearing aids are programmed to do nothing below about 2000 Hz. and then amplify the sounds above 2000 Hz to about 6000 Hz. Not as good as natural hearing, but much better than having to run all the audio through a hearing aid that has little or no response below about 200 to 250 Hz. There is a lot of good things to hear in that region. If you are musically inclined, Middle C on a piano is 256 Hz. and you want to hear as much as possible below that as naturally as possible.

Does any of this seem to be related to your hearing loss?


Likelenses 23 Jul 2015, 18:48

New Problem

You are in the age group,that when you were younger,and perhaps even now,listened to loud music blasting in the car,and through headsets.

Many people your age are now paying the price for that with severe hearing loss.

New Problem 23 Jul 2015, 16:29

I am 35. worn prisms for about 15 years now.

I had extensive tests with neurologist before and everything seems to be in order.

Do you find this situation common?

Cactus Jack 23 Jul 2015, 16:21

New Problem,

The sensory system is extremely complex and the different senses reside in different areas of the brain. Many times, different sensory impairments occur together, but one does not necessarily cause the other, though one brain injury can cause multiple problems. In fact, sometimes severe visual impairment causes the auditory system to develop much more extensively than normal.

There has been ground breaking work in understanding how the brain adapts to varying conditions, even in a person's advancing years. That is why injuries can be overcome after a stroke or traumatic injury.

You might consider seeing a Neurological specialist to help track down the causes.

High frequency loses are fairly common with age, particularly if a person has been exposed to very loud noise.

May I ask your age?


New Problem 23 Jul 2015, 15:52

Does anyone know, could there be a link between strabismus and hearing loss. For me it seems that the two would have no connection at all but I found a lot of people with strabismus posting about their hearing loss.

Anyway I have severe strabismus (esotropia) and had it for a while. Prism prescription never seems to stop to increase. However, few days ago, after probably too long time procrastinating, I had a hearing exam and was diagnosed with moderate to severe hearing loss. Actually mild in low frequencies and severe in high. I could probably post how the entire audiogram looks like. I am being fitted with two aids.

So again back to the question, do you think those two things are unrelated or could there be some connection?

hey 19 Jul 2015, 22:51

I'm looking to get new glasses. I'd like to know how accurate this is if someone wants to test it out.

Soundmanpt 19 Jul 2015, 11:16


No! That's the first I saw of this site. I really wouldn't want to buy glasses and certainly never contacts based on their testing. If you call around I think you will find actual optical offices that you can get a real accurate eye exam for about that same price. I have several in my area that I have set up to do eye exams for patients I send. The price for a glasses rx is $35.00 and for glasses and contacts is $70.00. And many places even advertise their eye exam price as being $50.00.

Are you thinking that you may need glasses or jsut curious about that site?

hey 19 Jul 2015, 10:05

does anyone know anything about this and how it works?

Michael 19 Jul 2015, 08:10

Hi everyone,

My name is Michael and I am new here. Just wanted to introduce myself first.

I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys

Weirdeyes 18 Jul 2015, 17:50

I guess there generally is a perception that wearing glasses makes you look smarter. I did hear some people on urban dictionary saying that high plus glasses make you look like a retard.

I knew this guy who was farsighted in one eye and nearsighted in the other. He was pretty odd and didn't seem that smart. He also had a hearing aid, so he must have had some kind of disorder.

I do a lot of close-up work and I still ended up farsighted. I don't think I'm that smart because of my low IQ. I wonder if my lack of nearsightedness made my IQ low.

Soundmanpt 18 Jul 2015, 15:26

Weirdeyes and Man

I think there is a perception that anyone wearing glasses is somehow smarter. It has been proven that your more likely to be hired for a job if your wearing glasses then someone with the same attributes as yourself. That seems to work much the same way in colleges and universities as well.

Several years ago a young lady was referred to me by her friend that had gotten glasses from me. She also wanted glasses, she said was about to graduate as a paralegal. Her instructor called her aside and had several things he thought she needed to do when she started applying for a job in that field. Everything from a change in hair style and clothes to wearing glasses to give her as he called it a more sophisticated look. It must have worked because her friend told me that she got hired the first week after she was out of school. Of course there is no way to say that she wouldn't have gotten hired even if she didn't change her looks at all.

Man 18 Jul 2015, 14:50


I think intelligent people gets myopic because of a lot of reading, and the myopic children read a lot because they can't see far and this makes them intelligent.

So what about hyperopes?

They do tend to be better at outdoor activities but that does NOT mean at all, that hyperopes are fools. If fact you can see a lot of myopic fools and a lot of hyperope smart people. Of course, it's undeniable that people who do a lot of reading tend to be myopic but that's no a general rule

Weirdeyes 17 Jul 2015, 17:09

Do you think it's true that myopes have higher IQs? If they do have higher IQs do you think that hyperopes have lower IQs?

Iristotle  11 Jul 2015, 18:08

I got my glasses yesterday, I'm really happy with the way I see, and my depth perception improved moderately, so I'm quite happy with that. I haven't gotten any headaches from the left lens so that's what I like most. They're a little big, so I have to get them tightened when I go back in a week.

Cactus Jack 11 Jul 2015, 14:55


What happened, could you not get your glasses?


Cactus Jack 10 Jul 2015, 04:48


Looking forward to hearing your first impressions. I was amazed that I could "count the bricks" in the building across the street from the Optometrist's Office. Way back then, 1951 or 52, the thing to do to test your new glasses, was go to a movie. I was pretty used to sitting fairly close to the screen, but I what got my attention was that I could see the grain structure or the 35 mm film projected on the screen and the tiny holes in the screen to pass the sound from the speakers behind the screen.

Depending on how much light pollution you have, go outside after dark and notice how many stars there are, after your eyes get accustomed to the darkness. If you are far enough north, you might even be able to see the Aurora very clearly and observe its structure.

You might be pleasantly surprised at what you have been missing even with your low prescription.


Iristotle  09 Jul 2015, 23:45

I get my glasses today! I wonder what the difference will be with such a low prescription, their will probably be some suprised when I wear them for a few days.

Tactful Delivery 09 Jul 2015, 14:30


I will definitely remind her to make an appointment. She has another unrelated doctors appointment tomorrow and said the eye doctor was was next on the list.

I thought about letting her try my glasses on, is nothing else for the style aspect and to get her comfortable with the idea of wearing glasses. I don't think she shape/coloring would be flattering on her. She's blond with blue eyes, i'm brunette with a dark hazel and our faces are different shapes.

Regarding near vs farsighted: I'm curious to see what they doctor says. I thought that as a simplistic level, that being farsighted meant small print/objects is hard to see when you are close and nearsighted print/objects are hard to see far away. I understand magnifying her computer screen/hunching seems contradictory but I assumed she wasn't able to see if well and didn't know how else to compensate. Wouldn't larger print up close help a farsighted person too?

In terms of wearing my glasses to driving during the day/seeing worse then 20/40, last time I was at the eye doctor, well two visits ago but my script only changed by -.25 ax on my right eye, my doctor told me I was seeing about 20/30.

I'd buy that it's closer to 20/40 now which is still legal. I know the thought probably makes you cringe. I have worn glasses while i'm driving during the day and I sincerely can't tell much of a difference with and without them. Let me rephrase, the objects in the distance are a little crisper but I can still read signs, judge depth perceptions, etc.

I'm due for another visit to the eye doctor this fall, maybe i'll reassess. I don't have to renew my license for another three years but i'd change my behavior on my own before I went back to the DMV unnecessarily - yuck.

Soundmanpt 09 Jul 2015, 10:09

Tactful Delivery

Based on what you have described about your co worker I think she maybe nearsighted. If she was farsighted she would be trying to hold or keep reading material as far away as possible. But if she is needing to hunch over so she can get here eyes as close as possible to the screen that is s better indicator of being nearsighted. Also if she is frequently doing close work that generally leads to be nearsighted as well. And yes she very well might have some astigmatisms as well. The fact that your a female should have made talking with her much easier than if you were a male where she very well might have been uncomfortable being caught straining. but now you still have to make her keep her word about getting her eyes examined and not be putting it off. It's too bad your glasses have astigmatisms because otherwise you could have let her try your glasses to see if they helped. But your astigmatism correction would probably give her a headache after a while wearing them.

And as for your prescription you are correct that it is on the weak side. But even though it isn't very strong your vision is almost certainly worse than 20/40, meaning you really should be wearing your glasses not just for night driving but driving day or night. Most vision tests for driving requires that your vision be at least 20/40 with or without correction. You would not pass. Aside from driving it is completely up to you when you chooses to wear your glasses.

Tactful Delivery 09 Jul 2015, 01:06

I'm mildly nearsighted with a slight astigmatism.

-.50 cyl -.50 ax

-.75 cyl -.25 ax

I really only wear my glasses for driving at night and end up putting them on when i'm watching tv for extended periods of time once in a while. The few times times few i've gotten eye strain from watching tv were probably accompanied by muscle atrophy and back pain from being a lazy bum. I'm kidding about the atrophy and back pain. course.

In my case I could get by without glasses, though not ideal for the night driving, so it's hard for me to consider them life changing for me or the girl at work who will probably wear them while she sitting at her computer at work.

I was trying to make her feel better about it I guess and not make her feel like it was a big deal since she seemed disappointed.

Likelenses 09 Jul 2015, 00:04

Tactful Delivery

Do you wear glasses,and if so for near,or farsightedness?

Tactful Delivery 08 Jul 2015, 19:57

Thanks for your responses - i'm a lady by the way, so the gwg thing is kind of a wash on me.

The topic ended up coming up organically at the office today. She was trying to look at something on her screen and got irritated at the small print and asked me if I could read it. I confirmed it was really small but I could read it and the convo went from there. After she brought it up I mentioned the hunching and squinting I noticed.

She said she was a bit disappointed she'd have to deal with glasses but agreed that she needed to go to the eye doctor. She even referred to the discovery as life changing to which I replied, i'm not sure how wearing glasses a few hours a day at work (she confirmed she's only having problems up close/at a computer) will change your life but it might help your back :). I don't know if she meant it would change things in a good way or be one more hassle to deal with.

We agreed to both remind each other to make doctors appointments (mine is a dentist apt) tomorrow to hold ourselves accountable.

I'll let you know when we find out what the results are for those of you who were trying to diagnose nearsighted vs. farsighted. My bet is farsighted with a very small astigmatism (Just because I assume everyone has a small astigmatism, I really have no idea).

Weirdeyes 08 Jul 2015, 09:22


I don't have prism in my glasses at the moment. It was only 1.5, so I didn't bother.

Brian 08 Jul 2015, 05:56

WeirdEyes, How have you been making out since you started with the prism in your glasses?

Weirdeyes 08 Jul 2015, 00:17


It might not be nearsightedness. I'm not nearsighted, but I did the same thing before I got glasses.

Likelenses 07 Jul 2015, 23:34

Tactful Delivery

It sounds as though she may becoming nearsighted from the close work.

You may want to engage her in conversation,and mention that you have noticed her hunching in when on the computer.Then tell her that she should try to sit farther away to be more comfortable. She may then admit that she needs to be close to see clearly. If you are nearsighted then you can say that this is how you would sit if working without your glasses on.

If you get her to admit that she is having problems seeing,then you could ask her how well she sees an object in the distance.

Sounds as though you have a potential girl with glasses in that office.

Tactful Delivery 07 Jul 2015, 20:47

I want to get your opinion about something. I work with a woman who is about my age (early 30s) and i'm fairly certain she needs glasses for reading/looking at a computer screen all day. I'm trying to think of a nice way to tell her that I’ve noticing squinting and hunching over the screen.

Her work quality is fine so this is not a performance issue in any way, I just feel back because she’s always hunching over the computer screen/looks uncomfortable. Should I keep this information to myself and let her figure it out on her own?

She's very nice and wonderful to work with I just don't want to make her feel uncomfortable.

NJ 07 Jul 2015, 10:40

CJ, at first I thought that I was getting some corneal flattening just by wearing soft lenses, but since it only happened once over a period of many years that I wore essentially the same soft lenses, I doubt this was the case.

I suspect it was just latent hyperopia that I was bringing out, though still not sure why it only happened once, to this degree anyway. And when I got to my 40's and really needed bifocals, my distance Rx didn't change much. Of course, some people do have a small myopic shift as their lenses harden, not common but it does happen, so this could have compensated for the axial hyperopia. But it is consistent with the correction I needed after having my lenses removed, so perhaps latent hyperopia was the cause.

Cactus Jack 07 Jul 2015, 07:14


That is a puzzle. I need to think about it a bit. Something similar used to happen with rigid contacts because they would often reshape an astigmatic cornea to become more spherical, but it would typically recover it usual shape in a few hours. It even had a name, Spectacle Blur. Until the cornea recovered its normal cylinder, the cylinder correction in the glasses was not necessary.

One of the most puzzling parts is that glasses or contacts neutralize refractive errors in the eye's lens system. For you to need higher external PLUS, your internal PLUS had to be reduced. The laws of optical physics have to be obeyed. I can only think of two ways that can happen.


NJ 07 Jul 2015, 06:28

CJ, I have a puzzle for you. The following happened to me just once, but never again despite trying to induce it.

When I was in my late 30's I had been doing GOC with high plus glasses for about 15 years. I wore the combo at least 6-8 hours a day, and often for the full day. People just thought this was my actual Rx. I had a couple of diopters of natural hyperopia, with about 1D of cyl in both eyes.

Anyway, at the end of one day I took out my CLs and noticed that I couldn't see well, that I was more farsighted than usual. This happened sometimes, so I didn't think much about it. But the next morning I still had trouble seeing with my real Rx, and had to look through the bifocal segment (probably +2 or thereabouts) even to see distances, and it will still blurry. This transient hyperopia continued through the morning, with no change. I made an appointment to see an ECP at Lenscrafters, just for shits and giggles. When I got there, my hyperopia was still in full force. The autorefractor gave me an Rx that as almost +2D greater than my usual one, and when the eye doc did the refraction I managed to get the Rx to almost +3D greater in both eyes. She commented on how significantly farsighted I was and that my current pair of glasses was insufficient. I made up some story that the glasses were just an old pair, long out of date.

So with an Rx somewhere near +5D (cyl and add remained the same/similar as before) I went to Lenscrafters to get a pair made. By late afternoon I had them and could see really well with them. But over the next week or so the effect gradually wore off and I went back to my old Rx of about +2D.

This has never happened before or again, despite trying. Other relevant facts include: no change in CLs. Same diameter and BC. No use of any drugs, legal or otherwise, and ethanol was not in the picture. No other medical issues, no diabetes or endocrine dysfunction.

It was a very bizarre experience

Lv2c4i 07 Jul 2015, 03:51

CJ, I enjoyed your little sidetrip into jocularity. As far as I'm concerned no apology nor rationalization required. On the other hand, kudos and gratefulness for your ongoing attending to the queries from so many frequenting and/or finding this site. Giggle on--whether ethanol induced or otherwise.

Cactus jack 06 Jul 2015, 13:16

Guilty as charged. You caught me. I don't do it very often, but I guess "the devil made me do it" and I can resist almost anything, but temptation. My tongue was so deeply in my cheek, it hurt.

Ethanol or Grain, Drinking Alcohol in sufficient quantity can act as an anesthetic and mess up a lot of higher brain functions. Also, In sufficient quantity, it is a pretty good muscle relaxant. In the old days, before the discovery of the array of currently available medical pain killers, Whiskey, in it various forms was used as a surgical pain killer. Thus the descriptive expression about drunkenness that "He was feeling no pain".

Honestly, I am not an expert on the subject, by a long shot. I don't drink much by choice and some medical reasons, because it interferes with some prescription meds I take, to manage my Diabetes. I understand its use as a social lubricant and the original quote from Ogden Nash, "Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker" and as amplified by Willy Wonka in the 1971 version of "The Chocolate Factory".

I must admit that my first reaction to Tobias' question was that it was a clever, trick question and that is why it took me so long to answer. I wanted to think up an equally clever answer as a "Thank You" for a nice chuckle.

I apologize for my answer. I'll try to do better next time - maybe. I am pretty good at keeping my inner "devil" under control, but unfortunately, not always. Maybe I need a little nip to ease the pain in my tongue, but that might loosen the inhibitions of my inner "devil", which is not always a good thing.


NJ 06 Jul 2015, 11:40

Oh, sorry...Upon rereading I see that CJ was writing tongue-in-cheek.

Still, I have noticed this effect in the past and have wondered about it.

til 06 Jul 2015, 11:35

I don't think Cactus Jack replied in his usual way;-)

NJ 06 Jul 2015, 11:27

CJ, I don't think the effect is paralysis of the ciliary muscles, either by ethanol or (especially) water. It could be an osmotic shift, as ethanol is an ADH inhibitor (which is why beer makes you pee at lot) and there are known shifts in osmolarity that occur with ethanol consumption. Perhaps it's something similar to focus changes in diabetics, which is an osmotic shift in the crystalline lens.

There may be a CNS component as well.

Revolver 06 Jul 2015, 11:23

Tobias: there is one other unwanted side effect of too much alcohol, at least the day after, it's called BGS short for Beer Goggle Syndrome. Makes even the ugliest woman look good until the next morning. LOL.

NJ 06 Jul 2015, 06:26

Tobias, I used to wear very high plus glasses in a GOC combo, and I noticed something similar when I'd been drinking. Specifically, I had to place my glasses lower on my nose, which effectively increases the plus, after a few drinks. It could be that alcohol relaxes the ciliary muscles and make one more hyperopic. It did for me at least, and by a diopter or two it seems.

Cactus Jack 06 Jul 2015, 04:59


Paralysis of the Ciliary Muscles from either Ethanol or perhaps water. It has been reported that Bourbon and water, Scotch and water, Gin and water, and Vodka and water will all cause drunkenness. The only thing that is common there is the WATER so that must be the culprit.

Try them straight, without the water, and see if that has any effect on the results. It has been reported that enough of any of the above will cause "Blind" Drunkenness. You might consider some research in that area, purely for scientific and educational purposes. Be sure you have a non-drinking, Designated Driver to pour you into a vehicle to get you home. Also, a report on hangover effects would also be useful. Water has been reported as a culprit in hangovers, also.


Tobias 05 Jul 2015, 22:26

Hi, I have a question for Cactus Jack. My real prescription is -2.25 (both eyes) but for the last 6 months I've been wearing glasses with -3.25 (both eyes). I wear the -3.25 pair every day with no problem. But whenever I'm drunk, I find things are too blurry with this pair and I can't tolerate them, so I switch back to the -2.25 pair. Why do you think this is? Thank you!

Likelenses 05 Jul 2015, 21:12

Mister Mild

Since you in your post said her,you must be thinking of your,an MINE favorite Russian high myope.

She is still fairly young,so bearing in mind my previous post,if she got her first glasses as a very young child,and by the time she reached school age was a high myope,she would be reading through lenses that would be centered for distance.

Likelenses 05 Jul 2015, 21:03

Mister Mild,

Perhaps if the myopic progression is slow,or over a long period of the persons life.As the prescription becomes higher,vision through the optical center,of each lens becomes more important.

So I am thinking that as the persons Rx gets stronger,in order to read,and converge properly, one would not be looking through the optical. This then may lead to the eye wanting the best focus to take up a new position in order to read.

cactus Jack 05 Jul 2015, 08:27

Mister Mild,

No connection that I know of, but that does not mean anything. There is often a connection between Hyperopia and Strabismus because of the interconnection between the focus mechanism and the convergence response, but not Myopia because the focus mechanism is typically relaxed.

VA may be affected by the minification effects of high minus glasses because the image elements cover fewer Rods and Cones in the retina. Having a good, but not necessarily perfect image from each eye can improve apparent VA with both eyes iIF the two images can be fused in the brain, perhaps with a little help from some prism. The two images will be fused into one composite image in the brain. If one image has a tiny detail that is missing in the other, the brain will fill in the missing detail. A good example of this is that each eye has a blind spot where the optic nerve enters the eyeball, but it is typically not in the same location on the left and right retina and is not "visible" unless you know how to detect it.

To badly mix a metaphor, "Vision is in the brain of the beholder"


MisterMild 04 Jul 2015, 21:58

I have a question that perhaps Cactus Jack can answer... I've noticed that sometimes a high-myope woman - typically someone wearing myodisks - will have one eye turned (strabismus?) Is there an identifiable syndrome linking this abnormality with very high myopia? How is her vision affected?

Cactus Jack 03 Jul 2015, 08:09


The cylinder correction in your Left eye will take a little getting used to, but it probably will not cause any headaches or eyestrain. Your brain is used to correcting the slightly distorted image from your Left eye and you may notice that things look a little funny for a day or two while your brain reprograms itself to not do the correction. One thing I noticed when I got my first glasses was that ceiling corners no longer seemed to meet at 90 degree angles. Remember, vision occurs in the brain. The eyes are merely biological cameras.

In many cases these days, Smartphones and Tablets are the culprit in headaches for new glasses wearers. Particularly, if they need lenses in the -1 to -3 range. The tiny text makes for close reading. The explanation is pretty easy. A person who is mildly nearsighted actually has built in reading glasses and their eyes are not used to focusing to read close. When they get glasses so they can see distant things clearly, they either have to learn how to use their Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses to focus close or sometimes have to temporarily wear bifocals or wear a reduced minus prescription until their Ciliary Muscles get strong enough to focus effortlessly. Many times the new wearer knew they needed glasses, but were in serious denial for what ever reasons. Imagine getting the double whammy of getting the dreaded glasses AND bifocals at the same time and having to explain THAT to your friends.

Some years ago there was a 17 YO poster whose first prescription was -3.50. I have no idea how he managed without glasses until then. When he got his glasses, he discovered that he could no longer read or use his computer with his glasses on. He wound up having to wear trifocals until his totally unused Ciliary Muscles and Focusing system learned how to perform their intended functions. Use it or loose it applies to a lot of things.


Iristotle  03 Jul 2015, 07:35

I've got a couple questions about wearing glasses if you guys and gals could help me. A lot of my friends who wear glasses, often get terrible strain and headaches because their eyes are adjusting to the prescription. Will this happen to me? Or does it vary based on the strength of the prescription?



KL 03 Jul 2015, 03:15


Thank you so much! That explains a lot.

Weirdeyes 02 Jul 2015, 21:02

I got that near vision test as well. I ended up with an optional +1.00 add even though I'm only 19.

Cactus Jack 02 Jul 2015, 20:59


Thanks, that makes sense. I remember now that it was part of a near vision check quite a while ago. I hope KL reads your reply.


DS 02 Jul 2015, 20:07

The crossed lines test is one of several methods to test near vision.

The lines are presented with full distance correction and a cross cylinder lens that creates an artificial astigmatism. Customarily, the minus axis is placed vertical so that when under-accomodating the horizontal lines appear clearer. More plus is added until both vertical and horizontal are equal.

The principal is somewhat similar to a red/green version where the color rather than the cross cylinder causes the images to straddle the retina. More plus is required if green is clearer in the red/green test.

Cactus Jack 01 Jul 2015, 14:48


Could be. It is likely that Pearle has a central lab the serves a large number of local offices. The biggest part of the estimated week may be taken up by shipping to and from the lab and the workload of the lab. If the lab stocks the frame you selected, there may be no need to ship the actual frame you selected to the lab, which will save time. At this point, you don't have any choice but to wait.

Designer frames are typically very expensive and they are not stocked in depth because of the cost. It is even possible that the lab had to get the frame from the manufacturers warehouse. Many of the large optical companies and labs are owned by one Italian company, Luxottica, that operates under several brand names and they price their products accordingly. They generally offer good quality and good overall service, which are helpful until you learn to navigate the optical field on your own.


Iristotle 01 Jul 2015, 13:53

Cactus Jack,

After my exam, I ordered my frames through Pearle Vision, but rather than getting generic frames I got a pair made by Burberry, could that be why it might take longer than normal?


Cactus Jack 01 Jul 2015, 13:04


It depends on where you live and were you ordered your glasses. It is pretty common for first time glasses wearers to order the glasses where you had the exam. Generally, they will order the glasses from a low cost source. Some even order glasses from an online retailer like Zenni Optical, which you can do also, once you learn how.

In most states, you are not required to order glasses from the ECP who did the exam and the Examiner is required by law to give you your prescription.

There are many places that offer One or Two hour service on common prescriptions and yours probably qualifies as a common prescription. Many high volume optical centers in larger cities stock "uncut" lenses in the common prescriptions. Mass produced uncut lenses are really not very expensive and are of high quality/ You need to call around and ask ask how long it would take to get glasses with your prescription and the cost. If they stock the lenses, all that is necessary is to select the frame, cut the lens to fit the frame with the correct cylinder angle and pupillary distance, and mount it in the frame. It does not take long.

If you have a complex prescription it can take longer. A really complex prescription may have to be made by a specialty lab and can take as long as a month because they have to be individually made, sometimes from optical glass rather than optical plastic.

They said a week, but they may call you sooner and say they are ready. It is frustrating to have to wait. Most of us have been there, done that, and lived through the frustration.

Learning how to order glasses is similar to learning about eye exams. We can help you learn the low cost tricks when ordering glasses, as we did with "How to Study . . . ". Let me know when you are ready to learn about ordering low cost glasses.


Iristotle 01 Jul 2015, 11:14

How long does it take for glasses to be made and come in? They said about a week or so? So is it possible to com in earlier or later?



Likelenses 30 Jun 2015, 20:45

I at first thought that the cross lines test may be for detecting macular degeneration,but when KL said that the lines became equal after apparently changing a lense then I now agree it is most likely an astigmatism test. Perhaps it is a new method,as I have not heard of it.

Cactus Jack 30 Jun 2015, 16:08


I am not certain about the purpose of the crossed lines test. I have had it and had similar experience with it. It could be a test to make sure the cylinder and axis are close to accurate or it could be a substitute for the Red/Green fields test. Perhaps one of our ECPs could explain the test.

The Red/Green fields test is often used as a final check on the Sphere correction. The clarity of the letters in Red or Green field indicate if the Sphere is over or under corrected. It is particularly useful in younger patients that have instant and easy accommodation. It will usually detect those situations where the patient is using their Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses to compensate (intentionally or not) for more MINUS than they actually need. Curiously, the test will work even if the patient cannot tell the difference between Red and Green. Different wavelengths of light focus at different distances and if the letters are equally clear, the prescription is right for most other wavelengths (colors). As we get older, presbyopia makes sure that we can't accommodate very well and the Red/Green test is not as useful.


Cactus Jack 30 Jun 2015, 15:46


I am very glad you found "How to Study for an Eye Exam" helpful. I have been meaning to write that for quite a while. I have tried to assure and help many people on ES that were very apprehensive about an eye exam. Once you understand how it works and that it is not unpleasant, you may get to the point where you look forward to getting an exam, a new prescription, and new glasses.

It took me about 2 hours to write "How . . . " and it needs a lot of work. Any suggestions would be appreciated while it is still fresh in your mind.

I can almost assure you that this will not be the only eye exam you will ever have. Unfortunately, few ECPs have the time to really explain what what your role needs to be, to get the very best results and many have little or no interest in doing it. The more you learn about the function of the tests, the more accurate the results and the better patient you will be.

It is very likely that your prescription will change as you get older. It can change pretty fast in your teens and in your early 20s, as your visual workload increases, particularly in University. Also, as you discover the benefits of really good vision and what it is like to see really well, you may become more sensitive to changes that affect your VA. Some people think that if the Examiner said to come back at a certain time in the future, it is an order and they must suffer the annoyance of vision problems until the magic date. It is only a suggestion. If you notice a difference in your vision, it needs to be investigated.

Let us know when you get your glasses and what you think about wearing them. Also, if you have more questions, please ask.


KL 30 Jun 2015, 15:42

On the topic of eye exams, I had one a few months ago for the first time in more than a decade. (I know, I know. I should go regularly... but I haven't.) Since it's been forever since the last time, and also since I've only had probably four previous eye exams in nearly 25 years, I didn't remember in any detail what to expect. Well, at least not everything.

One of the first times, years ago, they did the red and green fields, and also split the image to check for prism.

Neither of those happened this time, but there was something I can't remember from other times: towards the end there was a thing with a bunch of parallel lines going vertically, with another number of lines crossing them at right angles. The examiner asked if they were all the same, but one direction was clearer than the other - can't remember which. Also, it was ridiculously close and hard to focus on at all. What was that for? She changed something, and then both directions were equally in focus, although just barely so. I'm curious to know what that tested.

For the record, I'm 37 and have worn glasses for myopia since I was 13. The reason I went for the test was discomfort at work where I'm on the computer pretty much all day every day. Current prescription is:

O.D. -3.00 cyl -0.50 ax 50

O.S. -2.50 cyl -1.00 ax 160

ADD 0.50

I don't remember my previous prescription exactly, but I know the sphere was around the same, and there was 0.5 D difference then too. I always had astigmatism, but don't know how much or the axis. The add is new, though.

Iristotle 30 Jun 2015, 15:07

Cactus Jack,

I really appreciate the list you gave me in what to expect, you were very thorough and it examined just about everything my doctor did to examine my eyes. The list helped ease the nervousness and minute amount of stress I had during he exam, and I truelt appreciate what you did. The exams was almost a carbon copy of what you said it would be, but not in that specific order.


Iristotle 30 Jun 2015, 14:26

Cactus Jack,

My optometrist said that I could choose to have them or not. But she recommended that I got them, they'll be used to see the board at school, TV and general tasks that involve some sort of long term focusing. I'll probably wear them full time, after all they ARE meant to help me, who's to say I can't have help all the time? It will only make my life easier.


Cactus Jack 30 Jun 2015, 14:10


That is reasonable considering what you described. The only small surprise here is the amount of astigmatism in your Left eye. Astigmatism can mess up your vision at all distances. It is generally caused by an uneven curvature of the front surface of your cornea. The exact cause is unknown. One of the big problems with astigmatism is that there is nothing you can do about it except wear corrective lenses or have refractive surgery. As a practical matter, it causes your vision system to have to work extra hard to perform the impossible task of trying to focus the image on your retina.

From a technical point of view, the Sphere of -0.25 in your right eye means that everything beyond about 13 feet is not as sharp and clear as it can be without correction. The astigmatism is a little harder to explain.

Ideally, the front surface of the cornea is shaped like a section of a perfect sphere. With astigmatism it is shaped somewhat like a section of an American Football, where it has a steeper curve in one direction than in the other. In your case, the long axis of the football is at 118 degrees. By convention, a horizontal axis is 0 degrees the numbers increase in a counter clockwise direction (looking at the patient) to 90 degrees vertical and on around to 179 degrees. 0 and 180 degrees would be the same axis so numbers greater than 179 are not used.

In your prescription, the -0.75 is the cylinder power in the direction that is actually at right angles to the 118 degrees or 28 degrees. Remember that corrective lenses neutralize the refractive error so your cornea actually has +0.75 more power in the 28 degree direction and is just right in the 118 direction. What that means is that your Left eye actually had two focus distances. The result is that lines in the image that eye sees are in focus in some directions and blurry in others, depending on the distance to the object. It can make text hard to read at almost any distance.

Did the examiner suggest full time wear?

There will be some people who say that your prescription is too weak to wear glasses. However, remember that a person wears vision correction for THEIR OWN benefit and comfort, not for the satisfaction of others. Do what feels the most comfortable for you.

Did you find the exam to be pretty much as I described and was not an unpleasant experience?


Iristotle 30 Jun 2015, 13:04

Ok, so I need glasses (no surprise here), this is my prescription


Iristotle 30 Jun 2015, 10:30

Thank you very much! Presuming I'll need glasses, I'll post whatever happens in this same thread as well as my prescription.


Cactus Jack 29 Jun 2015, 20:59


It turned out longer than I thought and it needs some editing, but I wanted to get it to you ASAP. There is some variation in the techniques various ECPs use. I guess, over the years, I have had more than 70 eye exams and I tried to relate the most common elements of a typical exam.

I didn't cover the difference between a regular exam and a Dilated exam. There really isn't much except special drops are used to paralyze your Ciliary Muscles and also cause your pupils to open up fully. Dilation is used primarily for people who have Hyperopia or people who cannot keep their Ciliary Muscles from trying to help. Dilation is also used to facilitate examination of the Retina and interior of the eye. Dilation is painless, but it takes about 4 to 5 hours to wear off. Until the agent wears off, you can't focus close or deal with bright light. If you get a Dilated exam, they should give you some very dense, disposable sunglasses to wear outside.

I have been managing my Type 2 Diabetes since I was about 30. I get a Dilated exam about every 6 months to check my Retinas for damage. So far, it appears that I have been doing a pretty good job of managing my Diabetes and I don't have any Retinal damage.

During the exam, try to let the lenses do the work, that is what they are for.

Hope this and How to Study, helps.

Be sure and tell us the results of your exam.


Cactus Jack 29 Jun 2015, 20:40


An eye exam is not like an exam that you might take in school and there is really no way to study for it. However, you can prepare for it and learn about your role in the exam. The best eye exams are a team effort between you and the Examiner. Part of the preparation is to learn what to expect, particularly if this is your first eye exam.

One important thing you need to keep in mind is that the Examiner has no way to experience what you are seeing. He/she has to depend on your answers to questions.

There are two parts to an eye exam. The first part is the Objective part. This part consists of:

1. Taking a Visual History where you describe your vision and the kinds of problems you are having.

2. Checking the internal pressure in your eyes for symptoms of Glaucoma. This is one of the very few parts of an eye exam that is even mildly uncomfortable and the discomfort only lasts for a few seconds. There are two basic ways to do the pressure test.

A. Using a special instrument to lightly touch your Cornea. Not to worry here. Before doing this type of test a drop of mild anesthetic will make sure you don’t even feel it.

B. There is a new type instrument that uses a puff of air directed against your cornea. No anesthetic is required, but the puff will startle you.

3. Obtaining a preliminary estimate of your refractive error using an Auto-Refractor, or manually using a small hand held instrument called an Ophthalmoscope or Retinoscope.

The Auto-Refractor is a relatively new instrument that was developed in conjunction with NASA to check Astronauts vision in space. You look into the machine with each eye individually at a scene or a pattern and the machine will adjust its internal lenses to focus the image you see on your retina. The Auto-Refractor only takes a few seconds for each eye and it then prints out your estimated prescription.

Some Examiners prefer to use manual methods that have been used for many years. Using an Ophthalmoscope or Retinoscope and a Trial Lens set or a Phroptor (a fancy machine with effectively a built in lens set), the Examiner will look into your eyes and select the lenses that allow him to see your retina, most clearly.

The object of this part of the exam is to get a starting place for the Subjective part of the exam where you have to describe what you see.

Typically the Subjective part of the exam starts with the Right Eye shutter open and the Left Eye shutter closed.

Step 1 is typically determining the cylinder and axis of any Astigmatism correction you need. This is actually the hardest part of the exam because you will be asked to judge relative blurriness of two images rather than the sharpness of an image.

You will be shown a line of text and a supplemental lens will be rotated into place. This lens is a cylinder lens that is mounted on a 45 degree pivot and can be flopped back an forth to bracket a trial axis or orientation of the long axis of the cylinder lens. The thing that is confusing about this test is that the straight lines (strokes) of the letters will alternate in clarity as the lens is flipped back and forth depending on their direction. I suggest concentrating on an “O” if possible. Depending on your answers, the examiner will adjust the axis knob unit the image you see is equally blurry with the supplemental lens 45 degrees each side of the selected axis.

At this point the Examiner will probably swing the supplemental lens out of the way and may change the cylinder power while asking you which lens in clearer.

You may be uncomfortable, for your first exam, asking the Examiner to let you fine tune the axis, but I have found that most will appreciate your wanting to actively participate. The way that works is that he will place your hand on the Axis control knob and you move it back and forth a few degrees of the sharpest image, this time.

The next step is determining the Sphere correction. This is an easy part of the exam because all you have to do is pick the sharpest image, but there is a tricky part. Your auto-focus mechanism will try to help, if it gets a chance. The Examiner has a couple of ways to minimize the action of your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses.

The Examiner can in effect sneak up on your Sphere prescription or he can use drops to Dilate your eyes. Lets talk about sneaking up on your prescription first. There are actually 4 lenses in your eye’s lens system. All of them are PLUS lenses and the total power is about +56 diopters. The only variable focus lens is the crystalline lens whose PLUS power is controlled by your ciliary muscles. For distance, your Crystalline lens is fully relaxed and has somewhere around +15 diopters. When you focus to read, your Ciliary Muscles squeeze the Crystalline lens to increase its PLUS power by the amount necessary to focus which depends on the distance to the object.

This will take a little thought to get your mind around, but if you are nearsighted, your lens system has too much PLUS for the distance from the lens system to your retina and you need MINUS lenses to neutralize some of that excess PLUS power. You ONLY have the ability to increase the PLUS power of your lens system. You have NO ability to reduce the PLUS power of your Crystalline lenses more that fully relaxed.

To try to keep your Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses from getting in the act, the examiner will start with NOT ENOUGH MINUS or TOO MUCH PLUS (same thing) and gradually increase the MINUS one or two steps at a time, while reducing the size of the line you are asked to read. He will not tell you what power lens or what line you are looking at. Eventually, he will reach the 20/20 line and a lens power that lets you read it with no mistakes.

He will then follow the same procedure with your Left Eye.

When he has completed both eyes, he will open the shutters and you may see two images. This part of the test is to check your muscle balance using some prisms. He will probably ask you to tell him when the two images are aligned horizontally and then vertically. While the images are separated, you have an important check to make. Compare the sharpness of the two images. If they are not equally sharp, be sure and tell the Examiner which image is clearer. If there is a difference, he will likely reduce the sharpness of the clearest image until they match. The important thing at this point is that they match. That lack of sharpness will be corrected in the next phase with both eyes working together.

Next he will fuse the images so both eyes are working together and repeat the Sphere procedure by gradually increasing the MINUS or decreasing the PLUS until you see the smallest line of letters very clearly.

That pretty much completes the exam except for checking your near vision with a small chart about 14 to 16 inches from you.

Iristotle 29 Jun 2015, 19:52

Cactus Jack,

My eye appointment is at 2:00 tommarow, please if you can have the list by then.



Iristotle 29 Jun 2015, 13:51

Cactus Jack,

Please post the Eye Exam tips when you are finished with the list. :D



Cactus Jack 29 Jun 2015, 12:18


I thought it might be something like that. I did not find that reference, so I did not mention it as a possibility.


Iristotle 29 Jun 2015, 10:15

Cactus Jack,

I did a Google search, and it said that it was used sometimes for color perception, but it's mostly used as a mark regarding the threshold of your sight to your ability to drive.

Cactus Jack 29 Jun 2015, 03:59


I really don't know for sure. Some charts have them and others do not. I suspect both colored lines are there to help the screener identify the lines for the subject. The green line is below the 20/30 line. If a subject cannot read the "line above the red bar" they may be asked to "try the line above the green bar". If the subject cannot identify the colored bars, there may be other problems with color perception, but I doubt many screeners look for that.


John S 28 Jun 2015, 21:21


You are not the only one that did that... I went through a lot more trouble.

I figured out I needed glasses after I tried wearing my Dad's reading glasses. When I took them off, I couldn't see anything close, and faraway was a little blurry. I thought I ruined my eyes. I was scared shi*less. But after about 30-60 seconds I could see again. Wow, what a relief.

My distance vision was blurry with his reading glasses, but close stuff was really clear. I always saw my Dad look over the top of them to see distance, so I thought that was just a normal thing.

But I knew something was different about me. The other kids at school could wear their glasses all the time. I figured out most of them were nearsighted, and I was farsighted. I thought that must have been the difference.

When I was 13, I "permanently borrowed" my Dad's extra glasses. I started wearing them for homework and building projects. My bedroom was in the basement, so when I heard someone coming down the stairs, I took them off and hid them. I did that until I was 16. By then I knew I needed stronger glasses. It was getting harder to read without them, and I had to hold stuff further away to focus.

My Dad got bifocals. I could see a lot better with them. The reading lenses were stronger, and the distance lenses made my distance vision perfect. They were really cool. I got to wear them for a week while my parents were gone. I was so used to them, my eyes screamed when I took them off. I was so close to telling my parents, but I just couldn't do it. Stupid 16 year old...

When I was 17, I couldn't deal with it anymore. I still had not said anything to my parents. One day after school I went to get glasses. Long story short, the first doctor wouldn't give me reading glasses.

I was really frustrated, so I tried another doctor. I knew not to strain this time, so I let my eyes relax. He checked my distance prescription. Then he showed me the reading chart, it was really blurry. I told him there was no way I could see those small letters. That didn't seem to surprise him at all. He made the lenses stronger, and said I needed to wear bifocals.

When I got my glasses, they didn't have as much power as my Dad's glasses did. So I went back and told him I worked at a stereo shop, and I couldn't see close enough to solder. He said my lenses were set for 16-24 inches. I had long arms, so I guess he figured that was good distance. He said he would make them stronger. He went from a +1.50 to a +2.00 add. So that made the distance 13-17 inches. My close vision was a lot sharper.

I had my bifocals for about a month. I was fixing a TV in the garage. I got my nerve up and put my glasses on knowing my parents would eventually come out there. Now that was awkward. The look I got from my parents could have killed. Then all the questions started. My Mom asked me if I really needed bifocals, maybe the doctor made a mistake. No mistake. I was so glad it was over, and I could wear glasses whenever I wanted to.

I found out my Dad had worn reading glasses when he was a teenager, so he wasn't surprised that I needed glasses too. I couldn't believe I was so stupid to wait 5 years to get my own glasses.

A couple months later I found my Dad's prescription card. His prescription was the exactly the same as mine was.

R +1.00 L +1.00 add +2.00

Iristotle 28 Jun 2015, 21:00

Cactus Jack,

What is the purpose of the Green Line under the 20/30 point on the chart?


Cactus Jack 28 Jun 2015, 19:10


Look up Snellen Chart on Google. There are a row of images shown. The most common chart is the one on the left. If you click on it, you will see an enlarged image with the lines identified by the Snellen Fraction. The 20/20 line has a red line under it.


Cactus Jack 28 Jun 2015, 19:05


The primary function of an eye chart is vision screening. Don't let the Snellen Fraction confuse you too much. The Snellen Chart (or something similar) It is used in most eye exams to measure the effectiveness of a particular lens combination in correcting a refractive error.

The most common eye chart is the Snellen Chart. The letters are carefully selected and are of a particular size and shape to reveal difficulty in identifying them at various distances. The letter sizes were determined empirically by Snellen, many years ago.

You can look up the specifications but the idea was to find a letter size that could be read my most people who did not need vision correction at a distance of 20 feet or 6 meters. That became the 20/20 line. Today, the size of the letters on the 20/20 line are defined by the angle subtended at a distance of 20 feet or a specified size.

A persons VA is often specified as being a Snellen Fraction. For example, 20/20 means that the person can see at 20 feet what a person with "normal" vision sees at 20 feet. 20/50 would mean that they see at 20 feet what person with "normal" vision sees at 50 feet. Incidentally, "normal" vision is not the best possible vision, just the average. There are some people who have 20/15 vision and a few with even better at 20/10.

20/15 is actually closer to "perfect" vision than 20/20, but few ECPs will try for that, for fear of encouraging an increase in myopia.

VA can actually vary through the day and with some changes in health and it has only a very loose relationship to a glasses prescription to give the Best Corrected VA or BCVA. It is no substitute for a refraction.

I am very fortunate to have pretty good vision at my age. I was a bit myopic before I had cataract surgery about 14 years ago. I have Intra Ocular Lenses (IOLs) that mostly corrected that and curiously are a bit more efficient than the natural crystalline lenses they replace. When I am fresh, I can read the 20/15 line with my glasses and only miss a couple of letters. The way they write that is 20/15 -2. When I am tired or not feeling well it is not that good, but mostly adequate.

The more I learn about how the eye, vision, and the brain works, from an engineering perspective, the more amazed I am at how beautiful it is. It is brilliant, clever, and elegant. We have only begun to learn how to crudely duplicate it, with electronics and computers, in the past 20-30 years.

I will try to write up something on "How to Study for an Eye Exam" and post it by tomorrow. maybe it will help.


Iristotle 28 Jun 2015, 18:16

Yes I'm interested, however considering I just told them today, I don't think we've arranged an appointment yet. If you or anyone else knows, how exactly do they measure VA on an eye chart? Is their a select amount of letters that deem your strength, or is it based on multiple factors. If you know please do tell.


Cactus Jack 28 Jun 2015, 18:06


I knew you could do it. I know it took courage and I am glad you found it. Many of us have been through the experience.

I thought about your comment that they don't do eye tests after the 8th grade. Maybe it is because by then you should be able to know when something is not right with your vision and take action to do something about it. No one knows more about your body than you do. Part of growing up is to learn to manage your health. Ultimately, YOU have to do it, but for a few years yet, your parents will have to help.

You did good.

I agree that you will likely need glasses, but I also suspect that the prescription will be pretty low and in the common range for young teens. Many optical centers stock lens "blanks" in "popular" powers and can cut and mount the lenses in the frames of your choice, in a matter of a few hours or less. You don't have to get glasses at the same place you get the exam, but they have to give you your prescription. I have had good luck with the Optometrists at Wal-Mart Vision Centers and have been pleased with glasses from there and the reasonable prices for single vision glasses. Frankly, I doubt if you will need any fancy options with your prescription and they can delay getting your glasses. These days, there is no difference in the quality of glasses from boutique dispensing opticians and Vision Centers like you find an Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, or Costco, but there can be a big difference in cost. Many of the Optometrists associated with the Vision Centers just mentioned offer Walk In service, without an appointment, if they are not booked up.

When you gain some experience and have some time to wait for your glasses, we can teach you how to order very inexpensive, very good quality glasses from on line retailers such as Zenni Optical. Many of our members use Zenni and are very pleased with the quality of the glasses and the price.

Because this is your first eye exam, I may be able to offer you some tips on what to expect and how you can help the examiner give you the most accurate prescription. Let me know if you are interested and have time before your exam.


Iristotle 28 Jun 2015, 15:50

Well that was really painful to do, but it doesn't seem so now. I'm getting my eyes checked in a couple of days (hopefully) and I'll probably need glasses. Still amazed I summed up the courage to do that. :D

Nervous and excited are two emotions that do not mix.


Soundmanpt 28 Jun 2015, 10:19


You might find going without your glasses for a day a fun experiment to try. Just be sure you pick a day where you won't be needing to drive anywhere because of course that would be impossible. You would want to stat by getting a good nights sleep so your eyes are well rested. And whatever you don't put your glasses on when you get up. Chances of going all day without your glasses will be better if your able to stay in your house because your familiar with your surroundings. Also the longer you leave your glasses off the more your eyes will start to accommodate and you will slowly begin to feel like your more able to see things. So you might be surprised at how well you would do for your day with glasses, but I think by the next morning your eyes would be happy to have them back on again. If you look into the thread "Going without Glasses" in here you will find where several have tested their eyes by going without glasses with various results. if you decide to give it a try be sure to let us know your results.

This is really just my opinion but I think most of the people you see wearing glasses full time are probably wearing glasses that are between -3.00 and -5.00. Of course some much weaker and some much stronger.

 28 Jun 2015, 05:49

Would over the counter meds that cause increased pressurw in the eye help trigger real myopia?

Likelenses 28 Jun 2015, 02:44


You have a great prescription.

A lot of us here like girls with glasses.

Your lenses are powerful enough to not look like you don't need them.

Would you like to wear stronger glasses?

Iristotle 27 Jun 2015, 18:10

I'm going to tell/ask them tommarow for an eye exam. Hopefully we can fit it in and get glasses before vacation, but most of all I hope they won't go "why do you think you need them? What are they called? Hipsters?" ir think I'm doing it to "fit in" or "be cool"

Iristotle 27 Jun 2015, 13:22

Cactus Jack,

They might, but in my state the don't require school eye exams past the 8th grade


Iristotle 27 Jun 2015, 13:14

Cactus Jack,

Yeah, me and my 12 year old mind thought it was both embarrassing and unneeded because it wasn't interfering with my binocular vision.

Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 13:06


Considering your visual ancestry, I would expect your parents to ask you why you did not tell them you were having some vision problems, when you first noticed them. They will probably feel bad about not noticing that you were having problems.


Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 12:38


I have often wished that I pursued Optometry, but I got interested in electronics (back in the Vacuum Tube days) when I was about 10. One of the most important things you can learn, is how to learn. The books and tools I had back then, while very limited by todays standards, enabled me to learn enough about electricity and electronics, to be fixing TVs for friends and neighbors at 14 to 15 to earn spending money. It was "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King", in action. Most people thought TV was pretty close to Magic. It was a lot easier back then because most problems were tube failures, but I knew enough to be able to deal with other problems as well. The important point is that I did not have to wait to learn about it in school. By the time I got to high school, it was pretty well known that I knew why electricity took two wires, even if you could not see one of them. In fact, when I took Physics in high school, I was asked by the teacher to help with the electricity part of the course. It was his first year teaching and electricity was not his forte. I became his teaching assistant for electricity. I think all of us learned a lot. I learned the most, particularly about explaining things in terms that people understand.

When I graduated from high school in 1954, computers were laboratory curiosities. Thomas Watson, head of IBM, predicted there might be a market for 12 computers in the world. He was off by several orders of magnitude. I got interested in computers in 1975 and had to teach myself about them. Fortunately, I knew how to do that. Wound up in the Industrial Computer Design business and have a couple of patents.

If you are interested in Vision and Optics, I suggest you get better acquainted with your friend's Grandfather. He might become a Mentor and guide you in pursuing a career in Optometry or even Ophthalmology.

As you probably noticed, I am not an ECP. I got interested in Vision and Optics when I was unable to get satisfactory answers to my own vision problems. I developed some Strabismus problems and needed glasses with prism, but could not get satisfactory answers about why prism seemed to reduce my VA. I don't have all the answers yet, but I have been able to make some improvements that actually amazed my OD. I studied a lot and have become something of an Amateur in the original French sense. I still have lots to learn.

Many of the things we take for granted today, were discovered by Amateurs in the 1700s and 1800s. Look up the discoveries of Sir Isaac Newton and read about him. He did a lot more than explore and explain the laws of motion and gravity. He codified the laws of optics that we use every day and developed Calculus to mathematically describe what he observed happening to objects accelerated by the force of gravity, when ordinary Math would not do the job.

If you ever want to share thoughts or ideas privately, please feel free to use so we don't bore these folks.


Iristotle 27 Jun 2015, 12:36

Cactus Jack,

To add to my previous post, I believe my mother was nearsighted, but I don't know for sure. On my moms side of the family every boy needed glasses in order to see, and it was not specified whether they had Astigmatism or if they were Nearsighted or Farsighted. My older brother is Farsighted, although his lenses from my recollection don't look farsighted. We studied genetics in biology and apparently Farsightedness was Dominant while Nearsightedness was vice recessive, knowing how alleles work in genetics, my uncle on my fathers side is nearsighted, so I suppose that gene is present in both parents, but never affected my fathers vision, and I therefore could've gotten a double reccesive causing me to become nearsighted, but don't quote me on that.


Iristotle 27 Jun 2015, 11:19

Cactus Jack,

I appreciate the depth of your answer, only one of my parents had glasses as a kid so that probably will sympathies more contrary to the other. My depth perception actually isnt that great as I've had some trouble for about 2-3 years with that. I live in Michigan, and sports are extremely popular, but I don't play them all the time so that shouldn't hurt me that much. I'm actually thinking about becoming an Optometrist because I'm facinated with the anatomy of the eye and how we all perceive things differently, because I've always considered it my job to help others. I read a lot of books, and I've been scrutinized because of the books that I've read (Dr. Zhivago, Republic, Nineteen Eighty Four and Atlas Shrugged) but I really like philosophy, so I figured I should come up with a name that blends both my aspirations and interests, my name is a pun on Aristotole, except fitting in Eye Anatomy.

Nina 27 Jun 2015, 11:10

Glad you agree. I'm not blind with glasses but always need them. My opticians say is very normal to be shortsighted and have astigmatism. Is there something we can do to stop this happening? Or just let it happen and live with it

Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 10:54


You could, I doubt you would enjoy it. Your world would get blurry about 22 cm or 8 inches from you eyes or even less. Your astigmatism would mess up your vision at all distances.

It might be OK or even be beneficial, if you planned to chill out for a day and mostly sleep. I don't think it would be much fun to read if the text was small.


Nina 27 Jun 2015, 10:45

I'm 29 and wear glasses and contacts. -4.50 -1.25 160 what do you think of my prescription? Normal? Could I go without wearing glasses for a day?

Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 10:42


Hi Matt,

I think you meant Aristotle, but we are not here to discuss spelling and we don't do tests or grades. We mostly talk about Vision and I would like to welcome you to that fascinating world.

Based on what you wrote, I am guessing you are in your mid-teens now and you have finally been able to quantify your discovery of 4 years ago that you don't see equally well with each of your two eyes. Many of us here made similar discoveries when we were about your age, but had no idea what to do about it. You are very fortunate to have a friend whose Grandfather is an Eye Care Professional and you were able to do a crude test with the trial lens and later augment that test with a crude Astigmatism test. I would like to congratulate you on some excellent problem solving research and analysis. I am wondering if you might have some interest in the sciences.

I made a similar discovery that explained a lot of other things, when I was about your age, except my left eye was worse than yours and I needed -1.50 in my left eye when I finally got glasses at 14. I'm 77 now, but way back then, where I grew up in South Texas, the need for vision correction meant that you had "weak" eyes and were somehow less than "perfect". Fortunately, that time has past and the need for vision correction is no longer a stigma, but an important tool in helping you develop your full potential. You gain a huge portion of your knowledge base through your eyes and your vision needs to be comfortable and effortless, with both eyes working together, to help your vision develop properly.

As I have said in other posts, vision occurs in the brain, the eyes are merely biological cameras. If one eye delivers a better image than the other in a given situation, your brain will use the clearest image and may ignore the other or use what it can of the blurry image to try to build a 3D image in your brain. In my case, I needed -1.50 to correct my left eye and 0.00 for my right. It turned out that I was using my left eye to read and my right eye for distance. I had no idea what was happening and I thought I had good vision, because I did not know what really good vision was. One important thing was that I did not have very good depth perception.

You did not mention where you live, but when and where I grew up, ball sports were very popular, particularly Baseball. No team would have me. The problem was that I could not hit the ball or catch it very well. If I did either, it was almost an accident. Because of my limited depth perception, I had no idea what the ball actually was until it was in the catchers mitt, on the ground, or hit me. After I got glasses, I was very pleasantly surprised by 3D vision, but my eyes had not learned to work together very well and because my brain used one eye to read and one for distance, my focusing system did not work very well and I had to get bifocals in college to help me with the reading workload.

Back to your situation. You really need an Eye Exam and will probably need glasses. You might be able to get by with the difference in your eyes, but there is nothing you can do about astigmatism, except external correction with glasses, contact lenses, or refractive surgery - frankly glasses work better at your age and for mild astigmatism. I suspect that, depending on the rules where you live, you may not be able to drive without vision correction in another year or two.

It is highly likely that at your age and in your visual environment you will become slowly more nearsighted (myopic) in both eyes until your early to mid 20s when you stop growing. It is unlikely that your prescription will ever get very high, that depends more on your genetics than your visual environment. Again, I am guessing, but I doubt you would ever need more than about -4.00 in your worst eye, but everyone is different. Are any of your parents, grandparents, Aunts or Uncles nearsighted?

You really need to tell your parents, which might take some courage, unless they need glasses themselves. If so, they will understand immediately. It will also take some courage when you start wearing glasses around your friends and classmates, but those questions and comments only last for a few days. Don't sweat the small stuff. Wearing glasses is not much different than wearing shoes or clothes. When you think about it, they are just tools to protect your feet from rocks, keep you warm or help you see better.

If you have more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Welcome again!


Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 09:27

Oops, sorry. Slow responding computer today.


Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 09:25


It could easily be more than -1.00, but probably not as high as -2.00. So much depends on the image processing power of an individual's brain.

As I have mentioned many times before, Vision occurs in the brain. The eyes are merely biological cameras. The brain is perfectly capable of improving apparent Visual Acuity (VA) IF it knows what something is supposed to look like. Also, there is no way to know if person easily read the 20/50 line or struggled with some of the letters or perhaps even squinted a little to achieve a pin-hole like effect.

A Snellen Chart is primarily a screening tool until you get to the lines just above and below the 20/20 line. Incidentally, the 20/20 line is really the "normal" line that could be read by most people with "good" vision when Snellen was working out the chart.

VA depends on many factors such as the number of Rods and Cone in the central area of the Retina (Fovea) and even the biochemistry and image processing capability of the Retina at the time of the test. In many ways the Retina works a lot like the image sensor in a digital camera. The Retina is estimated to have about 120 million Rods and Cones, but only about 1 million individual nerve fibers in the Optic Nerve that goes to the Visual Cortex. There is a fair amount of processing within the Retina itself to combine the signals from all the Rods and Cones and transmit them on the 1 million Optic Nerve fibers.

Some people have VA around 20/15 and a few around 20/10 as their "Normal"

About the only thing the screening part of the Snellen Chart tells you is if you ought to see an ECP. Around the 20/20 line it only tell you how close you are to your Best Corrected Visual Acuity (BCVA). nothing more.


Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 09:25


It could easily be more than -1.00, but probably not as high as -2.00. So much depends on the image processing power of an individual's brain.

As I have mentioned many times before, Vision occurs in the brain. The eyes are merely biological cameras. The brain is perfectly capable of improving apparent Visual Acuity (VA) IF it knows what something is supposed to look like. Also, there is no way to know if person easily read the 20/50 line or struggled with some of the letters or perhaps even squinted a little to achieve a pin-hole like effect.

A Snellen Chart is primarily a screening tool until you get to the lines just above and below the 20/20 line. Incidentally, the 20/20 line is really the "normal" line that could be read by most people with "good" vision when Snellen was working out the chart.

VA depends on many factors such as the number of Rods and Cone in the central area of the Retina (Fovea) and even the biochemistry and image processing capability of the Retina at the time of the test. In many ways the Retina works a lot like the image sensor in a digital camera. The Retina is estimated to have about 120 million Rods and Cones, but only about 1 million individual nerve fibers in the Optic Nerve that goes to the Visual Cortex. There is a fair amount of processing within the Retina itself to combine the signals from all the Rods and Cones and transmit them on the 1 million Optic Nerve fibers.

Some people have VA around 20/15 and a few around 20/10 as their "Normal"

About the only thing the screening part of the Snellen Chart tells you is if you ought to see an ECP. Around the 20/20 line it only tell you how close you are to your Best Corrected Visual Acuity (BCVA). nothing more.


Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 09:25


It could easily be more than -1.00, but probably not as high as -2.00. So much depends on the image processing power of an individual's brain.

As I have mentioned many times before, Vision occurs in the brain. The eyes are merely biological cameras. The brain is perfectly capable of improving apparent Visual Acuity (VA) IF it knows what something is supposed to look like. Also, there is no way to know if person easily read the 20/50 line or struggled with some of the letters or perhaps even squinted a little to achieve a pin-hole like effect.

A Snellen Chart is primarily a screening tool until you get to the lines just above and below the 20/20 line. Incidentally, the 20/20 line is really the "normal" line that could be read by most people with "good" vision when Snellen was working out the chart.

VA depends on many factors such as the number of Rods and Cone in the central area of the Retina (Fovea) and even the biochemistry and image processing capability of the Retina at the time of the test. In many ways the Retina works a lot like the image sensor in a digital camera. The Retina is estimated to have about 120 million Rods and Cones, but only about 1 million individual nerve fibers in the Optic Nerve that goes to the Visual Cortex. There is a fair amount of processing within the Retina itself to combine the signals from all the Rods and Cones and transmit them on the 1 million Optic Nerve fibers.

Some people have VA around 20/15 and a few around 20/10 as their "Normal"

About the only thing the screening part of the Snellen Chart tells you is if you ought to see an ECP. Around the 20/20 line it only tell you how close you are to your Best Corrected Visual Acuity (BCVA). nothing more.


Cactus Jack 27 Jun 2015, 09:25


It could easily be more than -1.00, but probably not as high as -2.00. So much depends on the image processing power of an individual's brain.

As I have mentioned many times before, Vision occurs in the brain. The eyes are merely biological cameras. The brain is perfectly capable of improving apparent Visual Acuity (VA) IF it knows what something is supposed to look like. Also, there is no way to know if person easily read the 20/50 line or struggled with some of the letters or perhaps even squinted a little to achieve a pin-hole like effect.

A Snellen Chart is primarily a screening tool until you get to the lines just above and below the 20/20 line. Incidentally, the 20/20 line is really the "normal" line that could be read by most people with "good" vision when Snellen was working out the chart.

VA depends on many factors such as the number of Rods and Cone in the central area of the Retina (Fovea) and even the biochemistry and image processing capability of the Retina at the time of the test. In many ways the Retina works a lot like the image sensor in a digital camera. The Retina is estimated to have about 120 million Rods and Cones, but only about 1 million individual nerve fibers in the Optic Nerve that goes to the Visual Cortex. There is a fair amount of processing within the Retina itself to combine the signals from all the Rods and Cones and transmit them on the 1 million Optic Nerve fibers.

Some people have VA around 20/15 and a few around 20/10 as their "Normal"

About the only thing the screening part of the Snellen Chart tells you is if you ought to see an ECP. Around the 20/20 line it only tell you how close you are to your Best Corrected Visual Acuity (BCVA). nothing more.


Iristotle 27 Jun 2015, 09:15

Yeah i also tested positive for astigmatism in the left eye too.

I used one of these cbarts on my phone to test myself

miku 27 Jun 2015, 01:26

Thank you Cactus Jack!

It does make sense and I am aware that my question sounded a little stupid. I only wanted a rough idea of how strong someone's sphere-only prescription would be if they failed reading the 20/50 line.

And it does make sense that there is a very loose connection between prescription and acuity but I got to the point where I didn't know how to estimate that. Personally, I was expecting something like -1.50 or -2.00.

Cheers Cactus Jack

Iristotle 26 Jun 2015, 21:43

Hello i was wondering if anybody could help me with some recent vision changes, so i would like opiniom.

Anywah, My name is Matt, and for the past couple of years ive neglected to address the health of my eyes, and I think now should be the time. I discovered in the sixth grade that my left eye was exceptionally blurry compared to the right, whenever we did eye tests at school, ot never got to the point where it was bad enough to merit a note home, so I just shrugged it off as a harmless problem, but looking now, 4 years later, I think it might’ve gotten to the point where it will make me need glasses. My friends grandfather is an Ophthalmologist, so he has a bunch of cool equipment lying around as well as an eye chart or too tacked up on the wall. It was hung at the end of the hall, so we tried and measured out 20 ft. as well as we could and gave ourselves a rudimentary test for fun, my right eye was perfect, but my left eye failed at the 20/30 line (that’s where I missed the first letter, I don’t know if there is a limit, basically its where everything became fuzzy, but it would require some focusing for me to figure some of them out). We called my friends grandpa over and we asked him what this means, I told him ive experienced this for a couple of years, and he thinks I need glasses. My friends grandpa than opened a case full of lenses, and told me to try them until my vision was completely clear. I selected a lens labeled “-0.50” and that for the most part made my vision clear. I have a friend who wears glasses who started out with the same problem as me, but over the course of a year or so, his other eye eventually needed glasses, and one didn’t just need a clear lens. On my way home, I stopped on the sidewalk and downloaded an astigmatism test off the internet to my phone, and my right eye tested positive for astigmatism, and autonomously opened a tab in maps to an optical shop, which is why I guess the lens never corrected my eye to the extent of perfect. I also found the board a little nit fuzzy to tale notes, but it only rarely required me to squint in order to do so. Before I tell my parents, id like to know even if I should because its not that major, whether you think ill need glasses or not and what you think will happen to the eye that is currently not experiencing any problems.


Cactus Jack 26 Jun 2015, 15:11


There is a VERY loose relationship between Visual Acuity as expressed by a Snellen Fraction and an actual prescription. A Snellen Fraction of 20/50 means that a person can see at 20 feet what a person with "normal" vision sees at 50 feet.

On a Snellen Chart, the 20/50 line is 4 steps above the 20.20 line. Typically the lines as you go up the chart are 20/20, 20/25, 20/30, 20/40, and 20/50. A very inaccurate rule of thumb for sphere only myopia is, each line above the 20/20 line requires a -0.25 step so 20/50 would be about -1.00. However, you should notice that there is a difference of 5 feet between the 20/20, 20/25, and 20/30 lines and 10 feet between 20/30, 20/40, and 20/50.

It is not a good idea to use the Snellen Fraction to determine prescriptions. If it was, we would not need Trial Lens Sets, Phroptors, or Auto-Refractors.


miku 26 Jun 2015, 12:24

Hi Cactus Jack,

I was hoping you might be able to help me. First of all, I am aware of the fact that the answer to my question depends a lot on many subjective factors.

Considering a healthy but myopic eye with no astigmatism, what would be the approximate prescription if the visual acuity was 20/50?

Thank you


Adam 25 Jun 2015, 17:43

Thanks for that information, was interesting.

Well I bitten the bullet and uploaded some photo's on Facebook some of which I have my glasses on in. I still think I look strange with them on. At least now my friends can see me in them, I will wait to see the comments!

Cactus Jack 25 Jun 2015, 06:00


I don't know if you are familiar with the laws of optics, discovered and codified by Sir Isaac Newton, of gravity fame, about 300 years ago. Using those laws, you can calculate the focusing effects of various power lenses.

Glasses correct focusing errors by neutralizing them with the lens power that is opposite of the error. In other words, if you need -0.75 corrective lenses, it is because your eyes actually have +0.75 refractive error. That is the same as having built in reading glasses of +0.75 power.

In practical terms that means that without your glasses, everything beyond 1.3 meters or about 4.4 feet is blurry without your glasses.

One of the great things about visiting new places on holiday is seeing new things. Consider how much more you will see with your glasses than without. Then, forget you are wearing them and enjoy. It is a beautiful world. Don't miss any of it.

I won't bore you with any more details, but if you have more questions, don't be shy about asking them.


Adam 25 Jun 2015, 00:41

Hi thanks for that I'm 30 and work in an office so am at the computer most of the day.

Where I'm on holiday is very little lights and have noticed the difference in seeing them and also the leaves on the trees. I have also found neon lighting to be a lot clearer with them on, before it looked so fuzzy I couldn't read it from too far away.

Cactus Jack 24 Jun 2015, 19:25


The thing that is doing the adjusting is your brain. Vision actually occurs in the brain. Your eyes are merely biological cameras. Your brain has amazing image processing power and can correct blurry images if it knows what something is supposed to look like. In fact, your brain can create images with your eyes closed. Ever had a dream?

The problem is that it takes a lot of work and energy to correct blurry images. With your glasses, the images are being corrected optically and very little extra work is required and your brain likes the reduced work load. Think of your glasses as labor saving tools.

As far as wearing them in front of friends and family. Everyone who wears glasses has had to go through that process. The good news is that it will only last a day or two. After that, no one will notice your glasses unless you change the frame style or go without them. Most people do not notice even significant changes in lens power. The biggest thing that will happen is people asking to try them on. Some will comment on how strong they are, some will say they are weak, and some will comment how much better they see with your glasses or say nothing. The people who say nothing just had bit of a shock. Usually it means that they also need glasses.

The most important thing is to remember that you wear glasses for YOUR benefit and you do not need the permission of any other person on this planet to see clearly and comfortably.

You mentioned that you noticed the biggest difference at night. That is a very common observation. The thing that causes a difference between day and night vision is your pupil size. In bright light, your Iris closes down to protect your eyes from the light. That increases your "depth of field" or range of useful focus. In dim light your Iris opens up and the blur becomes more noticeable. The same effect occurs with the f stop adjustment on a professional camera lens.

If you can, try to get away from bright city lights some night an observe stars in a clear sky. With and without your glasses. Notice what you have been missing.

Welcome to the group!

May I ask your age, occupation and where you live?


Adam 24 Jun 2015, 17:04

Sorry meant 3 week holiday, wish it was 3 months!!!

Adam 24 Jun 2015, 17:03

Hi I got glasses a few months ago -0.75 I each eye, but had been a bit shy about wearing them in public and in front of my friends and family. So much so not many of them know I had them.

I have been away on a 3 month holiday and decided this could be a good chance to get used to them around people who didn't know me. So I wouldn't be so aware of people asking about them.

I have been wearing them the majority of time especially in the evenings and am surprised at how my vision now seems so much clearer with them on, I hadn't really noticed this before when I wore them.

Would this just be my eyes adjusting to having lenses in front of my eyes? The difference is so much I think I will have no choice but to start wearing them more often when I get home, as reading signs in the distance is noticeably worse.

Soundmanpt 23 Jun 2015, 09:52


It does seem strange doesn't it? It really makes me wonder if they were somehow prescribed wrong. The same thing happened with me. Someone i know quite well ordered glasses from me just a year ago but to be honest the prescription slip she gave me was actually a year and some months old. Like your friend it was written for a weak minus prescription and also some minor astigmatisms. She got her glasses and loved them. about 6 months ago she went and got her eyes examined and now had a current prescription slip. But when i looked at it this time she was prescribed a weak plus prescription with about the same astigmatisms. I didn't question her and just placed her order for 2 pairs of glasses. I was sure when she got them that she was going to complain that they weren't right and I would be sending them back to Zenni to replace. I was prepared because I still had both of her prescription slips in my hand ready to show her when she complained. But when her glasses came in and I she put them on she seemed totally fine with them and I even asked her if she could see well with them and she said they were perfect. So there you go and this young lady is only 20 I know because I just saw her 2 days ago and she is all excited that she will be 21 in now 7 days. Oh and she was examined by the same doctor both times so the doctor had to see her chart from her past eye exam. I wonder if he was at all surprised in the change.

bcs 23 Jun 2015, 05:41

A friend of mine who is in her late 20s has been wearing low plus glasses with a touch of astigmatism. She wanted to try contact lenses for work and went to see an optician over the weekend.

Before they started the process of fitting, they double checked her prescription with an autorefractor which printed out a low minus sphere rx.

How does one go from being mildly hyperopic to mildly myopic over a few years? Is this a cause for concern?

Cactus Jack 22 Jun 2015, 20:54


Hopefully, it won't be too long. If the -2 over glasses are too strong or too weak, I can help you with a simple procedure to measure how much her has changed. All you need is a measuring tape, a book or newspaper, and maybe some OTC reading glasses, but you may not need them. It depends on her prescription. Let me know if I can help.

May I ask how far along she is, her complete prescription and where you live?


Eddy 22 Jun 2015, 16:24

Kris thanks for your response

Eddy 22 Jun 2015, 16:23

Kris thanks for your response

Kris  22 Jun 2015, 13:43


This has happened to a couple of friends of mine who were myopic. One friend had a really significant change in her eyesight with her pregnancy, but it improved again once she had her baby. Apparently it has something to do with the release of hormones which prepare the woman's body for childbirth. The hormones help loosen the ligaments in the woman's pelvis to make childbirth easier. The side effect is that women's feet often get wider too and their eyesight changes. One of the joys of pregnancy that isn't mentioned very often. It is always worth ensuring that nothing insidious is going on, but probably nothing to worry about and it should improve after your baby is born.

Eddy 22 Jun 2015, 11:45

Cactus Jack,

We plan to mention it to th Dr. On the next visit. We also ordered 2 pairs of glasses on zenni on with the last prescription and on with -2 more.


Cactus Jack 21 Jun 2015, 01:16


Vision changes during pregnancy need to be investigated. Your wife and your developing baby are very fortunate that your wife is very healthy. However, that does not exclude the possibility that the vision changes are symptoms of temporary Gestational Diabetes (GD). It is common enough in even healthy mothers, to have a name and a web site. Even though GD is temporary, it is not harmless to either your wife or the baby. If present, it needs to be managed. Fortunately, it is not very hard to do with the modern tools we have.

All your wife needs to do is mention the symptoms to her Obstetrician and ask if it is possible that she is developing Gestational Diabetes. A simple test will give the answer.


Eddy 20 Jun 2015, 18:30

Thanks Cactus,

But she's very healthy besides her eyesight changes there has been no other problems.

Cactus Jack 19 Jun 2015, 16:14

Concerned Mama,

Sorry to be so slow in responding. I have been thinking about your son's situation and I think the advise and suggestions about the school and the administration are good.

In some ways, bullies are really insecure people who are reacting to the same animal instincts that cause well fed predators to kill a crippled animal even if they are not hungry. You mentioned that your son had been promoted ahead of his age group. I have some personal experience with that when I was about your son's age. Advancement to a higher grade has both good and bad elements. The good side is that it recognizes that his mental advancement is ahead of most his age. The bad side is that unless factors other than mental advancement are considered, it can be physically traumatic.

The biggest problem is that it is likely that your son's physical size is smaller than most of the other boys in the school. A secondary problem is that he is very myopic and it is likely that very few children at his grade level understand how vision works and are prone to attack him simply because he is different. Few of them probably realize that they will also need glasses in the nears future, perhaps not as strong, initially, but they will need them.

One of our young members was born without one of the lenses in his eyes and he had to wear very think PLUS glasses like cataract patients used to wear. On top of that he is very cross eyed for several reasons including missing eye muscles. We believe the cause was his mother having Rubella or German Measles during gestation. In other words, nothing he did caused his vision problems. Other than those vision limitations, he is very smart and he had big troubles with bullies in school. One of the problems with wearing very high PLUS glasses is that there is no peripheral vision with them and you can only see things that are directly in front of you.

There were a couple of occasions where a bully sneaked up behind him and removed his glasses and intentionally crushed them. Naturally, action was taken against the bully, but he was essentially blind without his glasses. Surprisingly, not completely, and with the help of other sudents he was able to make arrangement to get a spare pair from home. BTW, his glasses are special and have to be made in Germany at great expense.

The point of relating this story, is that your son may be refusing to wear his glasses to school for fear of having them broken or stolen. He knows he is VERY dependent on his glasses. Hopefully, he has a spare pair and or has a slightly weaker pair that he could wear to school. If that pair got broken or stolen, hopefully, the perpetrator could be found and his parents be required to pay for a new pair of glasses.

One other consideration is that your son should probably not be in that school. If he is exceptional bright, you need to investigate a school for exceptional bright children. That way he would be in a healthier and more challenging environment, possibly with children who are also bright.

Frankly, right now, school is punishment for something he did not do. He may be living in fear of being attacked which is not a healthy place for him.

I hope this helps some. There are solutions. Please keep us informed. If you wish to contact me privately it is


cactus Jack 19 Jun 2015, 15:03


Lots of hormonal changes occur during pregnancy that can cause other changes in the body. If a woman has myopia or is genetically disposed to it, she may experience an increase in Axial Myopia during pregnancy that will not reverse after term. This is believed to be caused by the eyeball growth hormones affecting her, in addition to promoting the growth and development of the fetus' eyes and vision.

In addition, there is a condition called Gestational Diabetes that can, according to the American Diabetes Association, begin to occur around the 24th week of pregnancy. A diagnosis of Gestational Diabetes DOES NOT mean that a person had Diabetes before pregnancy or if they will have it after the pregnancy. Often, Diabetes in any form, will cause increases in Blood Glucose (BG) levels, which will, in turn, cause the Index of Refraction (IR) to increase in the Aqueous Humor and Vitreous Humor in the eye. Axial Myopia is actually caused by a mismatch between the TOTAL PLUS power of the Eye's lens system and the distance from the Crystalline Lens to the Retina. If the IR of the Humors increases, the PLUS power of the Eye's lens system increases and the person become more Myopic. When the BG drops back closer to normal, Myopia also goes back to normal. If Gestational Diabetes is present, it is important to know the BG level during an eye exam. If BG is varying, it may be desirable to have several different powers of glasses to be able to see clearly throughout the day. Don't overlook getting several pair of low cost glasses from Zenni, to use until the the pregnancy has reached term.

I suggest mentioning the problem to her Obstetrician. I don't know where you live, but it is easy and inexpensive to get an BG meter and test strips. Walk-mart offers a ReliOn meter that is fast (5 seconds) and accurate for US$9.00. 50 Test Strips are also US$9.00 or US$0.18 each. The Manufacturer also offers an inexpensive kit for downloading the results to their confidential website for maintaining a log you can print out and take to your doctor to assure good management.

Let us know if we can help. There is a crude test that she can do to get an pretty good idea of her prescription at any time she wants to just using, her glasses, a pair of OTC reading glasses, a book or newspaper and a measuring rule. Let me know if you are interested.

I also suggest checking Gestational Diabetes on Google or other browser.


Andrew 19 Jun 2015, 13:56


They used to do routine eye tests in schools, although they stopped a long time ago. Maybe the parents still thought they did?

Eddy 19 Jun 2015, 12:55

Hello everyone!

My wife continues to have vision problems even after her new prescription, yesterday she was at home watching t.v. and couldn't read the news reel. Her best friend was there and she loaned her glasses witch are -2's and together with her contacts she was able to see clearly. At this point she's worried she'll be over -20 after her pregnancy.

Soundmanpt 17 Jun 2015, 15:06


I'm not sure why you keep saying that you don't want to wear plus glasses? The actual prescription you got is not a plus prescription but is a minus one for distance. Now the distance part is the weakest possible (-.25 / -.25) but better than nothing at least. You also have astigmatism in both eyes which is probably the bigger issue at this time. Now astigmatisms are not pluses either, however they do effect your eyes both for distance as well as close up.

So "svensont" is dead on in suggesting that you should order glasses as R -1.25 -.50 90 / L -1.25 -.50 90.

I am a little bit surprised that they didn't recommend you get glasses where you got your eyes examined. Even though your prescription is quite weak you would notice some difference in your vision if you had got them. But i'm sure your eyes are more than capable of wearing somewhat stronger glasses then you were prescribed. The prescription that svensont and myself are recommending will make a big difference in your vision right away.

yogi 17 Jun 2015, 13:27

do any of you check the specsavers web site

there is a section on it called ask the optician

go to the home page

go to eye health

go to ask the optician

personaly I avoid their optical stores bad inaccurate exams rushed tests and they don't seem to except any mistakes they make

but back to the subject

a new question just posted needs checking out

kid sits to close to the tv and keeps bumping in to things but it still takes a letter from the school to get the mother to take the kid to an optician surprise surprise the kid needs glasses

R -2.75 c-0.75 L -3.50 c-1.25

mother wants to know why as both her and husband 20/20

what I want to know is how she missed it how it got so bad this is not the third world this is the uk we have the NHS glasses are free for kids

she has 20/20 or does she just think she does a recommend she get an eye test

svensont 17 Jun 2015, 08:40


Order something like:

L: -1.25 -0.50 90

R: -1.25 -0.50 90

You should be able to see perfectly, or even better because you have some astigmatism

Ni 17 Jun 2015, 07:29

The card they gave me at the optician -0.25 -0.50 90 -0.25 -0.50 90. I don't want to wear plus glases for distance. How would the best prescription look? I have tried someone's driving glasses on and they didn't do much would they be like -1.00. If you are a little shortsighted will you ever need reading glasses?

Soundmanpt 17 Jun 2015, 05:58


It's very possible that you may be too late in wanting to become truly shortsighted. Generally speaking you have a much better chance if your 18 to 23. But there have been a few that have managed to induce some myopia at your age and even older. But the good news is that it doesn't hurt anything to try. If your really fasinated at the idea of wearing glasses you can easily order glasses on line. Even with your perfect eyesight your eyes shouldn't have any problem tolerating a weak prescription right away. Everyone with perfect vision can see perfect with -.50 glasses and actually see slightly better. So with your desire to wear glasses your eyes should do well with -.75 for sure and probably even -1.00. These prescriptions are not very strong but if any of your friends were to try them they would see that your glasses are very real. By wearing your glasses full time from the time you open your eyes each day until you close them at bedtime should tell you after a few weeks if your eyes becoming shortsighted or not if things are starting to remain slightly blurry after you take your glasses off. Most people think it is the strength of the glasses that will make you shortsighted when in fact it is the constant wearing that will make the difference. Now even if your vision remains perfect when you remove your glasses and you unable to become shortsighted you will still be able to wear your glasses and no one except you will know that you don't really need them.

The best way to start is to go on line to my favorite place, and pick out glasses you want to be seen in and place your order. If you need any help in placing your order, ask and we can guide you. It will take between 10 days and 2 weeks for your glasses to arrive. During that time I suggest that you let your co workers, friends and family know that your getting glasses. This will make it so much easier once your glasses arrive to wear them if they expect to soon be seeing you wearing them. Your name doesn't give any indication if your male or female but Zenni has well over 800 pairs of mens or womens glasses to choose from for under $22.00.

If you can see that after wearing your glasses for a short while that your glasses are having a real effect on your eyesight then of course you want to order another pair and increase the prescription a bit more, that is if you want to wear stronger glasses.

Ni 17 Jun 2015, 04:55

I've had my eyes tested and don't need glasses. what is the best prescription you can have? I don't mind if I was shortsighted because I don't want to wear plus glasses all the time when I'm older. I know people who had perfect eyesight when they were younger then needed plus glasses for reading then all the time. I'm 27 so could I become shortsighted?

TreeTrunk 17 Jun 2015, 01:03

I've gotta ask, I've been thinking a lot about my fascination with glasses, and I think the root of it all is specifically the fact that I'm turned on by people squinting. Does anybody else find this to be the case with themselves or am I alone in the venture?

Soundmanpt 14 Jun 2015, 07:44

Concerned Mama

What is happening to your son is a real shame and that teacher and principle really don't get it. They must not wear glasses themselves or if they do they must be very weak so they are comparing your son's vision to their own. Crystal Veil has point but maybe you should take a spare pair of your sons glasses and go have a nice chat with the teacher and have her try on your sons glasses and ask her how well she can see with them? Maybe even throw her ball and see how well she can see that with his glasses on. Bullying is very serious and need to be stopped or it will continue to get worse.

Without any doubt it is time to call a meeting with both the teacher and the principle and make your point very clear that you want it stopped now.

Crystal Veil 14 Jun 2015, 03:04

Concerned Mama,

if you decide to speak again to the teacher (or even better, to the principle as suggested by astigmaphile), I may have a useful tip for pricipal and / or teacher. Just talking to the bullies is not enough. None of them has a clue what the world looks like (bare eyed) if one has a prescription of minus nine. If each of the bullies was handed a pair of glasses with lenses of +7 and being ordered to walk the playground or the gym, the simple confrontation would be more effective than half an hour's preaching. I work with photo models posing in glasses with high prescriptions. Many models have perfect eyesight and they often comment "I did not know that people with strong prescriptions have such poor eyesight without glasses".

Liv 13 Jun 2015, 18:16

Concerned Mama,

I had a lot of trouble getting my youngest daughter to wear her glasses as well. What me and my husband did was to have a 'glasses positive' attitude- let them know that wearing glasses is normal or cool. Point out sports stars or entertainers who wear glasses. Do you wear glasses yourself? You can point out that he can be like mum/dad.

Another thing I found good was when i signed her up for soccer. She's not very athletic nor was she keen to join but it does make her realise how much glasses help her. She eventually started enjoying it, made some new friends plus going outside to play is never a bad idea!

In the end, I think her eyes ended up being so bad that she hated not being able to see more than the glasses so she started wearing them full-time by herself.

Puffin 13 Jun 2015, 16:05

Carrie, I agree completely with everything you just said.

Carrie 13 Jun 2015, 16:03


I can't imagine the stress and worry you must be going through with your children's eyesight and the bullying of your son clearly makes it worse. All I can offer is my sympathy and to let you know that I am thinking of you, hoping and hoping that everything will turn out right. I'm sure I'm not the only Eyescene reader who wishes you and your children the very best.

concernedmama 13 Jun 2015, 15:28

Thank you for the links - I will discuss them with the team at Moorfields at his next appointment.

My son is 9, going on 10 and is in his last year at primary school (he skipped a year). The bullies are in his same year but are obviously a year older.

His prescription is around -9 but I'll find the exact figures tomorrow.

Any ideas would help - should I insist on seeing the teacher again to explain how poorly he sees without his glasses? Also that they shouldn't be allowing any bullying at all. They call him baby eyes, alien eyes etc - nothing too cruel but at his age it still hurts. They also throw balls at him which his teacher says is trying to get him to join in but they know he can't see what's going on. It's getting worse in that he refused to wear them out to the supermarket earlier and we ended up having a row over it.

I'm at the end of my tether...

Chino 13 Jun 2015, 07:10


I forgot to mention one more thing. These are the glasses I purchased for my experiment:

I went with these because I think the wraparound goggle design will do a better job of preventing regular light from entering my eyes through the edges. This way, my eyes only get exposed to the colored light coming in through the lenses.

Chino 13 Jun 2015, 07:06

Hi ConcernedMama,

I've never had children and am, unfortunately, at a loss as far as helping with advice on bullying.

I have taken the time to read over your previous posts. I may be able to help in another way, with respect to your childrens' myopia.

I recently learned of some research in which it appears to be possible to induce and reverse myopia with colored light. I don't know if this will work on humans, but I plan on starting an experiment early next week to see if I can induce myopia on myself by using red light.

If you're interested in trying this out, it would be a very good idea to share these research papers with Moorfields first.

To reverse myopia, you need to use blue light. Here are the research papers.

I should point out that I am an older adult whose eyes have stopped changing. Even if it does not work for me, there is still the possibility that it may work for children whose eyes are still changing/growing.

My experiment is a little different in that I'm not using colored light. I'm using colored prescription glasses instead. You can get blue tinted prescription glasses from online retailers like zennioptical or optical4less. If you go that route, stick to the solid lens tint and avoid the photochromic and gradient tint lenses.

One other thing to keep in mind is that, if this works, it will probably reverse your childrens' myopia VERY quickly. To avoid overshooting your goal, I highly recommend that you test your childrens' vision (both near and far) daily.

I wish you the best, ConcernedMama. I really hope you're able to find a solution to that bully problem.

astigmaphile 12 Jun 2015, 18:43

Concerned Mama,

Bullying is inexcusable. You need to have a conference with the teacher and the principal. Your son could be seriously by not wearing his glasses. The bullies parents need talking to, as well.

Cactus Jack 12 Jun 2015, 17:30

Hi Concerned Mama,

Nice to hear from you again, but wish it was something easier to deal with than Bullies. Maybe we can help, because many of our members who needed strong glasses at an early age can offer some suggestions.

Kids can be very cruel, but Bullying is not acceptable under any circumstances. One would almost think that the teacher is afraid of the Bullies, also.

Could you refresh our memories a bit about your son. His current age, Grade level in school, and his current prescription.

Also, the age and grade level of the Bullies.


ConcernedMmama 12 Jun 2015, 14:55

Hi everyone

I need some advice again... my son has what has been described as 'galloping myopia' although his sight with his glasses is good (20/30) and much better than his sister's who is visually impaired.

Anyway, there has been some bullying and he is once again refusing to wear glasses at break times at school as well as lunch. This results in a fair few bruised knees and today he came home with a cut forehead from falling over. He gets very upset by the name calling and by the remarks about how bad he is at sport. His teacher seems not to realize how poor his uncorrected vision is so lets him get away with leaving his glasses inside and puts the bullying down to normal boy teasing. She doesn't have to deal with the tears every night...

Any advice would be appreciated.


Puffin 11 Jun 2015, 04:15


I think it was yesterday I saw a young woman, wearing mildish minus glasses, holding their mobile phone very close (6-8 inches).

Although I did think for a moment that she was peeking over the top (mainly due to the angle I was watching her) but that seemed unlikely: she'd be trying to look through her black plastic frames (huh?)

Exactly what to make of that, I'm not sure. Those letters on phones aren't that small really.

Likelenses 10 Jun 2015, 23:56


Cheryl was wearing her regular prescription that day,and she was looking, as she always does, through the lower segment of her bifocals.

I have in the past commented on her reading so close ,and she say that when she hold things farther away that they are just small enough to make it seem not right.She says the images are clear,but not large enough for her liking.

She did admit that she remembers that when she got her first glasses,if she tried to read with them on,that she had a strong urge to push the reading material farther away,but then the letters seemed too small, so she just continued to read at the distance that she did before the glasses. She admits that it is a habit.

She now wonders though if she had worn her first pairs full time,and held close work farther,if her prescription would be much less.

I actually find her charming when she peers at close work as she does.

Likelenses 10 Jun 2015, 23:41


The point that the doctor was making is that the myopic eye has too much plus power,so before a person gets their first glasses,they usually hold reading material too close,and are seeing a larger than actual image. Then when the first pair of glasses are worn,the reading material looks much smaller to their eyes,so they compensate by bringing the reading material closer,and that is what causes the near point stress.

He said that the old school method of having the patient wear the glasses full time from day one,and discipline to hold close work at no closer than twelve inches,resulted in most myopes having weaker glasses in their later years.

He did acknowledge that genes have some do do with final prescriptions,but in his life of practice he saw much lower prescriptions for those patients that followed the old school ways.

Soundmanpt 10 Jun 2015, 16:03


What this retired doctor had to say is clearly correct. Now I seem to recall you saying that you ordered your girlfriend Cheryl's glasses slightly stronger than her prescription called for and that with her glasses her she is able to see 20/15. Now after this gentleman pointed out about her holding her phone so close to her eyes did Cheryl then drop in down to where it was closer to 12" away from her eyes? It makes me wonder if she was actually reading her phone through the upper segment of her glasses instead of the reading add. Otherwise could it be that she needs a stronger reading add already? Did you ask Cheryl why she holds her phone so close when she has glasses that should make seeing her phone rather easy?

I'm sure that like me you have noticed how many young people, mostly females hold their phones very close to their eyes. Much closer than they should need to. I can't help but think that it won't be long before they will be wearing glasses and maybe they have glasses already and just don't want to wear them?

??? 10 Jun 2015, 15:38

Has anyone tried those new online eye exams? I hear they are surprisingly accurate but I just would like to know what exactly the procedure is.

Puffin 10 Jun 2015, 02:07


Interesting conversation, but "near point stress" does not vanish because the wearer isn't myopic any more. The near point where the stress occurs just goes further away.

And also, is it not the case that for some progressive myopia, bifocals are suggested in order to slow down the myopia? These would tend to bring the near point back closer.

Perhaps it is just as well there is the internet these days to check advice. I don't think there's a blanket instruction that will prevent higher myopia - especially where the cause is genetic.

Likelenses 09 Jun 2015, 20:28

Over the weekend my high myopic girlfriend Cheryl,and myself attended an outing.

After the dinner portion we were talking to various people.As other people left our table a new couple sat down next to Cheryl.They were in their late seventies,and both wore low minus bifocals.

When Cheryl reads ,she holds the material quite close to her eyes,even with her new bifocals. The elderly couple were talking about their family,and proceeded to show Cheryl some photos.. When the man saw her holding them so close he commented that," holding near things so close is part of the reason that, you are quite myopic ".

He went on to tell us that he is a retired optometrist,and was in practice from 1960,until 2010.He said that when he was in optometry school,and through the early days of practice,that whenever anyone was found to be myopic that the standard procedure was to prescribe glasses,and tell the patient that they needed to wear them all the time,and that the optometrist would tell the patient to pay close attention to their reading distance.He said that a new myope can adapt quickly,and the new glasses will help,as the new myope will be uncomfortable holding the work,at the distance that they are used to.

He went on to say that in the late seventies the new thought was to let the patient decide what uses they wanted to use the new glasses for,and the doctors began to emphasize use more for distance,for new wearers.

When this began he started to see more rapid progression,and higher prescription,and patients that could not read unless they held things close.He said that almost all of his patients that were given their first glasses,and wore them constantly,and abided by his reading instructions never had a prescription much higher than -5.00,but patients that came to him during that period that were prescribed glasses by other doctors,and had only worn the first few prescription for distance,were locked in to and unable to read at the proper reading distance,and he found that these patients eventually wound up with higher prescriptions,often into double digits.

He ask both of us whether we were told to wear our first glasses all of the time,and if we were instructed to hold our reading material at no closer than twelve inches.Neither Cheryl,or I were given any such instructions.

He said that the optometrist industry has done a huge disservice to its patients from the 1970's to the present.

Being myopic by its very nature makes the person habitually hold near work too close,and when given a first prescription if it is worn for reading will relieve near point stress,if the work is held at the proper distance. If not tHen this near point stress will help to drive toward higher prescriptions.

Cheryl was a bit taken back by this whole conversation,but the optometrist,and I hit it off quite well.

I ask him if a prescription of as small as -.5 should be worn full time,and he said absolutely yes.

I tend to agree with what he had to say

Chino 09 Jun 2015, 19:18

Hi KL,

I was able to read the entire article, and now have a better understanding of what's going on here.

It may seem counter to what you've seen, but in this case the eyeball does indeed 'ungrow.' Overall axial length doesn't change very much. What changes significantly is the vitreous chamber depth (the part of the eye between the lens and retina). When under blue light, vitreous chamber length decreased dramatically.

Yes, I do think other approaches might work. Actually, my goggles experiment is the wildcard. The experiments in those studies didn't use goggles. The experiments themselves were done with colored light sources. Flashing lights seem to be even more effective, at least for inducing myopia. They didn't use flashing blue lights in that experiment.

I think covering lamps with red/blue plastic could work, and I think colored bulbs would work as well. The only reason I opted for the goggles is because I don't live alone. The goggles make it easier for me to control the color of light that makes it to my eyes without having to alter my surroundings. It would also work when I leave the house.

I do plan on buying a red light strobe that I can use when I'm by myself.

I'm an older adult, and my eyes haven't changed in years. If the red lenses work on me, I'm pretty sure blue light would work for you.

If this works for us at all, then I think the only thing that treatment duration will affect is the rate at which changes occur. In that case, five hours would still give you results. It would just take longer to achieve your goal. This may not be the case, but if we assume that refraction changes at the same rate for humans as it did for the chicks, 5 hours of treatment per day would still give you about +2.05D of hyperopia per month.

If this works, I'll give the same suggestion I gave to Nicola. If you're goal is to eliminate your spherical refractive error, make sure to check your vision daily or you could easily overshoot your goal.

I'm in Puerto Rico right now, but am returning to Florida tomorrow. I'll order that red strobe light as soon as I get back home.

Man, I really hope this works. If it doesn't, I'll have to get an IOL if I want to induce more myopia. I don't like wearing contacts, so GOC isn't an option for me.

KL 09 Jun 2015, 16:37

Chino, Cactus Jack, and anyone else who feels like chiming in…

I've been thinking about the red or blue light inducing myopia or hyperopia in animal studies. I've read the abstracts of the linked articles, and didn't see this part explained: just how does the hyperopia develop? Related to that, how can they reverse induced myopia? This seems to be counter to everything I've seen so far - i.e. the eyeball can't 'ungrow'. I did see something about the lens composition in one article - is that it? But then, another one talked about how the myopia at least was axial in nature. So now I'm both confused and intrigued.

Chino - I'm looking forward to following your experiment.

I wonder if there are other approaches than goggles that might work, like covering lamps in translucent red/blue plastic (heat from bulbs aside - wouldn't want a fire, just pondering). Or colored bulbs, obviously - easier if you live alone, I imagine.

Personally I'd want to try the opposite of what Chino is planning. I've been nearsighted for 25 years, and I'm sick of it. I still *like* glasses, but I'm sick of *needing* them. Does that even make any sense? Also I've become generally disenchanted with minus lenses. (I know that's like anathema around here, but some of us like plus more than minus.)

Whatever approach I might try, I'd only have five hours a day available at the most to devote to it. I wonder if 1) I'm too old to make any change in either direction, and 2) if less time spent pr day means it'll take longer to see a difference, or if it just won't work at all.

Any input, speculation or ruminations are most appreciated.

SC 09 Jun 2015, 11:49


I should add that I work in IT and have spent most of the day in front of screen since 1986. Small print went first - I didn't wear glasses for screen until I'd been wearing for some months for reading so that won't be the trigger for getting glasses (I guess)

SC 09 Jun 2015, 11:47


How do you know your prescription? I would have expected your eyes to accommodate automatically.

I didn't know I had hyperopia - I needed reading glasses @42 and now my Rx is +1.5. My mother needed reading glasses @40 and is now +2.25.

So if you remain best eye +1.5 then I guess you will survive until about 41/42 and then you'll need readers and I guess that bi-focals/progressives would follow - I went full-time @46

Of course I had no idea, even when I got eyes tested @44 it showed no hyperopia so I'd imagine that you could be +1.5 or +3.5 and so your need for readers could come much sooner

Soundmanpt 09 Jun 2015, 06:45


There is no one answer to when you may start to feel the need for glasses. The reason is simple, a lot has to do with how you use your eyes on a daily basis. The more you strain your eyes doing more and more close work the sooner your eyes will start to give out and you will be need glasses. But if you don't do very much close work and only read as for your own enjoyment chances are it may be several years at least before you might need them. Also your younger age comes into play as well.

I have told this before. The young lady that cuts what hair I still have told me that when she had her last eye exam she was told that like you she actually had a prescription not much different than yours. I believe she was +1.00 / +1.25. She was really surprised to be told that because she had no problems with reading the smallest lines on the card. Her doctor told her to enjoy it while it lasts because even though she doesn't need glasses yet, at some point she will. She did admit that since she was told that notices that she can no longer read for long periods anymore before her eyes start to bother her. She said that if her job was working in an office where she was doing a lot of close work she would have to start wearing glasses.

Chino 09 Jun 2015, 05:59

Oh Nicola, here are the goggles I was talking about:

Chino 09 Jun 2015, 05:58

Hi Nicola,

How old are you? Since your eyes are still changing, I'm guessing you're younger than 25.

The reason I ask is because there may be a way to reverse your shortsightedness. I've been reading some research on a way to induce myopia and hyperopia in chicks and guinea pigs. I don't know if it works on humans but, if you want to get rid of your glasses, I think it's worth a shot. Since your eyes are still changing, I think it has a better chance of working on you than on an older adult like me.

To reverse your shortsightedness, you need to use blue-tinted eyeglasses and wear them about 12 hours per day (that's what they did in the experiment). Don't get the blue photochromic or gradient lenses. Stick to the solid blue lens tint. You can get these at either or I recommend optical4less because they have some goggles that would do a good job of keeping normal light from entering your eyes through the sides of your glasses.

If you do this, make sure to check your eyesight VERY frequently. This technique induced +4.21D of farsightedness in only 21 days. If it works that fast in humans, it would be very easy to overdo it and make yourself farsighted. It might be a good idea to get an eye chart and set it up at the correct distance with good lighting. To be safe, check your vision with the eye chart DAILY.

From what I've read, this should work even if you wear your normal prescription. Lenses did not suppress the effects of the colored light.

Here is the research behind this technique.

I'm actually going to be trying the technique myself, but I want to induce more shortsightedness. For that, I need to use red tinted lenses. Here are the goggles I was talking about:

Best of luck to you, Nicola. I really hope this works for you.

All the best,


P.S. To answer your question, yes, I did think that I would always have to wear glasses after getting them. I actually hoped that I would. I love being shortsighted :)

miku 09 Jun 2015, 05:28

Hi all,

I've shared part of this information before before. I am hyperopic and have a rough Rx of +1.50 (R) and +2 (L). Being in my early 20s I don't find it hard to manage without corrective eyewear and don't really notice eye strain. That is why I don't wear glasses.

What is of interest to me is when should I expect to notice presbyopia kicking in, given my eyes' natural tendency of being longsighted? (I do realise the presbyopia starts evolving since childhood).

Thanks guys!

Likelenses 09 Jun 2015, 01:05


What was your prescription a few years ago,when you got your first pair,and what is it now?

My lenses are -10.5 for each eye.

Nicola 08 Jun 2015, 16:06

Why do I bother going to the opticians all the time i find out I'm more shorsighted. I always thought it was a good thing to go to the opticians for a yearly eyetest but now I'm not sure. My eyes are messed up without glasses and contacts a few years ago I could see normal. Did you think you would always have to wear glasses after getting them I didnt..

Soundmanpt 07 Jun 2015, 17:53

Very progressive

Since your eyes are already adjusted to the stronger distance prescription anyway and the change is only -.25 your vision is still going to be very good with being very slightly over corrected. So really the only change was your astigmatism and again it so small I doubt that you would even be able to tell any difference. Also astigmatisms can fluctuate so your next eye exam it could go back at -.50. Hardly worth the cot of new bifocals from a local shop. It certainly doesn't seem enough of a change to warrant spending several hundred dollars for new glasses. Have you considered ever ordering your glasses on line? If not this time but in the future you should take a good look into getting your glasses from Zenni. ( for lined bifocals you can find several hundred for less than $45.00 and progressives for less than $55.00. It certainly is a better deal than your local optical shop.

Very progressive 07 Jun 2015, 15:02

I just had a prescription change from -1.50 in my distance to -1.25 in my right eye. The add remained the same at 2.50. My astigmatism in my left eye went from -50 to -.75. Is it worth getting new lenses?

Very progressive 07 Jun 2015, 15:02

I just had a prescription change from -1.50 in my distance to -1.25 in my right eye. The add remained the same at 2.50. My astigmatism in my left eye went from -50 to -.75. Is it worth getting new lenses?

Michael 22 May 2015, 08:10

Good question Joseph because for me the reading add is always the same for both eyes even though the distance and astigmatism scripts for each eye might be different. Not sure why so I will have to leave it to the experts here to answer my question.But come to think of it for me too they check my close up vision with both eyes together instead of each one individually.

Joseph 22 May 2015, 07:12

I went for an eye exam because my arms have been getting shorter. The dr put the machine with the lenses in front of me and then blocked one eye and flipped lenses many times until the right one was found. Then did this procedure again for my other eye. Then he put a card on a stick in front of me and flipped the lenses (together)until the smallest lines were clear. Now that I think about it, I am curious to know why each eye was checked so carefully for distance, but for the close part it seemed like a 15 second check with both eyes together?

Likelenses 21 May 2015, 21:25


You are in a very small segment of the world population of women that get to wear such sexy glasses.

Wear um with pride !

guest 21 May 2015, 07:53

she was from the 80's lol

ellen has my address if she wants

 21 May 2015, 07:43

And since you seem to have a girlfriend already, ask her about crossing the pond!

 21 May 2015, 06:43


You only need to hit the submit tab once!

guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


guest 21 May 2015, 05:46

Morning Ellen....

Well, you realize that...and it is special. Many years ago, my -19 g/f was afraid to admit it-even though she did admit that when she first saw me - what attracted her to me was the reflection, power rings and lenses sticking out the backs of the frames (it was 1979). (I admit I felt the same) Of course, after that she fell in love with the rest of me lol... Her mom (-10)always joked that kids would come out with telescopes on lol.

When are you crossing the pond??


Ellen 21 May 2015, 02:11

Oh absolutely Likelenses! That's why you see so many models and film stars wearing them these days!

Likelenses 20 May 2015, 21:12


Bet you look sexy in those bio's

Ellen 20 May 2015, 08:54

Hi guest

The biconcaves are fine, they give me pretty good vision. I forgot they were biconcave to be honest. To me they are just vision providing lenses. I don't think anyone else notices that they look different on me in any way.

Funny you should mention your -17 friend. My ex had a -10 prescription and I found that being together without our glasses fostered a heightened level of intimacy as we had to get so close and the rest of the world was all but invisible to us. See, there are advantages to be gained from severe myopia!

Soundmanpt 17 May 2015, 15:33


First of all the 3 prescriptions she has been given are all really close with only a very slight increase in the last one. clearly the biggest problem seems to be that she just doesn't want to be seen wearing glasses. Her eyesight isn't all that bad but it is enough that glasses will make a difference in how she is able to see things. She is not hurting her eyes by not wearing her glasses because her eyes are probably going to change a few more times before they get stable. By that time she probably will be at the point where she will need to wear her glasses full time or be very limited at what she will be able to see without them. If she is that much against wearing glasses her only other option is contacts lenses. But she needs to remember that she will still need glasses so she can rest her eyes from them every so often or in case there might be some days where her eyes refuse to wear contacts. Wearing contacts is really the same as wearing glasses full time so she will soon find that her eyes will be somewhat dependent on either her contacts or glasses to see.

You should be more supportive of her if she does decide to wear her glasses in the evening. She is still the same attractive young lady you care about except now she needs to wear glasses. I'm sure there will still be times when you will get the chance to see her without her glasses.

jason 17 May 2015, 11:44

Hi. My gf is 22 years old. Last year she told me she is having difficulties in precieving words of the class room white board even from the middle. And every day she is having headaches in the afternoon.

First when we check doctr gave

L -1.00 -0.50 60

R -1.00 -0.50 170 didnt use glasses much

After 6 mnths we went as per doctr.It was

L -0.75 -0.75 60

R -1.00 -0.50 160

Again after 6 mnths she is teling blur is more than previous and couldnt read any thng in the fast f00d resturants as s00n as she put her glasses though.After few mnts she can

then we went again to sheduled eye exam after 6 mnths.

without glasses she couldn't read the 3rd line of eye chart. Secnd was also dificult. With glases last 2 lines was fuzzy.

Doctrs prescriptin was

L -0.75 -1.00 60

R -1.25 -0.50 180

She is cute girl who doesnt like to wear glasses. Bt nw she put them as s00n as you get out the bed and at night she fell sleep with glases on. When going out she dsnt like to where in the morning bt when she is cming back galases in the face.

Bt the thng is i have some night parties cming up and also some wddings. I dnt want to see her with glasses. Please let me knw how her eye sight without glases and why it is increasing like this. Even her family doesnt wear glassen. I need advices guys and girls.

Thank u

guest 14 May 2015, 15:41

Hi Ellen

Stay with us more often!

How are the biconcave's working out...

I have a ladyfriend (-17) who would love to be your next partner !

guest 14 May 2015, 15:39

Hi Ellen

Stay with us for a while... How are the biconcave's doing????

Ellen 14 May 2015, 14:46

Hi And

My last prescription was right eye -19.25 -4.75 170, left eye -18.75 -4.25 150.

And 14 May 2015, 13:44

Ellen, remind us of your prescription pls. My gf has a pair of glasses in the bedside drawer and carries a pair with her in her handbag even though she always wears contacts. She shares your fear of being without correction.

Ellen 14 May 2015, 07:53

I've been running for a couple of weeks now. I had my eyes checked, they're pretty healthy and I shouldn't have any problems doing strenuous exercise. Impacts are still very much to be avoided though, although I guess this is the case for everyone so I'm not looking to take up any contact sports. The guy who checked my eyes said with a smile on his face that they're perfect in every way apart from the fact that they're about 6mm too long!

Running is hard, I'm really not built for it. I've been six times so far, only very short distances but it has got a little easier the last two or three times. I've lost around 5lbs in the last few weeks too. My glasses aren't a problem really (in fact I've found my boobs are the main issue, they don't want to stay put as I jog along which can be quite uncomfortable). I've been wearing an old small metal frame which clings to my face satisfactorily when I run. My prescription hasn't changed a great deal over the last ten years so I see fine with them.

guest 4u 14 May 2015, 04:03

Hi Ellen

We have all been in your situation...or most of us.

When are you crossing the pond....and bring extra glasses lol. Are you going to start running...I advise against but have treadmill in house-that's better.


guest 4u 14 May 2015, 04:03

Hi Ellen

We have all been in your situation...or most of us.

When are you crossing the pond....and bring extra glasses lol. Are you going to start running...I advise against but have treadmill in house-that's better.


Ellen 14 May 2015, 03:09

I lost my glasses this morning. Not for long, I have them back now but now that I live alone I don't have anyone around to call to come and find them for me so it took me a while to locate them. It wasn't a frightening experience, more frustrating. I mean I knew roughly where they were and I have spares in very defined places that even I can find my way to in an emergency but as I say it was frustrating that something so simple should be denied to me because my eyes just won't do what I ask of them. It brought back those fears that have always lurked in the back of my mind over what I would do in a situation where my glasses aren't retrievable or spares available. Fortunately this has never happened but that nagging feeling is always there that it will someday. Of course I appreciate that I'm lucky in that my vision is correctable and I just can't possibly conceive what it must be like to be blind and permanently in the situation I was briefly in this morning. I'm very thankful that I have glasses and they're so freely available.

Likelenses 12 May 2015, 20:18


Minus 4. would be close to average.

As for what point are you unable to find your glasses,I Would say minus 6 for me ,and at 10.5 now it is a fact of life.

A number of years ago,a girl that I was dating had just gotten her third prescription ,and was talking to a friend of mines wife,who wore probably minus sevens. She told my GF that when you can not see your own feet without glasses,is when you have a strong Rx.

A number of years later,I ran into the old GF,and she was wearing thick lenses,that were about minus 8,and I thought now you can not see your feet without glasses.

Puffin 06 May 2015, 16:59


I see most things have been said here already but it's obvious your "visual system" - ie not just the eyes - are very used to seeing clearly and everything looks very strange without.

About people who go without correction with various strengths, it does depend on what they are doing with their eyes: generally seeing close up is not normally a big problem unless the myopia is very high, but seeing in the distance, when you can't easily get closer, well as you can no doubt guess that's not so easy.

Regarding other people's comments - I would think they would get used to seeing you in glasses pretty quickly. If they don't, well that's their problem.

Keep on truckin'

Soundmanpt 06 May 2015, 10:23


You've been wearing your glasses now for over 2 weeks because of running out of contacts. By now I would think you would have gotten a fresh supply of contacts in. You were quite reluctant to wear glasses when you ran out and even seemed to have some trouble with your eyes adjusting to the difference between contacts and glasses. Because you had most people you know thinking that your vision was perfect they of course probably were a little bit surprised to see you wearing glasses for the first time. If you think about it when any of your friends have popped up wearing glasses for the first time weren't you a bit surprised. But the nice thing is that the surprise lasts such a short time and hardly anyone pays any attention that your now wearing glasses. You have to admit that wearing glasses is a lot easier than dealing with contacts. It almost seems like your finding that wearing glasses isn't really so bad. I'm sure you must have appreciated all the the complements you got when everyone started seeing you wearing glasses, what woman doesn't like getting a complement? By now you should be getting more used to seeing yourself wearing glasses and they should be pretty comfortable as well.

There is no absolute as to at what point you start to feel blind without your glasses. Every one's eyes are different and their ability to tolerate blur is very different as well. So there are some that claim they can go without glasses that are -5.00 or more. Others may feel they can't function at -2.00. I think it really comes down to your own ability to see without your glasses. Wearing glasses is no longer a flaw and your glasses should look very nice on you because your prescription isn't so strong to cause your lenses to be very thick or to even change how your eyes look behind your lenses.

Naomi 06 May 2015, 09:49

It's a terrible thing getting shortsighted and having to wear glasses to see. Yes I was straining and could feel a constant headace I was also caught squinting and got told to get my eyes tested which was not nice. Once I was wearing glasses and contacts it was great I could see and no more straining. I got use to wearing glasses and contacts all the time so now I can't go back to be without wearing them. Once you get glasses you will always have to wear them everyday is a big change. It must be bad for people that are shortsighted and don't have glasses I was worried because at which prescription are you blind without glasses like when you have to feel to find your glasses? Yes I was told -4.00 was the average prescription so I still have a bit to go

Crystal Veil 03 May 2015, 11:27

Eddy & Soundmanpt,

at least two of my models developed irreversible myopia during pregnancy. Jolien has a mild minus prescription and she got -0.50 extra after the baby was born. Farishta had a prescription of minus six when she first posed for me. Her daughter was born two years ago. Two weeks ago, Farishta did another photo shoot for me and she told me that she had a couple of increases in her contact lens prescription after becoming a mother. When she posed in many Zenni glasses with -8.00 lenses, she commented that these glasses gave her perfect eyesight. She will get her prescription for glasses soon so that I can order her a couple of free pairs. My guess is that she is now at least minus seven. I hope to post the new photo shoot with Farishta soon.

Soundmanpt 03 May 2015, 10:38

I am currently going to therapy 3 days a week for a bad knee. One of the young therapist is very pregnant and is due within the month. There is a TV on the wall and I happened to notice her squinting to see it as she was working on my knee. I asked her if she was having trouble seeing the TV and she smiled at me and said "you noticed me squinting didn't you?" I said I did, She said she thought she might need glasses. I asked her if see was having any vision problems before she got pregnant? She said her vision has always been perfect until very recently. I told her that becoming pregnant has most likely made her nearsighted. She said but after she has the baby she thinks her vision should go back to normal. I told her that wasn't likely to happen and that she will continue to be nearsighted. She seemed a bit surprised. I told her she should get her eyes examined after she has the baby so she can get some glasses. Her co worker was listening and told her that I was right. She said her eyes changed when she had her baby. I will be doing several follow ups in the coming months so I expect when she returns from from maternity leave she will be wearing glasses.

Soundmanpt 03 May 2015, 10:18


For her vision to change so much in just 5 months I would have to say that her being pregnant was in fact the reason. Usually optometrists are reluctant to do an eye exam on a pregnant woman, but in extreme cases such as your wife's they have no choice. Sadly her glasses were only 5 months old and if she had gone after 3 months of having her glasses most optical stores will replace the lenses at no charge. She still has 5 months left during her pregnancy so I would not be at all surprised for her vision to change again. So she probably should get her eyes checked again in just less then 3 months so her lenses won't cost you.

Eddy 03 May 2015, 08:45

My 4month pregnant wife had her last eye exam 5 months ago and her contacts prescription was -11L and -12.5R last week we where watching a movie with subtitles and she couldn't read them. On Friday she went to the eye doctor and received an almost -2 increase in both eyes. Can the increase in less than 6 months be attributed to her pregnancy? Her new contanct lens prescription is:-13L and -14R. Her insurance only covers contacts or glasses so its an additional expense.


And 03 May 2015, 03:59

Naomi, my gf has -7.50 contacts so can't see a lot without them, however she sleep and showers without them and once they are in she sees 20/20 all day so don't worry too much.

Soundmanpt 01 May 2015, 11:46


First of all welcome. It's always nice to see someone new come on board. I assume you mean the SPH was -.50 in both eyes but you also have a -.50 for astigmatism in your left eye?

It's a very weak prescription so it isn't going to make a huge difference in your vision. Actually about the same as a TV with HDV and one without. typically finding that they seem to make a bit more of a difference driving at night is about what you should notice. Because it has only been 6 months since you got your eye exam and glasses it is possible that your eyes have changed somewhat. But I think your eyes are mostly just getting more used to the glasses.

Newcommer 01 May 2015, 10:58

I was searching on line for an answer to my question and found this site. I am looking for info about the following...

About 6 months ago I got first time glasses. The dr said I could use some help with distance and prescribed -0.50 with .50 astigmatism in my left eye. I didn't use them much because they didn't make much of a difference. I started using them a bit at night, as I found they helped, and a bit more during the day, although the difference was minor. Now I find the more I wear them, the more difficult it is to see print in the distance without them. Is there a way to know if that is because I am getting more used to them or because my eyesight is actually worse? Do I need another exam now..could there be such a noticeable deterioration in just a few months. They used to be very optional, but I've come to rely on them more and that reversible? As someone new to glasses I don't know what to make of this. I am 26. Thanks.

Soundmanpt 01 May 2015, 09:21


Because you never even started wearing glasses until you were 22 years old makes a lot of difference then say you were in your mid teen years. But you didn't even start wearing glasses until most are close to the age where their vision is becoming stable. For that reason I really don't think your eyes are going to change all that much. When you got your first glasses your eyes were strained and not at all relaxed so this usually causes your eyes to be under corrected. So even though you probably weren't wearing your glasses as much as you should have it was still enough to relax your eyes so that your next eye exam was more accurate. So not surprising at all that you needed a fairly decent increase in your prescription. You might need some small increases over the next couple of years and that will be it. So I really don''t think you will reach -4.50. But if you think about it now that your wearing glasses and contacts full time anyway what difference does it make if they are -2.50 or -4.50? I assume you mean how well you would be able to see without your glasses? Without your -2.50 glasses things probably start to get pretty blurry at around 5 or 6 feet away. Without -4.50 glasses you probably couldn't see more than 2 - 3 feet away. In the optical world -4.50 glasses is still considered to be moderate and -7.00 is considered to be strong.

Even though you weren't exactly happy about having to wear your glasses when you were out of contacts don't you enjoy how easy it is to just put your glasses on an go compared to the time it takes inserting contacts. Also when your wearing glasses you can even get away with using less eye makeup.

Naomi 30 Apr 2015, 13:36

Oh no hope it dosnt get as bad as -4.50 I have been told -.5.00 is really bad. Yes people did talk about glasses and was surprised to find out who is also shortsighted. it's not that bad wearing glasses out in public it's easier than wearing contacts so I might wear them more now. But it's strange from not wearing glasses to needing glasses all the time Guess it's a sign of getting older.

Likelenses 26 Apr 2015, 17:55


Minus 2.50 glasses are moderately strong.

Your vision with out them would give you about 20/200 vision,which would mean that you would only be able to see the big E on most eye charts.

Since your myopia came on later in life your prescription will most likely get nu worse than minus 4.50.

Soundmanpt 26 Apr 2015, 12:26


You really didn't do anything wrong and you didn't do anything to make yourself more nearsighted. Like I said your first prescription was weak enough that you didn't really need to wear glasses full time so wearing them only when you wanted to was okay. But your eyes were still changing and with an increase in your prescription you needed to start wearing your glasses more often or get contacts. When you started wearing contacts on a daily basis your eyes were bound to get much more reliant on either contacts or glasses to see clearly. Your vision without your glasses isn't really that bad but it isn't real good either. Your certainly at a point where you should be wearing either contacts or your glasses full time.

Of course you were going to get comments when you started wearing your glasses in public and most had never seen you wearing glasses before. But even though you didn't say I bet it was only complements that you heard? Now that nearly everyone has seen you wearing glasses nothing more will be made about you wearing glasses. So you should start to feel much more comfortable about having your glasses on, not to mention that your eyes could probably use the rest from them as well. Now that everyone knows you don't have perfect vision and wear glasses you really should make a habit of wearing your glasses a little more often anyway.

Naomi 26 Apr 2015, 06:03

Yes when I first got glasses I didn't wear them much but I could see the difference. I didn't want to wear glasses but the opticians said I should and I knew I needed to when my eyes changed so that when I got contacts. Wearing contacts for the first time was great could see so clear and I just felt better. I was worrying last week when I couldnt see, what have I done to my eyes? I should never of started wearing contact lenses. Now I'm shortsighted and have to wear glasses is -2.50 that bad? Haha yes people did notice me with glasses why is it a big thing

Soundmanpt 23 Apr 2015, 07:06


So you didn't start becoming nearsighted until a bit later in life. So you didn't say what your first glasses prescription was, but if your first contacts were -1.75 I would think they were probably around -1.00. That was enough that you probably needed them for driving and seeing things at a distance. But not to where you needed them full time yet. But once the eyes change it usually does take several changes in prescription before the eyes get stable. So it would be expected that by the end of the first year of wearing glasses that you would need an increase. This was I assume when you decided to start wearing contacts because you finding that you were needing your glasses much more than before. Generally speaking, not everyone, but many will start wearing their glasses full time once their prescription reaches -1.50. So if you hadn't gotten contacts you would have still likely been wearing your glasses full time. Once you start wearing glasses / contacts full time you usually aren't as able to go without correction anymore. Many call this being dependent, but really your eyes have just gotten used to seeing through corrective lenses all the time and now without those lenses in front of them things are going to be blurry.

Running out of contacts really wasn't that bad really. Your eyes probably needed a break for the contacts anyway. Now that you have been forced to wear glasses the past few days and you found out it really wasn't so bad once your eyes got used to the glasses you should plan on wearing your glasses more often now. I'm sure all those that were surprised to see you wearing glasses had nothing but complements for you.

Naomi 22 Apr 2015, 18:44

Hello, Im 24 and I got first glasses 2 years ago. Been wearing contacts for 1 year full time. My contact lens prescription changed from -1.75 and now -2.50. Had to wear my glasses all day the last 2 days which surprising was ok. I noticed how bad my vision was so had no choice but to wear glasses out, was nervous because not many people have seen me wearing glasses. I did think about trying to go without but couldn't. Felt dizzy the first night wearing them out

Likelenses 20 Apr 2015, 22:12


While -2.50 is not a terribly strong prescription,if you have been wearing it full time ,to be without can be challenging.

How long have you had glasses,or contacts,and what is your present age? Also when did you begin full time wear,what kind of work do you do?

Naomi 20 Apr 2015, 15:46

They have no glasses how can they can they go if they are shortsighted? I was thinking of not wearing glasses tomorrow but I can't be without. I've been getting use to them tonight. just hope the next few days go ok.. Amazing how ive got use to putting contact lenses in and not thinking. I'm surprised how bad my eyes have got now at -2.50 such a blur when I take the glasses off.

Naomi 20 Apr 2015, 15:46

They have no glasses how can they can they go if they are shortsighted? I was thinking of not wearing glasses tomorrow but I can't be without. I've been getting use to them tonight. just hope the next few days go ok.. Amazing how ive got use to putting contact lenses in and not thinking. I'm surprised how bad my eyes have got now at -2.50 such a blur when I take the glasses off.

Soundmanpt 20 Apr 2015, 15:28


You will be just fine. Your eyes just need to adjust to wearing glasses. So clearly you must never wear your glasses? You really need to be giving your eyes a break from contacts, and the only way you can do that is to take them out and wear glasses in the evening and weekends. Also if you start doing that your eyes will function much better when you really need to wear your glasses. But I am at least happy that you have glasses to wear, many don't even have that and when they get an eye infection they are really in a big mess.

Naomi 20 Apr 2015, 14:39

I just noticed I've ran out of contact lenses they are -2.50. I know it's not that bad shortsighted but everything is a blur. I've just been wearing my glasses the last few hours and I felt dizzy when wearing them I know they are the right prescription so why would I feel strange wearing them, I never wear glasses so not sure what to do until I get new contacts. Im going to have to wear the glasses I guess so is not a blur. How did my eyes get like this feel so blind?

Soundmanpt 18 Apr 2015, 08:54


I took note that you said you are slightly longsighted, that is the reason I was suggesting such a weak minus prescription to try. If you see close fine then wearing a weak minus shouldn't be a big problem for you.

It seems the much bigger problem is your fear of being seen wearing glasses and I can't do much to help you with that. You just need to understand that if you want something bad enough you will manage to work through the fear factor. Take notice of how many people you know and see that wears glasses and they all had to go though that first day of wearing glasses at some point too. Trust me your wearing glasses will only be a hot topic around your office for maybe half a day and then you will be old news.

Your other option would be to order a pair of +.50 glasses if you don't want to try the minus glasses.

Confused 18 Apr 2015, 08:13

Cheers Soundmanpt,

That is quite a sensible argument you made there. However, is there any point in attempting to wear a minus prescription when I know that despite my very clear vision, I am in fact hyperopic?

And then it all makes sense when having the conversation, but overcoming my self-consciousness is a totally different story. I'm a bit of a hypocrite that way, as I advise others to wear their glasses (mostly due to my own fetish), but wouldn't do it myself.

Thanks again

Soundmanpt 18 Apr 2015, 08:01


Chances are your probably right in saying that you are likely a few years too old to really induce any myopia. But everyone is different and so are their eyes so for many or most becoming myopic in their mid 20's may be too late, but there are others that might still be able induce some myopia with enough effort. But the only way you will ever know for sure is to try. I would suggest that you go on line to and pick out a nice pair of glasses that suits you. They have a handy little thing where you can post your picture and try on the glasses to see how they look on you. Now you don't want to start out too aggressive so with your natural vision being 20/15 you should start with either -.50 or -.75 lenses. Even with your better than perfect vision your eyes should be very able to tolerate either of these prescriptions. The main thing isn't seeing how strong you can make the glasses but it is critical that you wear your glasses from the time you open your eyes each morning until you close them at night. Part time wear won't do anything to induce myopia. Now after a month or 2 of constant wear you should be able to tell if your glasses are having any real effect on your vision. But if you find that your vision is still perfect without glasses don't be too disappointed because even if your natural vision hasn't been changed you can still continue wearing your glasses. Remember you would be the only one that would know that you don't really glasses. But you first have to get over being shy about wearing glasses. So when your glasses arrive you should probably take a short road trip somewhere far enough that no one will know you and then wear your glasses all weekend so you get used to them and so your eyes can start adjusting to them. Then on Monday wear them to work. Trust me you will only get tons of complements on how good you look wearing glasses.

Confused 18 Apr 2015, 00:44

Hello Eyescene community!

This is a rather unusual post, so I hope I've chosen the right thread.

It's the first time I'm admitting this but it seems as good a place like any other. For a while now, I've been glasses-obsessed to the point of fetishism. I enjoy conversations about glasses, squinting, the contrast between blurry and crisp vision, prescription numbers... The whole lot. On the other hand, I have some sort of an irrational 'fear' of wearing glasses (looking different and having all my mates say they didn't know I needed spex).

Maybe if I got to the point of not being able to see without them, I would actually start wearing them. I've got no chance of inducing myopia as I am in my mid 20s and have 20/15 vision. However, i am a little longsighted (just mildly, but obviously I see just fine). What if I deconditioned my eye muscles (relaxed them to the point of no return)?

Any piece of thought for someone like me?

Eyestein 17 Apr 2015, 19:01

Yep. That's about right. However I know a lady with -3.5 who wears her glasses only for driving. She manages without them everywhere else.

Anita 17 Apr 2015, 18:14

Ok so there is nothing you can do to stop becoming nearsighted once you get it thats it you won't see without wearing glasses again. When you start wearing glasses you can't go without them I found. It doesn't take much before you are -2.00 -3.00 then you are blind without them right?

Soundmanpt 17 Apr 2015, 17:19


Actually the percentage of nearsighted people maybe even a bit more than 50%. I think your right that women are much more prone to be nearsighted, however the numbers of farsighted has increased by quite a bit in the past few years. Very difficult to say what the most common prescription is. But I would suggest that the bigger percentage is less than -4.00. Even though there are many that come in this forum with much higher prescriptions the number of those wearing a prescription of over -7.00 is not that large.

Anita 17 Apr 2015, 16:52

1 in 2 people are nearsighted and its higher in women. If you are nearsighted you can't go without glasses. Even at -1.00 you would need to wear them. What's the most common prescription -4.00? I dont feel so bad knowing this but how lucky are people with normal eyes.

Andrew 15 Apr 2015, 22:40

Entries for Brighton Marathon 2016 are now open, Ellen. The cost goes up the later you leave entering...

Likelenses 15 Apr 2015, 20:53


What is a doppelganger?

Ellen 15 Apr 2015, 12:47

Wow that lady is over 200lbs and seriously puts me to shame fitness wise (I'm about 160lbs). She must be about as myopic as me too and her face is similar. I didn't realise I had an American doppelganger.

Seems running and high myopia might be compatible after all. I don't suppose in any of her videos she mentions getting the go ahead from a doctor or ophthalmic practitioner?

Centurion 15 Apr 2015, 08:47


This lady is very myopic and runs marathons:

Stingray 15 Apr 2015, 05:57

Many years ago my wife and I were avid snorkelers. She is myopic with a -3.50 rx. Obviously, she could not see a thing underwater with a mask on. We were going to Jamaica for a vacation and I took a pair of her old eyeglasses and took off the arms. They had a plastic frame. I took a file and filed down the frame so it would fit snugly into the mask without movement. It looked strange, but it worked fine. That may be a solution for Ellie.

Galileo 15 Apr 2015, 00:24

I have not seen Rx goggles over -8 however I have seen prescription diving masks as high as -15. Obviously they are a bit bigger than goggles but if vision is the priority then check it out - find a diving shop either in your local or on the net. They usually can link you to someone who makes Rx masks.

Crystal Veil 14 Apr 2015, 21:43


you can find the goggles on the Zenni site as follows: go to "women's glasses", then click "refine your search", then click "frame" and choose the option "goggles". However, they don't seem to make these for prescriptions above minus eight. This may have to do with the very thin rims that hold the lenses. But it's worth a try to check with Zenni. Perhaps they can do a special job for you. Good luck!

Ellie 14 Apr 2015, 17:24

I have tried looking on Zenni for rx goggles and can't find any. Could someone direct me to a link with zenni's rx swim goggles?

I have generally found that most websites do not sell rx goggles in high prescriptions like mine (-15).


guest 14 Apr 2015, 13:11


Don't forget about the rx goggles!!!

even if you made them in -15 that would be sufficient to navigate around...

I did pool and ocean at -8 bareyed

not when I went into double digits...

Melyssa 14 Apr 2015, 08:21


What the guys said below about straps is abso-100%-lutely correct. I have used the Croakies brand for several decades now when exercising -- it is a big help in warm weather. My glasses have never bounced around with the strap in place, even at the blinding speed of 3 mph on the treadmill or during bowling practice of 3 games in less than an hour in the preseason. :)

Cactus Jack 14 Apr 2015, 08:06


Combining Contact Lenses and Glasses is something that many ECPs are reluctant to suggest trying. I don't know exactly why. I have my suspicions, but those are not important. Maybe it is because it requires a bit more imagination for correcting significant refractive errors than the typical solution.

Contact lenses are very good at correcting Myopia that is uncomplicated by Astigmatism, but lousy for correcting Astigmatism because it is difficult to get Toric CLs to remain correctly oriented on the cornea. Glasses can do a decent job of correcting Astigmatism, but can get very heavy if high Myopia or Hyperopia is involved. If you can comfortably wear contact lenses, you may be able to find a GOC combination that gives you good vision and relatively light weight glasses.

With your ECP's help, you may be able to find a good sphere only contact power that gets your spherical refractive error into a range where the glasses cylinder correction does not result in glasses that are very thick and heavy. You and your ECP need to think outside the box and it may result in a small MINUS or PLUS sphere correction in the glasses for the best overall results. One nice benefit that results from correcting most of your sphere refractive error with contacts is that Vertex Distance effects of strong glasses can disappear. The procedure is to wear the contact lenses during normal refractions.

One of our local Ophthalmologists uses contact lenses during his examinations of cataract patients with very high prescriptions. This helps him accurately determine the refractive power of the IOLs he will install during surgery for the most accurate final results by eliminating Vertex Distance errors.


Soundmanpt 14 Apr 2015, 08:04


Likelenses is right that by making the strap tight enough so your glasses don't move or bounce will probably leave red marks on both sides of your nose for while after you finish you run. But your going to have your glasses on anyway so no one will see the red marks. My guess is that you probably already carry a spare of glasses with you just in case something were ever to happen to your glasses. But I think what Likelenses is suggesting is that you even have them with you while your running just in case. I wouldn't think you would make the strap so tight as to cause your glasses to beak across the nose. But a lot of that depends on the type of frame you wear and the age of the frame because as you know plastic does tend to get brittle with age, but if your glasses are less than a years old you shouldn't have that concern.

Likelenses 14 Apr 2015, 07:55


I agree with Soundmanpt,regarding using a strap. The only adverse thing about it is that it will cause a dent in your nose for a few hours afterward.

Also be sure to have a spare pair of glasses with you. Can you imagine if the tautness of the strap caused the glasses to break in two at the nose bridge area,or if a lense popped out in the middle of a marathon.

Soundmanpt 14 Apr 2015, 07:32


Checking with your ECP is without any doubt the best thing to do before jumping into a running program.

Your best option if your okayed for running is wearing your glasses. I think your vision with contacts without astigmatism correction would leave you in too much of a blur. They make some fun looking eyeglass straps called "Croakies" that will keep your glasses in place. Of course they also have other types of straps that goes under your hair so unseen. If their adjusted tight enough they should even keep your glasses from bouncing up and down on your nose and more importantly keep your glasses from falling off.

Hope your ECP finds that the risks of detaching of your retinas is not too risky.

Ellen 14 Apr 2015, 06:53

Thanks for your replies although they are a bit conflicting and hey I'm not that overweight! I'm quite tall and so carry it well. At least that's what I tell myself! I think I became a bit complacent over the last year and didn't really notice the pounds piling on. Too many nights in all loved up with takeaways watching films.

OK so guest, I'm surprised that running is so bad for someone with very high myopia. How do you come to the conclusion that I'm four times more likely to have a retinal issue than someone with -12 eyes? Is it really that bad?

The other issue regarding running in glasses has crossed my mind. My glasses are heavy and bounce up and down as I run which is both uncomfortable and disorientating. It makes me feel kind of sea sick as my vision jumps around. I don't have contacts because of my very high astigmatism but I've thought of asking my optician friend if she can prescribe some spherical lenses that will give me good enough vision to see where I'm going while running. I'll see what happens there.

As for swimming. NO way. It's way too boring going up and down a pool for any length of time. Even with eyes there's no change of scenery but when you're as blind as me it's mind numbing. Besides I'm not that great at it, in fact I have to admit that I haven't been to a pool since I was forced to as a kid. I couldn't bring myself to swim in glasses and I have no idea how to negotiate the changing room to pool journey without my glasses so it's just easier to stay away.

Think I'll chat to my optician and get her to check my retinas and then take it from there.

guest 14 Apr 2015, 05:45

Hi Ellen !

From your favorite Guest Admirer....

Sorry for your loss, come to Florida there are many potential replacements !

But on an exercise note..even though I don't think you need tolose weight, exercise is good. Please remember, I had a -19 / -21 gf sooo these issues are relevant.

First of all, running is OUT, no no no, not at your numbers, so is weight training. Crytal's Nell at -12 is 4 times less likely to damage retina as you. As the eye stretches so does the retina thin. (think rubberband) Even though you seem to be 50% worse than Nell, the risk is 4x higher.


SWIMMING IS #1 !!! PERFECT. And even with your vision, you can still see a blur as you approach poolend. Also you will soon know how many strokes to cross pool. AND, you can get swim goggles! Zenni makes them and if you can get close to your rx, you will functionally see in pool OR get non rx pool goggles and just glue in an old pair of your lenses to the inside; that will work fine.

WALKING IS ALSO A GREAT EXERCISE, with minimal eye issues.

Hope this helps, write me !

Crystal Veil 14 Apr 2015, 03:54


my life partner (and first model ever) Nel is 60 and she has a prescription of minus twelve. In recent years she ran the half marathon a few times (2.17 hours) and always in glasses. She had to give up contact lenses in her mid forties because of dry eyes. She is in a higher risk group for retina detachment but her ECP saw no risk in her running "career". It's wise to ask professional advice but my guess is that overweight is more risky than high myopia. So you will need a good schedule for that. It's probably best to get some regular advice. It takes about a year to run a safe half marathon. Btw, sorry for your loss.

Andrew 14 Apr 2015, 03:43


As a runner who has completed a few marathons, the advice is usually to check with your GP before embarking on a new exercise regime. I cannot remember what your Rx is, but I usually find it easier to run in CLs rather than glasses, as the time taken to do marathon training is such that the weather can change dramatically while you are out, and glasses+ rain for several hours at a time is not much fun, although I know a few people who do put themselves through it. I suspect that any and all sports involve a slightly increase risk of eye problems, but the general benefits to health and well-being probably far outweigh those risks. Where are you based, if you don't mind my asking?

Ellen 14 Apr 2015, 01:19

Not sure where to post this but "Vision" seemed as good a place as any.

My significant other is no longer. She's taken up a post overseas for a year and while we haven't officially split it does seem that that is what she wants. Anyway I've been rather down about it for the last few weeks, so much so that I've been on medication. I need to pull myself together and move on and someone suggested exercise as a good mood enhancer and perhaps even having a target like running a (half) marathon. Now, I've never been very sporty, largely as a result of my eyesight. I was always warned away from contact or ball sports as a child due to fears that I may get hit in the eye and damage a retina. I've never developed the hand eye coordination for such things either. Swimming was also something I steered clear of too for the simple reason that I just couldn't see. I do cycle sometimes but that's about it and I'm carrying too much extra weight (20lbs or so) and feel very unfit. So to cut a long story short are there any dangers involved for very myopic people in taking up exercise such as gym training or running? Does intense exercise affect the pressure in the eyes at all? I'll probably go and check with my optician before embarking on my marathon running career but just wondered if anyone had any experience or knowledge surrounding this. Thank you.

 12 Apr 2015, 06:41

Depends on too many factors to discuss here.

 11 Apr 2015, 18:33

Just wondering how bad can your eyesight be to still be able to join the military?

Eyescene 10 Apr 2015, 16:24

the opticians have got you really because you need to get the updated prescription glasses straight away. Now I'm in contacts and old glasses waiting for the new glasses to arrive. I wear them a lot so there worth it. But £180 to upgrade the lenses is crazy. If I went for standard lenses would they be that bad? Does anyone do that.

Eyescene 10 Apr 2015, 16:23

the opticians have got you really because you need to get the updated prescription glasses straight away. Now I'm in contacts and old glasses waiting for the new glasses to arrive. I wear them a lot so there worth it. But £180 to upgrade the lenses is crazy. If I went for standard lenses would they be that bad? Does anyone do that.

Soundmanpt 09 Apr 2015, 16:21


The site is (

Soundmanpt 09 Apr 2015, 16:20


If you already placed an order for glasses I also suggest that you cancel it and get a copy of your prescription as well as your PD measurement from where you got your eyes examined at. Now of course they won't be very happy with you but that is too bad. You don't owe them anything and you paid for your eye exam so they have to provide that to you even if don't really want to. Now they very well maay refuse to provide you with your PD if you cancel your order and they do have a right to do that. But you can easily do that yourself anyway. Crystal Veil is correct and also highly recommend Zenni for your glasses. You have over 700 pairs to choose from for under $21.00 and that even includes the AR coating which most optical stores charge about $50.00 for. If you want your lenses a bit thinner I suggest you select the optional high index lenses that sell for $19.00 extra and your glasses should look very nice. So the total price of your glasses would only be $40.00.

Crystal Veil 09 Apr 2015, 15:50


there is no need to spend heaps of money. You could have kept most of the money in your pocket by getting your prescription at the optician and then order the glasses online. My favorite is Zenni Optical. Check them out!

Anita 09 Apr 2015, 15:43

Shouldn't we get free lenses for are glasses? Being shortsighted is bad enough and I just had to pay £180 for a new prescription. At -6.00 you can't have standard lenses? How did they do it years ago?

Cactus Jack 09 Apr 2015, 11:06

Prismatic& Murky,

Everyone responds differently to excess alcohol consumption. Some people get belligerent and others get happy. It is a mistake to assume that other people respond as you do and have the same results as you do. One of the reasons that Strabismus, in any of its forms is so difficult to manage is that the Eye Positioning System is so complex and can involve so many factors.

Many years ago, I had the privilege of experiencing the effects of loss of pressurization in high altitude flight in a pressure chamber. It was excellent training and one of the points they made was that that everyone experiences different symptoms of oxygen deprivation and at different rates. The main purpose of the training was to let you experience your unique symptoms so you could recognize them and do something about the problem before it became a safety issue. One of the things they pointed out during the classroom session before the actual chamber session was that the symptoms of oxygen deprivation were very similar in each individual to the symptoms they would experience from excessive alcohol consumption.


murky  09 Apr 2015, 00:45

Prism is fun to play with, CJ explains it well. I wonder of you, Prismatic, are base out, and I am base in.

I try putting on 2 pairs of glasses, getting 20d of prism( 5l 5r X 2 ). Looking at the screen, or reading is a real pleasure, and distance vision is doubled for a short while, then I can fuse,and it becomes so easy to see.

Prismatic 07 Apr 2015, 18:22


I find the opposite to be true - when I have had a "bit too much" to drink. My vision will go double after a few drinks and prism is the only thing that seems to bring the world back together. :) I seem to be lucky and can get away wit not having double vision bareyed, but as Cactus pointed out the relaxation seems to work too well on my stronger eye and all is lost.

Cactus Jack 07 Apr 2015, 10:51


Sorry, I almost missed your questions.

That is pretty much correct, but mostly it is because your Eye Positioning System (EPS) is trainable or programmable. The Eye Positioning System is much more complex than the Focusing System, but it is what an engineer would call an Open Loop Servo System. That means that the EPS does not know exactly were your eyes are pointing, but is quite satisfied with any position where the images from your two eyes are fused. To do this, tt must control and coordinate 12 muscles, 3 opposing pairs on each eyeball. Inducing Esophoria or Exophoria is much easier than Inducing Myopia.

I suspect that you have successfully induced some Exophoria and your EPS has become accustomed to maintaining the divergence caused by wearing the BI glasses.

It is not uncommon for some of the sophisticated control systems in your brain to be affected by excess alcohol consumption including speech, cognitive thought, balance and your EPS. In some instances, excess consumption causes double vision, but I suspect in your case, your EPS relaxes and your eyes revert to their "natural" position which involves less divergence and your EPS has enough response to fuse the images. When you sober up, the "training" takes over and your BI glasses are needed again.


murky 05 Apr 2015, 22:48

Prism is interesting stuff, I started with 2 Base in , because I told the eye doc i occasionally had image split when reading. It made almost no difference, 10 years later, I demanded the full correction from the EPC, he was astonished, and told me that he would not prescribe more than half the exaphoria (20D for me), so I got 10D (5 each side), wow what a difference, reading became a pleasure at last, and soon I could not manage without my glasses, taking them off when driving is SO Scary initially, till I get fusion with effort, soon lost. They put a real oomph into my vision, and are profoundly helpful to my general ambience. ( am +1.5 L & R )

I ordered a pair of +18 ( 8 a side) online to see the effect, and WOW it takes a few seconds to adjust, but the world has such magnificent depth of field.

I am inclined to think that the dog will chase its tail, wear more prism, and the eyes will relax from fusing, so the ECP is correct in fixing only half, to keep the eyes working together, correct CJ?

One very strange thing, if I have a few ( >4) drinks, I get diplopia with the glasses on, and take them off to correct it Why?

Cactus Jack 02 Apr 2015, 09:24

Thanks Bracesfan for taking the time to do the calculations. After doing the experiment it became pretty obvious that beyond a certain level, the actual values didn't matter much as it relates to VA. Even very large things disappear in the blur and only light, dark, and colors of large objects are perceived. Most people, who need VERY strong prescriptions or have low or no vision, seem to develop extremely good spatial memory. Once they know where they are EXACTLY, in a familiar environment, they can function surprisingly well, but they are in serious trouble if they become disoriented.

Vertex Distance effects can be VERY significant in the "apparent" power of high prescription glasses. One of our local Eye Surgeons uses high power contact lenses when refracting surgical candidates with high glasses prescriptions to determine their actual refractive error. He uses the contacts to correct the patients refractive error to within a range where Vertex Distance effects are negligible (i.e. less then +/- 4)and then does the refraction. With the two numbers, he can select the appropriate IOL power to achieve the desired final prescription much more accurately.


bracesfan 01 Apr 2015, 23:21


The total of two lenses is highly dependent on vertex and even on the sequence of lenses. For +20 at 12 mm and +16 at 15 mm the total is +36,75 (if the sequence is reversed then +37,25). At 14 and 17 mm the total is +39,75 (+40,25).

GreginColo 01 Apr 2015, 20:34

Thanks CJ for your informative experiment and discussion of the visual challenges of those with very high Rx's, either plus or minus. I think many of us have wondered what those degrees of visual challenges would be like, so thanks for sharing your experiment with us and providing us a verbal visualization of such.

Cactus Jack 01 Apr 2015, 17:30


I think they would be close to helpless if misplaced their -36 glasses. If a person needs -36 glasses it means that their refractive error is around +20. The difference is caused by very significant Vertex Distance effects of about 1.3 diopters per mm.

I have a trial lens set and did a crude experiment with a +20 lens stacked with a +16 lens. The total of the two lenses is really unknown because of compound lens effects and distances between the two lenses, but I suspect it was between +36 and +40.

Looking through them revealed a world of colored blobs and light and dark areas. I tried looking at a pair of glasses on a table and the blur was so great that you could not perceive that there were even glasses there. All I saw was a very blurry area that was the color of the table finish. The glasses were invisible.

I tried the experiment again with only the +20 lens and the glasses were still invisible unless I got within 4 or 5 cm of them and at that distance, I could only see a small part of the glasses at any one time. If I backed off so I theoretically could have seen the full width of the glasses and the frames, they disappeared in the blur. I could tell there was something on the white table surface if the glasses had a dark frame from about 15 to 20 cm. It helped that I knew what I was looking for and knew where I had put them.

I tried the experiment with a -20 lens to duplicate approximately what a person with very high Hyperopia would see without glasses. While the glasses were blurry, the images was minified and I could see the whole area around the glasses, but the metal frame wires were only barely visible because of their apparent thinness.

If you really want to know how a person, who needs very high correction, sees without his glasses, find a friendly ECP and explain that you would like to experience what it would be like to have very high myopia and high hyperopia. The initial experience may not be very pleasant and be sure there is a trashcan at hand to catch any results of extreme nausea.


P.S. No more answers without identifying yourself. No name won't cut it.

 01 Apr 2015, 12:53

A person with -36 glasses will be able to "see" it if it is few feet away or misplaced on table?

can anyone tell?

Soundmanpt 31 Mar 2015, 06:03


That was very interesting and not at all surprising. The numbers he mentions is just about what I have noticed with so many young people. It is to the point now of being rare to find anyone around the age of 20 that doesn't wear glasses / contacts.

Trent 30 Mar 2015, 17:48

Short audio segment on myopia, very interesting. click on "Listen" to hear the broadcast.

Soundmanpt 30 Mar 2015, 15:45


One piece of advice I give is when someone finds out the will be getting glasses is for that person to make a point of telling everyone they know that they will soon be seen wearing glasses. Doing that won't allow you to as you say "chicken out" because then people will soon be asking about your glasses if you don't soon show up wearing them. It sounds silly but it really does make it easier. Now, yes of course when you do work up the nerve to wear them it is going to be a surprise to everyone. But just as Cactus Jack has told you already your fear is actually much worse than it will ever be. You only need to look around at how many of your co-workers and friends wear glasses so they had to go through the very same thing as your about to go through. Your going to get nothing but complements about how good your glasses look and some will even want to try them on. Because your prescription is pretty weak I would expect that more than one that tries them on will admit to seeing better with your glasses on. For any of them that have perfect vision they will be the first ones claiming to see better. That is because everyone's eyes like being slightly over corrected and that is what your glasses will provide for them.

Cactus Jack 30 Mar 2015, 14:59


As we say in Texas, "Bite the Bullet" and wear your glasses to work. Delays will not accomplish anything and just make the decision harder. The comments and wanting to try on your glasses will only last for a day or two at the most and that will be it. You will get some comments about their strength (low), but no one can judge or experience how you see with them, except you. Your judgement and decisions are all that counts. The judgments and opinions of others are less than meaningless. Your visual comfort is what is important.

Glasses are just tools to help you see better, nothing more, nothing less. Wearing glasses is no more significant than getting some new clothes or deciding to get a different style hair cut.

After a few days, people will not even notice that you are wearing glasses, they will just be part of the way you look. However, if you change frame styles, they will notice, briefly. I have worn glasses since I was 14. 77 now. Many years ago, I worked at a small company and had for several years. One day, I guess I was in my mid 30s, I got some new glasses and I was stopped by one of the Vice Presidents of the company that I knew, but did not work for. He ask me when I started wearing glasses. I told him about 20 years ago when I was 14. He said, "You have worn glasses as long as I have known you, but they were so much a part of you, that I never really noticed. By the way, I like your new frame style. They look good on you."

Enough said!


David 30 Mar 2015, 14:20

Hi Adam -

Yes, nighttime is when even a small prescription can provide a noticeable difference. My optometrist suggested that I look away from my computer screen every twenty minutes or so which seems to have helped in my case. He said so much of adult-onset myopia is a result of all of the close work we do that it's important to spend a small bit of time focusing on far objects each day.

In any event, your prescription is still so small that you have the option of wearing glasses only when you feel the need. Some people are quite blur tolerant, and I have several friends who are part-time wearers even thought they are -2.

Let us know how things go.

David 30 Mar 2015, 14:20

Hi Adam -

Yes, nighttime is when even a small prescription can provide a noticeable difference. My optometrist suggested that I look away from my computer screen every twenty minutes or so which seems to have helped in my case. He said so much of adult-onset myopia is a result of all of the close work we do that it's important to spend a small bit of time focusing on far objects each day.

In any event, your prescription is still so small that you have the option of wearing glasses only when you feel the need. Some people are quite blur tolerant, and I have several friends who are part-time wearers even thought they are -2.

Let us know how things go.

Adam 30 Mar 2015, 13:03

Hi I'm afraid to say I chickened out of wearing my glasses at work, guess I need to get more comfortable with wearing them. I did wear them tonight while driving and did notice a big difference with traffic lights and other car light now no longer having a halo effect around them. Due to this I think I will wear them for definite while driving at night, I did also notice my eyes did a he during the day but this did stop when I put my glasses on.

Cactus Jack 29 Mar 2015, 16:51


You will probably notice the most improvement at night, when driving. I don't know if you are familiar with how the iris (f stop) setting affects the depth of field or range of useful focus, but the pupils in your eyes perform the same service. In bright light, your pupils close down and that helps you focus clearly over a broader range of distances. At night and in low light, your pupils open up and and the focus range decreases.

I hope you decide to wear them full time for the next few weeks before making the decision about when to wear them. You may get some reaction from your friends and family, but that will only last for a day or two. You need to get past that stage so your future choice of when to wear your glasses will be YOUR choice. Remember, you do not wear vision correction for anyone's benefit, but yours. You many get some comments about how low the prescription is. Just tell them that they make distant things (beyond about 2 meters or 7 feet) clearer and really help at night.


David 29 Mar 2015, 10:01

Hi Adam -- Yes, that is pretty much what I experienced. A slight improvement but not much more. -.50 is about the lowest prescription available and doesn't mean that you can't continue to drive uncorrected.

Let us know how you continue to get on with them.

Adam 29 Mar 2015, 08:17

I was able to collects glasses yesterday, I have spent most of today wearing them. Although there isn't a huge change I have noticed that the television is slightly clearer I guess slightly more HD. I have also noticedy eyes do feel slightly more relaxed while wearing them.

Soundmanpt 29 Mar 2015, 08:04


Even though as far as your concerned your glasses are already very strong you may be surprised to know that your glasses are actually considered to be in the moderate/strong range. Glasses are considered to be in the strong range at -7.00 or more. At -7.00, or more, the blur is about the same from that point on without your glasses. But even at -6.00 or more your glasses should still provide you with 20/20 vision as long as you don't have other issues such as a high amount of astigmatisms. Just as "Likelenses" has said more information is needed to help determine some answers to your questions. The biggest one being your age. If your over 21 then you should expect that your vision (increases) will soon be slowing down.

Likelenses 28 Mar 2015, 19:34


It all depends,some people can not see 20/20 even with glasses on when the myopia gets higher.

You are correct,that without glasses your vision is very poor,and if it should get worse, bad blur is still bad blur.

If you tell us your present age,when you got your first glasses,and the prescription at that time if known,we can possibly predict how high your myopia may get. It would also be helpful to know if you are presently in school,or what kind of work you do.

Are you asking because you are concerned about your vision,or is it that you would enjoy wearing much stronger glasses?

As far as the glasses themselves,you already have a hefty prescription. Should it get to about minus 9.00, the look of your lenses will change drastically.The lenses will obviously be much thicker,but the front surfaces will be totally flat,with all of the power ground into the back sides.

The next major look of lenses comes when the prescription gets to the mid teens, at which time both front,and back surfaces are concave,called bioconcave lenses. And then in the minus 20's range myodisc lenses are needed.

Antonio 28 Mar 2015, 15:21

Dear Jill

I think if these glasses give you back the ability to read signs - as my glasses give to me too - then just wear them for driving and ever when you feel they help you. I guess for now they are alright for your eyes

as long as you can read far ok in them and you feel safe driving in them.

Keep us informed and best regards, Antonio

Anita 28 Mar 2015, 14:33

Ok so what would happen if my shortsight -6.00 got worse? I always have to wear glasses so how bad could it get? I know the lenses for glasses cost more but would I see any worse when havent got glasses on its bad now.

Adam 28 Mar 2015, 06:51

I got a phonecall from the opticians today and turns out my glasses are already ready, which I am pretty impressed with was expecting them the end of next week. Hopefully I should be able to pick them up this afternoon, which will give me the rest of the weekend to try and get used to wearing them.

Likelenses 27 Mar 2015, 19:40


It is possible that the optometrist made an error at your exam.Often times a first Rx in your age group is misdiagnosed,and plus glasses,or far too weak minus prescribed.

Did he,or she put drops in your eyes that caused blurring for a time after the exam was over.

If they did not use the drops,it is possible that you have more myopia than -.50.

My guess is that you have what is becoming more prevalent,adult onset myopia. It is brought on by the increased use of computers,cell phones,and other close work tasks.

You most likely need glasses in the range of-1.50,and will really need to wear them for most activities. Your glasses will probably top out at no higher than -3.00,but you will be wearing them full time.

My guess when you get the proper glasses,which may also have an astigmatism correction,that you will be wearing them also for near work.

Best to go to another doctor,and request a wet refraction.

Cactus Jack 27 Mar 2015, 15:38


A couple of suggestions. Get a copy of your prescription for your records, In most countries, you are entitled to it by law. Also, try to get your PD (pupillary distance). They don't have to give you that, but you might be able to spot it on some of the paperwork. It will be a two digit number around 60 +/- 7 mm. Pupillary Distance is the distance between the center of your pupils while looking straight ahead. Sometimes PD is listed as the distance from the center of your nose to each pupil and the PD is calculated by adding the two numbers together. In that case the numbers will be about 1/2 the actual PD.

With your prescription and PD, you can order any prescription you want On Line. If you can't get the PD, it is easy to measure using a bathroom mirror and a ruler calibrated in mm.

Please let us know when you get your glasses. You will probably have some more questions and we will be happy to answer them.


Adam 27 Mar 2015, 13:30

I managed to find time to try on some frames today, and actually managed to find a couple of frames I thought I looked ok in! Do think I look a bit strange with frames on my face. Luckily they had a buy 1 get 1 free offer so could get both of the frames I prefered. Now waiting for them to be ready, they did say it could take a week for them to be ready.

Adam 27 Mar 2015, 13:30

I managed to find time to try on some frames today, and actually managed to find a couple of frames I thought I looked ok in! Do think I look a bit strange with frames on my face. Luckily they had a buy 1 get 1 free offer so could get both of the frames I prefered. Now waiting for them to be ready, they did say it could take a week for them to be ready.

Cactus jack 25 Mar 2015, 12:50


Dry eyes can cause a lot of problems, in addition to astigmatism. As I mentioned, your Corneas depend on tears to provide moisture, lubrication, oxygen, and nutrients. The Corneas are living tissue that happens to be transparent.

There are a number of causes of dry eyes and there are a number of treatments that depend on the cause. The cause should be investigated. I urge you see an ophthalmologist ASAP so you can start working on improving the situation. If possible one that specializes in Dry Eye problems.

One of the symptoms of astigmatism, caused by dry eyes, is that it can vary during the day. For example, you may have very little astigmatism when you wake in the morning and your tears were able to moisturize and lubricate your corneas. Then it gets worse as the day wears on and your corneas are exposed to the air. Also if you do a lot of reading or use a computer a lot, you typically don't blink enough to to keep your corneas moist.

However, I know of another mysterious dry cornea problem where the individual's eyes did not close completely when he slept and the part of his cornea that was exposed to air dried out when he slept.

Generally, true astigmatism is not reversible but it can be corrected by refractive surgery, but typically it i corrected with glasses.

Step one would be to identify and control the dry eye problem.


David 25 Mar 2015, 12:29

Hi Jill --

Your story is a lot like mine. I started with -.50 and within a year was up to -1.00. With your glasses on you probably are seeing at the level you had a year ago which was minor enough that you didn't think you had a visual problem. If you're at -1.00 you can still get away without full-time wear but probably will need them for driving and anything that requires clear distance vision. You might want to see how you do with text on the tv and other visual tasks.

I'd get a check-up at some point. Many optometric offices do visual check-ups for free if you buy your glasses there.

Keep us posted.


David 25 Mar 2015, 12:29

Hi Jill --

Your story is a lot like mine. I started with -.50 and within a year was up to -1.00. With your glasses on you probably are seeing at the level you had a year ago which was minor enough that you didn't think you had a visual problem. If you're at -1.00 you can still get away without full-time wear but probably will need them for driving and anything that requires clear distance vision. You might want to see how you do with text on the tv and other visual tasks.

I'd get a check-up at some point. Many optometric offices do visual check-ups for free if you buy your glasses there.

Keep us posted.


Soundmanpt 25 Mar 2015, 11:18


No I doubt that your vision has gotten any worse if your able to see perfect with your glasses. It just means that your eyes have adjusted more to seeing with glasses as opposed to not having them on. I would expect your vision to be more blurry now when you don't have your glasses on. You probably should start wearing your glasses for any sporting events or concerts you attend as well as at the movies and even while watching TV as they should help with anything more than a few feet away from your eyes. In fact if they are comfortable enough it really won't hurt to wear them most all the time except when you need to switch to your readers. I think your very soon going to realize that bifocals (progressives if you don't want the dreaded bifocal line to show) maybe the better way to go. As you have probably already found out by now with your readers on anytime you look across the room everything is blurry. That's because your eyes don't need that type of prescription to see distance with. Getting just one pair of glasses that will allow you to be able to see distance perfect as well reading a book would be easier I think.

I'm sure you must be thinking that before you got your glasses things didn't seem as blurry? Well that is because you were straining for the most part and not realizing it also your eyes tend to accommodate which also helps you to see better than you really can. You would probably have trouble in about a month if you were to get your eyes examined seeing even the 20/40 line without your glasses. That is because by then your eyes should be much more relaxed by then. Seeing the 20/30 they were straining i'm sure. Just remember wearing your glasses isn't going to make your eyes any worse.

Jill 25 Mar 2015, 10:21

So I did a test this morning figuring best time would be in daylight. I wore the glasses part way down my nose while driving. I was easily able to look through them, and then over them. The difference was startling. For example a speed limit sign a block away was clear through the glasses, but when looking over them the number 30 was a complete blur..not fuzzy, but worse! I take this to mean that my eyesight has gotten worse over the last few months. If I can see ok using the glasses does that mean they are right for me, or does the worse blur without them mean my eyes really got worse and I need a new exam? I'd rather not part with the fee for the exam. I am afraid that if I only made out part of the 30/20 line before, as was mentioned, that now I won't even be able to make out that much.

question 25 Mar 2015, 09:20

Actually I do have very dry eyes. Would this cause a rise in astigmatism over time? and I'm guessing I couldnt reverse the damage already done

Cactus jack 25 Mar 2015, 06:34


No. However, I think you should consider a second opinion about what, if anything, is going on.

Something that I just thought about. Are you having any trouble with dry eyes or insufficient tears? Sometimes that can cause changes in the cornea, generally on a short term basis. The cornea depends on Oxygen in the air and nutrients and moisture from tears. It has no blood supply.


Question 24 Mar 2015, 23:08

Cactus Jack,

reviewed it. Do you have any theories on why my doctor thinks I will have more astigmatism next checkup? Is it something I could be doing or what? thanks

Cactus Jack 24 Mar 2015, 19:59


The problem with astigmatism is that it messes up your vision at all distances. The most obvious effect is that it makes text fuzzy in a strange way. Letters are made up of straight lines that run in several directions, called "strokes" and curved lines. A simple example of Astigmatism effects might be the vertical and horizontal strokes that form the letter "H". Astigmatism actually causes your eyes to focus at two different distances and, depending on the Axis the vertical strokes might be sharp at one distance while the horizontal stroke is fuzzy and you might be able to move the "H" a few cm away and the vertical strokes would appear fuzzy and the horizontal stroke sharp and clear.

This difference in the focus distance causes your focus control system to work extra hard to try to focus clearly, but it is an impossible task that cannot be done with the available tools. External lenses with Cylinder and Axis (direction of the long axis of the cylinder) are required to correct Astigmatism.

I suggest you review the posts on the Astigmatism thread. In particular, read my post:

Cactus Jack 16 Nov 2014, 06:48

to Alice,

about how to fine tune the cylinder axis in an eye exam.

You really gain nothing by not correcting any astigmatism you may have.


antonio 24 Mar 2015, 17:07

Dear Jill,

yes, honestly seems to me, as you said you needed them a bit more urgent even on day-time on Monday that your eyes might have worsened a little.

But maybe it´s not every day like that that you need them even to read speed limits even on day time ? If it´s get better again it would be enough if you use them by night i think. But might be, it remains and you´ll need them to drive more often now. I think that you were willing to keep them on the whole day on Sunday for the road trip might tell the same, that your subconsciousness has found out they also help you during the day.

According to my experiences first glasses only are used full time or in day light in your case if they already have gone a bit too weak, but that was only my case :-), hope yours is not the same, keep us informed,

best regards, Antonio

question 24 Mar 2015, 16:33

I have been told that my astigmatism is getting worse but have no correction. I am 26 and don't do much of anything requiring strain on eyes so I'm trying to figure out what is causing it. its gone from 0 to -.75 in a two year period and my doctor said it would likely get worse with no explanation as to why. no keratoconus or anything either.

Soundmanpt 24 Mar 2015, 09:21


Your not the first one that ever got surprised when they went for an eye exam. The fact that you were starting to have difficulties reading messages on your cellphone I assume you did expect that you would be prescribed glasses for seeing your phone and reading in general? But besides that you must not have been able to see the 20/20 line on the eye chart either. My best guess based on the prescription you got is that you were barely able to see much of the 20/30. So the lenses he / she put into the refractor that allowed you to see the 20/20 line was -.50 lenses. To be honest that is about the weakest prescription you would ever get. I'm sure they didn't seem to make any or much of a difference to you at first. For one thing your eyes need to adjust to glasses to notice a difference and only putting them on for a short time doesn't allow your eyes to really adjust. Driving during the day is always much easier to see pretty well. But driving after dark is much different as you found out. That alone should be worth whatever the glasses cost you. Having good vision when your driving at night is really very important. So even though you didn't say it I bet you now wear your glasses when your driving at night? But I think the road trip you took where you wore your glasses nearly all day also made a difference for you. I'm sure after wearing them all day when you took them off at the end of the day then you noticed the difference didn't you? That was because your eyes finally were relaxed wearing them and adjusted to them. My guess is they also must have gotten pretty comfortable for you to keep them on all day. Most become nearsighted at a much younger age but like anything there are exceptions. I really don't expect that your distance vision will get much different, but you may need a couple increases. If you work in an office and do a lot of close work causing you to wear your readers quite a bit the I really suggest that you get bifocals which is what I am sure your doctor was recommending when you went.

gwgs 24 Mar 2015, 08:48

Jill, welcome to the community. Interesting to hear that someone from your office referred you here. There are some experts on eyesight here who will give you a pretty well informed opinion, but I would say with my 2 cents worth that your eyes have got used to your new glasses and are wanting you to wear them more than you are.

Have you been getting headaches? Your optician was obviously right that you do require a distance prescription as well as for reading/close up work and therefore bifocals would probably be the best option for you.

Jill 24 Mar 2015, 07:49

I had question about my eyesight, and a friend here in my office showed me this site. Here is my situation...About a year ago I was beginning to have some trouble reading my cellphone messages. Never ever wore glasses before. So I went for an exam and looked through all the lenses, and was told not only that I should have reading glasses, but also distance glasses for driving. I didn't think I needed the distance glasses and decided to get drugstore readers (+1.25) and ordered the distance glasses (-0.50). When I picked them up, they really made no difference in my distance vision. I wore them out of the store and driving home. I thought they were a waste. THEN a few days later I tried them when driving at night, and really saw a big diffence in sharpness. I don't think I needed them, but they sharpened signs etc.

After a few months I saw that they helped a bit during the day too, but not a big difference. Last Sunday, we went on a road trip and I wore them almost all day.

This morning, while driving to the train I noticed most of the signs were a blur. The glasses were needed in order to even see speed limit signs. I don't remember my vision ever being so bad that I really needed the glasses to drive.

Here is my question: Have I adapted to these glasses to the degree that I need them, or did my eyes likely get worse because I need stronger glasses already. I thought it already strange that I am 35 and needed correction for distance. Can my nearsightedness be getting worse?

Cactus Jack 24 Mar 2015, 07:49


Posture has no known effect on vision.

Astigmatism is typically caused by uneven curvature of the front surface of the Cornea. The cause of the uneven curvature appears to be caused by uneven stress on the cornea, but the actual cause of that is unknown. Astigmatism, itself, changes very slowly, but the portion of the eye exam that determines the Axis is very subjective. The accuracy of the Axis angle depends greatly on the skill of the patient in detecting relative blurriness rather than comparing image sharpness. That can show up as large Axis changes between exams.

There is a simple way to improve Axis angle accuracy, if you are interested.

It is not known and it is very doubtful that looking out of the corner of you eyes has any effect on Astigmatism or Vision.

Do you wear or need vision correction?


question 24 Mar 2015, 00:14

While we are at it, does looking out the corner of your eye for long periods of time induce astigmatism?

Tom1 24 Mar 2015, 00:11

I have a question, too. How does a person with a lazy eye see? Which is her eyesight if she covers the "good" eye? Is something similar to nearsighted blur, but it can't be corrected with lenses? Very curious about this. Thanks for explaining (and even better if someone with a lazy eye could post his experience).

question 24 Mar 2015, 00:05

How does bad posture make vision permanently worse?

Kris 23 Mar 2015, 16:59


I'm surprised your ECP was concerned about how quickly you adapted to prism. I don't know enough about it, but I thought the dependence was a given and something you just accept if you wear prisms. What are others experiences here? It's interesting that he wants you to take breaks from the prisms and i would be interested in the theory for this. Are you going to try to go without prisms again?

I'm thinking more and more that I need to seriously consider prisms for my vision. I tried Cactus Jack's test to see how much prism diopter deviation I have and I'm consistently coming up with 24-25 pd at distance with my glasses on. I can't really fuse the images again after I try the test and think that I just start ignoring the image from my right eye to get single vision back. I'm not going to try the test again for awhile as I'm still having issues with double vision after trying the test earlier tonight. It's like I've given my eyes permission to stop trying to fuse and now am working harder to see. I am going to monitor symptoms for the next few weeks and then may ask for more info from my ECP.

Adam 23 Mar 2015, 10:31

Yeah thank you both for the advice. I will be looking at trying on some frames as soon as I can, I guess the next thing is trying to find a pair that I like and suit me!

Julian 23 Mar 2015, 09:28

Adam: Cactus Jack's advice is sound, as always: get the glasses you need, and try wearing them full time for a couple of weeks or so. That way you'll know better how much you need them and how much of the time.

Cactus Jack 23 Mar 2015, 09:11


Your visual environment is probably an important factor, but maybe not the most important factor. Your constant requirement to focus close may have revealed some mild axial or true myopia or actually caused some Pseudo or False Myopia. You are a bit too old for your visual environment to have caused or exacerbated Axial Myopia. Both types of myopia cause exactly the same symptoms and require the same correction.

Let me think about your situation and I may have a suggestion or two.


Adam 23 Mar 2015, 06:10

Hi I am 30 years old and work for a financial company, so do spend most of my day at a computer screen. I do also use a tablet at home as well, could this be why my eyesight has got worse?

Cactus Jack 22 Mar 2015, 19:58


There are many factors that affect visual comfort.

May I ask your age and occupation? Do you use a computer, tablet, or smartphone very much?


Jan 22 Mar 2015, 18:44


A few days ago you wondered about the progression in my prescription. My ECP didn't give me any indication orginally, so I went back and he was surprised to hear about the progression and the quick adaptation, which he considered too fast. Upon brief retest, he arrived at a correction of now 8 dptr BO in total (currently: 6 BO). However, he is reluctant to adjust the prescription too quickly. The key problem seems to be that I wasn't able to fuse the cross (vertical and horizontal bars) without prismatic correction at all.

He saw this as an indication for reduced muscle control and asked me to try using my old non-prism glasses at off-days and weekends to train my muscle control system. I tried it for one day, but my eyes constantly drifted into their off-position, especially as soon as I stopped concentrating on something specific. Eventually I gave in and fell back to the prism glasses, which were a great relief. After that I had muscle tensions for another day, so I didn't revisit that exercise since.

Instead of using non-prism glasses to train the eye muscles, couldn't I use glasses with slightly reduced correction, or is that a recipe for disaster? Has anyone had experience with losing the ability to fuse entirely after being prescribed prisms?

Any thoughts are welcome.



Adam  22 Mar 2015, 15:08

Hi thanks for your reply no it only stated -0.50 for each eye with the rest blank.

Even though I only thought I would need them got driving at night, I might find some benefit of wearing them at other times? The optician wasn't to clear on this. I have noticed my eyes feeling tired in the evenings, would they help with this? Yes these would be my first glasses when I get them.

Cactus Jack 22 Mar 2015, 14:01



Visual comfort is the key. I suggest, if you get them and you probably should, you should wear them full time for about 2 weeks and then decide when you want to wear them. The 2 weeks of full time wear does 2 important things. One, It gives you a chance to become comfortable wearing glasses and lets your friends and family get used to seeing you wearing glasses. Two, it allows your brain to get used to working with higher quality images. Vision actually occurs in the brain and the brain has amazing image processing capabilities. If the brain knows what something is supposed to look like, it can correct what you see, within limits of time and available energy. Your brain uses a lot of energy anyway, but has to use a lot more to correct fuzzy images. Glasses do the correction optically and allow your eyes to deliver high quality images to your brain, where little further processing is required.

You did not list your complete prescription. If there is any Cylinder and Axis listed, in addition to the Sphere correction of -0.50. That is a very important comfort factor.

If these are your first glasses, I usually suggest getting them from a local optical retailer so they can be fitted properly. Many of us order inexpensive glasses from an online retailer such as Zenni Optical. When you decide you would like to try ordering online, we can help you save a lot of money.

If you have more questions, please feel free to ask.


Adam 22 Mar 2015, 10:36

I had my first eyetest in around 4 years the other day. I had been noticing difficulty while driving at night with car headlights and also with reading signs. I was given a prescription on -0.50 both eyes, if I got glasses when should I wear them, would it just be for driving at night?

Cactus Jack 22 Mar 2015, 10:32


It appears that the dominant factor in your BF's prescription is Astigmatism (Cylinder and Axis), but he has enough Myopia (Sphere correction) to make it interesting. If you add in some Exophoria (Base In Prism correction), lenses for that prescription would be hard to make and fit right to provide reasonable Acuity, but it depends on the amount of prism needed.

You did't mention his age or if he as commented on his hear vision. Depending on a number of factors, Exophoria should affect close vision more than it affects distance vision because it takes extra effort to converge and fuse images from close objects or text.

It would be helpful if he could do the Simple Prism Test I posted under the thread

It is a little harder to do the test with Exophoria than it is with Esophoria, but it should give us a number that would be useful. His visual history could also be useful.

I am not a big fan of muscle surgery because of personal experience with surgery to correct Esophoria, but sometimes that is the only viable choice. In my case, I was made aware that the type of muscle surgery I needed might not be successful and the correction might not last. It didn't. My double vision problems returned with just a few months. Apparently, the younger you are when you have the surgery, the better and more durable it is.

Having experienced the anxiety of someone using sharp objects around my eyes, I understand the reluctance for any type of eye surgery. However, most eye surgeries today are very safe and are nearly "non-events", provided the eye surgeon is very experienced in the type of surgery needed.


spectacular 21 Mar 2015, 15:15

My boyfriends prescription is L-1.75x-3.50x56 R-3.00x-3.00x130 as of 2013. His right eye turns outward and says it affects his distance vision. At his last exam we asked about prisms and the doctor suggested surgery. Thats not going to happen. We are going to a different doctor and wonder what we could say that would encourage his prescription to include prisms? He does not even drive because of this.

Thank you eyescene readers for any suggestions.

Kris 19 Mar 2015, 19:27


I would suggest trying to wear them full time for a couple of weeks and see how it works for you. When I was prescribed glasses at 38 I would take them on and off and found that I never felt like I had comfortable vision. I finally decided to wear them full-time for a couple of weeks to adapt to the prescription and I ended up a full-time wearer. It took me a couple of weeks to get completely used to the prescription (my initial prescription was R +1.25 L +0.75, so similar to yours). I felt sea sick for the first few days, but got over that. Even though your astigmatism correction is fairly low, wearing your glasses will probably lessen any eye strain you are feeling.

As to whether or not to go up on the prescription, it's hard to say. I notice small changes in my prescription so would probably go up but others are much less sensitive to that small a change (or so my ECP tells me).

Frank 19 Mar 2015, 19:07

Just went to the Eye Doctor and the Sphere of my prescription increased by +.25 in my right eye. I have had glasses for a few years, but only wear them sporadically. In some cases when I put them on late in the day it can be challenging to adjust to them. When I first got my last pair, I tried to wear them all the time and my eyes were worn out after two days. I am guessing that I never got used to them.

My new prescription is:

OD Sphere +1.00 Cylinder -0.50 30

OS Sphere +0.75 Cyinlder -.50 160

The Eye Doctor said at 35 the muscles in my eye may still resist the prescription whereas I will be more reliant on it as I get older. I had two questions. 1. Is it worth getting new glasses for just a 0.25 sphere increase and 2. Should I attempt to wear them full time and allow myself time to adjust to them.


Kris 18 Mar 2015, 16:20


My right eye turned in as a child so I wore glasses from 3-7 years of age and had eye surgery on my right eye when I was 4. I didn't wear glasses again until I was 38 (I'm now 44). My current prescription is Right eye +1.75 cyl -0.5, left eye +1, Add 2.25. My add has gone up annually because I complain of eyestrain, although I could still read the lowest line of the near vision test with my old prescription. I use a computer as part of my work, but most of my day involves interacting with others. Most weeks I only spend a couple of hours a day on the computer at work.

Cactus Jack 18 Mar 2015, 16:13


I read your post on the Hyperopia thread. Not need to repeat anything you said there, but please post your complete prescription. I have written quite a bit about prism and posted it on the Vision and Spex website. Hyperopia and Strabismus often go together and it seems to be relatively common for people who had muscle surgery in childhood for strabismus to re-develop Strabismus in adulthood.

May I ask where you live?


Cactus Jack 18 Mar 2015, 16:03


Am I to understand that you have had strabismus surgery when you were younger? It would help a great deal if you could provide a bit more about your visual history and your current prescription..


Kris 18 Mar 2015, 13:44

Thanks Cactus Jack,

My issues with double vision seem to be more at mid distance. I've had issues with conference room presentations as well as small auditorium presentations. This includes occasional issues with double vision when watching TV (anywhere from 5 feet to 30 feet away). My near issues are more with eye fatigue, to the point that I haven't been able to read my computer screen anymore (I've been putting long hours in recently for a work project). Double vision is more likely to occur if I've turned my head to look at something vs looking at it straight on.

I'm trying to understand what to expect, since most online information speaks more to the childhood issues of strabismus. I do wonder if having had eye surgery is going to come back to cause problems as I age. Since the experts don't really describe what to expect, I thought I'd see what people's personal experiences are with needing prism vs managing without (understanding that this may be different than my experience). I don't really understand whether prism is inevitable for me or if I can manage without.

Cactus Jack 18 Mar 2015, 06:50


Base Out prism makes the outer edges thicker and the inner edges thinner. It depends on many factors, mostly lens width, but BO prism will increase the outer edge thickness by about 1 mm per prism diopter. I believe Zenni can go up to 5 BO in each eye, but i am not sure. You prescription may limit what they can do.


Cactus Jack 18 Mar 2015, 06:45


Double vision, where the eyes try to turn inward, falls into two categories. They are Esophoria and Esotropia. The medical definition of the two is more complex than this one, but maybe this will help. Esophoria is a condition where the eyes try to turn inward, but with concentration and effort, you can fuse the images. Esotropia is a condition where you cannot fuse the images no mater how hard you try. Often, Esotropia is caused by a brain injury, stroke, or other brain trauma. Esophoria can be caused by Eye Positioning Muscle Imbalance where one muscle in the pair is stronger than the other, Trauma to the Cranial Nerves that control the muscles, or difficulties in the Eye Positioning Muscle Control Center in the brain.

You appear to have what is called Fatigue Esophoria because most to the time, you can fuse the images, unless you are tired and / or are not concentrating on what you are looking at. Without a definite control signal from your brain, if your inside muscles are stronger than your outside muscles, your eyes will drift inward or converge causing double vision. Curiously, my experience had been if I concentrate too hard on fusing the images, the double vision often gets worse. Also, if I have nothing to look at or the images are blurry, my eyes will try to cross. Image quality helps your Eye Muscle Positioning System work better because the brain actually has no idea where your eyes are pointing. Instead, it needs to have two good images to match up. The better the image quality, apparently, the stronger the muscle control signals and the easier it is to keep the images fused.

You specifically mentioned that you have double vision during some Power Point presentations, but you did not indicate if you are watching the presentation on your computer (close) or projected on a screen (distant). Power Point presentations are notorious for causing mind numbing boredom, though the cause is often the narration that accompanies the images rather than the images themselves. Often, if you have no choice but to attend the presentation, there is nothing you can do about a boring presentation except try to stay awake and tough it out. Hopefully, if you drift off to sleep, you won't snore and wake the other bored members of the audience.

I hope this helps.


motard 18 Mar 2015, 00:06

While prisms are currently on topic. How much of and what direction can be addedto beef up outer lens edges and be tolerated? I'm at -8 right and -6.75 right in 1.57 index. The 1.5 index (cr39) isn't a selectable option at zenni to increase lense thickness at rx previous said

Kris 17 Mar 2015, 23:42

Thanks Cactus Jack,

I'm most likely to see double when I watching presentations (power point, slide presentations). Why would this be the case? Does it have something to do with prolonged focus on a fixed point? I can usually re-fuse the images, but last week was at a presentation where I couldn't re-fuse and had to rest my eyes or cover one eye for much of the presentation (I was tired that day).


Cactus Jack 17 Mar 2015, 20:47

Kris and Jan,

A while back I posted a Simple Prism Test on the Vision and Spex site under Special Lenses for Eye Conditions > Prisms. It is down near the bottom of the list. The test works quite well to help you get an idea of how much prism you really need. The test appears crude, but it uses Sir Isaac Newton's definition of a Prism Diopter.

I have worn Base Out prism for many years and have had muscle surgery (that didn't work). In general, until you get near 10 BO in each eye, prism is barely noticeable other than increased thickness in the outer edges of the lenses. It is customary when prescribing prism to give the minimum that that solves the problem, most of the time. The reason for this is that it is very easy to adapt to Base Out (BO) prism because it allows your eyes to converge as if you were looking at something closer than say 20 feet or 6 meters away and once you get used to a certain level of BO prism, you may discover that you actually need more prism. Some people think prism is almost addictive, but my experience has been that what appears to be addiction is actually caused by under correction.

Incidentally, the amount of angular deflection of your eyes is only 0.57 angular degrees per Prism Diopter.


Kris 17 Mar 2015, 20:26


From what my ECP explained to me it sounds like the least amount of prism needed for comfortable vision is prescribed and is only a portion of what would fully correct the deviation. He made it sound like the prescription would inevitably go up, but really depends on the individual.

I have debated whether I should explore having prism with my ECP, but am not ready to give up wearing contacts yet. It would also add to the expense of my lenses and I'm willing to tolerate the symptoms for the time being. The last couple of weeks have been worse because I've been tired and am trying to finish a project, so have spent a lot more time than usual on the computer. I expect things will settle again once the project is gone, so will wait it out.

It sounds like things are much better for you with the new lenses, but would be interested in what your ECP told you to expect about your prism prescription.

Soundmanpt 17 Mar 2015, 10:57


No I personally don't have prisms but I am very aware of the effect that prisms have on the eyes. So I am sure these glasses are much different than any of your previous glasses.

May I ask when you were told to come back to get your eyes examined again? The prisms you received are really not very much. It's possible that is all you really need and their won't be any change coming, but it also could be that your ECP just wants to slowly take your eyes to their full prescription. So if you were told to return in say 6 months it very well could be because they will be increasing your prisms a bit more. If your past experience has shown very little change in your eyes then I don't think your eyes will change any different in that way.

It would really be a good idea to get a spare or backup pair of glasses since being without your glasses isn't an option anymore. You may want to look into ordering your glasses from Zenni. ( They are make and sell good quality glasses at a very reasonable price. They of course offer prisms as well. You shouldn't have any problem finding at least 700 pairs of glasses in your full prescription and including AR coating (anti-reflective) for under $30.00. They also do rx sunglasses as well for the exact same price. Now that your wearing your glasses full time having rx sunglasses might be nice for driving or just being out in the sun.

Cactus Jack 17 Mar 2015, 09:07


It is likely that she has what is called Amblyopia or something similar. Remember, vision occurs in the brain and the eyes are simply biological cameras. If there is a difference in image quality between the two eyes, your brain will always choose the clearer of the two images as use that as the basis for what you see. If the difference is substantial, the brain will ignore the image from the bad eye and eventually, completely ignore the image from that eye, permanently.

If Amblyopia is detected early enough, usually before age 6 or 7, it can sometimes be corrected by temporarily patching or fogging the image from good eye so the brain has no choice but to use the image from the bad eye.

The reason the timing is critical is that, with very rare exception, once the brain has "turned off" the vision from the bad eye, it will never turn it back on again, even if the vision from the bad eye is optically corrected. I know of only one reported instance where a woman who had Amblyopia in child hood and had vision in only one eye for many years, was suddenly able to see again with both eyes. She described the event as being a shock. She was getting ready to drive somewhere and as she said, the steering wheel "lept at me". I was seeing in 3D after years of 2D vision.

It is likely that the girl had no vision in one eye or had become adept at switching vision from one eye to the other.

One of our ES members was born without some of the lenses in his eyes. He is very Hyperopic and is severely cross eyed. He has vision in both eyes with glasses and he amazes doctors because he sees things on the left using his right eye and things on the right using his left eye. His brain switches from one to the other as needed, but only rarely does he see double. It usually scares him when it happens. Interestingly, he can play Goalie on his Soccer team because the ball comes to him and he can track it using one eye or the other. The fact that he is cross eyed and wears VERY strong PLUS glasses really confuses the opposing players. You can tell a lot about what a person is going to do by watching their eyes. Doesn't work with him, they can't tell where he is looking or which direction he will move.

Another member of the team is also cross eyed, but he apparently has normal stereoscopic vision without glasses because his eyes did not form correctly before he was born. He is a deadly shot and can kick the Soccer ball exactly where he wants it. Between the two of them, they drive the opposing team crazy and win most of their games.

The point is that human being are incredibly adaptive and can learn to deal with almost any vision handicap with a little help from glasses or contacts it caught and corrected early enough.


Jan 17 Mar 2015, 03:42


you summed it up very nicely - in fact very precisely. Can I assume you have similar experience? The disturbing part is that my eyes simply don't appear to work together properly anymore, at least not without glasses. They somehow seem to operate in an uncoordinated fashion if uncorrected.

You write 'Once your prescription becomes more stable ...'. Do you think the prism prescription will change further. I wouldn't expect my eyes to change much based on past experience. Do prism corrections change more frequently, or are you refering to my overall prescription in general?

I am asking because I am planning to get some spare glasses, because the perspective of breaking my pair sounds daunting.


Dude 16 Mar 2015, 18:07

Recently I saw a girl who was at the school till the past year, when she left,in that moment I reminded an old doubt I had always have abupout her eyes.

She's a girl about 11-12 yo, her eye turns in about 20 or 30 degrees and she doesn't complain of double vision at all, I just remember about 2 years ago she wore glasses for reading, but now she doesn't wear them at all, is that normal that such a crossed-eyed girl don't need glasses?

How can she have binocular vision if her eyes have such as great misalignement?

Kris 16 Mar 2015, 12:09

Thanks Jan and Soundmanpt,

I have not had a follow-up conversation with my ECP about prisms because of the issues you have described. I enjoy being able to wear contacts for sports (I play field sports including ultimate frisbee) but my ability to wear them day to day has been impacted by my need for an add. I get annual eye exams because getting my prescription right has been a bit tricky, but am not due for another exam until the fall. I've been in progressives for a little over 4.5 years and the near prescription has been increased with every exam because of eye fatigue. It wasn't that I couldn't read the near text it was that it was more comfortable with the add. Other than getting a little astigmatism correction (which really helped clarity in my right eye) my distance prescription has been fairly stable.

Up until about six months ago I could get by to read for short periods of time without glasses, but that is firmly a thing of the past now and I'm really noticing the deterioration of my near vision. I suspect that some of my eye fatigue is from my strabismus issues. I do feel that I work a bit to maintain single vision, but it's usually not too taxing. My double vision is most likely to occur when I'm tired or if I've been reading/using a computer for extended periods of time.

When I first mentioned double vision to my ECP he spoke at length about the pros and cons of prism. I suspect there will be a time when I no longer need contacts and I may revisit with him at that time. My ECP did try prism in front of my right eye to see if it helped. I recall it feeling a little more relaxed and think he said something about 10 prism diopters looking like what I may need, but I could be wrong on the number. He didn't do a full prism exam as I wasn't interested.

Without glasses my right eye turns in and I often see double. When I swim I wear my glasses onto the pool deck because I am self conscious about my eye turning in. I hate when people have me take my glasses of for appointments (i.e. dentist, hair, brow waxing) for that reason. I've definitely seen people whose eyes turn in worse than mine, but it is still noticeable especially if I'm trying to focus.

Will keep you posted if I end up getting prisms.

Soundmanpt 16 Mar 2015, 09:46


From what you describe it at least seems like your getting very close to needing prisms included in your glasses. Double vision and eye fatigue are certainly indications of it anyway.

And if your doctor has even mentioned it to you of course tells you that your going to be needing them before very long. The fact that you were bifocals and contacts even though your prescription isn't very strong probably means you wear your glasses full time except for sports. So if you do get prescribed prisms at your next eye exam your already used to wearing glasses so the only real difference for you will be much like Jan in that you will be that without your glasses your going to very quickly get double vision and a quickly developing headache.

You didn't say what types of sports you enjoy doing when you wear contacts. If the sports mainly require good distance vision then I assume you may only wear single vision contacts to correct your distance? Like I suggested to Jan, you will need to learn to wear glasses for these sports if you wish to continue to do them.

Are you planning on getting your eyes examined anytime soon?

Soundmanpt 16 Mar 2015, 09:23


So when you decided to get your eyes examined you probably were just thinking that you just needed an small increases in your glasses and everything would be fine. Prior to this I would assume you never heard of "prisms" before so you had no idea just how much they were about to impact your eyesight? Your prescription isn't all that strong and I imagine that it was even a little weaker before you got your new glasses?

As your doctor was adding in the prisms and the lines on the cross were slowly coming together your eyes were converging and once at 3 BO in each eyes everything became one and your eyes were very quickly comfortable. Once you got your glasses and started wearing them you had to be surprised at how quick they adjusted to them. But unlike your previous glasses that you had been able to take off and still see reasonably well without the now when you take off your glasses you get double vision and a quickly developing headache as well. Now when you wake up the first thing you reach for is your glasses, something new to you now.

I don't know know if your doctor mentioned it or not but they don't make contacts to correct prisms. So that won't be an option for you with sports anymore. I think you will find that your able to run and do many of the sports you enjoy while wearing your glasses. They make some decent sport straps that easily can be attached to your glasses to keep them in place so they aren't slipping down. Once your prescription becomes more stable then you may want to invest in a nice pair of sport goggles in your prescription.

You said it best when in describing the impact these glasses have made when you said "there is no going back"

It seems like you probably were wearing your previous glasses quite often anyway but you liked the option of not wearing them or wearing contacts now you can't do either of them.

Jan 15 Mar 2015, 22:11


sorry for not responding earlier. I got interrupted. My visit to the ECP was prompted by problems when reading, especially for longer duration and in the evenings. Apart from this it was time for the regular eye checkup.

Frankly, your problems sound kind of similar to mine, so that may be a solution, but I would hope that it doesn't have such impact on you as it does for me, since you have some experience with strabismus - that was new to me.

Apart from the regular tests, the ECP had me perform a test (not sure about its name) in which I should have supposedly seen a cross, but instead I saw two separate bars far apart. After trying out a lot of lenses, I saw a cross and my ECP said I should have come earlier. The vision with the lenses was incredibly comfortable and when taking them off I had a moment of double vision, but didn't really think about this as a long-term problem. That's why I jumped on it and had my lenses updated. And yes, the comfort is still brilliant but at the price of not being able to 'go back'.

I am still thinking about solutions for cases where I would want to go without glasses. Although this is rarely the case (since contacts never corrected my astigmatism fully), for longer, more extreme runs as well as swimming it would be preferable.

Yesterday I tried running with my old contacts, but as soon as I get exhausted, the images drift apart and they don't want to come together. So I ended up squinting part of the way.

I am wondering if there are 'blind' contact lenses that would allow me to only to use one lens and prevent the other eye from participating in the vision process. That would mean that I only use one eye during that time, but I think that is easier to handle than double vision. For shorter time frames that might be an option without damaging the eyes and without being visible to others?!

Still looking for solutions. Let me know how you go, but be cautious along the way.


Jan 15 Mar 2015, 01:16

Hi Cactus Jack,

thank you for your detailed response. I understand your technical explanations and I agree, it is possibly a combination of many different components, hyperopia, age and astigmatism. That definitely gives me a better understanding of how things are tied together.

However, never has the impact of switching lenses been so intense as with the addition of prisms, although they seem to be quite low compared to what I have seen on eyescene. Getting hold of my glasses is literally the first thing I do when opening my eyes nowadays, since my eyes seemed to have gotten comfortable in their misalignment. Luckily, as you write, my eyes appear to be straight through the glasses - and yes, the frames do look good. That is definitely a great relief, but the realisation of being crosseyed (although I am the only one to 'see' it) comes as a surprise - and the fact that I cannot just take the glasses off anymore and still operate (other than reading anything).

Again, thank you for your explanation. To some extent it is a relief that most prism wearers have this kind of experience. I guess I will see how things develop. I hope the prisms will not increase over time...


Kris 14 Mar 2015, 14:26


Can I ask what prompted the need for the prism? I'm farsighted as well, and have occasional issues with double vision. I had surgery and wore glasses as a child for strabismus. My optometrist has mentioned that I may need prisms at some point, but I have avoided it because of the issues you mention. I use contacts for sports and don't want to have to use glasses. My prescription currently is Right eye 1.75, cyl -0.5, Left eye 1.0; with a 2.25 add. I have some issues with headaches and eye fatigue and am not sure if prisms are part of the solution or not.

Cactus Jack 13 Mar 2015, 23:46


We probably should be discussing this on the Hyperopia and Presbyopia Progression Thread.

You are experiencing some of the many and confusing symptoms of Hyperopia, combined with Astigmatism, Presbyopia, and one of the types of Strabismus known as Esophoria. Now that I have scared you with a bunch of medical terms, let me ease your mind a little, you are not alone. several million others have experienced similar symptoms and survived comfortably. I forgot a couple of other questions that would help, but they are only of minor importance. They are How long have you worn glasses? What was your previous prescription? and What was the time interval between this prescription and your previous one?

Lets start with the basic problem, Hyperopia or Far or Long Sightedness because it affects almost everything else. Hyperopia, the 1st number (Sphere) in your prescription, is the only Refractive Error that affects the eye that can be corrected internally, using the Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses, often without your being aware of it. Hyperopia is caused by a mismatch between the Total Power of your Eye’s lens system (around +58) and the distance between the back of the lens system and your retina. Typically around 17 mm. If your eyeball is too short, you have Hyperopia, and distant images focus behind the retina and close images focus even farther back. BTW the actual distances are very short, about 0.3 mm per Sphere diopter. Attritional PLUS is needed to move the focus point forward to the retina. This PLUS can be supplied by the Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses unless Presbyopia complicates that by making it difficult for the Ciliary Muscles to squeeze the Crystalline Lenses to produce the extra PLUS. In those instances, external PLUS is required using Glasses or Contact Lenses.

A complicating factor is Astigmatism, as indicated by the 2nd (Cylinder) and 3rd (Axis) numbers in your prescription. Astigmatism is caused by uneven curvature of the front surface of the Cornea. Astigmatism actually causes the eye to have two different focus distances which thoroughly confuse your focus control system, because it produces blurry images at all distances. The only tools the Focus Control System has are the Ciliary Muscles, but they cannot correct the refractive errors caused by Astigmatism, but it tries anyway causing fatigue.

A further complication is the gradual onset of Presbyopia. The idea that Presbyopia does not begin until 40 is a myth. Presbyopia actually begins in childhood, but typically does not become a problem until later. Most babies are born with quite a bit of Hyperopia because their eyeballs are small to fit in their small heads. Fortunately, most babies also have VERY flexible Crystalline Lenses that have about the stiffness of gelatin dessert which the Ciliary Muscles can squeeze to deliver exceptional Accommodation Range. That is why you often see young children reading or coloring effortlessly with the page very close to their eyes. As we get older, the eyeballs grow AND the Crystalline Lenses gradually get stiffer. This typically does not cause a problem until the late 30s or early 40s unless the individual winds up with Hyperopia or they need to focus very close as they do with the tiny text on cell phones or tablets. At some point Presbyopia reduces the Accommodation Range and some of the remaining Accommodation Range is used up to compensate for Hyperopia and the need to focus close, collide and the result is headaches and fatigue. Often, all that is needed to initially solve the problem is PLUS glasses with Astigmatism Correction (if needed). However, that does not stop or mitigate the gradual onset of Presbyopia, but it may allow your eyes to recover the Accommodation that was being used to correct the Hyperopia and delay the need for bifocals or progressives for a few years.

There is, potentially, another complicating factor that can enter the picture, if Hyperopia is NOT externally corrected. There is an interconnection in the brain between the Focus Control System and the Eye Positioning System. In most instances this interconnection is beneficial. When you focus close, your eyes have to converge to keep the two images fused. If they did not, you would see double. The strength of this interconnection varies with individuals and is, to some extent, “programable”. When the Focus Control Systems uses the Ciliary Muscles to add PLUS internally, the interconnection causes the eyes to converge (or cross a little bit) to keep the images fused. If the PLUS is being added to correct distance vision the interconnection will cause your eyes to turn inward or converge and you will see double if the interconnection is strong, because the Eye Positioning System does not know why the PLUS is being added. Often if the interconnection is strong, or there is some muscle imbalance, Base Out (BO) prism is used to fuse the images even when the Hyperopia is corrected with glasses.

It takes a lot of effort and energy to maintain fusion when the Eye Positioning System is trying to respond to the convergence signal from the Focus Control System.

Your glasses allow your Ciliary Muscles to relax and the Prism helps your Eye Positioning System to relax. It does not take long for your brain and these systems to get used to the reduced workload, which is why you feel more relaxed and less fatigued with your glasses. Without your glasses, the focus effort from your Hyperopia and the uncorrectable blur from your Astigmatism, just add to your eyes convergence tendency and blurry, double vision results.

Remember, vision actually occurs in the brain and the eyes are merely biological cameras. Your brain has amazing image correction capability if it knows what something is supposed to look like, but it takes a lot of effort and engergy. If you quit wearing your glasses, your brain will go back to work correcting the images, but it will take longer to go back to where it was and there will be some complaints.

In another context, how long does it take to get used to a really comfortable pair of shoes and what happens when you have to go back to wearing shoes that are much less comfortable, but fit the social situation better. If you are like me, I can hardly wait to get comfortable again, once I know what it feels like. Same way with glasses, you are really not helping anything by not wearing your glasses. You really need them full time and in all situations. BTW, no one really notices the lenses with your prescription, only the frames. Make sure they look good on you.


Jan 13 Mar 2015, 20:06

If forgot: My age is 32.

Jan 13 Mar 2015, 20:05

Hi Cactus Jack,

thank you for your response.

My prescription is

OD +2, -1.5 cyl., 3 prisms BO

OS +1.5, -1 cyl., 3 prisms BO

I don't doubt that the prescription is right. In fact it feels spot on. It just makes working 'without' glasses quite hard despite the fact that it is so low.


Cactus Jack 13 Mar 2015, 06:39


Please post your complete prescription and your age. All elements are necessary to understand and explain the symptoms you have described.


Jan 13 Mar 2015, 04:36

Hi guys,

Recently I got a new prescription with prism lenses 3 BO on each side. I wasn't quite sure about the consequences until experiencing it. I have worn them for a few weeks now and I must say that Good and Bad seem come in pairs. My vision is amazingly relaxed (although the clarity is slightly worse) with the new lenses and I am much less fatigued after work.

BUT the vision without glasses is undescribably bad - way worse than before (am farsighted with astigmatism). My eyes constantly drift into double vision. I can bring the images together, but they are very fuzzy and it causes immediate headache. To see something I need to 'let go' and concentrate on one image, because the individual images are sharper than the combined one. It feels as if my eyes simply don't seem to work together anymore which had never been a problem before (other than my regular prescription). I am wearing glasses most of the time, but there are times one would want to do 'without', such as swimming.

Don't get me wrong, the vision WITH glasses is very comfortable, but is there a way of 'going back', especially since I have worn prisms only for a few weeks. Or is my experience typical in the beginning and will become easier?

Cactus Jack 11 Mar 2015, 20:52

Brain Trauma cannot cause eyeball growth that I know of, but it could damage the Focus Control Center or the Eye Positioning Control System in the brain. Vision actually occurs in the brain. The Visual Cortex where vision occurs is located near the back of the brain and that could be damaged. The Optic Nerves and the Retinas are actually part of the brain and those could be damaged. Vision and how it works is a complex system, the optics of the eye are a minor component to the process.

Head Trauma is never a good thing. If the focus control system is damaged, a person may lose their ability to focus close and have to use multifocal glasses to see with reasonable clarity at all distances. If the Eye Positioning Conrol System or the Cranial Nerves that control the 12 eye positioning muscles get damaged, Prism Glasses may be necessary to prevent double vision. Those are just two of the possible outcomes of serious head trauma.

Physical damage to the eyes is another possibility with retinal detachment or lens damage.


question 11 Mar 2015, 20:33

To those who are aware, sometimes head injuries like a concussion can bring about permanent changes in vision and glasses prescription. Does anyone understand why that is? Do head injuries induce growth of the eyeball or what?

Cactus Jack 11 Mar 2015, 05:52

The obvious thing is that it would be uncomfortable and if cold enough, damaging. I don't know of any eye condition that is treated with cold packs, but that does not mean that they don't exist. Ice packs, whose surface temperature is greater than 32 F or 0 C, may be helpful for some types of headaches.


 10 Mar 2015, 23:48

what do you think applying ice to the eye for extended periods of time would do?

Cactus Jack 10 Mar 2015, 12:10


Is the -3.25, with cylinder -1 your actual prescription? 1.5 BO is so small it should be almost un-noticeable. It could be that the PD is off, but I don't have enough information to make a judgement. 1.5 BO in each eye is nothing compared to the amount of convergence you do anytime you look at something close.

I have a few more questions, but I need to know about your educational background and occupation before getting into a technical discussion of how the eye positioning system works.


Joe 10 Mar 2015, 09:04


Sorry - it's not like much of an headache ,

But it feel strange - when I put the glasses on !

For 10-15 minutes.

Joe 10 Mar 2015, 09:04


Sorry - it's not like much of an headache ,

But it feel strange - when I put the glasses on !

For 10-15 minutes.

Cactus Jack 10 Mar 2015, 08:32

Oops, The last post was from me.


 10 Mar 2015, 08:27


You left a word out. Do you get the headache when you put the glasses on or off?


Joe 10 Mar 2015, 08:16

Hi cactus jack,

It is 1.5BO Per eye.

Don't seem to have problems with double vision at all.

When I put the glasses I get headache for 15 minutes, but then everything is fine.

I'm 23 BTW.


John S 09 Mar 2015, 23:41

A friend of mine that I work with is 32. He had been complaining about his vision for the last few months. He said he had trouble reading signs at night, but his laptop screen wasn't real clear either. We use our laptops at work quite a bit for troubleshooting. He had said a few times that he thought he needed glasses. It finally bothered him enough that a week ago he asked me if he could try my glasses.

I suspected that he was probably myopic and had astigmatism, so I had never volunteered my glasses. I thought they would just make his vision worse. I kind of wondered when he tried them, why he didn't rip them off his face right away. I got the answer to that.

The next day I checked his vision with my trial lens set and I was really surprised. His distance rx was +0.75 -0.75 X 180, +1.00 -0.75 X 40.

I also had some handheld flipper lenses. I gave him +1.00 lenses to put on top of his distance rx, and asked him to look at his computer. He said it wasn't as clear. It turned out that he had the lenses upside down so he was actually using the -1.00 lenses. Now that he was using the plus side, he said the screen looked bigger and clearer with the +1.00 add, so then I tried a +1.50. I was pretty sure he was going to say they were too strong. But instead, he didn't say anything and just stared at the screen for a minute. Then he said the +1.50 lenses made the screen bigger than the +1.00 lenses did, and it was really clear. He couldn't believe how clear the screen was.

Cactus Jack 09 Mar 2015, 17:39


Not much chance. You did not mention if it was 1.5 BO in each eye, but I will assume that it is. 1.5 BO will cause or allow each eye to turn inward (converge) less than 1 angular degree when viewing distant objects, Convergence is a natural function when looking at objects closer than about 20 feet or 6 meters.

If you are mathematically inclined and are familiar with Trigonometric Functions you can use the Definition of a Prism Diopter, stated by Sir Isaac Newton, as that amount of prism that will displace a ray of light 1 cm at a distance of 1 meter, to calculate the amount of convergence necessary to fuse images at various distances from your eyes.

Are you experiencing any double vision problems either with or without your glasses?


Joe 09 Mar 2015, 15:37

Hi all,

My name is joe from Israel.

I have about -3.25 with -1 cyl in both eyes prescription.

Recently I got a pair that I order from zenni that had 1.5 BO prism.

It is extremely nice to have them - but I want to ask you, if there is any chance of harming my eyes with that amount of prisms.


Cactus Jack 09 Mar 2015, 13:13


Hyperopia is much more common than most people think. Hyperopia is the ONLY refractive error that a person can correct internally using their Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses, often without even being aware that they are doing it. The thing that is different today is the extensive use of Smartphones and Tablets, often with very small text on the displays.

That causes a user to hold the display closer to read the small text and frequently, the discovery that they cannot focus that close, sometimes even in the teens. The solution is PLUS glasses or even bifocals and the further discovery of Latent Hyperopia after a few months of wear.

I saw the 16 year old son of a friend at a luncheon last summer, wearing low plus (+1.00 or less) glasses. I asked him about them and he said he was a little farsighted and was getting headaches when he read or used his phone very much. He also said that he had some astigmatism and the glasses really helped him comfortably do his school work. I explained that the astigmatism was causing most of the discomfort.

I saw him again at Christmas time and he was wearing very similar frames, but the increased plus (+2.00?) was obvious to an OO. I didn't get a chance to ask him about about his new glasses, but I noticed that he had absolutely no inclination to take them off for any reason and he effortlessly read the screen on his phone at a distance of about 7 inches or about 18 cm and had no problems with his distance vision.

The world has really changed since I was 16. Needing glasses was almost a disability back then. Today, glasses are so common that the question is almost "Why aren't you wearing glasses. Is there something wrong with you?"


SC 09 Mar 2015, 12:11

BBC carried this article which is similar to one that was covered in Singapore a few years ago.

Mostly blames lack of sunlight for myopia - as we live more inside/screen based lives then we become short-sighted. Singapore study said that most children sleep at lunchtime and so miss out on the sun.

I've felt for some time that the key 'genetic' factor was that if your parents wear glasses they are more likely to take you to the eye doctor to get your eyes tested and hence you end up with glasses!

No word on hyperopia causes although wearing plus lenses is booming

Soundmanpt 09 Mar 2015, 09:50

Olivia and Antonio

The reason they take your glasses away from you is so they can read the prescription off the lenses of your glasses. That gives the doctor a good starting point for examining your eyes instead of starting from scratch.

Just as the two of you are comparing notes about your visits to get your eyes examined as you can see that not only you 2 had the same experience but nearly everyone else before you and after you. So there is no need to feel embarrised. Anyone that has more than a very weak prescription is going to find things blurry without their glasses.

Soundmanpt 09 Mar 2015, 09:34


That optician is very rude and out of line for making a such a comment about your eyes having gotten worse. First of all if you started wearing glasses as a kid and your still even under -6.00 and your 29 now means that your increases over those years all must have been rather small or your prescription would be far worse than it is. The fact that your still able to go for 2 years between prescription changes is really good and most likely your increases are just to sharpen your vision up some.

You really shouldn't be so shy about wearing your glasses in public. If you look around i'm sure you will notice how many are now wearing glasses. Glasses have really become for many women a fashion staple these days. Now is the best time ever to start wearing your glasses outside of your house.

Antonio 09 Mar 2015, 09:02

Hi Olivia.

Yes. Last time I felt similar as you did. They asked for my glasses to measure them, took them to another table to measure them and after that I didn.t know where they put them because of the blur surounding my eyes. Probably not really far from me, but I didn.t get it.I felt embarrassed and had to wait until the eyedoc put a lens in front of one of my eyes finally to start the measurements. Fortunately after all they handed them back to me, so I hadn.t to ask for them.

Antonio 09 Mar 2015, 08:47

Hi Meg. Yes I feel the same. Definitely it.s nerve wracking to go to the optician.

I always hated to try to read the eyechart unaided first as I knew I was in a bad Position there. If your optician makes nasty comments on top you should think about a change. How strong are your lenses now ?

My eyes have gone that bad over years I only can read the big E of the eyechart now I think. But i still know the Problems to decide which lense is better in the end. Sometimes nearly undecidable.

Best regards Antonio

Olivia 09 Mar 2015, 08:32

I also hate getting my eyes tested, especially as a kid, mainly because my prescription gets worse every time.

Nowadays, I feel really uncomfortable without my glasses. Sitting there while they check my glasses makes me feel really vulnerable and its pretty embarrassing when the optometrist finds out how blind I am. Then there is the eye puff thing, gosh, I hate it.

Maggie 09 Mar 2015, 03:20

My doctor is actually really nice. I hated the eye doc I had as a kid, but I like the one I've been seeing for the past several years. The guy in her office who does the autorefraction before I see her makes comments though. "Oh wow you're eyes have gotten worse! Almost minus 6!"

I'm 29 and still get increases at least every couple years. I know my eyes could be much worse, and at least I can see well in contacts or glasses, but I have a hard time wearing my glasses in public, and I am pretty useless without correction even at home.

Soundmanpt 08 Mar 2015, 10:25


For both you and Meg to complain about your optometrist making any comment about your eyes getting worse seems somewhat unprofessional. I can only assume he / she is just commenting based on what was read off your lenses of your current glasses and the prescription your eyes need now? But I am sure if your under 20 years of age even before he / she starts to examine your eyes they he / she already knows your going to need an increase. Probably 97% of his / her patients under 20 need some increase.

Soundmanpt 08 Mar 2015, 10:14


I think it is very common for most everyone to be a bit nervous going to see any doctor, be it the dentist or your MD.

So being nervous getting your eye examined makes sense as well. I know that the which is better test can drive most crazy and can be very hard to tell much difference, just remember if your having that much trouble telling the difference then whichever you choose is going to be okay. Also your paying for the exam and if you have to repeat it 10 times so be it. And if you still can't tell any difference don't be afraid to tell the doctor that.

Melyssa 08 Mar 2015, 08:23

I am not nervous at my annual eye exam. Perhaps it's because I have been at -9.00 for over 20 years now. Then again, it could be that having a handsome optometrist doesn't hurt. :) Actually, the only thing that bothers me is that with the eye drops dilating my eyes, I have difficulty seeing with all that bright light, even on cloudy days, for several hours afterwards, which is why my husband drives me to and from the place.

Eyestein 08 Mar 2015, 03:42

@Maggie, Meg, and Anita

Think about all those other people out there with -9 and stronger. Even -12 is not that uncommon apparently because contact lenses for up to -12 are available 'off the shelf'.

Maggie 07 Mar 2015, 22:28

I feel self conscious too Meg! Especially since my eyes are bad at -5.75 and I almost always have a little increase. It's like, why are you telling my how bad my eyes are, I know they are and I can't help it, LOL.

meg 07 Mar 2015, 15:58

Is it just me or does anyone else find eye tests quite nerve wracking. I seem to get a really dry mouth during the test and feel very self conscious. I think this then affects my ability tomake the right choice between the lenses as I don't think that I'm.paying enough attention and don't know how many times its acceptable to ask them to repeat the choices - which I I usually do on a few occasions. I don't think KT helped this time when I had my eyes tested when the optician blurted out Gosh your eyesight isn't good when I finished reading off the chart unaided.

Soundmanpt 06 Mar 2015, 10:42


If it seems to you that more people are wearing glasses now than say 5 years ago the reason it seems that way is because there is more people now wearing glasses then 5 years ago. The number of people that has perfect or 20/20 vision is constantly being reduced each day. On top of that your only sighting the people you see wearing glasses now consider how many others might be wearing contacts instead of glasses and you might even be more shocked. So like I tell others that wear glasses, your in the majority now. Do you feel like wearing glasses has had an adverse effect on your social life? I really doubt that there are many guys out there that object to their girlfriend wearing glasses and if they do, well then you shouldn't be interested on that guy anyway. Back in my dating days, i'm 66 now, it was rather hard to find a girl that wore glasses. Today it would be even harder to find one that doesn't wear glasses. Like one of the others said because your 25 your glasses shouldn't get much stronger than they are now. Your vision should be close to becoming stable by now.

Aubrac 06 Mar 2015, 10:05

Sorry but don't know why this came through twice

Aubrac 06 Mar 2015, 10:03


Pleae don't beat yourself up about your level of myopia.

It is purely a physical thing, namely during body growth some parts growth at different rates and so we have longer or shorter arms, different size hands,etc, and our eyes are just one part of that process. And this can reult in differing degrees of short or long sight.

There have been for years many people who do not acknowledge their need for glasses and only now when there is no stigma attached to wearing glasses, are they quite happy to wear glasses and actually see clearly what is going on around them.

There should be no implied weakness about needing glasses because physically your eyeball shape results in long or short sight, just as if you have small or big feet, this is just how you have grown.

I live near an English school in the UK and today saw the new influx of students, mostly from South America, and about 70% are wearing glasses.

Possibly 80% of the UK population need some form of visual correction, but only now are people accepting this, and even high levels of myopia have been tolerated by many people.

No fun going around in a fog and missing everything going on around you, just put your glasses on and enjoy. There will always be someone with stronger glasses than yours.

Aubrac 06 Mar 2015, 10:03


Pleae don't beat yourself up about your level of myopia.

It is purely a physical thing, namely during body growth some parts growth at different rates and so we have longer or shorter arms, different size hands,etc, and our eyes are just one part of that process. And this can reult in differing degrees of short or long sight.

There have been for years many people who do not acknowledge their need for glasses and only now when there is no stigma attached to wearing glasses, are they quite happy to wear glasses and actually see clearly what is going on around them.

There should be no implied weakness about needing glasses because physically your eyeball shape results in long or short sight, just as if you have small or big feet, this is just how you have grown.

I live near an English school in the UK and today saw the new influx of students, mostly from South America, and about 70% are wearing glasses.

Possibly 80% of the UK population need some form of visual correction, but only now are people accepting this, and even high levels of myopia have been tolerated by many people.

No fun going around in a fog and missing everything going on around you, just put your glasses on and enjoy. There will always be someone with stronger glasses than yours.

Melyssa 06 Mar 2015, 06:04


First off, I have a pair of drop-temples, brown plastic frames with silver metal connectors, with the name of the frame being Anita. If the link works, these are those:

Getting back to your comment, when I was your age (back in the 1980s) my prescription was pretty close to yours, on the way to an eventual -9.00 by age 36. And as Crystal Veil said, back then we women wore mainly big and bold plastic frames, although it seemed clear frames were the most popular. I would say that about half of my college classmates wore glasses, either full-time or part-time, all of whom were nearsighted.

In my part of the universe now, the so-called "hipster" frames have not made much of an appearance, as little metal, rimless, and occasionally black plastic frames are still in the majority, boring as they are. While I do not recall what percentage of people I know or see wear glasses, there are a lot of farsighted individuals (in the 50-and-over crowd) who need glasses for up-close activities.

Crystal Veil 04 Mar 2015, 16:37


you are right about the spread of short sight but there are other factors at work as well. The taboo on glasses has gone since the sudden wave of the hipster style, about four years ago. During the two decades before that, all glasses frames were tiny and discrete. In fact, rather dull, as if glasses are something to hide. It was different during the 1970's and 1980's (the heyday of large, adventurous frames) when glasses were a way of expression for those who felt the need. Contact lenses were available for those who hated glasses but they were more primitive than they are nowadays so many ladies chose for glasses, even if the lenses were quite thick. You have minus six and in those days, your lenses would have been twice as thick. But everyone was in the same boat so it really did not matter. There were many shortsighted people in those days but their options were different than they are now. Your minus six was considered acceptable in the 1970's and 1980's. It's good that it's acceptable now again. By the way, there is little chance that you will need much stronger glasses in the future. At 25, things tend to stabilize.

Anita 04 Mar 2015, 13:31

I can't believe how many people are now wearing glasses and they have a shortsighted prescription. My eyes are disgusting for a 25 year old -6.00 so I'm use to wearing glasses. Only 5 years ago there wasn't that many shortsighted people. We have accepted glasses so shortsightednes is normal right? Who would have thought its ore fashionable to wear glasses now

SC 26 Feb 2015, 15:07


You make an interesting point. I feel dependent on glasses but relatively my distance vision is good. I have a +1 Rx, and so equates with -1, the sort of prescription that teenagers would start with at school, perhaps even slightly better with a bit of accommodation.

I would imagine if my vision had gone slightly blurry over a long period of time, and I could see up to 2 metres well, then I wouldn't wear glasses much either.

But it doesn't feel like that. The day I was prescribed a distance Rx, I could read some letters on the 6/5 line, so my distance vision had been good, although I was suffering when tired. Within a couple of weeks I was forced to wear glasses because of headaches and my distance vision only became blurry after a few months. So I've never had a period of tolerating the blur - good vision without glasses, good vision with glasses (headaches without), so keep the glasses on and feel dependent. Four years on, I've lost the bottom 4 lines on Snellen now, although I guess with hard concentration or 10 minutes blinking and squinting, I'd get two back - this what your relatives are experiencing, the ability to see pretty well for a short period of time, because in the scheme of things their distance Rx isn't much. I just find it annoying that when I concentrate and get a degree of focus, I turn and look at something else, turn back and I'm back at square one and have to focus all over again - dependency mean that auto-focus is broken.

Of course, close up is a different matter, just a blur space up to 2 metres so for most hyperopes with presbyopia that is the real driver. Would have to on/off them so often that keeping them on is a convenience.

Dude 25 Feb 2015, 14:29

Cactus Jack,

yes I am the same guy. Thanks for your explanations

Cactus Jack 24 Feb 2015, 22:54

Hi Dude,

Are you the same Dude that asked some questions last May and June?

Hyperopia is the most difficult of the 4 common types of refractive errors to explain when asked about symptoms, because they are so variable. People with similar or even identical glasses prescriptions can have widely varying symptoms. Hyperopia is often confused with Presbyopia because they have the same correction, Plus lenses, even though they have completely different causes.

The 4 common types of refractive errors are Hyperopia, Myopia, Astigmatism and Presbyopia. Hyperopia and Myopia are caused by a mismatch between the total PLUS power of the eye's lens system and the distance from the back of the Crystalline Lens and the Retina. Astigmatism is caused by uneven curvature of the front surface of the Cornea. Presbyopia is caused by either the Crystalline Lens becoming stiff with age or the Ciliary Muscles becoming so weak that they can no longer increase the PLUS power of the Crystalline Lenses to focus close or both. Hyperopia and Myopia are always corrected by the Sphere part of a prescription. Presbyopia is corrected with either Sphere or an Add depending on the situation. Astigmatism is corrected by Cylinder with a direction called the Axis. A glasses prescription can correct 3 of the 4 refractive errors in one lens, but you never find correction for Hyperopia and Myopia in one lens. Some people have Hyperopia in one eye and Myopia in the other and sometimes considerable difference in the prescription for each eye.

A couple of things to remember.

1. Vision occurs in the brain. The eyes are merely biological cameras.

2. If there is a difference between the quality of the two images from the eyes, the brain will choose the clearest image as a starting point to construct what you see.

3. The brain can correct blurry images if it know what something is supposed to look like, but it takes a lot of effort and energy.

4. The brain can create an image without any input from your eyes. Ever had a dream?

5. Hyperopia is the ONLY refractive error that a person can correct internally using their Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline Lenses, provided Presbyopia has not made their Crystalline Lenses so stiff that the Ciliary Muscles cannot squeeze the lens and increase its PLUS power. Often, people with Hyperopia are not ever aware that they are having to do extra work to see distance clearly and even more work to focus close. They think they have perfect vision.

What you described in your first paragraph are all reasonable situations and solutions. I often refer to what you described as the Mysteries of Hyperopia.

Your 15 YO friend has mild Hyperopia complicated by Astigmatism. He could probably correct his mild Hyperopia internally, but Astigmatism messes up your vision at all distances. Astigmatism particularly affects the sharpness of small text. The problem is that without external correction you brain will try to focus and clarify the image and the text using the Ciliary Muscles and Crystalline lenses. It is an impossible task and it cannot be done. That often causes severe headaches and extreme fatigue. The simple solution for effortless, comfortable vision is to wear glasses all the time.


Dude 24 Feb 2015, 18:09

Hi all, I'm just curious, what prescription does a plus glasses wearer become dependent on them? Does age matter? My curiosity was aroused by some of my middle-aged family members most o them had perfect eyesight during his young adulthood but when they reached 40 or so, they started to struggle with their near vision and started to wear reading glasses but nowadays most of them wear bifocals because of a new hyperopia. One of them is my aunt, she is 48yo and wear +2.00 Add +1.25 I think she would wear her glasses to watch tv or to go to the movi but she says she can see quite well at far, another case is my 71yo grandmother who is OD+1.50 c-1.00 OS +4.00 c -1.50 Add +3.00 and she says she can see almost perfectly without her glasses, is that reasonable? Regular people with my grandma's prescrption wouldn't wear them full time??

Also, I have a 15yo friend who is +1.00 c-0.50 and he says he is completely dependent on his glasses he says he can't see a thing without his glasses at far and get strong headaches at near? Is this normal?

Cactus Jack 23 Feb 2015, 23:45

Concerned Mama,

Thank you for remembering to let us know how your daughter and son are getting along. I am sorry to hear that your daughters vision has continued to deteriorate, but it sounds like you, your husband, and Moorfieldo are doing the best that can be done for her.

Unfortunately, genetics will sometimes trump every effort at slowing the progress of some forms of Myopia. The use of a reduced prescription for reading should help, but there is no good way to prove that it actually helps very much. It is like trying to prove a negative. At least it can't hurt.

There is some amazing research in genetics these days. As we have discussed before, the development of useful Myopia to counteract the Hyperopia that most babies are born with is important for the development of Normal Vision, as a child grows, but sometimes it gets out of hand and the eyeballs grow too much. Sometimes growth stops too soon and very strong Plus glasses are required for good vision. We don't know why - yet.

Unfortunately, genetic research is very slow, but there is progress on all fronts. There is considerable vision research going on in China. Many young Chinese children are very myopic and the percentage of the population who need very strong minus glasses at an early age seems to be increasing. Hopefully, there will be some positive results, soon.


ConcernedMama 23 Feb 2015, 11:23

Hi everyone

Well I have to admit that I forgot about this place for a while but just wanted to pop back to say hello and how much I appreciated your help before.

My daughter has unfortunately lost much of her remaining vision in her left eye due to a retinal detachment and is now attending a specialist class for visually impaired children within a normal school. Her vision is pretty severely limited although she does still wear her glasses. Moorfields have continued to be amazing and very helpful. She's happy and has lots of friends - both with and without sight problems - and is reading with help from magnifiers.

My son (who is now nine and a total beanpole!) is carrying on his merry march up the staircase of myopia! His glasses continue to get stronger and whilst we continue to use "reading glasses" that are 2 weaker than his "normal glasses", I'm not sure they make much difference. He seems to be destined to be a nearsighted young man. He is still corrected to 6/12 and could probably get to 6/6 if the glasses didn't make the letters smaller (I can't read them either!). He's pretty bright and has skipped a class this year (boasting proud mum moment!) and is still reading as much as ever... and is still as bad at sport!

Thank you for all your support over the years,

CM x

Sonya_ru 23 Feb 2015, 05:24


Thank you for your detailed reply. You're right, I can only see OK with left eye. I haven't planned on wearing glasses, my family would surely make such a big deal out of it.

If what you say is true, then my ECP wasn't honest enough with me. She never told me that I'd have difficulties with getting used to that prescription. She said it was for driving only, maybe opera and things like that. I still could make my point on that ground.


Soundmanpt 18 Feb 2015, 12:59


First of all welcome to Eyescene. It's always nice to have new people join in. I hope to be able to help you somewhat.

First of all you have what is considered and unbalanced prescription, meaning your right eye is considerably worse than your left eye. If you hold your hand over your left eye covering it so your unable to see out of it and try reading anything more than a few feet away with your right eye without your glasses I think you will find everything is pretty blurry. But now doing the same thing only with your glasses everything should be very clear and sharp. What has been happening even without you paying any attention or noticing it is that more and more you have only been seeing things in the distance with your left eye. Now your left eye vision isn't perfect either but it is much better that your right eye. On top of that you have a very small amount of astigmatism in your left eye which seems like nothing, but surprisingly it can take more adjusting to than you might think it would. Even that small amount can cause the room to feel like it is spinning and even make you feel sick to your stomach until your eyes adjust. I am sure going back now to complain that you don't think your glasses are right is only going to result in being told that you have to wear them at least a couple weeks full time for you eye to adjust properly. At this point i am sure you feel that is completely wrong, but I think you will be surprised by first making a point to wear them and not be taking them off and on all the time that you see that things are going to start looking better and better with your glasses. Now to be honest after your eyes adjust I think because of the unbalance in your prescription you probably won't like your vision anymore without glasses.

 18 Feb 2015, 10:40

Hi Sonya,

I understand you. I once got a bad made lens for one eye too. Only out of this new glasses one of my eyes couldn.t see sharp. So I knew it was a bad made lens. I think your optician could measure the lens and your left eye and help you out of that. That you can.t focus to near objects in them could mean you need bifocals that are more expensive. But let.s wait what the experts tell you in here. Best regards Antonio

Sonya_ru 18 Feb 2015, 08:22

Dear all,

I'm a regular visitor, but I've never contributed to the discussion before.

I'm 28 years old and I got my first glasses last March, weeks after I started driving and ralised I couldn't see much at night.

The idea of having something made especially for me, to my own measure, has fascinated me forever. I had secretly tried other people's glasses and knew that my vision wasn't perfect, but never really hoped I could have my own pair.

My prescription is:

OD -1.50

OS -0.50 cyl - 0.25

Unfortunately, it's been difficult to get used to these glasses. Is it because I don't wear them every day?

I know they give me the fullest possible correction and are not suited for near, but I have to make conscious effort to focus on relatively near objects with my both eyes, which isn't good. On top of that, my left eye feels kind of funny: things look less high-contrast, probably due to a wrong cyl axis. This certainly doesn't help at night; for example it's difficult to recognise green arrows when I look at traffick lights from distance.

I am planning to get prescription sunglasses later this year, although I'm not sure whether I really need them. (I'm too vain to wear glasses for anything but driving or theatre). If I go, should I mention my problems to the optometrist? Can they change the prescription to make it more wearable?



DS 13 Feb 2015, 21:44

If it's only refractive error and can be corrected to 20/20, then it's good vision.

High Myopic 13 Feb 2015, 21:29

Is having a -4.50 diopter right eye and a -5.50 diopter left eye considered bad vision? I think my left eye needs to now have a -6 diopter lens and my right needs to have a -5 diopter lens.

I can see very well in a, I guess -7 diopter pair of glasses that I got from a thrift store.

deer gogs 11 Feb 2015, 22:11

Cactus Jack,

I'll get back to you in a few weeks once i figure out whats up. From my experience, having the extra minus that i don't need strains my eyes too much to work correctly. as of right now I'm thinking I need to somehow set up GOC with my eye doctor in order to get the anti fatigue and the extra minus for looks purposes only. another question: how much extra minus and you get an eye doctor to prescribe for night blindness at its worst?

Cactus Jack 11 Feb 2015, 21:35

Deer gogs,

One of your options is GOC. Another is wearing low minus glasses, but we need your actual prescription to start any meaningful discussions about anything. Anti Fatigue Glasses appear to be a special type of varifocal or progressive lens with a very weak add of around +0.60 and a very good anti-reflective coating. Variable focus lenses come in all prices and quality. The very best are brands like Varilux, Rodenstock and Zeiss. You probably won't find them online because super high quality lenses deserve the best possible fitting.

However, you can experiment with various methods of either over correction to Induce some Myopia or GOC online, at low cost, to find a solution that works for you. Once you find a prescription you like, you can look for an Eye Care Professional who will assist you in getting Anti Fatigue glasses if that is what you want. Where you live can be a big factor in how hard it is to find an open minded, friendly ECP.

At 22, you should still have plenty or be able to develop plenty of accommodation. That being the case, you could probably wear low minus sphere correction with your actual cylinder and axis, even if you have a moderate Plus Sphere prescribed, but again, we need to know where to start and most importantly, what you want to do.

Another thing that would help is to know a little more about your education and occupation.


deer gogs 11 Feb 2015, 18:29

Cactus Jack,

I'l get back to you on the prescription. What exactly would our options be in order to avoid the plus if I get prescribed it? My lenses right now are really expensive and great. I've had cheap online (zenni etc) ones before and they don't even begin to compare to these in terms of their anti glare and anti fatigue. Would I be able to convince a doctor to let me do GOC under their supervision? Like maybe just between -1 to -3 glasses with the astigmatism and +1 to +3 (depending on the new prescription) to make sure I never have a problem reading.


Cactus Jack 11 Feb 2015, 08:57

Deer gogs,

Welcome to one the "mysteries" of optics. The pupils in your eyes are like the iris in professional camera lenses. The brighter the light, the smaller lens opening required to take the picture. An important side benefit of a small lens opening is that the "depth of field" or "range of useful focus" increases significantly.

The fact that you see much better in bright light than in dim light is a very strong clue that you need an eye exam, but as Julian suggested, you need to wear your glasses more, particularly at night for a week or so before seeing your Eye Care Professional (ECP).

If I may venture a guess, I suspect that you may also have a bit of hyperopia (or long or far sightedness). Unlike myopia (or short or near sightedness), you have the internal ability to correct mild hyperopia without your even being aware of it. The important thing in an eye exam is to find out the full extent of your vision problems. In that regard, I would strongly urge you to get a dilated or "wet" eye exam. The drops that temporarily paralyze your ciliary muscles and minimize your ability to focus, also cause your pupils to open fully. This results in the most accurate measure of your refractive error. Once you know the full extent of your refractive error, then you can decide what to do about it.

We can help you by explaining your options, but we really need your complete prescription - Sphere, Cylinder and Axis. You mentioned that you hated the idea of wearing plus glasses. If you really need some plus correction and REALLY don't want to wear PLUS glasses, we can show you several ways to solve the problem. I suggest that you DO NOT order glasses immediately after your eye exam, but wait until we can chat and review your options. You may be surprised at the possibilities.


astigmaphile 11 Feb 2015, 07:37

Deer gogs,

Your vision gets worse at night because your pupils are bigger.I am =1,25 cyl, right and +2.50, left. My bare eyed vision in bright sunlight isn't that bad. In dim light, , it is noticibly worse.

Julian 11 Feb 2015, 01:01

deer gogs: Why not try wearing them more, or even full time, before going back to the ECP? The cylinder will help at all distances.

deer gogs 10 Feb 2015, 21:51

Another thing I forgot to mention was that It gets like a bajillion times worse at night.

deer gogs 10 Feb 2015, 21:49

My vision feels like it has deteriorated a ton this past year. I wear my glasses for astigmatism/reading a total of about an hour or less a day. But even as I'm typing this i feel like a desperately need to put them on. I'm a 20s college student who rarely goes anywhere off campus and for the most part keeps to himself.

My prescription as of november was:

R: 0.00 x -.75 diagonal

L: 0.00 x -.50 diagonal

(i get the axis confused but its basically opposite on the other eye).

Also, my lenses are anti fatigue.

the only change in 2013's prescription was a slight right eye astigmatism increase by -.25. I seem to see clearly with them on but not at all without anymore.

Should I go back to the eye doctor?

should I consider full time wear? they were prescribed with anti fatigue lenses which are made for really taking notes and having to look up and down constantly.

Could my eyes be relaxing with the anti fatigue lenses in just two months and therefore uncovering more farsightedness? I would absolutely hate for this to be happening as I can't stand the look of plus lenses on my face.( personally I'm praying to god that its more astigmatism rather than +. the little plus they have on the anti fatigue is already annoying looking enough)

I get the power tools analogy so you don't need to explain it. I just don't think I'm wearing them enough to be getting used to them or for the anti fatigue to be doing anything. Anyone have any other hypotheses?

Xy 10 Feb 2015, 13:56

I have severe myopia -22 diopters,pretty much progression over the years till now.seems like no change.stay indoors much,don't really go out much,or nightclubs with friends.guess huge fear of losing my glasses,having too many drinks and losing them.anyway,looking for similar chat friends,thanks.

Cactus Jack 06 Feb 2015, 16:23


Not usually at 22. I am not sure what you mean by "dimmer". If you mean less sensitive to light, a couple of things come to mind. Reduced oxygen or some other retinal issue. You could be developing cataracts, which can occur at any age, but one would think that the eye doctor would have noticed.

You should consider seeing an ophthalmologist that specializes in retinal problems with the specific complaint of dimming vision. He may suggest a visual fields test which measures light sensitivity all over the retina. A visual fields test does not take long, is painless, and does not require dilation, though the ophthalmologist may dilate your eyes to more closely check your retinas.

Like other health problems, early detection is a very important factor in being able to ideally cure or at least stop further disease development. I suggest that you do not delay in seeking resolution. You will feel better with a second opinion.

Please let us know what is found, if anything.

May I ask where you live?


pujol 06 Feb 2015, 13:02

And that I have a dry eyes

pujol 06 Feb 2015, 12:58

Forgot to mention I'm a 22 year old college student with just slight vision correct for class and no history of other problems.

pujol 06 Feb 2015, 12:57

My vision is getting noticeably dimmer the past few years. I went to the eye doctor a few days ago and he said it was okay but didn't really give a good explanation or anything. I do not show any signs of glaucoma. Could anyone please explain this to me? does vision get dimmer as you age or what?

val 06 Feb 2015, 11:57

andy thanks for the post I will email you

AndyDalton 06 Feb 2015, 10:00


I am in the same position as you.

Please email me :

I would be very interested to know how you are getting on with your glasses.

Cactus Jack 06 Feb 2015, 08:36


You really did not provide enough information to answer your question. In addition to your sphere prescription (plus or minus), many factors affect edge thickness. If the new lenses have the same index, the same base curve, the same sphere and cylinder, the same lens style, and are of the same width, you can expect them to be between 1 and 2 mm thicker at the outside edge. Sometimes, the prescription in higher prism lenses does not extend to the edge of the lens. Sort of like myodiscs in a carrier. In that case, none of the above factors apply.

Please let us know your complete prescription and how the new glasses differ from your old ones when you get them.


val 06 Feb 2015, 08:05

hi I have been priscribed glasses with some more prisms 14 base out each lens,i pisk them up in about two weeks,how thick will they be compared to my others which are 12 base out

Soundmanpt 06 Feb 2015, 07:23


If you only wear your glasses for such a limited amount of time then spending several hundred dollars on new glasses or even to change the lenses might not be that important. You should be still able to see well enough to drive with your current glasses just not as good at night but still legal.

But for under $21.00 you can choose from nearly 700 pairs of glasses with your new prescription and $5.00 more will even get you the AR coating (anti-reflective) Then you have the correct prescription for glasses as well.

Check out "" The glasses are good quality, same as any optical store sells, and they look great as well.

Likelenses 05 Feb 2015, 23:46


Your old prescription would give you about 20/30, and the new would bring you up to 20/20,or there about.

SoCal 05 Feb 2015, 21:51

You guys thing it would be worth it to change the lenses in my glasses from -2.50 to -3.00? Just got a new rx and to me, it seems negligible considering I wear contacts 90% of the time.

Cactus Jack 01 Feb 2015, 21:12


Normally, dilation does 2 things that are you.

The most obvious thing is that he pupils open up full. This permits the examiner to get a really good view of the retina and the inside of your eyeball. You notice this because lights seem almost or actually painfully bright. I get a retinal exam about ever 6 months where they shine a very bright light in my eyes and I have no defense.

The other thing that you usually notice is the your ciliary muscles are paralyzed and you cannot focus close. I don't notice that much because I have had cataract surgery and can;t focus anyway, plus I wear trifocals.

Your situation is probably different because you are hyperopic. Your distance vision with your left eye should have been pretty blurry with our your glasses because you could not correct your hyperopia using your ciliary muscles. Unless there was a large prescription change, you should have been able to see fairly well with your glasses.

Your prescription is less in your right eye but it does not seem like it would made much noticeable difference in blurriness without your glasses. Again with your glasses, distance vision should have been pretty normal.

You did not mention an ADD so it is unlikely that you could focus close even with your glasses, until the dilating agent wore off.

Interestingly, eye color can make a difference in the effectiveness of dilating agents. Brown eyes are harder to dilate than Blue eyes.

One thing you can be sure of, with your eyes dilated, you did not get any increase in the range of useful focus by your pupils closing down with bright light.

Generally, dilating agents do not affect the eye positioning muscles. Did you have any double vision problems after dilation with your glasses on.

Can you offer any additional clues that could affect you ability to focus?


AndyDalton 01 Feb 2015, 12:59


As requested...

Right eye: +1.75,-1.50, axis 55, 12.5BO, 6BD

Left Eye: +2.50,-1.75,axis 110, 12.5BO, 6BU

With Thanks,

Cactus Jack 01 Feb 2015, 12:39


What is your complete prescription?.


AndyDalton 01 Feb 2015, 11:50

I have just had an eye exam where they have dilated the pupils with drops. During this time I noticed my left eye was super blurred, but my right eye seemed unaffected. I asked the nurse about this and she assured me the pupils were super dilated in both eyes.

Can any one explain this?

Edward 13 Jan 2015, 10:33

I'm a lurker to this sight, but I very much enjoy seeing attractive women wearing glasses. Two months ago my gf went for her annual eye exam so she could get a fresh supply of contacts. She came home very upset at how much her contacts were going to cost for the year so she only got a 3 month supply. I was very excited when she said she has decided to start wearing glasses instead. I always get my glasses off line and I suggested that she do the same. She picked out a nice pair that we both think will look very nice on her. Anyway she didn't a prescription for glasses when she got her eye exam. But looking at it I am sure about everything except the axis numbers. My question is the axis the same for glasses as it is for her contacts?

Here is her contact rx:

R -1.00 -0.75 165

L -1.00 -0.75 104

So would glasses be exactly the same?

NJ 04 Jan 2015, 08:36


You could be right, but keep in mind that there are other changes that occur around the age of presbyopia that might also cause the shift in refraction. For one thing, the crystalline lens can change shape as it gets hard. Second, the inability to accommodate means that the attendant changes in the eye that are known to increase myopia in younger people are no longer present. Third, compensated hyperopia in the first 3-4 decades of life is not exactly the same thing as pseudomyopia, at least if the latter is a semi-permanent involuntary effect.

I was hyperopic as a kid but seldom wore glasses because I had the accommodative power to make up for it. But I could just relax my eyes and have everything go into a blur so the accommodation was voluntary and not permanent. I also experienced a slight myopic shift as I got into the age of presbyopia, about 1.5-2D.

Crystal Veil 03 Jan 2015, 14:47

SC, my own myopia reduced from my forties the way you describe it.

SC 03 Jan 2015, 13:25

Sorry meant pseudo myopia...

SC 03 Jan 2015, 13:24


I see your earlier post that you consider pseudo hyperopia as a rare thing. I think it is very common. I know several people whose minus Rx reduces when they get to their 40s. I have an uncle who switched from minus to plus and a friend who was told she no longer needed glasses. I remember a poster here (Phil) who went from -4 to -2.75 and it seems sensible to me that if many hyperopes manage to mask +1 to +1.5 until their 40s then a reasonable number of mopes are over corrected to a similar degree.

NJ 02 Jan 2015, 18:08

Sally, if your daughter has a sudden change in vision you should take her to the doctor immediately. It could be any number of things, many of which require an immediate response.

Sally 02 Jan 2015, 12:09

Dear Cactus Jack

Yes, she has bifocal glasses. We live in London.

You made sense until you started to mention numbers for eyes, but that is down to my ignorance.

Thank you so m uch for your really quick rep,ly.


Sally 02 Jan 2015, 12:09

Dear Cactus Jack

Yes, she has bifocal glasses. We live in London.

You made sense until you started to mention numbers for eyes, but that is down to my ignorance.

Thank you so m uch for your really quick rep,ly.


Cactus Jack 02 Jan 2015, 10:48


What your daughter is describing and using are the Vertex Distance effects of her glasses. Vertex Distance is the distance from the front surface of her corneas to the back surface of her glasses lenses. Vertex Distance effects involve the mathematical square of the lens power. There is a formula to calculate the Vertex Distance effect, but for a +22 lens is very close to 0.50 diopters per millimeter and for a +26 lens it is very close to 0.67 diopters per millimeter. Notice that I did not specify a PLUS or MINUS on the Vertex Distance effect. I will explain.

Typical Vertex Distance for glasses is about 12 to 13 millimeters and the effect of Vertex Distance on the apparent power of the glasses depends on if the glasses lenses are PLUS or MINUS. If you move PLUS glasses closer to your face, their apparent power DECREASES. If you move MINUS glasses closer to your face, their apparent power INCREASES. Vertex Distance must be considered when determining the final prescription in very strong glasses.

Often, the tendency to move glasses closer or farther from the face indicates a need for a prescription change. It is possible that your daughter needs her prescription DECREASED. There can be several reasons for this, but at 15, it is possible that she is experiencing some eyeball growth. You typically see this in teenagers who already wear or need to wear MINUS glasses, but there is no reason why it cannot occur in someone who needs PLUS glasses.

You did not mention the cause of your daughters hyperopia, but generally it is caused by a mismatch between the total power of the eye’s lens system and the length of the eyeball which determines the distance from the back of the lens system in the eye to the retina. In a normal adult eye, the total power of the eye’s lens system is around +58 diopters and the distance to the retina is about 17 millimeters. If the total power is LESS than it needs to be or the distance is LESS than it needs to be for the power, external PLUS lenses are required to focus images on the retina. Most babies are born with hyperopia because their eyeballs need to be small because the babies head size is small. Fortunately, most babies are also born with the ability to correct their hyperopia by using the focusing system in their eyes. As the child grows, their eyeballs also grow and their hyperopia becomes less. Sometimes the eyeballs grow too much and and myopia results. If the eyeballs don't grow enough, hyperopia results.

Most young people experience a spurt of growth in their teens and when they approach puberty. The eyeballs can also experience a spurt of growth which can increase myopia or decrease hyperopia. It is possible that your daughter is experiencing this. Normally, eyeball growth does not occur very fast, but it can seem to occur suddenly when you wake up one morning and your glasses are not working as well as they seemed to the day before. Incidentally, if eyeball growth is a factor in your daughters apparent prescription change, the distances involved are very small. About 0.3 millimeters per diopter of change.

May I ask a couple of questions?

Does your daughter need to wear bifocals or different glasses for reading?

Where do you live?

I hope this very long winded explanation is helpful. Please feel free to ask any questions you wish.


Sally 02 Jan 2015, 08:56


My 15 year old daughter has suddenly started complaining about her vision

Her latest glasses are +22 and plus 26.

But in the last 24 hours she has suddenly stated to complain that she is struggling to see "stuff"

She says that things are easier if she moves her glasses "way nearer to my. Face "

Both my husband and I are totally blind. Does this sound like a prescription issue or an emergency?



Justin 31 Dec 2014, 20:12

Hi Cactus Jack,

Thanks for the detailed response to my question and comments.

Haven't really had a chance to experiment much but plan on being online a lot on new year's day and gonna try the 1.00s in front while doing it and see how things are during and afterwards.

Look forward to updating you!

Likelenses 31 Dec 2014, 19:32

An interesting web site on aniseikonia

Cactus Jack 30 Dec 2014, 18:12


Your corneas have no source of oxygen, lubrication, or moisture other than that the get from the air or your tears. Without enough tears, your corneas can dry out some and that can change their optical power and even their shape. This is one instance where a little bit goes a long way and even a tiny change in the shape of the cornea can make a big difference in your eye's refractive power. You can confirm this my observing the thinness of a contact lens or how little pressure it takes if you place your finger at the outer edge of your eyelid and pull gently outward. It does not take much to change your prescription pretty significantly.

You optician is very wise to suggest that you wait until your tear production is restored and your vision stabilizes before the recheck. I suggest that you try to schedule your appointment early after a good nights sleep and do not read or do any significant close work before the exam. That will assure that your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses are as relaxed as possible before the exam. If you would like to be prescribed glasses with more minus, schedule the exam for late in the day and read or do as much close work as possible, including reading in the waiting room, before the exam.


Cactus Jack 30 Dec 2014, 17:59


Very true. Steep corneas result in corneas with excessive PLUS power. True or Axial Myopia is caused by a mismatch between the total PLUS power of the eye's lens system and the distance from the back of the lens system to the retina. Too much total PLUS in the lens system or excessive distance to the retina can cause myopia, but excessive growth of the eyeball as a child grows to adulthood is the most common.

Many people with myopia learn to really like the ultra sharp vision that a step or two of minus over correction and often achieve 20/15 or even 20/10 vision. Without realizing it, they then use their ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses to compensate. After 6 months or a year, the ciliary muscles get used to maintaining this level of compensating PLUS and it becomes the new norm. Almost any muscle can be "trained" to maintain a particular position and have difficulty changing. People with hyperopia that is uncomplicated by astigmatism often brag about their superior vision because they are using their ciliary muscles to add the PLUS they need to focus. Over time, their ciliary muscles have trouble relaxing. When they finally get glasses, it may take weeks or months for their ciliary muscles to relax and as that occurs, they need PLUS sphere increases in glasses or contacts to correct their vision. This goes on until their ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses relax to their natural relaxed power.

As I have said many times, Pseudo Myopia and Latent Hyperopia are exactly the same phenomenon. What name is used depends on the basic sphere refractive error of the individual.

In case of Latent Hyperopia, internal correction is using up some of the accommodation range of the eye's focusing system and is often the reason that presbyopia becomes a nuisance at an earlier age. Something similar can happen if a person with myopia is over corrected with too much MINUS. The eye's focusing system can compensate, but some of the accommodation range is used up doing it.


RickB 30 Dec 2014, 11:01

Cactus Jack,

In that case I have had a dilated exam as never had anything put in to my eyes before an exam. Not aware of any of my friends ever mentioning anything like that either.

I was told to use a warm damp cloth and hold it over my eye 3-4 times a day for 5 minutes at a time and was given some artificial tears to put in my eye to keep it moist. Apparently it will take 2 weeks (maybe more) to clear up but have got to go back for a follow up on the 10th Jan. Optician also advised me not to get my prescription filled until after I'd been back as she wanted to re-check my vision. once my eye had healed, although I'm not really sure why having my glands blocked would make any difference to my prescription.

I am finding that now I've started to use the drops my vision seems a lot more comfortable.

NJ 30 Dec 2014, 10:37

Cactus Jack, myopia can also be caused by steep corneas without axial lengthening. The two numbers of interest to an ophthalmologist evaluating a patient are the axial lengths and the corneal curvatures. Increased axial length is associated with retinal detachment, whereas myopia due to steep corneas is not.

I think pseudomyopia is fairly rare as anything more than a transient event. I know I occasionally experienced it in school after hours of reading, even though I was a bifocal-wearing hyperope. However, it never lasted more than an hour or two.

Cactus Jack 30 Dec 2014, 09:58


That is good news. Did the optician suggest anything you should do about the dry eye problem? Tears are very important to eye health and vision. They are also very important to contact lens comfort.

There are two types of myopia. True or Axial Myopia and False or Pseudo Myopia. True Myopia is caused by a mismatch between the length of your eyeball and the total power of your eye's lens system. It is considered a permanent type of myopia. True myopia is believed to have a genetic and environmental foundation. The eyes have to grow as you grow from childhood, but typically increases is true myopia slow and stop when you stop growing in your late teems and early 20s.

False Myopia is considered temporary and is caused by the failure of the ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses to fully relax after close focusing. It is actually the same thing as Latent Hyperopia, just on the other side of 0.00. Whiny focus close, your ciliary muscles squeeze your crystalline lenses. If you do this long enough, your ciliary muscles have trouble relaxing and your eyes tend to stay focused for close work and distance vision takes a while to clear up. One element in False Myopia seems to be the flexibility of the crystalline lenses (presbyopia). Depending on the age and genetic makeup of the individual, False Myopia is often the result of intentional or inadvertent over correction, particularly in adults. How long it takes for the ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses to relax depends on three factors, age, how long the condition has existed, how much it is reinforced. Long term False Myopia or Latent Hyperopia can take weeks or months for the ciliary muscles to fully relax and is often the reason Myopia seems to decrease in later life and the reason people with Hyperopia need prescription increases after they start wearing PLUS glasses.

A dilated or "wet" eye exam is often used to get a more accurate measurement of your refractive error or to permit better observation of the condition of your retina. A few drops of dilating agent in your eyes will paralyze your ciliary muscles and open your pupils and you will temporarily loose your ability to focus or inadvertently affect your refractive error during an eye exam. Typically, the agents that are used wear off within a few hours and only affect your accommodation ability during the exam and for a few hours afterward. Because your pupils are also open wide, your eyes cannot defend themselves against bright lights and often disposable sun glasses are offered after the exam. Usually, the dilating agents do not last long enough to have much effect on significant long term Pseudo Myopia or Latent Hyperopia. There are some dilating agents that take days to wear off, atropine for instance, but these are rarely used for typical eye exams because the ECPs want the patient to recover normal vision as soon as possible after the exam.

Again, I am glad to hear that the source of your discomfort has been found. Please stay in touch and participate in the discussions if you wish.


RickB 30 Dec 2014, 04:22

Hi Cactus Jack

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I managed to get a cancellation with an optician yesterday.

Apparently the glands at the bottom of my left eye are blocked which is causing the eye to become try and leading to the irritability I've been suffering from. The optician also did a full eye test to and my prescription had changed to:

L: -5.75, -1.50

R: -6.00, -0.75

They did check my near vision but that was all okay.

I don't know if I've ever had a dilated exam and I'm not sure what the difference is between the two different types of myopia.

I used to wear Contact Lenses but haven't worn them for about a year.

Cactus Jack 29 Dec 2014, 22:42


Welcome, thank you for the post.

At 38, it is likely that presbyopia is slowly creeping up on you. Ideally, the way the optics of vision work is that your glasses (or contacts) neutralize your myopia, resulting in a 0.00 refractive error with your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses fully relaxed for distance. The laws of optical physics discovered by Sir Isaac Newton over 300 years ago require that to focus closer than infinity (20 feet or 6 meters to be practical), some additional PLUS power is required. Before presbyopia sets in, your crystalline lenses have the consistency of gelatin dessert and your ciliary muscles can easily squeeze the crystalline lens and increase its PLUS power by what ever is required to focus on the closer object. We call this Accommodation.

The amount of extra PLUS required is easily calculated by dividing the distance to the object into 100 cm or 39.37 inches depending on your preferred measurement system. To focus at a typical reading distance of 40 cm or 16 inches requires +2.50 diopters of additional PLUS. If your crystalline lenses are flexible, you can easily supply the +2.50 using your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses. As your crystalline lenses become stiffer with presbyopia, you gradually loose the ability to supply the full amount of PLUS you need internally and you need external lenses to supply what your crystalline lenses cannot. You can easily calculate the amount of PLUS required to focus on your computer display by measuring the distance from your eyes to the display and dividing it a stated above.

Even though you probably have the ability, with effort, to focus at any reasonable distance, the +1 OTC glasses do some of the work that your ciliary muscles usually do which increases your comfort when using the computer or even reading for a long time.

Wearing even +1.00 is a two edged sword. The ciliary muscles are, for their size, the strongest muscles in the body because they get plenty of exercise. When you reduce their work load, you encourage their de-conditinoing and loss of some of their strength. This can cause presbyopia to SEEM to develop faster than it ordinarily would. The bottom line is that almost everyone ultimately needs help focusing close and it is important that you be able to function comfortably and efficiently in your visual environment and glasses in any form are simply tools to help you do that.

Before computers, tablets and smartphones it was rare for people to need focusing help until their late 30s or early 40s. There were exceptions of course, I had to get bifocals in college to avoid splitting headaches and trifocals at 30 to help in my job. I had to try several ECPs to find one that would listen to my problems and help me. Today, our "up close" visual environment is revealing hyperopia, often in teenagers causing presbyopia to become a nuisance earlier that ever before. Don't be hesitant to do whatever you need to do to have comfortable vision at all distances. If you have more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Again, welcome.


Cactus Jack 29 Dec 2014, 10:38


Read your post. Need to leave for an appointment. More later.


Cactus Jack 29 Dec 2014, 10:36


You are correct that astigmatism typically changes very slowly. Because the discomfort in your left eye is recent, I tend to agree with you that it is unlikely that astigmatism is culprit, but don't entirely discount the idea. Astigmatism is one of the refractive errors that you have no internal ability to correct, the other major one is myopia. The problem with uncorrected astigmatism combined with CORRECTED myopia, is that uncorrected astigmatism affects vision at all distances and the out of focus images cause your focus control system to overwork your ciliary muscles trying to do an impossible task and that can result in the symptoms you described.

The astigmatism axis part of the eye exam is probably the most subjective part of the exam. The ECP has no way to see what you are seeing and must depend on your answers to questions about clarity of the images you see. Unlike the other elements of the exam where you are comparing the clarity of small letters, comparing the relative blurriness of images as the axis is bracketed is very difficult, even for experienced eye exam clients.

After struggling through many astigmatism axis tests trying to decide equal blurriness between two images, I finally asked the ECP if I could "fine tune" the axis at the appropriate point in the exam. After he had the axis close, he flipped the supplementary cylinder lens out of the way and placed my hand on the axis adjustment knob. I rotated it back and forth a few degrees seeking the sharpest and least distorted image, like fine tuning an old analog TV.. This was done for each eye individually. Since then, I make a deal with the ECP before the exam and ask if they will let me fine tune the axis after he/she has it close. My experience has been that most experienced ECPs understand the limitations of the eye exam and are very happy to have your active participation.

There is another situation that can cause individual eye discomfort. Unbalanced correction where the eyes are not equally corrected to an actual refractive error of 0.00. There is one place where you can easily comparing the individual corrections for each eye. After each eye is refracted individually, the shutters will be opened for both eyes, but using prism, you are shown two images and asked to compare their relative positions. This is to test for muscle imbalance. Before you worry about that, compare the relative blurriness of the two images. If they are not equally clear, tell the examiner that there is a difference in clarity and which one is the sharpest. The examiner will likely decrease the sharpness of that images. Don't worry about that because at this point what you are looking for is for the images to be equally sharp. You will get a chance to make both eyes sharp and clear, together after the muscle imbalance test. If you don't have equally clear images from both eyes, when the test continues with both eyes together, your brain will select the clearest of the two images and use that as the primary source of what you see. Remember, the eyes are merely biological cameras. Vision occurs in the brain.

Another thing to consider is that the eyes are really two different entities that work together. They develop independently and just as you different amounts of astigmatism you could have presbyopia developing in your left eye at a different rate than your right. At this point you really don't have enough information to make a judgement.

I have a few more questions:

1. Have you had a dilated eye exam in the past few years?

2. I am wondering if your myopia may have a pseudo myopia component in addition to an axial or true myopia component? They have two different causes, but they add together for your final prescription. It happens more often than most people think. More about Pseudo Myopia later.

3. Do you wear contacts, ever?


Justin 29 Dec 2014, 10:25

Hi guys,

Been following this site but never posted before.

I have been reading RickB's post with interest. I am a guy, 38 here, and wear -6 glasses. I haven't really been having any big issues other than some occasional eyestrain.

Was just out doing some errands and thought I'd try the suggestion CactusJack gave a try. I tried both a +1.00 and a +1.25 reader and the 1.25 seemed a bit strong. So bought the +1s. I am now typing with them on top of my regular glasses and do notice a bit easier with them but can still read through my others.


RickB 29 Dec 2014, 02:27

Hi Cactus Jack

Thanks for your response. With regards to the astigmatism, I've had these lenses for about 18 months and never had any issues with them up until now. Can astigmatism change that much as my astigmatism prescription has been the same for as long as I can remember?

I did purchase a pair of OTC readers with a +1.25 power. They did help to make text seem clearer, particularly on my iPhone but haven't helped the discomfort to go away, although maybe that doesn't happen straight away? Also if it is presbyopia wouldn't I have the issue with both eyes?

I live in England and work in sales so spend a lot of time driving. I do also work from a tablet when I'm not at home so do spend quite a lot of time looking at computer/phone screens. I live in England

Cactus Jack 28 Dec 2014, 06:16


I was in a bit of a hurry when I asked your age. I should have also asked your occupation and how much close work you do with computers, tablets, and smartphones.

I think you may have several things going on that you can investigate even before your eye exam and a couple to things you can do during the exam to improve the accuracy of your prescription and improve the comfort of your vision. Vision should be comfortable and effortless.

The really interesting item you reported is that you are having some discomfort in your left eye after doing a lot of close work. Your left eye has the most cylinder correction for astigmatism. I suspect either the cylinder power or most likely the axis of the cylinder is not correct. I will offer some tips later to improve the accuracy of your cylinder and axis correction.

i also suspect that you may be experiencing some early effects of presbyopia. The clue is the struggle to focus you mentioned, but part of that could be related to astigmatism. Your first reaction at the mention of presbyopia was “But I am only 33. I am too young to have presbyopia.” The answer to that is, not necessarily. The idea that presbyopia does not become a nuisance until around 40 or so, is a myth. Presbyopia is the gradual stiffening of the crystalline lenses (the variable focus lenses in your eyes) as you get older. It actually starts in childhood, but typically does not become a problem until the late 30s or early 40s. When it becomes a nuisance depends on your genetics and visual environment. If presbyopia is becoming a nuisance, the solution is optically simple. For close work, you just need less MINUS or more PLUS (same thing) in your glasses.

Many Eye Care Professionals (ECPs) are very reluctant to prescribe reading help before age 40, but that is changing. The primary cause of the change is the tiny text on smartphones and tablets. Even teenagers are experiencing focusing difficulties are finding glasses; reading, bifocals or progressives, very helpful. You can do a easy experiment to find out if you need some close focusing help. Get a pair of low power Over-the-Counter (OTC) reading glasses and try wearing them over your glasses when you are doing close work and see if they make a difference. Something in the +1.00 or +1.25 range would be best, but don’t go higher than +1.50 until we chat some more. There is no real problem with going higher, but the power of the lenses determines the focus distance. You still have plenty of focus range and your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses can still provide any extra focusing help you need. The purpose of the low power OTC glasses is to see if the small bit of help they provide increases your comfort. When you are wearing the glasses over your regular glasses, distance objects will be a bit blurry.

Ideally, you don’t want to use more focusing help than you need because it reduces the workload of your ciliary (focusing) muscles in your eyes. For their size, your ciliary muscles are the strongest muscles in the body. Like any muscles, they need to be used to maintain their strength. One of the things that can occur if you wear stronger focusing help than you need is the surprisingly rapid de-conditioning of your ciliary muscles which makes the onset of presbyopia appear to be more rapid than it actually is.

That is enough for now. You need to digest this and think over what I said and try the OTC glasses. The main thing is to not worry, what you are experiencing is not all that unusual and the solution is probably just a more accurate exam and new glasses. Please let me know what you think.

May I ask where you live?


RickB 27 Dec 2014, 15:28

Hi Cactus Jack

Sorry I'm 33

Cactus Jack 27 Dec 2014, 15:10


You did not mention a very important factor, your age.


RickB 27 Dec 2014, 11:15


I'm wondering if someone could give me some advice. I currently wear glasses for myopia -L. 5.25, -1.50 and R. -5.75, -0.25.

For the past few weeks I've noticed that my left eye seems to be aching quite a lot and the area around the eye also seems quite sore particularly towards the end of the day it feels kind of muscular in pain. I've not noticed any issues with my distance vision but am noticing that when I'm reading I'm sometimes struggling to focus particularly if I go from looking close up to looking in the distance and back to close up again.

Also occasionally if i'm looking at text I get like a shadow above it.

I've made an opticians appointment, but due to the christmas period am unable to get in until early January and was just wondering if anyone else has experienced similar issues and may know what the problem is?



GlassesLover 27 Dec 2014, 08:33

anybody know somnething about LauraC? it`s been a while without news from her...

Ellie 26 Dec 2014, 18:36

Likelenses, I don't think that I have been over corrected before, and I'm a bit afraid to try to boost my prescription myself as I'm sure natural progression will run its course. The idea of inducing myopia is kind of exciting, but I don't it's something in going to worry about at the moment.

Soundmanpt, I believe my current contacts are -12.50, the highest rx offered in Acuvue Oasys. The next time I order contacts I will most likely have to switch to a newer brand. Yes, I am well aware that contacts rx are lower than glasses rx, especially as the prescription increases.

Soundmanpt 25 Dec 2014, 09:29


Just a thought. You do know that your contacts prescription should be considerably less than your glasses prescription? So if your past glasses prescription was -14.00 what is the prescription of your contacts that your still wearing?

Likelenses 24 Dec 2014, 22:37


Do you like to be overcorrected?

Have you worn overcorrection in the past?

And of course you do realize that close work will become even smaller with your -15's

Ellie 24 Dec 2014, 21:15

Happy Holidays all! Thank you for everyone's comments to my posts.

I don't plan on seeing an ophthalmologist until the spring time for my annual check up, so I will probably wear my single vision contacts and glasses until any changes are made to my prescription. I have a few pairs of reading glasses from the drugstore that I might try out with my contacts to see if that helps with doing close work.

I'm still currently wearing my -14 glasses prescription so I guess my post earlier wasn't entirely accurate. I've ordered new glasses from Zenni during their sale with my newer -15 rx but haven't gotten them yet. I actually haven't updated my contacts rx in a while, so this will be one of the first times my glasses will be quite a bit stronger than my contacts. I've started wearing my glasses more out in public with my boyfriends encouragement and have started to feel more comfortable in them, so I might decide to wear glasses more often once I get my new ones.

It's exciting because I ordered a few pairs in my new rx since Zenni was having a good deal for Black Friday! I'm eager to receive my package and have a variety of glasses to wear.

To Onlooker: I'm not sure how others cope, although I would imagine that some people might wear reading glasses sometimes over their contacts to see up close better? With myself, contacts do not make everything as small as glasses do (does anyone else experience this?) and so I don't struggle with wanting to for example rip my contacts out of my eyes to see up close. I do hold my phone a bit closer if need be.

Even with glasses, I find that it isn't so much that I can't read or see the smaller details, but that I want to be able to see a bit clearer and have a larger image, which is why I've begun sliding my glasses down my nose and holding my phone inches away from my eyes to be able to get that larger image!

It takes a bit of time for my eyes to readjust after sliding my glasses up to my eyes where they belong for me to be able to see. It's a bit like having everything up close be really blurred like when your eyes get dilated.

To John H: Thank you for your response. I apologize if you've already posted this a while ago, but could you talk a bit about your vision history? What was your age and rx when you first started wearing glasses, what was your rx when you started wearing bifocals, and how is your vision today? If you are willing to share, I'd love to hear your story. I love wearing strong glasses but A part of me is also a bit fearful that my vision might hold me back someday. I'm hoping that I will still have decent acuity as my prescription continues to increase. I don't mind having to wear string glasses or contacts as long as I can still see well enough to go to school, do things that interest me, and be able to work at a job that I like. I'm also really hoping that seeing well enough to drive won't be an issue, but I'm not sure.

Thanks again, everyone!

Onlooker 24 Dec 2014, 08:43

I quite often see myopes looking over the tops of their glasses to see their mobile phones or, less frequently, pushing their glasses up to look under them. If it were me, I'd just get bi-focals or progressives but I suppose young folks still associate these with middle-age.

How do wearers of contact lenses cope? Or do they not have the same problem?

Onlooker 24 Dec 2014, 08:43

I quite often see myopes looking over the tops of their glasses to see their mobile phones or, less frequently, pushing their glasses up to look under them. If it were me, I'd just get bi-focals or progressives but I suppose young folks still associate these with middle-age.

How do wearers of contact lenses cope? Or do they not have the same problem?

Soundmanpt 24 Dec 2014, 08:23


Normal distance for reading and typing on small devices is about 12" from your eyes. So if your unable to see your phone at that distance clearly or if your eyes feel strained trying to see it then you clearly need an add in your glasses.

Here in the states women of all ages seem as if they can't walk without their phone being in their hand. Men not so much so. I am amazed at how many when they are looking at their phone are holding it within 6" of their eyes, some wearing glasses and others not. It makes me wonder if they really need it that close in order to see it or if they have just gotten in bad habits holding it so close? But either way holding it that close will soon lead to them needing glasses if they don't already have glasses and they too may need an add in their glasses.

Owlish 24 Dec 2014, 05:56

Hi Myope

I can't answer your question but here is a relevant anecdote: a friend of mine was -18 in one eye and -22 in the other. She got detached retina in the more myopic eye but never in the better one. She was young at the time and didn't know what was happening so she didn't tell anyone or get treatment for at least a day. That was a big mistake.

I can't tell you anything about the correlation between degree of myopia and statistical risk but I don't think you should worry too much. Maybe it's best to avoid playing rough sports where you're likely to get your head knocked.

I suppose you have seen general info such as:

John H 24 Dec 2014, 05:49

To respond to Ellie and Myope....

I have an extreme amount of myopia: distance lenses are -32 and -30, with -28 and -26 for reading.

I went through bifocals and/or progressive lenses on and off through my teenage years and since my late 20s. I always found that wearing contact lenses gave me problems with small print. Distances were ok, but I needed reading glasses to cope in addition to contacts. My glasses always gave me clear vision for for reading.

The link above gives detailed information regarding retinal detachments. I've been very lucky so far and had only a very few retinal problems, all treated with laser surgery to weld the retina back in place. However, I tend to read the symptoms on a regular basis.

Myope 24 Dec 2014, 03:17


I asked this question a while ago but didn't get a response. Can anyone help?

I'm very highly myopic (-12.25/-12.50), and in the realms of being considered to be potentially at risk from retinal detachment (although all seems fine currently). I've read that people with high myopia over -6 have a 1 in 20 chance of retinal detachment, but how does this risk increase with your prescription beyond -6? I'm double that now, so would it be a 1 in 15, 1 in 10 risk etc? The risk must increase substantially but I've never found anything written about this.


Likelenses 23 Dec 2014, 18:25


You are definitely reading far too close. You should be able to read comfortably at twelve inches.

How do you feel that your distance vision is with correction of course?

And how long have you had your -15 prescription?

With many high myopes it is more of a habit thing to read too close,but doing so can cause increases in myopia.

Beside helping you with close work,you may also benefit from bifocals to possibly slow down your high myopia.

Ellie 23 Dec 2014, 15:47

I am wearing contacts at the moment. I just went on all of my usual apps to see if there is a big difference with glasses versus contacts and how small the image is to me. Usually with glasses, I only have issues with wanting to see something much bigger (and therefore looking over the top) when I browse apps that don't let me zoom in. Just now in contacts, I am noticing that I hold my phone about 5-6 inches away from my eyes for certain apps. As I'm typing right now, I have the phone about 8 inches away and plus I'm a bit zoomed in as well. What's a normal distance to be looking at a phone screen?

Soundmanpt, you are correct. I am a college student and will be 20 years old next month.

Melyssa 23 Dec 2014, 12:39

Their, they're, Soundmanpt, your knot the only won whose bewitched, bothered, and bewildered by grammar (or grampa); its really something for it's time. LOL

Soundmanpt 23 Dec 2014, 11:25


That may explain why I spent so many years in English class. lol Needless to say it didn't help much.

EyeTri 23 Dec 2014, 11:15


Just thought you might want to know that the contraction for "you are" is "you're". "Your" is the possesive form of you.

Soundmanpt 23 Dec 2014, 09:43


When people start to have to remove or look over the tops of their glasses to read small print that is when they need to talk to their eye care professional about bifocals / progressives.

You mentioned something about "class" so I take that to mean your on the younger side? Just because your young doesn't mean your eyes won't benefit from bifocals. Bifocals are no longer for just older people. More and more young people because of many of the same devices you mentioned are starting to need bifocals at an early age.

Likelenses 23 Dec 2014, 02:09


Sounds like you would benefit from bifocals.

Ellie 22 Dec 2014, 21:40

I got a new phone recently and have been using it a lot more than my old one, which I didn't like. Before getting the new phone, I often browsed the Internet and checked social media sites using my iPad mini or my laptop, which both have much bigger screens than the iPhone 5s.

I've gotten into the habit of looking at my phone screen over the top of my glasses. I usually wear contacts out, but I wear glasses when I'm at home and after I come back from classes. It's not that I can't see things on the screen when I'm wearing glasses, but everything looks really small and sometimes I'd like to see a clearer, larger image, which is why I started pulling my glasses down my nose and looking at my phone bareeyeed.

I do not think that I struggle as much while wearing contacts in the same situation.

I was just curious if I should bring this up with my eye doctor and also how much will it affect my near vision? Will I start to lose my accommodation sooner? Should I minimize the frequency of looking at my phone this way? My glasses prescription has gone up since the last time I posted it; im in the range of -15 with little astigmatism.

Thank you!

Soundmanpt 02 Dec 2014, 12:16


You didn't say it but I assume these are your first glasses? And i assume you don't have your glasses yet? But I think you will soon find that your going to enjoy how clear and sharp everything will be as soon as you put your glasses on that as your eyes get more and more adjusted to them you will hardly ever take them off except to clean them. Within the first week your going to be wondering how you were able to even drive before you got glasses because they will make that much difference to your vision.

So how you should feel is "grateful" that you will now be able to so much better and be missing all the things you have been missing.

Better yet after you get your glasses and start wearing them why don't you tell us how you feel about your glasses?

Likelenses 01 Dec 2014, 23:35


Minus 1.50 would place your uncorrected vision at about 20/100.

When you get the glasses you should wear them full time for a week or two in order to get used to them.

They are a bit stronger than many first prescriptions,and you will be required to wear them for driving.You may also find that you will want to wear them full time.

Were you having vision problems. Do you go to school,or work,and if so what type of work?

sara 01 Dec 2014, 23:12

hi, i got my eyes checked. ive got -1.5 in both eyes. not sure how i feel. need them for atleast driving

dingbat 25 Nov 2014, 05:22

Yes they do sell contact lenses

very progressive 24 Nov 2014, 17:26


Does this Optometrist sell contacts? and did you buy glasses there as well?

very progressive 24 Nov 2014, 17:26


Does this Optometrist sell contacts? and did you buy glasses there as well?

very progressive 24 Nov 2014, 17:26


Does this Optometrist sell contacts? and did you buy glasses there as well?

dingbat 24 Nov 2014, 13:12

I think it will be good to go for the assessment for contacts so i can wear them occassions- i just hope the person fitting them doesnt think its pointless having such a low prescription. Just wondered why the optician kept asking me to close my eyes briefly when the lenses were being changed over?!

Soundmanpt 24 Nov 2014, 12:11


Everyone is a little different about their vision. When you first got glasses you wore them some but didn't feel much of a need for them most likely be cause you were more able to compensate. Then you lost even lost them and went without for over a year. Now you went and got very small increase, but now you feel like yo really need them much more now. Your eyes are just more sensitive now. So if you feel like wearing them all the time then wear them all the time. There is no "magic number" where your supposed to start wearing your glasses full time.

Like Andrew said its possible that your optometrists was pushing you to get contacts thinking you might somehow loose your glasses again and not do anything about it for a year or so. Or maybe felt like you have a vanity issue about wearing glasses, who knows? But if your comfortable wearing glasses and really don't care about messing with contacts then simply cancel your appointment for the fitting. By the way you do understand that with contacts it is no different than wearing glasses full time so that should answer what you asked about wearing your glasses full time already. Unless you really want contacts I would forget about getting them.

dingbat 24 Nov 2014, 10:55

Wow I picked up my glasses and I'm really surprised at how well they sharpen everything up. Its crystal clear and my eyes seem less tired. Would it be OK to wear these all the time? I know its a very minor prescription but wow!!!

Andrew 23 Nov 2014, 15:23


No, it's not strong at all. I suspect the reason for the contact lens suggestion is the fact that you have been without glasses for a year or so. The optometrist has surmised that vanity might be a reason for this, so has suggested contact lenses rather than / as well as glasses. The trial won't do you any harm, so give it a go and see what you think.

dingbat 23 Nov 2014, 14:02

Hello all

Just had an eye test the other day as i lost my old glasses about 1 year ago which ive only ever warn for driving at night. I've been given new prescription sph -.75 cyl -.25 axis 16 and right eye -.75.

I did have glasses prescribed 3 years ago for left eye -.50 cyl -.25 axis 10 a d right eye -.50

The optometrist said my eyes have deteriorated and asked me why I haven't been to get glasses replaces sooner. She started saying I should be wearing them more even during the daytime and then started pushing me into having a contact lens trial.

My question is is this a strong prescription as I was quite shocked that she was making such a thing about wearing them more n going for contacts.

I've booked a trial but more so out of pressure.

Likelenses 22 Nov 2014, 01:32


If you were unable to read a few lines above the minimum,which by the way is 20/40 in most states in the US,and most other countries,then your vision is quite a bit less than 20/40.

Glasses for 20/50 are usually -1.00,and 20/70 about -1.25,20/100 about-1.50.I suspect that you will fall in that range.

Everything that Soundmanpt has said is accurate,but you may have to purchase your first pair from the optical store in order to have them in a timely fashion to be able to drive.I am sure that they told you that you can not legally drive until you get glasses,and return to have your vision checked by them.

Online glasses are great,but usually take two or more weeks to receive,after placing the order.

If you live in the US,check to see if there is an Americas Best optical store near you. They offer a package deal of an exam,plus two pair of glasses for $ 69.95,and you can have the glasses in less than a week.

Did you have any idea that you were not seeing well?

What is your age,and what kind of work do you do?

Whether you will need the glasses for other than driving will depend on the outcome of the exam.

sara 21 Nov 2014, 23:40

thanks that is helpful. i guess the scary part is that i couldn't read the minimum line or the ones above it. i thought my eyes might go bad...oh well

Soundmanpt 21 Nov 2014, 23:28


What Tom said is about accurate. The actual eye exam will take about 40 minutes give or take. Of course as you can guess you will be asked to read several lines on the eye chart and which I would you will be unable to anything below the 20/50 line on the chart. So that would be about 4 lines up from the 20/20 line which is considered perfect. Now the more lines above the 20/50 line that your unable to make out will determine how strong your glasses will need to be. The doctor will look into your eyes with bright light to determine the overall health of your eyes and to see the shape of your eyes which may indicate astigmatisms. After a bit the doctor will put a machine in front of your eyes and that is called a refractor and he / she will put various lenses into it until and ask you a series of questions as to which is better until your completely able to read all the letters on the 20/20 without any problem. Then he will write down your prescription so you can pick out glasses. Now everyone here will be asking the results of your test, So in most cases the store won't offer you a copy of your prescription because they of course want you to by not only your glasses from them but you may soon feel the need for prescription sunglasses so they would want you to return to them for those as well. So be sure to ask for a copy of your prescription as well as something called P.D. measurement. The reason I suggest that is because their are ways to really save money on glasses by going on line but you need not only your prescription but your P.D. (pupil distance) as well. For example you will likely pay depending on the location anywhere from $150.00 to $500.00 for your glasses. Going on line you can the same quality glasses for less than $25.00.

Now like Tom said most likely since you didn't even feel the need for glasses your prescription is going to be on the weak side and it will be up to you how much and when you want to wear your glasses with the exception that now you wil be restricted to wearing glasses when driving. Once you get your glasses and pass the DMV eye exam your drivers license will have a letter marked under the word "restrictions" and that letter means you need to be wearing glasses for driving. If you were to get pulled over for any reason and not have your glasses on you would be subject to a big fine. They would ticket you for "careless and reckless driving"

Tom 21 Nov 2014, 21:59

Sara, you shall expect very light glasses for nearsightedness, for sure less than 1 diopter, to be worn just while driving. If you didn't realize your vision is less than perfect, there is no need for you to wear glasses but for driving.

Let us know, I may be wrong...

sara 21 Nov 2014, 21:36

i have a question. i just failed my DMV eye exam. now i need to go to the yedoctor. Ive never worn glasses before. what should i expect at my real eye exam. will i need glasses all the time?

Soundmanpt 21 Nov 2014, 10:33


No barely any at all. Her increase was the least possible when she got new glasses. In fact many wouldn't even bother getting new glasses for such a small increase, even more so considering she must wear contacts most often and her glasses are mainly a backup. Also the -.25 difference would only be noticeable to her at a greater distance like outside, inside her home her vision is probably perfect with her previous glasses.

And 21 Nov 2014, 08:31

My gf has two pairs of glasses, her older pair has a prescription that is -.25 less than her newer pair but she tends to put them on at home at night if she takes her contacts out as her newer pair are kept in her bag - does the .25 not make a big difference ?

Cactus Jack 08 Nov 2014, 14:44


Contact lenses depend on a good tear film between the lens and your cornea to be worn comfortably. It is possible that you are developing dry eye problems. You can try artificial tears with a lubricant and see if they help. Avoid brands that reduce redness etc.

You should also see your ECP for assistance in diagnosing the problem. Dry eye problems can lead to other eye problems and should be evaluated.


SoCal 08 Nov 2014, 13:35

Okay, I don't know if I'm wearing my contacts too much. I've been having problems we wearing them for 8+ hours and then sometimes my eyeball feels bruised. I've never had this sort of problem before. I was always good with wearing them (biofinity) for 16 hours and even overnight. I've switched back to my glasses but I'm just wondering how long this is going to last. Any feedback would be helpful.

Soundmanpt 08 Nov 2014, 08:30


It is best not to wear contacts while showering because the water has chemicals in it that aren't good for contacts. Now if your able to shower without getting water or very little water in your eyes then that is probably why you have never had any problem. But to be safe you really should practice leaving them out until after you shower. Even being -6.00 you should be able to see well enough to shower without correction.

Contacts are never going to be as good for your eyes as wearing glasses. But to be honest a part of that is because so many abuse so many things with wearing contacts. Forgetting or not bothering to take them out when sleeping, wearing them many hours longer each day than they should, improper cleaning of them and of course wearing the same lenses way past the one day or 2 weeks time they should be wore. Of all the contact wearers out there probably only a very small percentage of them wear lens as they should.

Neil 07 Nov 2014, 12:04

Hi Cactus Jack,

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I did post, from my phone, but for some reason it failed to post.

I am degree / post-graduate educated and work as a business consultant. I have a rudimentary grasp of maths, I'm being a little harsh on myself... I'm sure I'll follow what you have to say, else I will Google it.

So, don't dumb it down please and thank you so much for taking the time to help, I really appreciate it.

Cactus Jack 05 Nov 2014, 18:14


Maybe, but before we get into the technicalities of double vision, I need to ask two more questions.

What is your occupation?

What is your educational background?

I am not trying to be nosy, I like to understand a bit about your background and experience when I am writing an explanation. In this case, there won't be much math in evolved, but my goal is to try to provide understanding so you will know as much as possible about what is happening.

There can be many causes of double vision. Just to give you an idea of where I am heading. The fact that the additional plus seemed to help with the double vision is interesting. Here is a tidbit to consider. There is an interconnection in your brain between your focus control system and your eye positioning system. The strength of this interconnection varies with individuals. This interconnection is what causes your eyes to try to converge when you expend effort to focus close. It can also work in reverse, but not as strongly. When you look at something close, your eyes have to converge to NOT see double. The convergence can trigger close focusing.action, but it is not as noticeable.

If you have hyperopia and have to expend extra effort to focus, even for distance, it can cause your eyes to try to converge and see double.

You may have noticed that often children who are hyperopic also have problems with their eyes turning inward or crossing (squint). Sometimes, just fitting them with PLUS glasses will minimize the tendency tor their eyes to converge and avoid the need for prism in addition to the PLUS correction.

I am not ready to suggest any changes or additions tests, yet. If the +1.50 helps, don't be hesitant to use them or even try a bit stronger.

Age is very loosely related to the need for focusing help. The idea that focusing help is not needed until around 40 is a myth. It depends on many things, including your visual environment. These days, even teens are needing reading help. The cause? Tiny text on smartphones and tablets. In general the teens have latent hyperopia and the extra focusing effort reveals early onset of presbyopia that probably would not have been noticeable for several more years.


Neil 05 Nov 2014, 15:08

Hi Cactus,

Wearing the readers on top definitely seemed to reduce to double vision.

Doesn't this mean I need varifocals? Presummably the optician thinks I am too young?

Thank you

Cactus Jack 04 Nov 2014, 18:58


It has been my experience that the amount of displacement in the Prism Test will vary some depending on time of day and your fatigue level. Try the test at different times. My eyes tend to turn inward or converge more when I am tired.

When you were wearing the +1.50 glasses over your regular glasses, what effect did it have on the double vision?


Chris 04 Nov 2014, 17:52

I have pretty bad, but not severe vision (around -6) and the first thing I do every morning is fumble around to put in my contacts. I've had the same morning routine for years until someone recently pointed out that I'm not supposed to wear contacts in the shower. I've been wearing contacts in the shower for years and have never heard of not doing so. Do you guys wear glasses in the shower? Are contacts really a bad idea for your vision's sake?

Neil 04 Nov 2014, 13:07

Hi Cactus Jack,

Thanks for all your help so far. I found your test on the site you mentioned. I think I did it correctly, although I struggled a little because the displaced image (from my left eye I think) was quite faint.

I think I averaged out at about 6 dioptres, which is less than the optician measured. I was expecting the opposite if I'm honest, in that I thought the optician may have played down the number a bit.

I have tried readers over the top of my existing glasses (+1.5) and it makes computer work much nicer.

Is that what you'd expect on both scores?

Many thanks


Likelenses 02 Nov 2014, 22:58

High Myopic

Yeah, go for it.

High Myopic 02 Nov 2014, 21:15

Would adding many prisms to a -15 diopter pair of glasses help me easier see clearly in them?

Cactus Jack 02 Nov 2014, 18:35


You might find the Simple Prism Test I wrote on the Vision and Specs site under the Vision/Special Lenses for Eye Conditions> Prisms thread interesting.


Cactus Jack 02 Nov 2014, 07:59


I think the argument could be applied to prescribing ANY vision correction. It isn't long until the patient wants or needs "stronger" correction.

I think sharp, comfortable, effortless vision is addictive. The operative word there is comfort. I am certainly addicted to comfort, it does not matter if it is vision, shoes, chairs, weather, etc. I like comfort and am apparently willing to pay for it, as are millions of others.


Mild double vision is more common that most people think and unlike very mild hyperopia and myopia, even a little bit is a big nuisance. I think I can help you understand what MAY be causing your double vision, but my reply will be a bit lengthy and take a while to write. In the meantime could I suggest an experiment?

If you can get a pair of low power (+1.00 to +1.50) over the counter reading glasses, you might try wearing them over your regular glasses for close work. Sometimes headaches and particularly double vision are caused by focusing effort - I explain why in my reply to your questions.


Julian 02 Nov 2014, 01:01

Cactus Jack says that ECPs are 'trained that prism correction is addictive ... the need for prism typically increases'. Sounds like an argument for not prescribing minus sphere ::)

Neil 02 Nov 2014, 00:09

Thank you Cactus Jack,

That is very clear and makes sense. I live in England. The prism is base out.

May I ask about your experience with prisms, since it sounds like you had similar symptoms? What is your requirement now at 77?

The optician said, you need 8, but I'm not giving you that or else you'll be asking me for 10 when I see you in a year. The double vision is a real nuisance. I guess I'm troubled by the lack of knowledge of a cause.

Many thanks

Cactus Jack 01 Nov 2014, 18:37


I have some experience with prism correction. I started developing double vision problems around your age and have been wearing Base Out prism since then. I am 77 now.

It is very difficult to get Eye Care Professional (ECP) to prescribe full prism correction for two reasons. They are trained to avoid prism correction if possible and are often reluctant to prescribe a patients first prism correction. They are trained that prism correction is addictive, which I think is too strong a word, but the need for prism typically increases, but some of that may be because of not fully correcting the problem.

May I ask where you live? (country)

I did not understand the prism element in your glasses. Do you know if the prism is Base Out? That is what is used to correct over convergence. Base In is used to correct Divergence.

If you have convenient access to Over the Counter Reading glasses, could I suggest trying some +1.25 or slightly stronger reading glasses over your regular glasses and see if that has any effect on your headaches or double vision.

You are concerned about having noticeable squint if you wear prism glasses. The amount of displacement wearing prism produces is about 0.57 angular degrees per prism diopter. It typically has to get up to at least 10 prism diopters in each eye before it will be noticeable to anyone but an ECP. Because you wear a low PLUS prescription the small increase in outside edge thickness for Base Out prism will be barely noticeable. That is the least of your worries. The important thing is visual comfort and even a small amount of double vision can be a real nuisance.

I live in the US and we call the people to prescribe glasses Optometrists. When I started having double vision problems, I had to visit several Optometrists to find one who would listen to my problems and prescribe enough prism to minimize the double vision. At some point, you may need to change ECPs to get satisfaction.


Neil 01 Nov 2014, 17:37

Thanks Helpful,

If my new glasses don't work I may well look into online options.


Helpful 01 Nov 2014, 03:07


I came later to prism than you. Opticians from reading ES have a reluctance to give the full amount of the prism someone needs as shown on the test feeling it will worsen in time if they do. That is not my experience. I ordered glasses with prism from Zenni and they were superb at a fraction of the cost in fact I could have had 3 pairs from what the Optician would have asked me to pay.

You could order from them with the prism you found comfortable but it is your decision as only you know and experience your sight.

Best of luck perhaps those more experienced than me will comment

Neil 31 Oct 2014, 10:53

Hi there,

I went to the optician today because I'd been having really bad eye strain and intermittent double vision.

I wasn't due a test for a year, but these issues prompted me to go.

I already had glasses with 1 prism dioptre base out in each lens. The optician said she was measuring me as 4 in each eye, but she wasn't going to give me that. So, I've been prescribed 2 in each eye.

When she asked me if the lines were lines up in the OXO test I told her I could see two boxes, there was meant to be one - she seemed a bit surprised. It felt good when she added prism to line things up, so much more comfortable. Then she took some out and made me work to line things up, which I could feel my eyes going, no please leave me alone!

Do you think that 2 base out in each eye will be enough to cure the headaches? I don't want to develop a visible squint.

She did say she was concerned because I had no history of a squint. She said my eyes shouldn't be doing this - if it continues to worsen she would be worried about a neurological condition, which has freaked me out a bit.

I am 39 and the prescription is:

R: +.75 -.25 30 Near +.75 Inter +.5

L: +1.25 -.75 165 Near +.75 Inter +.5

Anyone have any experience?

Soundmanpt 31 Oct 2014, 09:37


It is very possible that with her wearing her glasses her eyes will relax even more and she likely will soon need an increase in her reading add. She may or may not need any change in her distance part, but it could be that she might need a very slight increase if they find she can see somewhat better with an increase of maybe another -.25 in each eye. I don't think her distance will change much if at all.

Barts 30 Oct 2014, 10:38

Ok Soundmanpt, I rather understand an increase for the close vision but what do you mean about the distance vision? and for what reasons?

Soundmanpt 30 Oct 2014, 10:09


Most people don't make an eye appointment unless they are starting to suspect that they are are having some type of vision problem. The fact that your gf is 43 means she is at the perfect age where it is very common for reading to become more and more of a challenge to the eyes. And added to that if she recently started a course that runs 6 hours per day and is very intense as well and requires the use of her close vision that would be enough to make even a subtle change in her vision more noticeable to her. The idea of getting progressives was a good idea so that her vision should be very good not only for seeing close but even slightly better for seeing distances now. The fact that she has never wore glasses before may take a little getting used to but since she will most likely be wearing them everyday for those 6 hours should really help her adjust to them rather quickly and if she is planning on wearing them for driving she will probably keep her glasses while she is driving home or where ever she maybe going each day. After a few days of doing this she will hardly even think about having her glasses on and won't bother taking them off very much.

Don't be surprised that withing 6 months she will need and increase in her prescription, mostly for her close vision with a possible tweak for her distance vision.

Barts 30 Oct 2014, 07:54

Thanks Aubrac, actually I had written her full prescription in the post from some days ago:

OD: Sphere -0.25

OS: Sphere -0.25, Cilynder -0.50, axis 45°

Add +1

So latent hyperopia shouldn't be the case.

The optical shop where she got glasses hadn't a great choice for larger frames.. (necessary for progressive), plastic one they suggested to her were quite boring and she waited for me to go with her, then after trying and retrying million times almost every pair of glasses of the shop :) she went for nicer and less noticeable goldish satin metal frames.. but I think that metal is better for smaller sizes... so that they result to be quite too large for her face (she thinks the same) and definitely they don't make her look younger ;) so I don't think she will go for fulltime.. ;)

Aubrac 30 Oct 2014, 05:29


Your gf prescription is similar to the first one my wife had at 39. Depending on whether her glasses are to correct latent hyperopia, i.e. she has always been longsighted but without knowing it because she had sufficient accommodation to correct it, or presbyopia i.e. the crystalline lens cannot be reshaped by the ciliary muscles to focus, will really determine how things go.

If she has latent hyperopia it is quite likely she will need two increases in correction over the next twelve months or so. My wife had an increase after only six months, and then another after 15 months after which things settled down until at 44 she wore varifocals.

Varifocals often take some adjusting to and full time wear will get her used to them more quickly apart from less eyestrain and all round clearer vision.

Barts 30 Oct 2014, 02:41

Thanks SC and Soundmanpt, very helpful as always.

Actually things went on in the meantime, she decided to go for two pairs! the progressive as said and a pair of readings to try while waiting for the progressives, with the cylinder correction too:

OD: +0.75

OS: +0.75, -0.50 x 45°

The very immediate impression was that reading is really much easier! In my opinion more for the astigmatic correction than for the plus add, or the two things combined. Me too actually have a -0,50 astigmatism in left eye and sometimes I have the sensation of a little confusion while reading that brings to some fatigue. Mine is 180° though and for what I learned it should be the least symptomatic, could her 45° be actually more tricky or beeing the amount so small it makes really no difference?

Anyway the progressive arrived then, she tried them on for an afternoon and then for lessons and the only comment was that they worked very good for reading and then to see more far. I suppose they produced no significant difference for distant vision, actually I always noticed that she can easily distinguish every small detail far away perfectly, though talking after the vision test she sounded quite conscious of needeing glasses as she deliberately talked she may wear them at cinema and for driving.

I did not ask directly to not give too much importance to that, but may it be that in the past she already felt the need of some aid and always hid it easily with some squint (her eyes actually show some signs of it). Could it be that the sphere amount was higher in the past and not only the -0.25 prescribed now at 43 y.o. with incipient presbyopia?

SC 28 Oct 2014, 06:39


Your girlfriend's Rx is similar to my first prescription (@44yo -0.25 add +1.25)

For me the need for glasses wasn't borderline - I definitely needed them for reading and had been holding off some time. I too went for progressives although to be honest the distance made no difference - they were just more useful and I didn't feel so old!

Your girlfriend may appreciate the astigmatism correction more than me (mine was only -0.25)

The answer to how useful they'll be is really down to the need for the test - if she is struggling with small print then they will be useful!

I would suggest:

1) if you get progressives then the reading add will be bumped up to +1.5 by the optometrist - that always seems to be the minimum for progressives - ie mine jumped from +1.25 at the test to +1.5 in reality - you can see this etched in the lens when you get them

2) if she wears them frequently, ie all day in front of a computer, or all the time for convenience, then her close up vision will deteriorate quite quickly without glasses - if she just wears them as reading glasses then she will not become dependent as quickly

3) progressive lenses are not so good for reading in bed, if she does this I'd recommend some over the counter readers from a supermarket as an extra pair

4) I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the SPH (-0.25) part of the prescription - 43yo is about the point where hyperopia may become a factor and so the SPH may change - possibly going from minus to plus (mine did) and again is tied into the reason for the test - if she is struggling to read now then it is more likely to be plus in the future (my glasses are +1 add +2)

guest 28 Oct 2014, 04:47

Eat plenty of green leafy vegetables.

Take AREDS 2 vitamins.

Keep pressure below 16, even if redline is considered 25.

Don't participate in a UFC match lol.

Just keep up exams with a retina specialist, preferably in a university hospital setting.

How old are you?

any genetic vision problems.

relax and don't stress it, but be aware of the symptoms

Curious myope 27 Oct 2014, 22:44


I'm very highly myopic (-12.25/-12.50), and in the realms of being considered to be potentially at risk from retinal detachment (although all seems fine currently). I've read that people with high myopia over -6 have a 1 in 20 chance of retinal detachment, but how does this risk increase with your prescription beyond -6? I'm double that now, so would it be a 1 in 15, 1 in 10 risk etc? The risk must increase substantially but I've never found anything written about this.


Soundmanpt 27 Oct 2014, 08:44


The prescription she received is very much on the weak side and she as she was told she is barely on the borderline for glasses. But because of all that she is doing now she is no doubt putting considerable strain on her eyes. So even a weak prescription should at least relax her eyes more than not having them.

Her distance vision is nearly perfect since it is only -.25 in each eye and not really worth getting glasses for, but she does have some astigmatism in her left eye and that doesn't take much to have an effect on her vision. If she didn't have that I would just suggest that she could buy some over the counter readers in +1.00 as that should take care of her reading. But readers can be a pain if she is looking down at say a book and then needs to look up to see something written on the board. With progressives now when she looks up from reading or studying her book she will be able to see the board without any problem.

Once she gets her glasses it will be up to her how much she chooses to wear them, Her vision is without a doubt fine for driving her car without the aid of glasses, but he may find them helpful when she is driving after dark. If she is comfortable wearing them she may want to just wear them all the time so she knows where they are.

Barts 26 Oct 2014, 15:16

Hello everybody,

my girlfriend (43 y.o. and no glasses ever) during a routine check at the eyedoctor talked about new difficulties to switch from up close reading/writing to distant vision for the blackboard, now that she started since a few a weeks a very challenging course, 6 hours per day of intensive lessons, a lot to study etc..

Doing the vision test here was the result:

OD: Sphere -0.25

OS: Sphere -0.25, Cilynder -0.50, axis 45°

add +1

The doctor told she had to decide if getting glasses or not beeing this a borderline rx for prescribing glasses.

After talking with me she decided to give them a try and get progressive lenses.. also to find out if she could get a more restful vision without squinting that much (her own words).

Does it make sense to get glasses with this prescription in your opinion?

Carrie 03 Oct 2014, 15:11

Gemma, my girlfriend, gets her new glasses tomorrow! She won't tell me which ones she's getting other than they were among the many frames we looked at. She ordered them secretly to surprise me. I'm trying not to show how excited I am (like a kid on Christmas eve!) but still trying to seem interested without being over interested.

benn 30 Sep 2014, 11:38

That is what my first wife does, -28 with -3.5 and -3.25.

Torics don't work. she brings it down to about -4.00 and gets good vision. All of the astigmatism in the glasses.

Really works at night.

Cactus Jack 28 Sep 2014, 21:03


Sphere only soft contacts are pretty inexpensive, but specially made toric contacts are very pricey and as you said, don't always work very well. I have wondered if correcting a significant portion of the sphere with soft contacts and the balance of the sphere and cylinder correction with glasses, would be a practical solution to improve the VA of people with very high sphere prescriptions.

Very high minus sphere also usually indicates that the eyeballs are significantly elongated and it is likely that the shape of the retina is distorted. It may be very difficult to prescribe and make a lens that gives sharp focus over the high resolution part of the retina.


Ellen 28 Sep 2014, 14:18

Hey Cactus Jack

I didn't get the full gist of your post earlier but I've just reread it and see your point now. This the very thing I used to do in my late teens and early twenties. My spherical prescription was a bit lower back then, about -15 or so and I used to wear contacts around -10 to -12 (I tried several combinations) and had the rest of the sphere and the astigmatism corrected with glasses. There were two main problems with this; the glasses were still quite strong and cosmetically they didn't offer much as I was still in thick glasses. Also as you mention, my corneas are very steep and oddly shaped and so the contacts never seated well and would move about making the quality of my vision very variable. A third thing was the cost. After a while I just gave up and settled for glasses in my full prescription. My optician has mentioned that I could get contacts tailor made to fit my eyes but they are horrendously expensive so I haven't tried them yet. Maybe I will, just out of curiosity.


Ellen 28 Sep 2014, 14:04


I know you were being complimentary, don't worry, I was only joking. Nice to know there are people out there who appreciate us folk cursed with oversize eyes. Mine are brown I'm afraid though.

Likelenses 27 Sep 2014, 19:43


When I said prominent regarding your eyes,I meant it in a most complimentary manner.

I have always been attracted to women with larger eyes,especially blue,or green.As I said,I find it alluring.Even though your eyes are hiding behind your glasses,people like myself that love larger eyes,just appreciate them.

I certainly did not mean freaky.

You seem like a beautiful woman both outside,and in.

Cactus Jack 27 Sep 2014, 07:52


I have been wondering about the potential effectiveness of GOC for a person with a prescription such as yours. The idea that GOC might be more useful than just for allowing a person to comfortably wear very strong glasses, is not original with me. An Ophthalmologist / Eye Surgeon, here in Houston, regularly uses sphere only contact lenses to correct a persons vision into the range where Vertex Distance is not a factor and then is able to get a very accurate reading of their actual requirements for vision correction. Admittedly, his purpose is to determine the best power for an IOL for cataract surgery, but there could be other applications.

Your excellent relationship with your optician and your very high myopia, coupled with high astigmatism, might be ideal if you want to see if your vision can be improved to nearer 20/20.

The idea is this: Use Sphere ONLY contacts to correct most of the sphere component of your prescription to below -4.00. Then do a refraction with the contacts in place for a glasses prescription to be worn with the contacts. In other words, therapeutic GOC.

It is well known that glasses provide the most accurate correction for astigmatism, but it is possible that even sphere only, soft contacts, could make a small difference in your cylinder and axis correction. Of course, your ability to wear sphere only contacts depends on several factors including tear production. The advantage of soft contacts is their comfort, compared to RGP contacts. Also, with sphere only contacts, you don’t have the problem with lens rotation and instability that make toric contacts difficult to fit and wear for some people.

Anyway, I thought it might be an interesting experiment to get a better idea of your BCVA. Unfortunately, it is likely that your eyeball is elongated to the point where there is retinal stress and possible distortion, which may be impossible to correct with external lenses.

If you and your optician find the idea worth trying, I would appreciate a report on the results. The idea of using contacts for partial sphere correction may be useful to others with high prescription needs.


guest 27 Sep 2014, 07:41

I am glad you have that great attitude!!

Can't wait for you to tell us when you are coming to the west coast....many eyescene friends out there. Have you been to Venice Beach??

I have a friend that always wore a hat to sort of hide her -22, hi astig and some prism lenses. Showed her zenni and she got "almost" her rx for less than 30$ and proceeded to get 10 sets of all different colors and variety. She cant see 20/30 as with her special ones....but they don't cost 800$ either-and she is content with her almost correct vision, in exchange for a different pair for any outfit lol !

stay in touch

Ellen 27 Sep 2014, 05:28

Hi Likelenses

My are eyes are rather large I suppose. People say I have nice eyes and I've even had one or two ask why I "hide" them behind my glasses, which I guess is something of a backhanded compliment. Their size isn't apparent at all with my glasses on and I've not really seen my naked eyes for many years. I can of course see them in a mirror but I have to look from such a short distance that it's impossible to gauge the size in relation to my face. I just took a "selfie" to check how large they appear and also a side view. You got me worried when you said "prominent" but I don't think they're too freaky. Large yes and they do bulge forward slightly more than most people's but I'm happy with the appearance.

Likelenses 25 Sep 2014, 22:12


Welcome back.

Wow,You do have very high astigmatism.

I believe what your optician says about your corneas.It has been my observation also that high astigmatism is quiet visible to others.In your case though,your strong minus lenses would hide it,but it would be visible to others that know what they are seeing,when viewing your naked eyes.

I would guess that your eyes are also quite prominent,due to the high myopia,which I find very alluring.Of course the minification of your lenses does change that somewhat.None the less your eyes sound very sexy with,or without glasses on.

Cactus Jack 23 Sep 2014, 17:57


Sorry about I have done this so much it is like 2nd nature. I try to understand the needs of the propel asking the questions and make the explanations as easy as possible to understand. Now we can work with your actual prescription. I will amplify it a little:

OD (Right Eye): Sphere -0.50, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 180

OS (Left Eye): Sphere -0.25, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 020

Add +2.25

The primary element affecting your vision is pretty significant Presbyopia. You have a little accommodation left for reading and focusing close, but not very much. You did not mention your age, but your Presbyopia is about right for a person who is in the 40 to 50 age range. Many people want to attach a hard and fast rule to the relationship between Presbyopia and Age, but everyone is different. Presbyopia actually starts in childhood, but does not typically become a nuisance until late 30s or early 40s. Unless you like to read really close (such as in bed) you won't need much stronger Add than +2.50 or +3.00.

Normally, PD is not included in an Eye Care Professional's prescription, but is measured by the dispensing optician. You said your Distance PD was 59. I suspect your Reading PD is 55 or 56 mm. It is not very critical in low prescriptions like yours, but it can become very important in high or complex prescriptions. PD stands for Pupillary Distance. It is the distance between the centers of your pupils when looking straight ahead. Ideally, the Optical Centers of the lenses in your glasses will be spaced the same as the PD. When you look at something close, your eyes turn inward or converge. That is the reason the near PD is less than the distance PD and the reading segment is moved inward a few mm.

Lets put together a prescription for Computer Bifocals with distance set for 36 inches and the same absolute power in the reading segment as prescribed by your ECP.

OD (Right Eye): Sphere +0.50, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 180

OS (Left Eye): Sphere +0.75, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 020

Add +1.25

If you recall from my previous post, to focus at 36 inches for distance, rather than for 20 feet away ("far distance" in your original prescription) we need to algebraically add +1.00 to your original Sphere prescription. That had the effect of automatically increasing the power of the Add in the reading segment by +1.00, so we only need a +1.25 Add in the bifocal reading part to give you the same absolute optical power as +2.25 Add in your regular glasses.

I would order the above prescription with a PD of 58 for distance and 55 for near, but don't worry. It is unlikely that it will cause any serious optical problem if it is not exact.

I would suggest ordering online from a low cost retailer such as Zenni. Order the least expensive frame, standard lined bifocal lenses, and no options. I suspect you are talking less than US$20.00. If you like the results, you can order fancier frames and lens options, but there is no need to order high index lenses in a prescription this low.

Another alternative, if you are interested, is to order some +1.00 clip on magnifiers from Rx Safety Glasses, for around US$15.00 and wear them over your regular glasses. If you want to consider this option, we need to talk a bit more.

Here is the prescription to order:

OD (Right Eye): Sphere +0.50, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 180

OS (Left Eye): Sphere +0.75, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 020

Add +1.25

PD 58/55


Robert 23 Sep 2014, 15:30

Thanks for the info, but I find it a bit confusing. Here is from the slip:

OD: -.50 -.25 180

OS: -.25 -.25 020


My previous add was only 2.00 and that was ok.

So using this, what is the pd for "regular bifocal" and for close (reading) and computer (36"). How exact must it be? As I wrote before, the distance PD is 59


Cactus Jack 23 Sep 2014, 08:59


I did not answer your question about the glasses power needed for focusing at 36 inches.

Generally, you start with your distance prescription and only adjust the Sphere part of your prescription. You NEVER adjust the cylinder or axis. They stay the same for any focus distance.

Reading segments in bifocals or trifocals are specified by an ADD for the reading segment. Its power is always specified as PLUS number from about +1.00 to about +3.50 (it can be outside this range, but it is rare). The amount of the ADD is based on two factors, your preferred focus distance and how much of the required focusing power you can supply using your built in ciliary muscles and crystalline lens. If trifocals are specified, the intermediate segment will be 50% of the power of the reading segment, unless specified otherwise.

If you want to order bifocals with the "distance" segment (top part of the glasses) set for a distance of 36 inches, you need to think in terms of absolute sphere power of the "distance" part and then a relatively smaller ADD for the reading segment.

Again, you did not mention your actual prescription, so i'll make one up.

R Sphere +1.00, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 85, Add +2.25

L Sphere +1.25, Cylinder -0.50, Axis 80, Add +2.25

PD 59/56 (the second number in the PD is the near PD

If I wanted to order some bifocals with the "distance" part set for 36" and the reading part set for 14" I would proceed as follows:

Using Sir Isaac Newton's formula for calculating lens powers I would get this:

39.37 (inches in a meter)/ 36" = +1.09. Close enough to +1.00. The absolute power of the "distance" part of the glasses needs to be:

R Sphere +2.00, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 85

L Sphere +2.25, Cylinder -0.50, Axis 80

Notice that I did not change the Cylinder or Axis.

The Add for near needs to be REDUCED by the +1.00 to maintain the same Absolute Power for focusing close.

R Sphere +2.00, Cylinder -0.25, Axis 85, Add +1.25

L Sphere +2.25, Cylinder -0.50, Axis 80, Add +1.25

I would suggest a PD of:

58/56 but the PD offset for near may not come out exactly 56 because of the standard Bifocal blank PD reading reduction.

Hope this helps. Ask if you don't understand why I did to arrive at the new prescription.


Cactus Jack 23 Sep 2014, 08:22


The PD MAY be for distance, but you did not provide enough information about your complete prescription. Generally, a prescription for reading will have a PD of about 3 to 4 mm less than for a distance prescription, depending on the power of the ADD. The criticality of an accurate PD, depends on your complete prescription. The stronger any element of the prescription (except cylinder axis), the more critical the PD.


Robert 23 Sep 2014, 07:50

I found out that my PD is 59. I presume that is a PD for distance. How would I order glasses for reading, or for using my computer whose monitor is 36" from where I sit. I am thinking of a bifocal for distance and reading, and also a bifocal for computer and reading because with my readers I can't read the screen. How critical is it that these numbers are precise? Thanks.

Cactus Jack 22 Sep 2014, 21:06


Advanced Degree programs are famous for their visual work load and subsequent need for stronger prescriptions. It is true that axial myopia generally slows down or stops in the twenties, but that is not an absolute rule. There are actually two types of myopia, two different causes, but only one type of correction, MINUS lenses. The two types can be additive and both can be present in each eye. Axial or True Myopia is caused by a mismatch between the length of the eyeball and the total optical power of the eye's lens system. It is considered permanent because once the eye has grown longer, it will not shrink if the stimulus is removed. Genetics play a big role in Myopia, but close focusing to read is also believed to be a factor.

Pseudo or False Myopia is caused by the ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses being unable to rapidly relax after extensive close focusing. This results in the symptoms of blurry distance vision and the need for stronger MINUS glasses. Pseudo Myopia can ultimately relax, but it can take months or years depending on the visual environment. Pseudo Myopia is the same phenomenon as Latent Hyperopia except it is on the other side of 0.00.

People with Hyperopia will often experience headaches when reading extensively because the ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses are having to work extra hard to compensate for Hyperopia AND focus close. Often Hyperopes will discover that they need PLUS glasses and sometimes need a reading add in addition to their basic PLUS prescription. It is common for their PLUS prescription to need increases and their reading add to need increases also.

To the outside observer who is unfamiliar with how the eye's optical system and vision work to wonder what is going on, as you have. One interesting thing that is going on with young people these days is that the tiny text on Smartphone and Tablets is revealing Hyperopia and the early onset of Presbyopia at earlier ages than ever before. Notice that I said "revealing", the hyperopia was always there, but the requirement for very close focusing was not and many teens are discovering that they need glasses to help them focus close while still in high school.


 22 Sep 2014, 19:35

Does it seem to you guys like people with decent sight are starting to need stronger and stronger prescriptions well on into their 20s? I've always been told that the progression stops or at least stops during the early 20s but personally everyone around me seems to keep getting worse and worse vision. Any particular reason this is? I'm in graduate school

specs4ever 20 Sep 2014, 05:02

Once upon a time I went on the internet and found a number of different sites that suggested to me that the minification caused by a minus lens was a certain amount per diopter. I forgot where I found that, and I can no longer find it easily. This morning, before writing this post I went and searched again. It took a while before I found a statement that each diopter of minus causes a 2% minification. That sounds about right to what I had found before. Before when I had found the other statement I had discussions whith Jey Ping, a young student who was on here frequently at the time. We decided that, while 2% is likely pretty close up to a minus 10 lens, 40% for a -20D lens was a bit of a stretch. That would mean that a person with a -50D lens would have 100% minification. I know that is impossible, and there are some people in this world with -50D and higher(rare, yes, but indeed out there). In our discussions Jey and I figured that this was likely done exponentially whereas the minification degree dropped to a lower percentge as the minus power got higher. He was the mathmetician - I am not.

But I do know that some people are able to see with 20/20 v/a well into the -20D range, while other people loose the ability to see 20/20 between -10 and -20. Everyone is different.

The website that I found this percentage on was the myopia myth. I have found this website before and find that their statements are fairly correct, but they use the one glove fits all for their statements, and I know personally from experience that this is not the case. I know of classmates who were beginning myopes and ended up with glasses finally after years of squinting. I know one girl who refused to wear her rather strong glasses and her eyes continued to deteriorate rapidly. Myopia is caused by a number of factors.

And Ellen, I have a young lady who is very close to me who had a prescription of OD -10.00 x -4.25 x 28 and OS -10.50 x -5.00 x 152. Her prescription climbs slightly every couple of years and she is in her mid 30's, so it could be worse than yours before it stops.

AFan 20 Sep 2014, 00:57

Great information, Specs4Ever and Ellen! I was completely in the dark. I'm a measly -6.75 myself (although I estimate at least a -1 increase at my next exam) and my myopia is (luckily :) still at a gallop.

A few more questions/observations:

1. At what point does the minification produced by glasses generally preclude someone from seeing the 20/20 line? I reckon its somewhere around -11, but would like confirmation from someone more knowledgeable - as I'm sure eyesceners would understand, I fantasize about that moment when my optometrist tells me I'm not fully correctable :)

2. In high school, I was friends with a girl who was -12D (we talked a fair bit, so our mutually bad eyesight naturally came into the discussion eventually). She usually wore contacts to school, but on the rare days she wore glasses, I noticed that she would constantly squint, seemingly at everything. We sat together in the classes we shared, and it seemed like she was always struggling to read the board, even from the front of the room (by the way, I'm in the eyescene minority in that I'm not attracted to bare-eyed squints; what truly arouses me is girls squinting through their [preferably thick] glasses, clearly in need of a stronger prescription! - but that is beside the point)Interestingly, the high myopes I know seem to all mimic this habit of squinting at everything in the distance. This led me to wonder if they're just in need of an increase or if glasses don't give them full correction.

P.S. I graduated from high school a few years ago (I'm not quite comfortable revealing my exact age, but you can guess the ballpark). It was a small, private school, and more than half (more like 3/4) of the class was myopic. I was there from 6th to 12th grade, so I have quite a few interesting eyesight-related episodes to relate. If people are interested, I will post a few on the When I was at school... thread.

benn 19 Sep 2014, 16:39


Mine is -3.75 and -3.50. I do GOC too from -10 up to -25 and I will notice minifying when I first put them in then I don't notice except with very small print. I also use an add so it not an issue.


guest 19 Sep 2014, 16:30

Hi Ellen

Glad you are back...

No, you are not the highest old g/f had -19, -21 and 4 astig and biconcave lenses, years ago. She wore some toric c/l's occasionally but never comfortable.... The good news is, her vision is still in the 20/40 range at almost 60 years old. And no cataracts yet, they are nervous with her rx to insert, but she will come back to Bascom Miami from where she lives with her dr husband. And, by the way, she met him while wearing her thick glasses, not contacts !! So don't worry about the social crap lol !

Have fun, west coast soon? :0 bye

Ellen 19 Sep 2014, 15:32

Hi Specs4ever. My cyls are a bit on the high side; -4.25 and -3.75. I've never met anyone with a prescription anywhere near mine, although my closest friend has cyls of -2.75 in both eyes. My optician says she can tell my corneas are rugby ball shaped just by looking at them. I think (hope) she's joking.

I believe the minifying effect is caused by the lens being at a distance from the eye which is why contacts don't cause things to look smaller. The stronger the lens and the further away, the more pronounced the effect. I think wearing a positive contact to simulate myopia and then a negative lens to correct it should still give the same minifying effect.

specs4ever 19 Sep 2014, 07:33

I had not thought about mentioning the sweet spot, or the fact that vertex distance also makes a lot of diference Ellen, but I should have. I do not know what your astigmatism range is, but in any of the high myopes I have known who do have around 20/30 vision their astigmatism is less than -0.75D. One girl I knew a few years ago had very close to -25D with no atigmatism and her vision was phenomally good for someone with such a high script.

My experience is limited to discussions I have had with high myopes as well as reading as much as I could over the years.

I don't think my many years of doing GOC gives me quite the same result as being a natural high myope, but it does give me the experience of noticing the sweet spot, the vertex distance and the rather blurry vision when your eyes depart from the sweet spot in the lens. It becomes second nature to just move your head when wearing the strong GOC glasses that I do. With GOC I believe that the minification is not such a problem, because with a -10D glasses lens in order for a GOG'er to wear these glasses they require a +8.50D contact lens. To me this means the minification would be only equivelant to a -1.50D lens. Maybe I am wrong about thsi, but it does not seem to me that I notice any real minification until I get into the really strong GOC glasses.

Ellen 18 Sep 2014, 11:42

From first hand experience I concur with Specs4ever. It is possible for me to focus perfectly with my glasses (or at least it seems perfect to me) despite my high myopia and very high astigmatism. However it's not quite so straightforward as just looking and seeing. For one thing, perfect focus only occurs when my glasses are at a very precise distance from my eyes. Sliding my specs just a few millimetres down my nose effectively weakens the power of the lenses and my vision becomes nearsighted. My optician when testing my eyes is very careful to make sure that the trial lenses sit at the same distance as my finished frames will. The second point is that there is a very definite "sweet spot" in the centre of my lenses when my eyes will focus. Away from this my vision is blurred and quite distorted near the very edges of the lenses. Lastly, as mentioned below, my lenses make everything significantly smaller than they would be with a naked eye. Therefore I haven't a hope of reading the 20/20 line, not because it's out of focus but because it's just too small for me to see. My optician always tries me out with the 20/20 and 20/30 lines but the best she's managed to get me to read is a couple of letters on the 20/30. My best corrected vision therefore is 20/40. This all sounds horrendous to someone not used to wearing glasses but it's all I know and I'm not consciously aware of lacking any vision. I just adjust naturally without thinking, pushing my glasses up instinctively to give the clearest vision and always angling my head so I can see through the "sweet spot".

Specs4ever 17 Sep 2014, 10:00

With regards to your questions AFan, it is possible for someone with a very high minus prescription to be corrected to 20/20, but there are a few caveats. Little or no astigmatism helps. No other problems than the high myopia is a bonus as well. Generally the minifucation caused by the strong minus lens makes the letters on the eye chart so small that it is difficult for a very high minus to see them. actually they can see them, they are jsut too small. A BCVA of 20/30 or so is usually considered very good for a high minus like Kelli_monster.

Actually the myodiscs that she is wearing seem to be the ones she had on when she first came to everyones notice. For a while she was wearing a new pair - a really nice looking white frame also with myodisc lenses, but after writing about being arrested for something and having a run in with the police she appeared back in her black myo's. I wondered if perhaps the white frame was broken.

It si a shame that she has the problems she has. She is a cutter, and she is bi polar. Too bad because she is gorgeous with her strong myodiscs.

AFan 16 Sep 2014, 15:55

I saw that Fox_Trot_Bitch aka Kelli_Monster resurfaced, with some photos of her on the Seen on the Web page - now in massively strong myodiscs. A question I've had for a while now: what is usually the visual acuity of people in the -20s (myodisc-wearers?) I've had the feeling that myodiscs are sort of a last resort, but I'm curious: can somebody like Kelli be corrected to anything close to 20/20? And will her BCVA get even worse as her prescription grows? Thanks.

 13 Sep 2014, 08:11

That minus is Sarah Palin's I.Q., not necessarily her eyewear RX.

yo 12 Sep 2014, 22:48

Do you guys have any ideas on what Sarah Palin's prescription might have been? Its definitely minus something... but I can't tell if that minus would be astigmatism or light myopia

Soundmanpt 12 Sep 2014, 09:17


Yes! In every way you described.

Stew 12 Sep 2014, 08:36

My eyes were tired so I went for an exam and he told me I could use glasses for reading only that are 1.25. I have been reading fine without them. I picked them up yesterday. Was reading the paper this morning, and after a while remembered the glasses and gave them a try. Although I could read just fine without them, they did make the print a bit darker and bolder and maybe made it seem a bit closer. After a while I even forgot I was wearing them...unless I looked up in the distance. When I took them off however, I couldn't focus on the print, the smaller print was all a blur. I this normal for a first time wearer?

Soundmanpt 07 Sep 2014, 09:10


Considering that Gemma last got her eyes tested around 2 years ago she didn't come out too bad by only needing a -.75 increase in both eyes. But it's enough to cause her glasses to be a little weak for her eyes now. I'm sure you don't mind going glasses shopping with her at all. Not to mention i'm sure she wants your help in choosing new frames since your the one that will be seeing her wearing them the most. Just as i am sure she will be with you when you pick out new glasses when it's your turn to get new glasses.

I know you both enjoy trying on glasses at the various shops nearby but Gemma should really consider getting her glasses from Zenni. I'm sure you have seen the name Zenni numerous times in here. But the quality is very good as well as how the glasses look. If your concerned about they might fit just measure Gemma's current glasses across the face from the outside left to the outside right in millimeters and then simply pick glasses that are nearly the same width. Thye give 2 options of lenses that are included in the price at additional price 1.50 and 1.57 lenses. Just be sure to pick the 1.57. Even at her rx the lenses will not be very thick. And don't forget to click on the optional charge for AR coating (anti-reflective) witch is only $4.95 and worth every penny. But with everything she should be able to find several hundred for under $25.00 complete. I believe the shipping charge is about $7.00 to the UK. Her glasses will arrive within 2 weeks of placing her order. What; nice is that once she sees how good her glasses look she will probably want to order several more pairs since they are so inexpensive.

guest 07 Sep 2014, 08:11

TO AJ >>>

Didn't appreciate that comment. I have helped many with their questions here, regardless of gender, race, orientation, whatever.

Everyone is nervous and has questions on the best course of action before an operation.

And we are all against the "business machine" of the world. Sell more expensive lenses, whether they are best for the person or not. Multifocal in cataract op is an "add on".. SO are ultra thin lenses at a optical shop or 2for69 specials-when with high rx, vision will not be as good as plain cheap cr39's. The profit factor is after the sale, just like a car dealer trying to sell special warranty or lifetime finish etc...

Helpful 07 Sep 2014, 04:34


She would look even more inviting in those need I say more

Carrie 07 Sep 2014, 03:14

My girlfriend, Gemma, got her eyes tested yesterday. Only a small increase this time. Her old prescription was Left -3.50 Right -4.00. It's now Left -4.25 Right -4.75. She is planning on getting new glasses but couldn't decide on which frames to get from the choices in the opticians shop. We're going to have a look in a couple of other places and online. She is a little bit fed up that her eyes are still getting worse but relieved that it was a smaller increase than last time. If her eyes continue to get worse it would seem that at least one eye will get to -5.00 or over at her next eye test.

AJ 05 Sep 2014, 04:45

If "Ellen" were "Allen" instead, "Guest the Pest" would not have written anything to her.

guest 05 Sep 2014, 04:19

Hi Ellen!

Yes it is simple...but any operation to the high myopic eye is serious. They are stretched and more prone to trauma. That's why Moorefield's is the best choice there :)

Let us know when you are going to the west coast. Guess you are not crossing the pond on that trip-but the pole lol.

Happy weekend!


Ellen 04 Sep 2014, 14:59

Guest. You've made the operation sound so straightforward that it would seem a waste of Moorfield's talents or indeed those of your favoured Miami based purveyors of optical solutions.

CJ I'm wrestling with your assertion that high myopia comes with an inherent depth of field focusing advantage. My optician mentioned this and I argued with her at length and she admitted she couldn't think of a scientific basis for it (she's a friend, I don't go to my optician to be obtuse and start arguments). From experience she was adamant that people with myopia tend to need a reading correction later than those without. From my experience this is because I only need to move my glasses 2mm down my nose to reduce the effective power by a couple of dioptres making distance vision a bit blurry and reading very comfortable. Contacts afford no such advantage of course. The only way I know of increasing depth of field is by reducing the "f stop" of the eye, I.e. contracting the pupil. I have no idea whether there's any correlation between myopia and reduced pupil size (I would say not) but I would be happy to be proved wrong.

Guest again. What is it with you and this pond of yours? I haven't traversed this body of water since last Christmas and don't have any immediate plans to do so, although work may take me to the West Coast next year.

guest :( 04 Sep 2014, 12:02

First of all to Ellen....Moorfields is great, hope Mom is going there....all will be perfect :)


Bascom Palmer, Univ of Miami - is simply the BEST !!

(just for the record)

Cactus Jack 04 Sep 2014, 11:56


Sorry to be slow replying. You are right, there really is no comparison between natural vision with 15 - 18 diopters of effortless accommodation and vision with limited or no accommodation. As you said, by the time a person has reached their 60s, and accommodation has become minimal or non existent, a fixed single focus IOL is not much of a change, accommodation wise, from a person experiences with a natural crystalline lens and presbyopia.

The obvious benefit of an IOL is that clouded vision from a cataract is now crystal clear and there is another benefit available at no extra cost. If you analyze the eye's lens system, it consists of 4 very strong PLUS lenses. The obvious ones are the Cornea and the Crystalline Lens, but one should not overlook the contribution of the Aqueous Humor and the Vitreous Humor. If a person is Myopic, the PLUS power of the new IOL can be selected to be less than the PlUS power of the existing natural Crystalline lens. If a person is Hyperopic the IOL can have more PLUS power than the existing lens and thereby reduce or eliminate the need for a strong external prescription.

There is a curious phenomenon associated with high myopia. High MINUS glasses tend to act like wide angle camera lenses and the result is a very wide depth of field or range of useful focus. Sometimes, a person with high myopia does not need much close focusing help to read in bright light. If their Myopia is corrected with IOLs, they may find that they now need morel help focusing close than they did prior to the cataract surgery .

You are very fortunate in the UK to have Moorfields Hospital, on of the best eye hospitals in the world.


guest 04 Sep 2014, 04:35

Hi Ellen !

Glad you have a better understanding of all this :)

Remember when I said to you hat you will soon lose the two thick pieces of plastic in front of your eyes? Well, I guess Mom will lol.

You will I did.

When are you crossing the pond?


guest 04 Sep 2014, 04:35

Hi Ellen !

Glad you have a better understanding of all this :)

Remember when I said to you hat you will soon lose the two thick pieces of plastic in front of your eyes? Well, I guess Mom will lol.

You will I did.

When are you crossing the pond?


Ellen 03 Sep 2014, 01:09


It wasn't so much a misunderstanding, rather I was comparing an IOL with a natural lens in a young eye with plenty of accommodation. You're right, someone my mother's age has very little accommodation and so their eyes are essentially a fixed focus system. I guess I was wondering that if someone in their 60's has say 1D of accommodation this is maybe noticeably better than an IOL with none.

I live in the UK by the way.

Guest. 8:30 EDT is 1:30 where I live and unfortunately I still have to work in order to pay the bills so I won't be able to Lenschat at that time.

Cactus Jack 02 Sep 2014, 20:04


I think you may have misunderstood. Single focus IOLs are NOT a compromise. They really are not much different optically than a person who has clear crystalline lenses, but has presbyopia. A person with presbyopia has to wear reading glasses or bifocals or trifocals to focus close. Your Mother wears -8 glasses to correct her distance vision and, within reason, she can choose what prescription she would like to wear after cataract surgery. Single focus IOLs and bifocals air trifocals will give your Mother the best possible vision. Mono Vision is just two different powers of single focus IOLs, one for each eye, where one power is selected for distance and the other power is selected for focus at around 66 cm or 26 inches.

Myopia is usually caused by a mismatch between the total optical power of the eye's lens system and the length of the eyeball. Usually, myopia occurs because the eyeball has grown too much and is a bit longer than it should be for good distance vision. The amount of excess growth is about 0.3 mm per diopter so, if your mother wears minus 8 glasses here eyeball is a bit over 2 mm longer than it should be for 20/20 vision. Because there is no way to correct an eyeball that has grown too long, we can move the focus back to the retina by using minus lenses or in the case of cataract surgery a bit LESS PLUS in the IOL than was in the natural crystalline lens will do the trick.

Very few people these days have taken the time to learn how the optics of the eye work. Just briefly, there are actually 4 lenses in the eye's lens system with a total optical power of around +50 to +60 diopters. The "normal distance from the back of the lens system to the retina is about 17 mm. Sir Isaac Newton, of Gravity fame, discovered and codified the basic laws of optics about 300 years ago and they are still applicable today.

If your Mother's experience is similar to my experience and the experience of several friends, she will wonder why she waited this long for cataract surgery. She will be shocked and pleasantly surprised at how good her vision is. As I said before. there is absolutely nothing to be gained by waiting.

May I ask where you live? (Country)


bilbo 02 Sep 2014, 17:42

my wife has worn glasses all her life. her script is as follows .l -7.50 cyl -1.25 axis 158 add+1.50. r -6.75 cyl_1.50 axis 15 add +1.50 stupid question, but is this considered high or med myopia also she doesent seem to struggle at home without them !I am asuming she cannot see too well? is this standard? cheers

guest 02 Sep 2014, 15:58

Glad all this can be of help !

I went through 2...

Do you want to go on lenschat.... 830 EDT Tomorrow

or post a time that you want to go there on Thursday :)


Ellen 02 Sep 2014, 07:19

Thanks for your replies, particularly CJ for the "long winded discourse". It wasn't long winded at all, just packed with useful information from first hand experience. It's much appreciated.

OK the key things I take from this are that the IOL is compromise and that vision will never return to the level of a 5 year old and glasses will be needed for some activities. I did expect this, it makes sense as the IOL only corrects at two specific distances. It's nice to have it confirmed by someone who has gone through the surgery though and also to hear that the need for glasses isn't too burdensome. The second thing I'm glad to hear is that the surgery itself isn't too harrowing. Mum will be pleased when I tell her that part!

Thanks again

Cactus Jack 01 Sep 2014, 09:17


Guest is correct about multi-focal IOLs. There are several styles, but the idea is that there are at least two areas of the lens that have different PLUS powers. The central part has the PLUS power for distance and an outer ring has increased PLUS for focusing close. To my knowledge there is no presently available flexible IOL that can replace the natural Crystalline Lens and be focused by the Ciliary Muscles. However, I have read that there is some effort to develop such a lens. It is reasonable to assume that bifocal IOLs are compromises an take some effort to learn how to use them.

From a marketing point of view, the available multi-focal lenses seem to be targeted for people with severe VANITY issues and are willing to spend lots of money and deal with reduced Visual Acuity to avoid the dreaded Bifocals or Trifocals.

I’ll be 77 this month. I had cataract surgery 13 years ago. My background is Electronic Engineering and Computers and I had been wearing Trifocals since my late 30s. The surgeon said that he would not fit multi-focal IOLs for a person who really liked the best possible vision.

At the time, my prescription was R -2.75, L -4.50. He said he could easily correct my myopia to near 0.00 in both eyes, but he said that I would most likely need bi or trifocals for the best vision, no matter what I decided to do. The reason he could not guarantee 0.00 is that IOLs were only available in 0.50 increments. He suggested that I consider Mono Vision where he corrected my dominant eye to as near 0.00 as possible for distance and the other eye to about -1.50 for moderately close. He said that the IOLs would not correct my mild astigmatism because that was a separate issue that required additional surgery that is unrelated to the cataracts.

With Mono Vision, I would probably be able to see well enough without my glasses to be able to get up at night and read a prescription bottle and even legally drive without my glasses. He said that for precision vision, I would need glasses, but that was no big deal for me.

The surgery was the nearest thing to a medical non-event I have every been involved with, but it is a serious surgery and should be treated accordingly by following preparation instructions to the letter. I was very nervous about the first surgery (they only do one eye at a time even though it is very low risk surgery). It is typically done on an outpatient basis. The surgery took about 10-15 minutes after prep and when I recovered from the very mild anesthesia administered during final prep (you are actually awake for the surgery, but they give you some “happy” juice, to reduce anxiety). a friend drove me home.

The first surgery corrected my vision in that eye to 0.00. The next day, I took the lens out my glasses for the affected eye and drove myself to the surgeons office. He was pleased with the results, as was I and I asked the BIG question. “How soon can we do the other eye?”. He said, “Two weeks minimum, but it depends on your progress. Just follow the post op instructions and let me see you in a week. I will schedule it for two weeks out and we can decide to proceed when I see you in a week.” The second surgery in two weeks was a breeze. I knew what to expect and I have never looked back.

My vision today with my trifocals is 20/15 and I do anything I want to. One thing to be aware of is that the IOLs I got are actually a bit more efficient (6%) at light transmission than natural lenses. In very bright sunlight, sunglasses are not mandatory, but are certainly more comfortable than without. I use inexpensive clip on sunglasses. My night vision is excellent. I can even use the computer without my glasses. I also have a pair of single vision prescription reading glasses - I like to read in bed and they are more comfortable for extended reading than the trifocals because of the wider visual field.

There has been a lot of progress in lens technology in the 13 years since my cataract surgery, but I think Guest’s thoughts about single focus IOLs still applies. They give the best possible vision.

I hope this long winded discourse is helpful. Please let us know if you have more questions.

A couple of final thoughts.

1. Select the most experienced Eye Surgeon you can find. Cataract surgery today is one of the safest surgical procedures there is, but it is still surgery.

2. DO NOT delay getting surgery until the Cataracts get “ripe”. Years ago, before IOLs, cataract surgery was so risky and recovery was so long that it was avoided until there was no other choice but to be blind in that eye. Today, the incision in the side of the cornea is only about 3 mm long. The old lens is emulsified and sucked out. The new lens is rolled up and inserted through the incision. Your body heat causes the lens to unroll and it is positioned in the lens capsule where the old lens was. The tiny incision closes and heals without any stitches. The problem with waiting too long is that the old lens gets so hard that it is hard to emulsify and remove. While the lens is still soft, the tiny ultrasound “jack hammer” quickly dissolves the old lens and it is extracted in just a few seconds and the capsule is ready for the new IOL.


Galileo 01 Sep 2014, 08:41

Hi Ellen, my father had cataract surgery at the age of 92. He had previously worn glasses for most of his life. He did not need glasses for most activities after the surgery, he just needs "normal" reading glasses. I don't know how the technology works but his distance vision is a lot better than before the surgery and his medium distance vision for working around the house is also OK without glasses. He only uses them when reading or using his mobile phone.

guest :) 01 Sep 2014, 05:00

Hello Ellen !

It was me :) who posted before about implants after high myopia. I was double digits (exact numbers bounced around because different vision on different days and never fully correctable. I absolutely 100% am telling you NOT to get the fancy hi$ lens. There are many problems that could occur due to placement, measurement and issues with her eyes and her rx. Also, does she have astig?? Money was not an object with me as I'm sure it's not an issue with you or mom.

Basically, the procedure is right at 100% success and happy patient rate with regular lens. Guess what, it's not at that with fancy one. Soooooo, in a nutshell, she will be sooo happy to see without glasses that using the reading $1.00 glasses from the dollar store to read is no big deal. Also if she is astig, the fancy lens does not correct that anyway, so she will need glasses anyway-just not coke bottles.

If you want to go on lenschat to discuss at exact 840 EDT, its not 800, I will be there.

Remember, the less you do to the stretched myopic eye the better, we are prone to retina issues.


Ellen 01 Sep 2014, 03:25

Thanks for your replies. It's encouraging that good post op vision is possible. I'm still baffled how this is achieved though. Presumably the implanted lens isn't capable of accommodation? Or is it? I know that it's possible to make a lens with two focal lengths which is the principle behind some bifocal contact lenses. Is this how implanted lenses work, one power focuses the eye at infinity and the other at a reading distance? What about distances in between? The natural lens has continual focusing ability from a few inches to infinity. Surely it's not possible to replicate this with a rigid lens?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm just trying to understand this as well as I can to make an informed decision when the time comes for mum's surgery.

Val 31 Aug 2014, 13:04

Ellen, even today you can find two types of lenses. First type is cheaper, but after the implant the patient will have to use reading glasses and the second type, which is more expensive will eliminate the need for glasses near or far.

So, if their is no money problem, of course, the second type is the best.

Soundmanpt 31 Aug 2014, 11:06

first time poster

It can't hurt to try and see how they work. It should help that your only going to be wearing them for limited times as opposed to full time.

I am curious though you came to have a pair of glasses with with your exact prescription in them except for the added -.50 CYL in one lens? Were these your previous glasses but at your last exam you were maybe not given any correction for astigmatism? Because it is very possible if you were going to renew your contacts that your doctor may have just dropped off the cyl for your contact prescription? Did you get a copy of your prescription for glasses when you went? It's possible that your glasses prescription still includes the cyl.

Also even if your astigmatism has gone away which can happen they should still work fine because the axis would be the same and your cyl could return at your next exam even.

You really should be able to see fine with them and if any headaches were to even develope I think it would be after wearing them for a prolonged period of time.

Soundmanpt 31 Aug 2014, 10:54


My mother has since past away 11 years ago at the age of 93. When she was in her late 70's she had cataract surgery on both eyes. Before her surgery she had been wearing glasses not quite as strong as your mother but around -5.50 and her add was in the +2.50 area too. She had the lens implant much like you mother will be getting and if anything it is probably even better now then it was 30 some years ago when my mother had it done. Her results were no more glasses for distance or close up. The only side effect sh had and I would think that is much better by now was that her eyes were very sensitive to sunlight. She used to wear those "solar glasses" which completely cover the eyes from all sides.

Your mother should do great and probably glasses free.

Ellen 31 Aug 2014, 10:21

I remember a while back on here someone mentioning that they'd had lens implants for cataracts which were also used to correct quite a high degree of myopia. I'm curious as to what the quality of vision is like after such an operation. How is near vision catered for? Is it possible to read and see at a distance without additional correction? The reason I ask is that my mother has recently been diagnosed with cataracts and told she will need them operating on within a year or so. She currently wears glasses for myopia of around -8 dioptres plus a reading addition of 2.5. Any information on cataract surgery would be much appreciated, particularly from someone with first hand experience. Hope this is the correct place for such a post.

first time poster 30 Aug 2014, 17:04

Thank you Soundmapt, I like the frames I have, so I would not want to buy new ones from Zenni. I'll try to see if I can manage with them, I usually wear contacts so they are only back up. The script is L -3.25 0.50 R -3.50

Soundmanpt 29 Aug 2014, 17:20

first time poster

The question is how well are you able to see with them? If your able to see okay without getting a headache then even though it's not a great idea but if the glasses are better than not having glasses then wear them. My thought is that after you have them on for a prolonged period your likely to start getting a headache as a result. If that happens then you have your answer.

Since you seem to know what your prescription is why don't you just order glasses on line from Zenni? ( You can get very nice pair of glasses without that added -.50 CYL (astigmatism) for around $20.00 - $25.00.

first time poster 29 Aug 2014, 17:07

Hello, I have a pair of glasses that have the right prescription for me, apart from an extra 0.50 for astigmatism in one eye which I don't need. How bad will it be for my eyes if I wear them sometimes? Thanks

Soundmanpt 25 Aug 2014, 12:20


Your wife probably doesn't even consider that her eyes are being "over-corrected" whens she is wearing glasses. And your right that she started wearing them because she knew that it would get your attention. But it also helps that she was able to see perfect with glasses (-.75) as soon as she put them on. The results likely would not have been as good if you had tried to get her to wear those -2.00 glasses right away instead. I assumed the -2.00 glasses were your idea and your just hoping she will wear stronger glasses for you. But the glasses are forcing her eyes to work much harder to see things clearly. Even after only wearing them for an hour i'm sure when she first takes them off her vision is considerably blurry until her normal vision returns. She has to be concerned that by wearing those glasses very much her perfect vision maybe ruined. Now even though that is nearly impossible at her age, she isn't likely to believe that.

I'm sure you were at least a little disappointed when you went away with her and you suggested that she wear glasses then and she refused except to wear them at dinner for your anniversary. But you should still suggest that she wear them on a one day get-away. If you ask enough she may finally give in, but I think only with the -.75 glasses which she has at least found comfortable even if she won't admit it to you.

I think it best if you stop pressuring her to wear the -2.00 glasses and if she happens to put them on from time to time just be happy. Other wise be glad she wears the weaker ones.

Eric 24 Aug 2014, 21:41


I don't believe my wife enjoys being over corrected. I think she wears the glasses because she likes the special attention she gets from me.

Last vacation I suggested her to wear the glasses full time, but she didn't wanted. Apart from watching tv, she only wore them when we went out for dinner on our anniversary.

I bought the -2 glasses because I wanted to see her with glasses a little bit stronger. When she saw the glasses she liked the frames but when she first tried them on didn't liked the prescription. She wore them for a few minutes and I had to insist on her to keep them on.

Last night she returned to the -0,75 ones when watching tv.

Likelenses 24 Aug 2014, 18:49


In addition to her minus,perhaps there is also an astigmatism correction.

Most people require full time wear when the astigmatism correction in the better eye is .75 or more.

Also many young myopes read too close,which strains the eyes,and the minus glasses will help them to keep the reading material farther away,until the myopia increases,at which time they will begin to read closer,until new stronger glasses are obtained.Most doctors want a young person to wear minus glasses full time at - 3.00 for this reason,although if a person habitually reads too close,the recommendation would be made with weaker minus prescriptions.

Soundmanpt 24 Aug 2014, 14:27


There is no harm in her wearing her glasses full time even if her prescription was only -1.00. Yes her eyes are going to get trained or accustomed to having them on all the time and when she first takes them off she will of course notice the difference but only what her own eyes are lacking to see. Now if she were to lose her glasses somehow and be without them for say a week. At first she will miss her glasses but her accommodation will soon return and she won't miss her glasses nearly as much then.

Bottom line is if she were to never wear her glasses at all her vision would change exactly the same as if she wears them full time as she is now. When she is 12 years old no matter what she does she is going to need an increase. But even if she never had gotten glasses when she was 11 she was going to be at the same numbers.

Julian 24 Aug 2014, 12:31

Tom, Soundmanpt: in any case, if she has normal accommodation for her age, surely there's harm in wearing her glasses full time.

Soundmanpt 24 Aug 2014, 11:19


If she is comfortable wearing her glasses full time even if her prescription were much weaker then -2.00 she really isn't doing any harm to her eyes because her vision is going to change regardless of how much or how little she wears her glasses. That being said the exception is when she is doing very much close work such as reading a book for an extended period or just doing her homework she shouldn't need her glasses for that and it would be better if she didn't wear them then. Otherwise she probably just prefers having clear vision all the time and chooses to wear her glasses for that reason.

Tom 24 Aug 2014, 09:20

Recently on the seaside I met a family which has a 11 yo daughter. She has been wearing full time a pair of glasses around -2, maybe less, for every activity but for bathing (!). She seems very comfortable with her glasses and always keeps them on whenever she can. I'm wandering if it is really a good idea to have a child wearing such glasses full time. For sure bareeyed vision is good enough for her to do everything without but, maybe, board and TV, since glasses are not that strong (differently is she was say -4 or more). After all, children doesn't have to drive of perform actions that require perfect eyesight. On the oher hand, wearing that glasses for everyting incuding close activities (smartphone, reading, playing cards) she is forcing her eyes to an accomodation effort through the lenses that would be much lower if she could not wear, being stil able to focus perfectly below half a meter from her face.

In summary, I don't think it is a good idea to make children to wear negative glasses full time unless they are so strong that without correction they can't play, recognise people or reading as a normal person would do (i.e. stronger than -3 or even more).

What do you think about this topic?

Soundmanpt 23 Aug 2014, 12:14


It seems that your wife is a "closet glasses wearer" and fears she will be seen wearing glasses by someone she knows. So wearing glasses while in a dark cinema works perfect for her and of course at home in bed is even more safe for her. But she is has to be very comfortable wearing glasses if she even forgot she had them on once when she left the movie house. Also even better that she remembers to get her glasses without any prompting from you. I know she is wearing glasses in part because she knows of your fetish, but being in a dark cinema and both you and her looking forward to watch the movie your barely able to pay much attention to her wearing glasses. I think that even though her vision is perfect she has found that her eyes really like being slightly over corrected. That might also be in part why she likes wearing glasses in bed while watching TV. Watching TV without glasses now isn't as intense as with her glasses. Since she is quite shy about wearing them in public where she might be seen by someone she knows have you ever considered going away either for a weekend or better yet a full weeks vacation and suggesting she wear glasses the whole time your away. The chances of seeing anyone you or her know would be nearly impossible.

Now I am curious as to why you bought her the -2.00 glasses? Did she know you were buying her stronger glasses? Does she want to be able to wear stronger glasses for some reason or is it a part of your fetish for her to be wearing stronger glasses? At any rate she seems intent on trying to get her eyes to adjust to them. She is making progress if she is up about an hour now before her eyes start to give out and lose focus with them. I'm sure her -.75 glasses really feels good when she switches to them.

Eric 23 Aug 2014, 08:32

I know I'm lucky. It's funny, because when we have tickets for the movies, before leaving home I check her drawer, and when I see the glasses are not there, I know that I'm lucky that night. She always put the glasses on when the lights are turned off. She is shy about casually finding someone known and seeing her in glasses. Instantly, when the movie finishes she takes the glasses off. Only once she forgot and she was mad why I hadn't told her. So, I think we are far from becoming a full time wearer.

With the -2 glasses this is the update: yesterday she wore them for about an hour. She hadn't headaches but felt a little dizzy. So after that she switched to the -0.75 glasses and wore them until she went to sleep.

Soundmanpt 22 Aug 2014, 14:40


First of all I think most of the men in here would agree that your a very lucky guy to have a wife that knows about your fetish for seeing her wearing glasses and is completely willing to wear glasses that she has no need for because of her perfect vision. So having her as your glasses wearing wife when you go to the movies or even just in bed watching TV has to make you feel very happy? Her eyes like so many can not only tolerate a small distance prescription like the -.75 glasses she has been wearing for your pleasure, but even with her perfect vision the added minus should provide her just enough over correction that her vision is actually enhanced so that with the glasses she is seeing as if her eyes were HD. So wearing these glasses her eyes should feel completely comfortable and if she wanted she could wear them anytime including driving or even full time if she wished to without doing any harm to her eyes. But switching her to -2.00 glasses is probably a little bit more than her eyes want to accommodate and feel comfortable in. Like she has described to you when she first puts them on her vision is a little bit blurry and after a few minutes her eyes begin to focus with them and she is able to see good with them and like her -.75 glasses her vision is razor sharp and her distance with them couldn't be any better. But sh is really straining her eyes to see with them even if she doesn't realize it. So after about 15 minutes her eyes are working much harder with these glasses they need to with her -.75 glasses. The strain is why she her eyes are aching a bit. Now it could be if she continues to wear the stronger glasses her eyes will start to adjust to them more and her eyes won't ache anymore, or they may cause her to get headaches and that might ruin a beautiful night if you know what I mean?

Because she is 30 there is very little chance her wearing glasses will do anything to change her perfect vision. So if for whatever reason she prefers wearing the stronger glasses she can certainly try wearing them and see how her eyes and head feel. Personally if I were you I would be more happy to let her wear the -.75 glasses that she has no problem with and maybe convince her to wear them full time.

Eric 17 Aug 2014, 19:07

Cactus Jack, thank you for the explanation.

She's not a person who usually reads books. But she stays a lot of time reading from her smartphone and I never heard her complaining about her eyes feeling tired or something.

Cactus Jack 17 Aug 2014, 10:09


A comprehensive eye exam does a lot more than just checking a persons vision. The eyes are windows into the body and often a lurking conditions, such as diabetes and high blood pressure are first detected in an eye exam, before typical symptoms appear.

Please don't misunderstand me. What your wife is experiencing is not really unusual in developing presbyopia. Your wife is almost certainly developing presbyopia, almost everyone does and as I said before it actually starts in childhood. The most basic law of optics is that lens power required to focus at a particular distance is 100 cm or 39.37 inches (IOW 1 meter) divided by focal distance. If the eye have no refractive error (0.00) for distance, it WILL take +2.50 to focus at a typical reading distance of 40 cm or 16 inches. That +2.50 has to come from somewhere. In a younger person with "prefect" vision, it comes from the ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses in the eye without your being aware that it is happening. That is your auto-focus mechanism at work. As you get older, the crystalline lenses become stiff and finally the ciliary muscles just can't squeeze the crystalline lenses enough to be able to produce the extra +2.50. When a person who has "perfect" vision wears -2.00 glasses for distance the ciliary muscles have to supply +2.00 to compensate. If the crystalline lenses are beginning to get stiff, the ciliary muscles have to work extra hard ti focus for distance and even harder to focus close for reading with the -2.00 glasses. Does your wife ever complain that her eyes are "tired" when she reads for a long time, without any glasses?


Eric 17 Aug 2014, 09:41

Cactus Jack, thank you for answering.

She hasn't had an eye exam for some years, only the one to get the drivers license.

Cactus jack 17 Aug 2014, 08:07


Your wife is having the same symptoms with the -2.00 glasses as a person who is farsighted (hyperopic) sometimes does when they are having difficulty focusing to read. Sometimes it indicated that presbyopia is beginning to rear its head.

Both focusing close and compensating for the -2.00 glasses involve the use of the ciliary muscles (her auto=focu mechanism) the ache indicates that se is straining a little to focus. Wearing the -2.00 glasses is not harmful, just uncomfortable. I suggest dropping back to -1.50 or less and see if that helps.

Presbyopia, a stiffening of the crystalline lenses, actually starts in childhood, but does not cause a problem until the late 30s ro early 40s. When presbyopia becomes a problem depends on a persons refractive error (see next paragraph), their genetic makeup, and their visual environment. The idea that presbyopia is never a problem until 40 is a myth. It happens when it happens.

You comment about your wife having "perfect" vision is interesting. Many people who have hyperopia think they have perfect vision because hyperopia is the one vision problem you can correct internally, without external help with glasses or contacts. One clue that a person with "perfect" vision is actually hyperopic is the early onset of near focusing problems. The mild discomfort when wearing the -2.00 glasses for distance is a pretty good clue that presbyopia is right on schedule or your wife is actually a little bit hyperopic. Low hyperopia is extremely difficult to detect with a dilated eye exam.

Has your wife had any type of eye exam in the past 3 or 4 years?


Eric 17 Aug 2014, 05:03

Hi, how are you?

I need your advice. My wife is 30 years old and has perfect vision. She knows about my glasses fetish and likes to play the "myopic girl" when we are at the movies or watching tv at bed. We have some glasses and she likes to wear them on that moments. Usually she wears a -0,75 glasses without having any trouble. I recently bought a new pair with -2 prescription. She says it takes a few seconds to focus when putting those glasses but after that her vision is fine. The thing is that after about 15 minutes of wearing those glasses, her eyes start aching a little bit, not to much, but still a little bit. Is this normal? I don't want her eyes to be damaged. Is it safe to wear those glasses?

Thank you.

Andrew 17 Aug 2014, 03:27

Anyone who cuts hair would need to be wearing glasses in order to be able to see what I have left. I still pay the same amount as anyone with a full head of hair, but in my case, part of the money is a "search fee." The glasses would certainly help with that!

Soundmanpt 16 Aug 2014, 12:45


Where I have been going for the past year or so to get my hair cut, at least what I still have left anyway. The young lady that is cutting my hair doesn't wear glasses, but in a conversation with her she told me that at her most recent eye exam she was told that she will be needing glasses in the near future. Her doctor told her she will be needing glasses to see close and she already farsighted, but because she is still young, mid 20's she is still able to read without any problem. But she did admit that she is starting to notice that if she is doing much reading her eyes do tend to tire out much quicker than they used to. See said she would probably need glasses now if she had a job where she was doing constant close work. This is no doubt the same as your co worker. She also likely indicated that she could have been given a prescription already but because she is still on the young side her eyes are still able to get by without glasses, but if her job involves doing close work then she will likely be getting glasses at her 6 month exam. In fact if she is already complaining about her eyes feeling tired she really should go back and get glasses now.

Andrew 16 Aug 2014, 01:35

It could be that she found a small reading add, such as +0.50, beneficial but it was too little to hurry her into reading glasses at this stage. As the move towards presbyopia is age-related, time would enable him to make such a prediction.

Curious 14 Aug 2014, 10:41

A girl I work with complained out loud late one afternoon that her eyes were tired, so an older woman told her to go get her eyes examined. I am guessing she is mid-30's. She went this morning and just came back. She says the dr told her she will soon need reading glasses and that she should come back in 6 months and likely get a prescription. How did the Dr come to that conclusion? I guess her distance is ok. Just curious!

Soundmanpt 22 Jul 2014, 18:23


You, your friends and family all seem to fall into what seems to be a UK thing for some reason. Only your gf, Gemma, is short sighted. The rest all wear plus glasses. I am really not sure why that would be?

Your own need for glasses you pretty much had a helping hand in. Your first glasses were really only meant to be worn when you were doing an excessive amount of close work to relax your eyes a bit. But wearing them full time was sure to have an effect on your vision. Your first eye exam you had no problem at all seeing the eye chart. But after wearing your glasses full time for more than a year the next eye exam was sure to be more difficult to see the eye chart without your glasses. But not anything you minded since you wanted to wear glasses anyway.

Your friend form college because of trying your glasses found that she also needed glasses and being more shy than you about wearing glasses was more reluctant about wearing them and even got contacts so she could avoid wearing glasses. After a while I assume she just tired of the hassle of fooling with contacts and now was better about just wearing her glasses and be done with it. Your cousin also soon found that she needed plus glasses and she too has now gone to full time. Danielle the friend you made because she had the hots for you after trying your glasses also went and got her own glasses and now her gf is also wearing glasses which she is insisting she doesn't really need. Even wearing wearing them when she goes home to visit her parents. Her reason is because they came to her job and found her wearing glasses there. With her boss being close by she told them that she had recently got them. But if she really doesn't need them why wouldn't she just tell her parents the truth since her boss wouldn't be around her parents house. That sounds much more like someone that needs them but doesn't want let anyone know that she really does need them now. Danielle's glasses probably were just a little too strong for her eyes, but now that she got some on line with a weaker prescription her eyes are probably very comfortable wearing them and she is wearing them even more because she is able to see distances with them very clearly.

Carrie 19 Jul 2014, 09:58

I'm in the uk and as many of you know I am long sighted. I got glasses both because I found I needed them and because I wanted them. Wearing them full time was my choice to start with but with my latent hyperopia "coming out" and needing a stronger prescription I am pretty much dependent on glasses now. I can see without them just much better with them. My eyes get very tired if I don't wear my glasses. When I had my last eye test the optician said if I wasn't already wearing glasses full time they would have recommended I wear them for distances as well as reading. I feel more dependent on my current glasses now than when I got them. Out of my friends that wear glasses more of them have plus prescriptions than minus (most of my friends are very close to my age of 20). One friend at college got reading glasses soon after I first got glasses - she found she could see better with my glasses. She eventually became a full time wearer. Another friend that I first met in a coffee shop also got reading glasses after trying mine on and noticing she could read her phone easier (she only tried them on as way of starting a conversation with me to see if I was single or not). Her now girlfriend is a wannabee glasses wearer. She doesn't need glasses but regularly wears a pair of weak plus glasses bought online. She always wears them at work in the same coffee shop wear I got hit on (I wasn't single but she was and my friend's charms won her over). She sometimes wears them out of work for fun (She has to wear them when she visits her parents as they think she really needs them after making a surprise visit to the coffee shop and seeing her wearing glasses!). My girlfriend is moderately short sighted (Left -3.50 and Right -4.00) and only began wearing her glasses full time when we became a couple and I gave her the confidence to wear her glasses (a weaker prescription then). She thinks she might need new glasses as she said things don't seem quite so clear any more. It's been almost 2 years since her last eye test so she is due for one.

Daffy 18 Jul 2014, 09:32

I have a few theories, some by observation some anecdotal. I believe that most parents these days are more educated regarding vision and get their kids tested earlier and more often to give them the best chance in life and not let vision hinder their abilities. I read a while ago that most kids are naturally longsighted but accommodate well. But if the parents feel concerned they get them glasses. As the children grow the vision will "get better" and not require glasses later on.

The other side of the story is fashion. I have heard many girls wishing they needed glasses just because their friends get them. They go to the optometrist and make a complaint they can't see, or get tired eyes, or get headaches. So the optometrist obliges and gives them a weak rx even if they don't need it. That way everyone is happy.

I also mentioned before that I went along to some optical trade shows and went to some seminars. They train the optometrists to get people into multifocals at every chance they can. Even if they don't need it they are to encourage AF (anti fatigue) lenses - same as multis but weaker with a little prism - just to get them into lenses as contact lenses will not correct this thus more money in their back pocket.

Daffy 18 Jul 2014, 09:32

I have a few theories, some by observation some anecdotal. I believe that most parents these days are more educated regarding vision and get their kids tested earlier and more often to give them the best chance in life and not let vision hinder their abilities. I read a while ago that most kids are naturally longsighted but accommodate well. But if the parents feel concerned they get them glasses. As the children grow the vision will "get better" and not require glasses later on.

The other side of the story is fashion. I have heard many girls wishing they needed glasses just because their friends get them. They go to the optometrist and make a complaint they can't see, or get tired eyes, or get headaches. So the optometrist obliges and gives them a weak rx even if they don't need it. That way everyone is happy.

I also mentioned before that I went along to some optical trade shows and went to some seminars. They train the optometrists to get people into multifocals at every chance they can. Even if they don't need it they are to encourage AF (anti fatigue) lenses - same as multis but weaker with a little prism - just to get them into lenses as contact lenses will not correct this thus more money in their back pocket.

Carlos 18 Jul 2014, 07:27

South Asia---lots of plus lens and early age occurrence of presbyopia. Hyperopia seems to be more prevalent than in other areas.

SC 18 Jul 2014, 05:33

Interesting posts on variations on prevalence of plus lenses in different countries. I have worked in many different countries and I'm always surprised by the differences and can't work out whether it is social acceptance/fashion (eg the Harry Potter effect) or testing rigour and some combination.

In UK, there is more focus on amblyopia detection in infancy and this means more young children wear plus glasses and will either continue to wear or will stop around 10/11 yo and start again later in life - I don't remember any such testing when I was young

In the Balkans glasses are less socially acceptable - generally fewer people wear glasses and almost no-one wears plus glasses. After all plus glasses for the under 30s are mostly optional as they will have in most cases sufficient accommodation to override any hyperopia

With Eastern Europe immigration to UK, there seems to be a lot of Poles, Lithuanians etc in plus glasses so again it is either more acceptable or better testing that causes this - I see more Poles in plus lenses than I would see if I went to Germany or Netherlands.

But the stand-out country for plus lenses is.... France. If you go in a French supermarket then you'll immediately notice that a fair percentage of the glasses wearers are in plus lenses - primarily the 30 somethings. If you go to Disneyland then again you will see lots of French teenagers who are far-sighted - I would guess that one-third of glasses wearing teenagers were perhaps in plus lenses both male & female.

I guess the most likely cause is parental behaviour. You are more likely to get glasses if you go to an optician (obvious) and you are more likely to go to an optician if your parents wear glasses. I got my eyes tested at school but only for distance - nothing that would bring out hyperopia - and I didn't go again until I was 44

Cactus Jack 17 Jul 2014, 22:53

Priam Question,

There are several factors that affect lens thickness at the outside edges and the calculator is pretty good. A couple of things to remember. Base Out prism mass the inside edge thinner and the outside edge thicker. A good estimate I use is 1 mm per prism diopter at the outside edge for CR-39, but that number is very sensitive to two other factors. Lens Width and inside edge thickness. The inside edge needs to be strong enough to not break easily and 1 mm increase in thickness of the inside edge will result in 1 mm increase at the outside edge. Lens width is a more important factor. In a minus lens, the lens is thinnest at the optical center so edge thickness depends on lens power and the distance from the optical center to the edge, usually about half the lens width. Prism has no optical center and the apex or point of the prism will probably exist outside the inside edge of the lens and the base thickness will depend on the full width of the lens.

I have become convinced that making glasses with significant prism is almost a lost art. The big issue I have had is getting the lens maker or dispenser to adjust the PD for the fact that the eyes are not looking straight ahead and the PD needs to be adjusted using Prentice's Rule. If the PD is not correct, it will cause reduced Visual Acuity.


Prism Question 17 Jul 2014, 21:33

I just got 4th prism prescription in 4 years. I got an increase from 5 base out per eye to 10 base out per eye. I am trying to calculate how thick new lenses might be. I found a lens thickness calculator online but it only works for sphere and cylinder prescription.

I was wondering if -10 sphere would be similar in thickness to 10 base out prism or these two would be unrelated? if not what would be the best way to estimate thickness?

Cactus Jack 16 Jul 2014, 21:17


Many Albinos have severe vision problems because of the lack of a substance in the retina called Visual Purple among other things. Visual Purple is necessary for proper functioning of the retina and very likely vision development. I don't know if visual purple is important for eyeball growth, but there are some hormones that are believed to be produced by the retina that regulate eyeball growth through the early 20s.

I have been of the opinion that there were a much larger than usual distribution of hyperopia for many years. Just as Myopia is very common in Asian populations, Hyperopia seems to be common in the population of England. In both instances, it is likely genetic.

There are other genetic conditions that are common in certain populations. People of northern European (Scandinavian) descent are subject to a condition called Dupuytren's Contracture. My ancestors are from England and Ireland and several years ago, I developed Dupuytren's. Turns out the Vikings invaded England around 800 CE and apparently left lots of calling cards in the form of genes.


astigmaphile 16 Jul 2014, 21:12

I am not surprised at the difference. I have seen remarks on here from other British people that hyperopia is common in Britain. I live in Santa Barbara, Ca, and only remember two kids in high school who wore, strong plus glasses. The rest were myopes. Same goes for the current crop of UCSB students.

Apple77 16 Jul 2014, 19:18

Thanks for the interesting replies. Growing up in the northeast USA, I can think of only one person in my high school (out of 400 students) who I remember wearing plus glasses. He was albino, so perhaps his vision was different for other reasons. I'm sure there may have been a few others who had plus glasses, but it seemed like easily 25% of more of students wore minus glasses.

How could it be that diagnosed, glasses-wearing hyperopes are such a minority in the USA (at least in my experience) but, according to Juicebox, are so common in London? Wouldn't it seem like the difference is the rate of diagnosis rather than the actual rate of hyperopia?

Revolver 16 Jul 2014, 13:44

Juicebox's observations are unique and probably very valid. To add one thing, I doubt the numbers of minus wearers have diminished, in fact have probably increased, but the reason they aren't seen very much is that the proliferation and ease of soft contact lenses have made them the dominant force.

Soundmanpt 16 Jul 2014, 09:37

Crystal Veil

My observations here in the US has been much the same as yours in the Netherlands. Most all of the young ladies I come across that are wearing glasses are wearing minus lenses. But in recent years I have noticed an increase in some young ladies now being farsighted and even some that are wearing bifocals. So maybe "Juicebox" is correct that in years past many of the young ladies that were farsighted never bothered getting glasses. But now with glasses being trendy and much more acceptable they are far more willing to get and wear wear glasses. Also I think the need for being able to see so much small print on I-Phones and the such have made glasses more necessary for many as well. You rarely ever see a young lady without an I-Phone in her hand, so if she is on it that much and has any problem seeing it she will likely keep her glasses on so she isn't putting them on and off so much.

Crystal Veil 16 Jul 2014, 06:10

Apple77, Juicebox,

interesting observation. Over the years, I noticed that there are more young people with long sight in the UK and Ireland than on the continent. In the Netherlands, well over 90% of young ladies in glasses have minus prescriptions. It's difficult to find longsighted models for photo shoots. Perhaps I should make a trip to London and try my chances there.

juicebox 16 Jul 2014, 04:45


I've noticed it too. I'm from London and I see a lot more farsighted people than nearsighted. Only recently though, during my childhood I can only really remember those that needed them for the board, but I guess a lot of people who probably wouldn't have discovered they're farsighted are now doing so due to smartphones etc. Not a bad thing I guess as it means people are being more sensible about getting their eyes checked! Or adhering to advice as a few friends at school were told they were farsighted but refused to get/wear glasses. Though the hipster style glasses are well and truly part of our culture now for both fashion and function, I hardly ever see anyone with significant minus lenses. From my friends' experience I think there is still some insecurity there as they've had glasses most of their life and glasses were still dreaded when I was at school. Whereas my friends who are farsighted only found out at uni by which time glasses were a massive fashion item so they proudly wore them from day one.

Another interesting thing is the number of girls who wear fake glasses at the groups I volunteer with (ages 7-13). So many of them have, on occasion, worn them and the others don't bat an eyelid unless the girl tries to pass them off as real. There's only been one girl who has got glasses while I've been there (a few already had them) and the girls didn't make a fuss apart from to say that she looked really pretty. That would have never happened when I was at school! There would have been a big fuss with everyone wanting to try them on and then holding up various amounts of fingers about 2 feet away to see how bad their eyes were. I'm really happy for this generation as it seems a lot of the stigma associated with glasses has gone away and they are no longer only associated with freaks and geeks, but now with fashion.

Can't speak for the rest of England but that's just what I have observed!

Apple77 15 Jul 2014, 19:51

I'm currently visiting in London, and it seems as if everywhere I turn, I see hype ropes wearing significant plus lenses (especially kids but not exclusively so). I feel as though I rarely see plus lenses in my hometown in the northeastern USA.

Granted, I haven't exactly been keeping any kind of count, and my sample probably isn't representative, so my observations may be a fluke. Has anyone else noticed this and, if so, why might it be? Are various eye conditions diagnosed at different rates in different countries?

Maurice 14 Jul 2014, 20:44

Bob, bifocals are your future. Give it a year or two.

Cactus Jack 14 Jul 2014, 13:26


You might be able to delay the onset of Presbyopia a little, but not by very much.

There are two factors in the progression of Presbyopia. The most notable one is the gradual stiffening of the Crystalline Lenses and there is nothing you can do about that. It WILL happen.

The more subtile, but surprisingly most significant factor will be loss of conditioning in your Ciliary Muscles. The tiny Ciliary Muscles that focus your Crystalline Lenses are the strongest muscles in the body for their size, but wearing the reading glasses, reduced their workload. When your Crystalline Lenses get stiff, it takes a lot of work and energy to focus them. Like any labor saving device, glasses to help with the work to focus to read are very easy to get used to. You can try to exercise your Ciliary Muscles to keep them strong, but it won't do a lot of good in the long run. It is an exercise in futility.

Again, what you are experiencing is normal and millions, if not billions of people experience the same thing as they grow older.

You can fight against the inevitable, but frankly the best solution is to just to do what you have to do, to see comfortably and get on with your life.


Bobby 14 Jul 2014, 06:17

I don't know if or when I might need glasses for distance, but I find that if I wear these readers for a while, I can't do without for close vision. This morning I put them on do do some work on the computer, and even forgot I was wearing them. Took them off when I took a break after more than an hour, and just couldn't focus close. Don't know if I should trying wearing them less to avoid becoming totally dependent so soon, or just less them relax away and lose my close focus. Even typing this, if I lift the glasses I can't read the laptop screen. Certainly I could if I hadn't put them on before I started.

Carlos 10 Jul 2014, 20:49

Hi Bobby, my experience with reading glasses was short-lived. Wore +1.50 readers for about 3 years. Went back to eye doc when I began to have trouble seeing up close again. With that exam, ended up wearing progressives with a +2.00 reading add. After that, it was just easier to wear the glasses full-time.

Cactus Jack 10 Jul 2014, 08:27


Thank you for the information. If you had occasional double vision problems while reading, before you started the Pencil Push-ups and you have not had any double vision problems, lately, it sounds like you have had some improvement.

Sorry to keep asking questions, but I am trying to understand your situation better.

1. May I ask what prompted you to see an Eye Care Professional (ECP)"

2. Did you wear glasses before you got your current prescription?

3. May I ask your occupation?

4. If you are a student, my I ask what you are studying?

5. Do you have any problems reading the small text on a smartphone?

Also, if you would prefer to discuss any of this privately my email address is:


Mark 10 Jul 2014, 04:08

I don't experience double vision whilst reading, before i started the exercises i did sometimes struggled to keep single vision at a close distance. I have not had that since.

I've never experienced double vision at a distance and don't have prisms in my glasses.

The pencil push ups are 2 times daily for 10 minutes, keeping the pencil as close to my eyes while being single for 10 seconds, then a 10 second rest.

The distance of fusion point from my nose is about 4cm right now.

Cactus Jack 09 Jul 2014, 21:18


Could you describe the "Pencil Push Up" and the distances involved when you can not keep the images fused?


Cactus Jack 09 Jul 2014, 21:15


Are you having trouble with double vision when you read?

How about distance?

Do you have any prism in your glasses?

May I ask where you live?


Mark 09 Jul 2014, 15:27

Presently, I wear -0,25 left and 0,25 in the right glass.

My age is 21 years old.

cactus Jack 09 Jul 2014, 15:02


Do you presently wear glasses? May I ask your age and prescription?


Mark 09 Jul 2014, 14:06

I've been diagnosed with convergence insuffiency, ive been told to do pencil push ups each day. I have been doing these exercises for 2,5 months without much relief of my symptoms. I'm at a loss what to do now

Cactus Jack 09 Jul 2014, 12:18


The link to Macrae's story did not post correctly.


Cactus Jack 09 Jul 2014, 12:16


What you are experiencing is normal when you first start experiencing the effects of presbyopia. Presbyopia is going to happen and there is nothing you can do about it. On the bright side, it is likely that you (or anyone else) will ever need more than about a +3.00, except in very rare instances where you need to focus really close.

FYI, the amount of PLUS it takes to focus close depends strictly on the focus distance as figured out by Sir Isaac Newton about 300 years ago. The formula is: Lens Power = 1 meter / Focus Distance. The formula works with any measurement system as long as the numbers are in the same units. 1 meter = 100 cm, 1000 mm, or 39.37 inches.

I think you might like reading a series of very well written posts, that one of our members. Macrae wrote about his experiences when he discovered that he really needed glasses after years of thinking he had "perfect" vision. His situation was slightly different than yours, but it is a good read.

Another of our members, Julian, has collected the posts into a "saga" and you can find it here.http:



Bobby 08 Jul 2014, 06:58

So I have been using the reading glasses with an interesting effect. I really don't need them, unless the print is very small. I can easily pick up a newspaper, magazine, letter etc, and there is not much of a difference with or without them. But if I wear them for a while, and take them off, it is much harder to focus close...some of the smaller print I could easily read at first without the glasses, becomes fuzzy. Feels like the more I wear them the more I need them. Should I just hold them in reserve for print too small to read unaided or use them even if I can read without them?

So far, I have just been using them in the house, I haven't been brave enough to use them out, although I have taken them with me. So far only my wife and sec. have seen me wearing them. Sec says she got her readers when she was 43, wore them often and soon needed them for all reading. Two years later got for distance, and now says she is blind without the glasses...not a place I want to rush to.

What to do?

Cactus Jack 07 Jul 2014, 11:02


It is very likely that your distance vision will clear up, but it will not happen suddenly. The key is to wear your glasses whenever you are awake. The more you wear them the faster your distance vision will clear up, but it could take several weeks. You developed some Latent Hyperopia over years so your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses will not relax over night.

I wold ask you to do two things.

1. Decide on a different nickname so we can recognize you more easily. There are many "guest" members and it is easy to get confused as to which "guest" is posting. Even with a unique Nickname, it is hard to remember every prescription so please be patient with us when you post.

2. Please keep up informed. We are happy to have you join in as ask questions about your vision, Welcome.


guest 07 Jul 2014, 07:40

Following on from my previous post and in reply to CJ .

I have had my glasses for a couple of days and worn them full time .

The thing I notice is that my eyes seem more relaxed and they tend not to get as tired late in the day .

Distance vision is slightly blurred compared to without . I was wondering if this will clear as I wear more or is this a compromise I will have to live with.

SC 07 Jul 2014, 07:05


As CJ says the need for glasses for reading is age-related and caused by a gradual degradation. If you are also hyperopic (far-sighted) then you will ultimately need glasses for distance too (not the same as the prescription for reading).

Whilst not always accurate, the best indicator of this need is the age at which you first "needed" glasses for reading - not the same as when you got them! Typically people who get to 45 will not need distance correction, people who really need help with reading at 42 will almost certainly need them for distance some time later.

So have you been struggling for some time? Ask your assistant when she got glasses for reading to see if the theory pans out.

Cactus Jack 06 Jul 2014, 16:49


Ah yes, Shrinking Arms Syndrome, more accurately know as the onset of Presbyopia. It happens to almost everyone at about your age.

Here is the bad news. Unless you can stretch your arms, you are already dependent on having some close focusing help. The good news is, If you have reasonably good distance vision (apparently the eye doc thought you did), you MAY never really need glasses for distance. However, you may need bifocals, trifocals, or progressives for comfort and convenience. Maybe I can explain, briefly, what has happened.

The eyes work like a very sophisticated digital camera. You have a built in auto-focus mechanism with two parts; the crystalline lenses and the ciliary muscles which are controlled by your brain. The crystalline lenses are pretty strong PLUS when relaxed for distance, but the ciliary muscles can squeeze the crystalline lenses and increase their PLUS power to allow you to focus close.

When you were born, your crystalline lenses had the consistency of gelatin dessert and your had incredible focusing range, called "accommodation". As you grew older your crystalline lenses gradually became stiffer and harder to squeeze, but you did not notice this occurring until recently, when your crystalline lenses became so stiff that you started having trouble focusing close.

If you have good distance vision, the amount of PLUS your crystalline lenses need to supply is a strict mathematical function discovered by Sir Isaac Newton, of gravity fame, about 300 years ago. That relationship is pretty easy to deal with. It is: Lens Power = 1 meter / Focal Distance. The 1 meter can be expressed as 100 cm, 1000 mm or 39.37 inches depending the measurement system you like to use. To give you an example. if you want to focus at 40 cm or 16 inches, typical reading distance, you will need a +2.50 lens. In your case, you can still easily supply +1.25 of that +2.50 internally, with your ciliary muscles and crystalline lenses, but you need the additional +1.25 to be supplied externally with glasses. To focus at say 80 cm or 32 inches, you need +1.25 which you can probably still supply without help or you can use the +1.25 glasses to do the work for you.

As you get older, that will change and you will need more external help, probably sooner than you would wish. Just don't be frustrated, there is nothing much you can do about it except get readers with more power. One bright spot in all this, unless you need or like to focus VERY close, you will never need more that about +3.00 in your reading glasses.

The downside of increasing power in your reading glasses is that as they get stronger, distant things will get blurrier and you may get tired of chasing down missing reading glasses or having to take them off the see things in the distance. Bifocals, Trifocals, or progressives with 0.00 (or close to it) in the top part for distance and what ever focusing prescription you need in the reading or intermediate segments. There are other solutions, but hat is enough for now.

Just don't let yourself be worried about what others think. Glasses are just vision tools, like hammers are tools to help you drive nails without hurting your hands. If you have some vanity problems, please let us know. We can probably help.


Bobby 06 Jul 2014, 15:10

My assistant saw me struggling to read a box with small print (I had to hold it arms length to read it) and offered me her glasses. They were amazing. Made everything close clear and dark but distance was a blur. She referred me to her eye doc, and I went in. Short story is he prescribed glasses for reading, which is normal for my age (44). They are for +1.25 each eye. I showed them to my assistant, who said they help her but not enough as her eyeglasses are stronger. She says I should enjoy easier reading and better close vision, but says that I will soon be "hooked" on them and like her I will NEED them to read anything. Within two years of her getting her glasses she needed them for distance too.

Two questions:

Any way to know if or when I will become dependent on these glasses? Will it happen with this prescription or a subsequent prescription (I think she said hers were +2.00)

Any way to know if/when I will need bifocals to help with distance too? This is a new is ok, but a nuisance to have the distance blur.


Puffin 05 Jul 2014, 14:35

I remember during the 80's, a certain librarian at the local city library, big black round frames - weak RX. But none of the rest seemed to wear any. Although, more recently there was my favourite bookshop, where most of the women staff wore glasses.

Teachers - I would not say many of them wore glasses, but there were a couple of interesting ones. Again, mid-80's: I haven't been at school for a while.

As for Secretaries, I haven't worked in a situation where they have been noticeable. But there's still time.

Melyssa 05 Jul 2014, 13:17

That's an interesting group, Carrie. From personal experience I can recall the following:

Librarian: The one at the all-girls college where I earned my A.S. degree wore black drop-temples before switching to contacts in my second year there.

Secretary: About 20 years ago, a young woman wore midsized pink frames, and she had them for such a long time that the name of the frame and the company had faded from it entirely. Currently, a senior citizen secretary has huge brown frames in a plus RX that probably cancels out my RX.

Teachers: I dealt with 17 women and 28 men who wore glasses.

Carrie 05 Jul 2014, 10:05

We've all seen the stereotype images in films and tv shows (and maybe in porn movies)and I was just wondering if schoolteachers, librarians and secretaries are more likely to need glasses than someone in another job?

HighMyopic 27 Jun 2014, 16:16

I have been enjoying wearing my -29 diopter glasses that I got yesterday in the mail.

guest 27 Jun 2014, 03:38

Thanks CJ

I will keep you informed next week

Cactus Jack 26 Jun 2014, 12:34


There is no way to tell if your distance vision will change much after you start wearing glasses. The reason younger people, in particular, experience changes in their distance vision when they start wearing + glasses is called Latent Hyperopia.

What that means is that some people who need + glasses have some of their farsightedness (hyperopia) hidden (latent) and it can take weeks or months for their Latent Hyperopia to be revealed. The reason for this, is that a person with hyperopia can use some or all of their accommodation to correct their hyperopia. Sometimes the person with hyperopia is not even aware that they need vision correction.

All that said, it is likely that it will take you a few weeks to get used to wearing glasses, but it is unlikely that you will need very much change at your age.

Please keep us informed and feel free to ask any other questions you may have.


guest 26 Jun 2014, 09:57

I am 61 and have been prescribed my first distance glasses

as follows R +0.75 L +1.00 -0.25 x 72 add +2

They are due in about a week.

I was wondering what to expect.

At my age I guess I have little or no accommodation left.

The question I need to ask is will I need time for my eyes to adjust for distance vision.

I read here many times that younger hyperopes should wear them full time up to 2 weeks before the distance vision becomes clear.

My doc did not mention anything about an adjustment period.

He said he had corrected me to 20/20 or better.

Any advice appriciated

HighMyopic 24 Jun 2014, 23:13

Does biconcave lenses make the glasses have more cut-in if they have a strong strength?

John S 18 Jun 2014, 20:31


(from the Actors thread)

Please understand it was not my intention to come off hard on you. I am not a doctor either. But I have always been a person that had to know why and how things worked. I have to be exact.

At first I only knew what lenses solved my vision problems. When I started wearing my Dad's reading glasses, I knew a little power made distance clear. But it took more power to make close things clear. Basically, the stronger the plus lens, the closer it focused. I had to know why the other kids could just put their glasses on and see at all distances, but I couldn't. It didn't take long for me to put 2+2 together to realize my automatic focus mechanism didn't work properly. 99% of people would just take the rx, get glasses and that was it. If I would have done that, I would not have gotten the reading rx that I needed. It was my nature to investigate, not take something for granted. I knew the doctor was wrong, so I went to another and got the rx I needed with no problem.

Optics are not that complicated. You want the image to focus on the retina, not behind it, or in front of it. If it is only a refractive error, and there is no accommodation problem, the fix is usually the correct power lens to see clearly at a distance of 20 feet. The accommodation muscles usually take care of the power increase needed to see closer than 20 feet.

I was different, my accommodation muscles were hosed up. That is a better term than the four letter word I would like to use. Most kids that have accommodation problems have symptoms in their single digits. I didn't know until I was about 13. A Pediatric Optometrist sees children on a daily basis that have accommodation problems like I did. The first doctor I went to didn't understand anything other than the hardening of the lens could or would cause close vision problems. He could have referred me to a specialist. Instead, he didn't understand it, so he did not treat it. A heck of a way to practice...

There are many other factors that can cause vision problems other than refractive errors, that is where things can become very complicated.

Cactus Jack 17 Jun 2014, 02:30


We can help with the technical details. It isn't hard. After you order your first pair, you will know what to do.


Bob 17 Jun 2014, 02:02

Thank you for your opinion, CJ, and the link to macrae's collection (@Julian). I am currently thinking about how to proceed further with ordering online.


Cactus Jack 17 Jun 2014, 01:05


Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten it was there. Sometimes I think I am developing Halfzheimer's, probably on the way to Alzheimer's. Maybe Bob will see your post and look it up if he is interested.


julian 16 Jun 2014, 21:01

Hey Cactus, don't forget the Macrae saga is easy to read on Vision-and-Spex:

Cactus Jack 16 Jun 2014, 19:29


No, I said it could change its plus power, but I DID NOT say how or what the result would be. I don't think there is any way to predict that. Most likely it could change the curvature in some way as the cornea dries out and that could cause some astigmatism or distorted images.


Dude 16 Jun 2014, 12:49

So, dry eye causes myopia?

P.D : I've already made an appointment with my ophthalmologist

Cactus Jack 15 Jun 2014, 21:31


Dry Eye causes severe irritation because the cornea needs moisture and lubrication from tears. The cornea has no blood supply so it has to get oxygen mostly from the air and a little more from tears. If the cornea does not get enough moisture, that change its very powerful plus power and its shape which will affect your perfect vision

The reason it hurts is that the cornea has lots of very sensitive nerves that cause you eyelids to close to protect the eye from foreign substances or objects.

You need to do something about dry eye NOW, before your cornea gets permanently damaged.


Cactus Jack 15 Jun 2014, 21:14


My non-ECP opinion is that presbyopia is creeping up on you sooner than is typical and the extra effort you are having to expend to focus close is triggering an over convergence response. I think your ECP is trying to isolate and resolve some latent hyperopia, if you have any. A complicating factor is that this is making your life miserable because your studies require you to do a lot of reading, Now, not sometime in the future.

Your ECP is trying to do you a favor. Latent Hyperopia can be VERY hard to diagnose and very hard to quantify. You may not actually have any. You may just have hyperopia, early onset of presbyopia, and a very strong interconnection in your brain between your focus control system and your eye positioning system.

The diagnosis and resolution of Latent Hyperopia can take much longer than most people expect and IF Latent Hyperopia is being resolved, you will probably need new glasses every few months until your vision stabilizes. Depending on the policy of your ECP and/or your glasses vendor. It can cost them some money or you some money. If the vendor's policy is no charge changes to your prescription, if needed, for a year. Any changes your ECP prescribes will cost little or nothing, If you have to pay for prescription changes in your glasses. You may need to think hard about ordering glasses from an on line retailer. You can save a bundle and most online retailers supply very high quality glasses at very reasonable prices. Several of us have had excellent experiences with Zenni Optical and you might want to check them out. If you want to order glasses on line, we can help you until you learn how. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Based on your experience with the +1 glasses, I think you need to face the fact that you really need to do something. Admittedly, you can't run around in public wearing two pairs of glasses, but flip-up, clip-ons are a possibility. As are bifocals or progressives if vanity is NOT a factor. Vanity can be as powerful as a fundamental force of nature. If vanity is a factor, we might be able to help with that also, if you tell us. Vanity is a BIG issue with women, and a surprisingly big issue with men also. If vanity is a factor, you might find humor and consolation is a collection of posts by one of our members named Macrae as he courageously dealt with the fact that "his better-than-perfect-vision" was not quite as good as he believed and had led his siblings to believe. The posts can be found by a manual search of the archives or Julian has kindly expended the effort to collect and edit them into an 84KB Word file. The file is too big to post here, but it is available to send. If you would like to read it, let me know where to send it privately at


Dude 15 Jun 2014, 20:53

Do people with dry eye squint a lot, and have eyestrains, even when they have perfect eyesight?

Andrew 15 Jun 2014, 11:50


Your distance Rx has increased by 0.75 diopters in both eyes, so yes, your glasses will probably be a bit thicker, depending on the refractive index of the lenses you chose and the size of the frames. If you did not have flat fronts on your lenses before, you may well do so now.

Your reading prescription is 0.75 diopters weaker than what you are currently wearing. They may end up thicker than your varifocals, simply because they tend to use normal index lenses, or they may not.

Either way, the new glasses may take a bit of getting used to, but you'll be able to enjoy clear vision again.

Bob 15 Jun 2014, 10:49


I tried to decondition from use of the add. for some days and did your second test, pushing a readable sheet towards the limit of readability with +1 correction. It still lies around 60 cm (64 max.). I could imagine that longer wear would allow me to extend that distance somewhat. However, currently want to abstain from using the add. over extended periods as I cannot really use that in public. I am bit surprised that after only two days of using the additional plus and further two days of not using them, my eyes still feel very strained even after very short periods of reading or doing close work. I had thought that everything should pretty much go back to normal (apart from the normal symptoms) after a night. I hope that will be the case soon, and despite the temptation of relief. However, my distance still remains overcorrected.

I likewise redid the near point observation as mentioned in my previous post. I previously reached 18.5cm on one occasion. But doing it again I realized that I had not done it binocularly, which invalidates the previous result. When going below 20ish cm I lose fusion and one eye drifts in. The current binocular nearpoint is around 21cm.

Another measure: My normal reading distance generally lies between 45-50cm.

I am not yet sure what to make out of the test results, given that I have already more plus than necessary. Would you have any ideas regarding this?


Cactus Jack 14 Jun 2014, 17:01


You actually need weaker glasses for reading and close focusing. The +1.50 add reduces your distance prescription my that amount.


Zoe 14 Jun 2014, 15:56